Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[Dave L]

Relax, Dave ... you do not need to be baptized with the Holy spirit to go to heaven.
It is a special anointing for ministry ... often for the 5-fold ministry (Eph 4:11).
But, multitudes of Spirit-filled BACs are incredibly important intercessors, and etc.

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:9)

(Did you know that apart from the two outpourings, the Charismatic gifts came only through the Apostles hands. And the gifts ceased when the Apostles died off?) Let's not derail this thread, but maybe discuss this in a new thread?

 

[farouk]

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:9)

Great verse there; often forgotten.

And I do find the title of this thread misleading.

 

[Dave L]

Again, you didn't answer. With all due respect, I'm getting the impression that you really don't value scripture, listening to the Spirit, and very much prize the traditions of men (as long as they reflect your own personal interpretation).

Here's the questions once again:
Scripture is God-breathed and inspired by God Himself. Do you hold the same to be true of the Chalcedoian Creed? Athanasian? You did state that the Westminster is not. Why?

And by what logic do you conclude the statement "But to reject creeds and accept books is not evidence of clear thinking"? How does this compare to your rejection the Westminster Creed?

Creeds are man made, just as any book. We could write a creed on this forum. We would pick a topic, and debate it. And debate it again until nothing is left to debate. And then write down the results in a crisp clear paragraph. This is how the creeds came into existence. And why they are valuable as textbooks for bible study. I find errors in all except the brief Ecumenical creeds about Christ and the Trinity. And they seem to have survived all challenges until this day.

 

[Dave L]

Again, they do not believe in the rapture.

No, but they want you to believe in it. Google Jesuits Dispensationalism and then see what you think.

 

[bbyrd009]

You have just written your own creed about rejecting the creeds of others. Are libraries bad? And books should be burned? Each text book is nothing more than a creed.

even most textbooks allow when they are functioning on theory rather than fact i think Dave
tbh imo you are describing your approach more than creeds here.
A textbook might even outline several diff disciplines or "creeds" that might successfully be pursued?

 

[bbyrd009]

i got a lot of resistance a while back for suggesting that beliefs = theories,
that imo kinda speaks to this

 

[Dave L]

even most textbooks allow when they are functioning on theory rather than fact i think Dave
tbh imo you are describing your approach more than creeds here.
A textbook might even outline several diff disciplines or "creeds" that might successfully be pursued?

As far as I know creeds develop topics that are under attack. Those debating are highly learned on both sides. After exhausting the argument, they write down the outcome and document it with the scriptures used. And it become a doctrine. Creeds are like pericopes of the bible and good for quick reference.

 

[Dave L]

i got a lot of resistance a while back for suggesting that beliefs = theories,
that imo kinda speaks to this

This is true in today's religious climate. Most of what popular thought believes about the end times has no direct support from scripture.

 

[bbyrd009]

As far as I know creeds develop topics that are under attack. Those debating are highly learned on both sides. After exhausting the argument, they write down the outcome and document it with the scriptures used. And it become a doctrine. Creeds are like pericopes of the bible and good for quick reference.

let the dead bury the dead
is what comes to mind there

 

[Dave L]

let the dead bury the dead
is what comes to mind there

If you have questions, the creeds have answers, most of which hold true. Why did God create? It's in the creeds with scripture to support it.

 

[bbyrd009]

If you have questions, the creeds have answers, most of which hold true. Why did God create? It's in the creeds with scripture to support it.

and apparently Scripture to refute it too huh
first you gotta cross the Yam Suph Dave, can't even enter the Wilderness til then i guess
love believes all things

 

[bbyrd009]

what i mean is, we want something written down in stone, well we got that already

i think we even got passages about those who take it upon themselves to write other stuff down in stone?

 

[Dave L]

and apparently Scripture to refute it too huh
first you gotta cross the Yam Suph Dave, can't even enter the Wilderness til then i guess
love believes all things

Can't argue with that...

 

[Zachary]

As for the baptism of the holy spirit, everyone is when they're born again. The only reason I mention this is because I've seen some pretty serious damage chasing the Pentecostal version.

Sorry, this baptism is given as a special anointing for:
--- one of the 5-fold ministry offices (Eph 4:11)
--- being a powerful prayer-warrior, intercessor, etc.
... and is confirmed by at least a few words in tongues.

Brother, men's actions in NO way dictate what is spiritual Truth.

 

[Zachary]

... how blessed I am to have escaped
the tentacles of denominational churches.
Hallelujah!

Yes, brethren, get out of them now
(unless the Spirit says to stay where you are),
and get involved in a house church,
and be led by the most precious Holy Spirit
as He reveals the Truth from God's word.

 

[amadeus]

This is why I do not listen to one church position or creed only. And why I say Christendom (the body of Christ) has all of the truth. But no single church or denomination has all the truth. This is why I study beyond the constraints of any single denomination. And consider myself a member of Christ's body, and not a member of any man made group divided off from the rest.

Actually the way you describe where you stand and travel is similar to how I might describe where I stand and travel even though apparently on a number of things we are separated.

 

[bbyrd009]

Can't argue with that...

well, if you hold any creed as absolute truth i guess you can!

 

[CoreIssue]

No, but they want you to believe in it. Google Jesuits Dispensationalism and then see what you think.

Why would Catholics want me to believe in rapture.

Belief in the rapture existed centuries before Jesuits Dispensationalism. That has already been covered elsewhere.


You are like commercials on TV. Forget truth, just buy my product.

 

[CoreIssue]

Sorry, this baptism is given as a special anointing for:
--- one of the 5-fold ministry offices (Eph 4:11)
--- being a powerful prayer-warrior, intercessor, etc.
... and is confirmed by at least a few words in tongues.

Brother, men's actions in NO way dictate what is spiritual Truth.

As I said, I believe in gifts and have gifts. But never spoke in tongues.

When receiving the holy spirit initially in the new testament some spoken in tongues but most didn't.

The bible never demands tongues.

The big problem today is many mystifying what the gifts mean. They mystify them into something they're not.

Speaking in Tongues

 

[CoreIssue]

As I said, I believe in gifts and have gifts. But never spoke in tongues.

When receiving the holy spirit initially in the new testament some spoken in tongues but most didn't.

The bible never demands tongues.

The big problem today is many mystifying what the gifts mean. They mystify them into something they're not.

Speaking in Tongues

51 Bible verses about Baptism Of The Holy Spirit