Proof of the Trinity. No takers?
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101G
Well-Known Member
Ok, since the baptism of the Lord Jesus is taken away, the Genesis 1:26 verse need to be taken away also.
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth".
the "us" and the "Our" seems plural, "more than one", yes, 100% correct, but not from God/the Holy Spirit point of view, meaning the Offspring of David, (God shared, or diversified in flesh) has not yet come into the world, to it a "US" or "OUR" yet.
lets deal with God speaking then in Genesis 1:26, first. since God has not come in flesh yet, and he speak in future terms, do the scriptures support him by himself when he created the man and the woman, "MALE" and "FEMALE"?. do the scriptures states this? let's check the record.
Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created".
ok, "he" is a single desigination, but in 1:26 is said let "us". so how did God go from "us" to only "him/he", a single designation.
as said in the OT at Genesis God is not yet diverse in "Flesh" so God was speaking of the "IMAGE" to come which is "ANOTHER" of himself, shared in "FLESH". that's why the "US" and the "OUR" is used. supportive scripture, Romans 5:14b "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come".
that word "Figure" is the IMAGE that God the Holy Spirit came in when Mary birthed that flesh, that body, that temple, that vesture.
so the "US" and the "OUR" in Genesis 1:6 is the Diversity of God shared in Flesh, who is to redeem and save the world, supportive scripture,
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made".
All things were made by him?. notice "Him" is a single desigination, scripture
Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created".
the "HIM" in John 1:3 is the "he" of Genesis 5:1 & 2, who made all things including Adam and Eve the woman in Genesis 1:26. remember, if it was not made he didn't make it, John 1:3b "and without him was not any thing made that was made". and man was MADE was he not into Male and Female, Genesis 1:26....
now the trinitarian scripture of Genesis 1:26 is taken away, NO TRINITY THERE. they can't use that scripture any more to help promote their doctrine.
see how easy it is to answer a question directly.
next we will look at John chapter 17.......
I suggest one re-read this post for clarity
2 down 1 to go.
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth".
the "us" and the "Our" seems plural, "more than one", yes, 100% correct, but not from God/the Holy Spirit point of view, meaning the Offspring of David, (God shared, or diversified in flesh) has not yet come into the world, to it a "US" or "OUR" yet.
lets deal with God speaking then in Genesis 1:26, first. since God has not come in flesh yet, and he speak in future terms, do the scriptures support him by himself when he created the man and the woman, "MALE" and "FEMALE"?. do the scriptures states this? let's check the record.
Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created".
ok, "he" is a single desigination, but in 1:26 is said let "us". so how did God go from "us" to only "him/he", a single designation.
as said in the OT at Genesis God is not yet diverse in "Flesh" so God was speaking of the "IMAGE" to come which is "ANOTHER" of himself, shared in "FLESH". that's why the "US" and the "OUR" is used. supportive scripture, Romans 5:14b "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come".
that word "Figure" is the IMAGE that God the Holy Spirit came in when Mary birthed that flesh, that body, that temple, that vesture.
so the "US" and the "OUR" in Genesis 1:6 is the Diversity of God shared in Flesh, who is to redeem and save the world, supportive scripture,
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made".
All things were made by him?. notice "Him" is a single desigination, scripture
Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created".
the "HIM" in John 1:3 is the "he" of Genesis 5:1 & 2, who made all things including Adam and Eve the woman in Genesis 1:26. remember, if it was not made he didn't make it, John 1:3b "and without him was not any thing made that was made". and man was MADE was he not into Male and Female, Genesis 1:26....
now the trinitarian scripture of Genesis 1:26 is taken away, NO TRINITY THERE. they can't use that scripture any more to help promote their doctrine.
see how easy it is to answer a question directly.
next we will look at John chapter 17.......
I suggest one re-read this post for clarity
2 down 1 to go.
Known that for years.. It is why I cannot put any thing before Him.
Should say, Your Word is in me and with me,
Reading 1 Timothy 6:15-16 should clarify the issue.
Of course, we still continue to disagree concerning the contention over John 8:24, I am almost certain.
re #1022...
I believe that the issue of plurality in Genesis 1:26, as well as in John 1:1, is answered adequately by Ephesians 4:10 and Isaiah 57:15...
God (being outside of time) descended into time and ascended again to be outside of time. So there are two of the same Person dwelling on the eternal plane.
I believe that the issue of plurality in Genesis 1:26, as well as in John 1:1, is answered adequately by Ephesians 4:10 and Isaiah 57:15...
God (being outside of time) descended into time and ascended again to be outside of time. So there are two of the same Person dwelling on the eternal plane.
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101G
Well-Known Member
yes, and... let's throw in also,
Titus 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
101G
Well-Known Member
So there are two of the same Person dwelling on the eternal plane?
how about one person, and his "another, which is himself "shared" in flesh.
101G
Well-Known Member
understanding the "share" of God.
The Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit, is the "ANOTHER" of himself, numerically expressed in numbers, like in .... two.
but if God is two, hence the plurality of himself, how do "Diversified Oneness" reconcile this scripture? Revelation 22:3 "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Revelation 22:4 "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads".
we know that his body is the fullness of the Godhead, but it's still numerically two, one who is Spirit, and the "Another" of himself which is in flesh. but God is one, in nature, and one in a body. not one body walking around with three person or two shared being in it. no, "Diversified Oneness" answers it this way.
Sharing, based on G243 allos express a NUMERICIAL DIFFERENCE meaning more than one, (Father and Son, TWO), is called DIFFERENTIATION. question, what is the OPPOSITE of DIFFERENTIATION?, since the process of “ANOTHER PRESENT”, is the sharing of Spirit. so, what is the opposite of DIFFERENTIATION, answer, "ASSIMILATION". the definition of "ASSIMILATION" is to take in, or to incorporate as one's own, hence the Godhead bodily.
with this knowledge, it also answer the 1 Corinthians 15:27 & 28 "be Subject" question... oh how easy "Diversified Oneness" answer hard question of the bible. it just make them so easy to answer.
be blessed in christ Jesus.
The Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit, is the "ANOTHER" of himself, numerically expressed in numbers, like in .... two.
but if God is two, hence the plurality of himself, how do "Diversified Oneness" reconcile this scripture? Revelation 22:3 "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Revelation 22:4 "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads".
we know that his body is the fullness of the Godhead, but it's still numerically two, one who is Spirit, and the "Another" of himself which is in flesh. but God is one, in nature, and one in a body. not one body walking around with three person or two shared being in it. no, "Diversified Oneness" answers it this way.
Sharing, based on G243 allos express a NUMERICIAL DIFFERENCE meaning more than one, (Father and Son, TWO), is called DIFFERENTIATION. question, what is the OPPOSITE of DIFFERENTIATION?, since the process of “ANOTHER PRESENT”, is the sharing of Spirit. so, what is the opposite of DIFFERENTIATION, answer, "ASSIMILATION". the definition of "ASSIMILATION" is to take in, or to incorporate as one's own, hence the Godhead bodily.
with this knowledge, it also answer the 1 Corinthians 15:27 & 28 "be Subject" question...
oh how easy "Diversified Oneness" answer hard question of the bible. it just make them so easy to answer.be blessed in christ Jesus.
How are these two things different?
I would love it if you would elaborate on that...
PS the email address that you gave me did not register with my email program...perhaps you could PM me again and give me the correct one?
In the Greek, Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God even our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:13.
I would say that when the Spirit (the Father) was released from Jesus' body back to Him who inhabits eternity, that the Person released back to the Father (who holds the title of Holy Ghost, but who is in all reality the Father) is the same Person as He who had descended; however this third Person has experiential knowledge of being human. And thus He makes intercession for us before the Father (the 1st Person of the Trinity who inhabits eternity first and foremost). The Holy Ghost also inhabits eternity as a second Person on the eternal plane, who is the same exact Person as the 1st but with added human experience (and thus, perhaps, a different personality). Both are the one, eternal Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, Hebrews 9:14). However this second Person proceedeth from the Father as the same One who was released back to the Father.
Scriptures to ponder: John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11, Luke 23:46.
Of course we are not now discussing the One who is generally called the second Person of the Trinity (the Son of God, who is come in human flesh). In leaving Him out of the discussion, the Holy Ghost is a second Person, which does not at all deny that within the doctrine of the Trinity He is the 3rd Person.
For the 2nd Person is the human Jesus = body + Spirit. The third Person being the "evolved" Spirit. The 1st Person being the original, primary Spirit that is called God the Father.
Scriptures to ponder: John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11, Luke 23:46.
Of course we are not now discussing the One who is generally called the second Person of the Trinity (the Son of God, who is come in human flesh). In leaving Him out of the discussion, the Holy Ghost is a second Person, which does not at all deny that within the doctrine of the Trinity He is the 3rd Person.
For the 2nd Person is the human Jesus = body + Spirit. The third Person being the "evolved" Spirit. The 1st Person being the original, primary Spirit that is called God the Father.
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The origins of the Son of God is that He was conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary by a union of the egg therein with the Holy Ghost.
Thus Jesus is the Holy Ghost come in the flesh, that one Spirit with an added nature of humanty.
In Luke 1:35 the Father is identified as the Holy Ghost (but I don't know that He is identified as such anywhere else in scripture; except through the understanding that there is only one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) and that that Spirit is the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:37-39)).
Thus Jesus is the Holy Ghost come in the flesh, that one Spirit with an added nature of humanty.
In Luke 1:35 the Father is identified as the Holy Ghost (but I don't know that He is identified as such anywhere else in scripture; except through the understanding that there is only one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) and that that Spirit is the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:37-39)).
Thus the Holy Ghost (the Father) was basically reproduced in the human Spirit of Jesus Christ.
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The Son is defined as the human Jesus.
Thus the fact that the Son is a Spirit (Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12, John 4:24) would place Jesus as not being in the flesh on that level. And yet He is come in the flesh.
So the Jesus that dwells within us is the Spirit of Jesus, the Spirit of the Son, and in that sense the Son is a Spirit who is come in our flesh (as He dwells within us (and is also a Man sitting on the right hand of the throne of God))...again see 1 John 5:12 and Colossians 1:27.
Because, since the Son has as His definition the human Jesus, the Holy Ghost (apart from His physical body) would be His Spirit; and that would make Him one and the same Person as the Son (as He dwells within us), because of 1 John 5:12.
We cannot have the Son and therefore have life unless He is a Spirit that comes to dwell within us.
Thus the 3rd Person of the Trinity is also Jesus (the Spirit of the Son of God, even the Christ the Son of God, 1 John 5:12, Colossians 1:27).
Thus the fact that the Son is a Spirit (Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12, John 4:24) would place Jesus as not being in the flesh on that level. And yet He is come in the flesh.
So the Jesus that dwells within us is the Spirit of Jesus, the Spirit of the Son, and in that sense the Son is a Spirit who is come in our flesh (as He dwells within us (and is also a Man sitting on the right hand of the throne of God))...again see 1 John 5:12 and Colossians 1:27.
Because, since the Son has as His definition the human Jesus, the Holy Ghost (apart from His physical body) would be His Spirit; and that would make Him one and the same Person as the Son (as He dwells within us), because of 1 John 5:12.
We cannot have the Son and therefore have life unless He is a Spirit that comes to dwell within us.
Thus the 3rd Person of the Trinity is also Jesus (the Spirit of the Son of God, even the Christ the Son of God, 1 John 5:12, Colossians 1:27).
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Have you considered your belief is a trait of those with the "spirit of Antichrist"?
“They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.” (1 John 2:19) (HCSB)
“Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son.” (1 John 2:22) (HCSB)
You do this by lumping the Father and Son together as being the same person.
If you study church history and the historic doctrines, you would be able to ask informed questions. Not denominationally biased questions based on only one point of view.
If Paul says scripture thoroughly furnishes us, then extra-biblical revelations are not from God. Peter said, even though they heard God speak audibly, it was of private interpretation. And that scripture is not of private interpretation making it superior. And Paul said tongues and prophecy would cease, which it did when scripture, that which is perfect (Greek = complete) came. SO you need to get back into scripture and stay away from the devil's domain where crazy people hear voices and deceive the simple.
101G
Well-Known Member
first thanks for the reply,
second,
Jeremiah 23:21 "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied".
I didn't run, nor did I "WENT" but is "SENT".
Matthew 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves".
third, I lump nothing together, as a matter of fact I diversified, and certified what's in the Scriptures. if what I speak in the lord Jesus, and you think or believe that I'm in ERROR, ther by the Spirit correct me by the Scriptures........
is it not your duty as a child of God to correct false doctrine?
PICJAG
What about Jesus' baptism? You still cannot get around the three persons, all called God, present at once.
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