Proof of the Trinity. No takers?

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justbyfaith

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For me, "substance" doesn't come into play because... frankly I just don't find it in the Bible.
Unity comes into play because it's all over the Bible-- God constantly commanding peoples to be one. It's especially highlighted during the Intercessory Prayer, when Christ prays that His follows be one, even as He and the Father are one (see John 17).
So you are saying that you think they are one in purpose but not the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God?
 
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Jane_Doe22

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So you are saying that you think they are one in purpose but not the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God?
ONE God, three different persons, one via unity.
--vs--
ONE God, three different persons, one via a shared substance (the Athanasian Creed view).
 

justbyfaith

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I strongly disagree with you. Romans 8 says, If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. When we were born again, this was spiritual, not physical. And it's the blood of Christ by faith through the eternal Spirit (Hebrews 9) that purges sins, not the baptismal tank.
That is simply an argument, that is refuted by 1 Peter 3:20-21. My understanding is that Jesus applies the blood when we go under the water in His name (confessing Him before men). Going forward in church or in a Crusade is too anonymous impaho, unless you just begin to serve the Lord from there on in and end up confessing Him that way by publicly proclaiming His message.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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What kind of unity? How are they unified? I need you to describe more clearly what you are saying.
The Father's love is the exact same love the Son has.
To follow the Spirit is to follow the Son (cause they're going to tell you the exact same thing).
The Father's will is the exact same will the Son has.
To honor the Son is to simultaneously honor the Spirit and the Father.
The mercy of the Son is the exact mercy that the Father has.
The justice that the Father has is the exact justice the Son has.
Etc.

Three different persons, but the same perfect & unified will, character, etc. They are ONE-- 100% unified in all those things.
 

Enoch111

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Hi @Enoch111,

Which member of the Trinity is not the Lord? The Father or the Son?
The term "Lord" is rightly applied to the Father, as well as the Son, as well as the Holy Spirit, since God (the triune Godhead) is also Lord.

But after the resurrection of Christ, Jesus is called "the LORD Jesus Christ" since God the Father has made Him both Lord and Christ, in view of the resurrection.

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God [the Father] hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

But this in no way detracts from the fact that the Father is the Lord God Almighty, and the Holy Spirit is also Lord.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. (2 Cor 3:17)
 

Zachary

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Jesus was the express image of God's substance (hypostasis)
It doesn't matter about substance (hypostasis) ...
because it's all about ...
Jesus representing Father God on earth
(if you've seen Me, you've seen Him)
until He left and "another" took His place,
who was the precious Holy Spirit.

"another" (Gr: allos) means "another of the same kind".
Just like Jesus was another of the same kind as the Father.
 
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Dave L

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It doesn't matter about substance (hypostasis) ...
because it's all about ...
Jesus representing Father God on earth
(if you've seen Me, you've seen Him)
until He left and "another" took His place,
who was the precious Holy Spirit.

"another" (Gr: allos) means "another of the same kind".
Just like Jesus was another of the same kind as the Father.
So what's wrong with learning something new about Jesus from Scripture?
 

Taken

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The foundation of your understanding needs to be that the Father is God (James 3:9, Romans 15:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6). And that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

My Understanding needs to BE in Agreement with Gods Understanding.

You have quoted nothing I have rejected, which BTW I have already claimed to Believe.....

Thus, your challenging Point has no valid merit to be addressed.

Therefore what is the logical conclusion when you look at Hebrews 1:8-9?

Isaiah 9:6 says to me clearly that the Father becomes the Son out of eternity.

LOGICAL "conclusion" ?

Where is there ROOM IN Scripture for LOGICAL "conclusions" ?

The CARNAL MIND, is that which weighs between this knowledge and that knowledge to DECIDE "logically", what to Believe.

The Word of God, is TRUTH. No "weighing" between this knowledge and that knowledge to DECIDE "logically", to Believe it or Not.

One either HEARTFULLY Believes it or one Does NOT.

The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, IS GOD.
God does not Change. Men change, their knowledge changes. Hopefully their knowledge Increases, their wisdom and understanding Increases. Men wait to SEE the knowledge and understanding revealed. Men wait to SEE God as His has always been.

God Bless,
Taken
 
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justbyfaith

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Only God can do that. The pharisees didn't perceive the tri-une nature of God either.
How is it that you don't think I was declaring the Triune nature of God? I thought I made it clear that the post was proof of the Trinity.
 
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justbyfaith

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The term "Lord" is rightly applied to the Father, as well as the Son, as well as the Holy Spirit, since God (the triune Godhead) is also Lord.

But after the resurrection of Christ, Jesus is called "the LORD Jesus Christ" since God the Father has made Him both Lord and Christ, in view of the resurrection.

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God [the Father] hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

But this in no way detracts from the fact that the Father is the Lord God Almighty, and the Holy Spirit is also Lord.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. (2 Cor 3:17)
There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

I count three from your perspective. Now I like the equation 1 x 1 x 1 = 1. But 1 + 1 +1 = 1 simply does not fly with me.

Really though, I think it is more like the equation 1 = 1 = 1.

Or, a = 1, b = 1, c = 1, therefore a = b = c = 1.
 

justbyfaith

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The Father's love is the exact same love the Son has.
To follow the Spirit is to follow the Son (cause they're going to tell you the exact same thing).
The Father's will is the exact same will the Son has.
To honor the Son is to simultaneously honor the Spirit and the Father.
The mercy of the Son is the exact mercy that the Father has.
The justice that the Father has is the exact justice the Son has.
Etc.

Three different persons, but the same perfect & unified will, character, etc. They are ONE-- 100% unified in all those things.
So you're saying they are one in purpose and are all three exactly alike. Unfortunately, what you have there is not the Trinity but Tritheism.
 

Jane_Doe22

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So you're saying they are one in purpose and are all three exactly alike. Unfortunately, what you have there is not the Trinity but Tritheism.
Tritheism would be if you could pick one of three Gods or something like that-- which I don't believe that at all. It's literally impossible to honor the Father without honoring the Son, etc. They are ONE.
 
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justbyfaith

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LOGICAL "conclusion" ?

Where is there ROOM IN Scripture for LOGICAL "conclusions" ?

See Isaiah 1:18.

Tritheism would be if you could pick one of three Gods or something like that-- which I don't believe that at all. It's literally impossible to honor the Father without honoring the Son, etc. They are ONE.

Tritheism is believing in three Gods; it can be your theology even if you don't pick one out of the three. If you worship all three then you still have three Gods. The true Trinity has the reality in it that there is one God. And He is the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Tritheism is believing in three Gods; it can be your theology even if you don't pick one out of the three. If you worship all three then you still have three Gods. The true Trinity has the reality in it that there is one God. And He is the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God.
I said ONE God. Three persons, ONE God.
 
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justbyfaith

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In order for the Trinity to be a reality, God would have to be One Person and yet also Three. Because we have a Personal God and therefore our one God is a Person. God is a Spirit (John 4:24). And there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

To me it is very simple; but I don't think you are ready for the truth so I will refrain right now from continuing; except to say that the hypostatic union is a key doctrine for you to understand.
 

Jane_Doe22

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In order for the Trinity to be a reality, God would have to be One Person and yet also Three. Because we have a Personal God and therefore our one God is a Person. God is a Spirit (John 4:24). And there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

To me it is very simple; but I don't think you are ready for the truth so I will refrain right now from continuing; except to say that the hypostatic union is a key doctrine for you to understand.
I respect your belief there.

But for me, I cannot in good conscious ratify the Athanasian Creed because it oversteps the Bible in it's specification that 3 are 1 through substance. After years of reading, studying, and prayer I simply don't find that in scripture or confirmed through prayer. Three in one, yes I'm totally there for that. But not for "substance".

It's not for a lack of studying that belief-- I study many beliefs, including those I accept and those I don't, and I'm going to respect all of them. But for myself, I cannot ethically embrace something I don't find in scripture or confirm by God.
 
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