Proof of the Trinity. No takers?

[101G]

I know I need to stop sitting on the fence. I denied the Trinity once; maybe it is best if I just cross over into new territory and agree with diversified Oneness wholeheartedly.

always know what you're getting into or believing.... FIRTS, learn and UNDERSTAND what you're embracing. the Lord Jesus said, "LEARN of ME".

The way I see it the Persons in the Godhead are distinct from each other: the Father is not the Son, but the Son is the Father (Isaiah 9:6). And His name, rather, the name of His Spirit, once released back to the Father, will be called "Wonderful Counsellor". (also Isaiah 9:6).

there is no "Father" person that is separate from a "son" person. this is the hardest thing to overcom. TITLES are NOT "PERSONS".

now stop and think, Isaiah 9:6, take the name or title "Counsellor". it means a lawyer, or mediator, or an intersessor.
1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

now look up the word "advocate", it means, an intercessor, a comforter. who is the the "COMFORTER". do not the Holy Spirit an "intercessor" for us?

now knowing this, let's go to
John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

one cannot get any plainer than that.

ps justbyfaith, study "diversified Oneness" pm me if you want to know more about it.

be blessed.

 

[farouk]

farouk said: ↑
Biblically it's Three Persons in One God, and One God in Three Persons.

Three person in one God?, that's the trinity doctrine. and and One God in Three Persons" both are polytheistic in nature.

definition of PERSON: a human being regarded as an individual.

if you have three person in ONE God then you have three individual Gods, especially if that are co-equal. for there is ONE Soul for each PERSON and God says he have "A", "A", "A" soul.

so if one have 3 person then each person much have a soul, but God said,
Isaiah 42:1 "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.


God as a whole didn't say our souls, or my souls.

so the three person any way you put is want fly.

Nope.

 

[amadeus]

But you cannot reject truth and accept Christ who is truth personified.

To reject the truth means a person was not interested in finding it although the means to it was apparent or he had found it then decided to reject it. I find myself in neither situation.

 

[amadeus]

A false doctrine about Christ = a false Christ.

You've sidestepped the difference between faith and knowledge. Knowledge is not required. Faith is and remember what Jesus said to Thomas?

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6

 

[mjrhealth]

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

[101G]

Nope.

First thanks for the reply,
second, denial is not an answer, nor sticking your head in the sand want help either.

nor will the TRUTH change, or go away.

the only why is to face your fears.

every trinitarian had those nagging question of "I don't know". scripture that canno be explain by the doctrine that you believe in.

as my motto states, "where there is knowledge, stay not ignorant"

but know one thing, "You have been told the truth"........ (smile).

be blessed in the Lord.

 

[Dave L]

You've sidestepped the difference between faith and knowledge. Knowledge is not required. Faith is and remember what Jesus said to Thomas?

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6

Biblical Faith comes only from God's written word, either read or preached. It comes from knowing what the word says and trusting that it is true. Unless a person is born again, they cannot understand the word in any true sense. Sight faith is rooted in the flesh and depends on external stimuli. Sight faith cannot save.

 

[Dave L]

To reject the truth means a person was not interested in finding it although the means to it was apparent or he had found it then decided to reject it. I find myself in neither situation.

Faith comes only by God's written word. If you do not know what it says, your faith is merely the same faith people have when they buy products thinking the advertisements might be true. It is a belief anchored in the flesh.

 

[farouk]

Biblical Faith comes only from God's written word, either read or preached. It comes from knowing what the word says and trusting that it is true. Unless a person is born again, they cannot understand the word in any true sense. Sight faith is rooted in the flesh and depends on external stimuli. Sight faith cannot save.

We have been given revealed truth, and people are not saved through believing what hasn't been revealed...

 

[Dave L]

@dave,

ok, good, let's examine this. Paul, then Saul was on the Road to Damascus and encounter Jesus.

my question is this. "Who chose Paul, then Saul as his minister?"

please don't use the gernic term "God", but was it the Father or the one whom you calls Jesus the Christ, the Son.

so to be clear, who chose Paul, then saul on the road to Damascus

please answer.

Keep in mind, Jesus is YAHWEH in the OT. And in Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily. So it was the triune God using his personal name when answering Paul. The same way with baptism. The name (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ, the name we baptize in.

 

[justbyfaith]

Keep in mind, Jesus is YAHWEH in the OT. And in Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily. So it was the triune God using his personal name when answering Paul. The same way with baptism. The name (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ, the name we baptize in.

I think you need to apologize to me for accusing me of not believing in the Trinity...

I believe that the Father inhabits eternity, but that the Son walked the earth. Nevertheless the Son is the Father (although the Father is not the Son) because the Father became/becomes/will become the Son (for lack of better terminology) according to Ephesians 3:11.

Show me how this is not biblical (if it isn't) instead of making blanket statements that you think that I am denying the Trinity with my statements. I am not doing so. I am actually trying to help people understand the Trinity better. There is scriptural support for every statement that I have made concerning the subject; and looking at the scripture reference will help you to understand what I have been saying better if you go back and look at everything again.

You don't want to talk by PM anymore because I began to take on your personal tone in the context of the PM (because I felt more liberty to do so because the conversation is private). I began to take on your tone so that you might not be wise in your own eyes (but of course I became like you in doing so).

You have a condemning attitude, and the Lord said that this is not His will for any of us (Luke 6:37). Of course, if anyone's tongue rises up against a true servant of the LORD in judgment, it is his heritage to condemn that tongue (Isaiah 54:17).

 

[justbyfaith]

@Dave L,

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6).

Do you confess that Jesus is the Lord in light of Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21?

If not, then you do not have the Holy Ghost of scripture, and are therefore not saved/born again (1 Corinthians 12:3).

 

[101G]

Keep in mind, Jesus is YAHWEH in the OT. And in Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily. So it was the triune God using his personal name when answering Paul. The same way with baptism. The name (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ, the name we baptize in.

GINOLJC, to all.
first, thanks for the reply. second, you admit that JESUS is the LORD/God of the OT, all caps of LORD. well did you not say in post #8,

Jesus was the express image of God's substance (hypostasis)

if Jesus is the express Image "of" God's "SUBSTANCE" then is he the same and "ONE" person in substance?, is the "IMAGE" is the PERSON in substance? if not then, that eliminates your three persons.

but here in Acts I didn't ask for titles, but PERSONS, listen, Acts 9:4 "And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Acts 9:5 "And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks".

this is a PERSON, "JESUS" now this,
Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel".
Here again it is JESUS speaking, a person.

NOW, NOW, this, chapter 22.
Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
ok, Ananias told Saul, now Paul, "the" God of our "Fathers" chose Saul, and you said JESUS is YAHWEH in the OT. the one Ananias say was speaking to him was "the God of their Fathers", saying that he, the Saul, now Paul should know "his" will, and "SEE" that just one, and should hear "his" vcoice.
so Dave is this the "SAME" Person talking to Ananias that spoke to Paul in chapter 9 when he, Paul fell to the ground?. please read this again.. ok.

once you answer that, then I'll ask my second part of this same question.

I'll be looking for your answer.

 

[APAK]

"Apak" are you saying that Jesus is God phyical, biological son? yes or no

Please answer.

What makes Jesus the true Son of God was fully realized when he became the power of God in heaven. This occurred after his death and resurrection on the cross into immortality sharing in the divinity of his Father as an immortal. Other previous sons of God were not truly God's sons because they are/were not immortal. Yes Jesus was called the Son of God whilst on earth because he possesses the spirit and word (mind)of his Father from birth and grew in this spirit (knowledge, wisdom etc.) and especially after his baptism when he received from his Father, which he brought to bear, his 'full' power that guaranteed success to his death on the cross. We will eventually realize our place and then understand we are the true adopted sons of God when we receive our immortal bodies and partake of the divinity of God.

The physical aspect of Jesus' physical body, as part of the physical and spiritual conception is inconsequential in this subject.

Bless you, Great Day to you

APAK

 

[101G]

well this is the first trinitarian I heard that said the Name JESUS is the Name of the Father, the son, and the Holy Spirit. well that just contridicted another sritpture used by trinitarian to prove their 3 in 1 that says ... 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, (Son) and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one".

all three have the same NAME ... JESUS then all 3here are nothing but TITLES, and not Persons.

when Dave said Jesus is the name of the Father, son, and the Holy Ghost, that was the end of any trinity.

 

[101G]

What makes Jesus the true Son of God was fully realized when he became the power of God in heaven. This occurred after his death and resurrection on the cross into immortality sharing in the divinity of his Father as an immortal. Other previous sons of God were not truly God's sons because they are/were not immortal. Yes Jesus was called the Son of God whilst on earth because he possesses the spirit and word (mind)of his Father from birth and grew in this spirit (knowledge, wisdom etc.) and especially after his baptism when he received from his Father, which he brought to bear, his 'full' power that guaranteed success to his death on the cross. We will eventually realize our place and then understand we are the true adopted sons of God when we receive our immortal bodies and partake of the divinity of God.

The physical aspect of Jesus' physical body, as part of the physical and spiritual conception is inconsequential in this subject.

Bless you, Great Day to you

APAK

well, if the physical aspect of Jesus' physical body, as part of the physical and spiritual conception is inconsequential in this subject.
then I'll address this part of what you said.

What makes Jesus the true Son of God was fully realized when he became the power of God in heaven. This occurred after his death and resurrection on the cross into immortality sharing in the divinity of his Father as an immortal.

sharing in the divinity of his Father as an immortal?.
well "apack" the scriptures disagree with that assessment. and here's why..
1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

now if the Lord Jesus is the only PERSON who has immortality, it means that he's NOT sharing it

ONLY means, "and no one or nothing more besides; solely or exclusively".

well that leaves the one whom you call the Father OUT. ....

don't argue with me, read the scriptures again.

so the bible says, NOT me, but the bible say you're in ERROR.

try again.

 

[Dave L]

GINOLJC, to all.
first, thanks for the reply. second, you admit that JESUS is the LORD/God of the OT, all caps of LORD. well did you not say in post #8,

if Jesus is the express Image "of" God's "SUBSTANCE" then is he the same and "ONE" person in substance?, is the "IMAGE" is the PERSON in substance? if not then, that eliminates your three persons.

but here in Acts I didn't ask for titles, but PERSONS, listen, Acts 9:4 "And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Acts 9:5 "And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks".

this is a PERSON, "JESUS" now this,
Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel".
Here again it is JESUS speaking, a person.

NOW, NOW, this, chapter 22.
Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
ok, Ananias told Saul, now Paul, "the" God of our "Fathers" chose Saul, and you said JESUS is YAHWEH in the OT. the one Ananias say was speaking to him was "the God of their Fathers", saying that he, the Saul, now Paul should know "his" will, and "SEE" that just one, and should hear "his" vcoice.
so Dave is this the "SAME" Person talking to Ananias that spoke to Paul in chapter 9 when he, Paul fell to the ground?. please read this again.. ok.

once you answer that, then I'll ask my second part of this same question.

I'll be looking for your answer.

Jesus the man spoke as the Word/Son of God, the second person of the trinity. But in him, the man, dwells the triune God.

 

[Dave L]

@Dave L,

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6).

Do you confess that Jesus is the Lord in light of Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21?

If not, then you do not have the Holy Ghost of scripture, and are therefore not saved/born again (1 Corinthians 12:3).

Jesus Christ = YAHWEH. And he is Lord of all who discern him in truth. Which raises questions about your faith.

 

[Dave L]

I think you need to apologize to me for accusing me of not believing in the Trinity...

I believe that the Father inhabits eternity, but that the Son walked the earth. Nevertheless the Son is the Father (although the Father is not the Son) because the Father became/becomes/will become the Son (for lack of better terminology) according to Ephesians 3:11.

Show me how this is not biblical (if it isn't) instead of making blanket statements that you think that I am denying the Trinity with my statements. I am not doing so. I am actually trying to help people understand the Trinity better. There is scriptural support for every statement that I have made concerning the subject; and looking at the scripture reference will help you to understand what I have been saying better if you go back and look at everything again.

You don't want to talk by PM anymore because I began to take on your personal tone in the context of the PM (because I felt more liberty to do so because the conversation is private). I began to take on your tone so that you might not be wise in your own eyes (but of course I became like you in doing so).

You have a condemning attitude, and the Lord said that this is not His will for any of us (Luke 6:37). Of course, if anyone's tongue rises up against a true servant of the LORD in judgment, it is his heritage to condemn that tongue (Isaiah 54:17).

How can you believe in the historic doctrine of the trinity if you disagree with it?

 

[101G]

while "apeck" and dave are peparing their responses, I'm going to, sa they say, "throw down the gauntlet", or "draw a line in the sand, that no can cross".

dave, said in Post #421, "The doctrine of the Trinity in scripture can be summed up as; There is one God. The Father is God. The Son is God. And the Holy Spirit is God. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is not the Father. If you violate any of this, you do not understand scripture on the matter". and he gives the baptism of our Lord Jesus as his example. will I'm going to violate this matter by the Scriptures.

I always propose two, the "share" of one Spirit. and at the Baptism of Jesus we will prove it.
Matthew 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Matthew 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased".

here we have our Lord standing in water, the Son. we have the Spirit of God descending like a dove, the Holy Spirit.

then we have "A Voice" from heaven. QUESTION, "where in the scriptures that says that this voice is God's voice here at the baptism?". let me remind people of this,
John 5:37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape".

now this was spoken of the Lord Jesus after his baprism, and can the Lord Jesus lie? of course not.

I have proved that angels have spoke for God "FROM HEAVEN" using his chosen words fo the angel to speak, hence the title "angels".... messengers.

so I have answered, and showed that only the Son and Holy Spirit "ONLY" is present at the baptism.

now, no one have answered the John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 question, nor the Revelation 1:4 & 5 question.

if one has, please give Post number. I could be mistaken and did not see the answer.

PICJAG.

for clarity, re-read the post, or ask any question on the matter, or this post.