Proofs of god's existence

[Wrangler]

You cannot imagine that the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus.

In no way is the 12th century organization known as the Roman Catholic Church the church that Jesus founded.

 

[Berserk]

This is 2022, many centuries after the Didache was written. Modern medicine, including problems and solutions related to pregnancy, bears no resemblance to the medical care of roughly two millennia ago.

And the subject of abortion is discussed in other threads. It is not relevant to a discussion of "proof of God's existence".

Irrelevant in 2 ways:
(1) You duck the key issue of the morality of aborting a human life.
(2) You duck the relevance of the incompleteness of biblical revelation to the question of so-called "proof" of God's existence.
For example. intellectual integrity requires us to invoke progressive revelation to explain the assumptive chasm between the OT Yahweh and the Father of Jesus Christ. The requirement of unprovable assumptions means that the term "proof" is inappropriate for the quest to establish God's existence. The word "proof" implies verification and testability, neither of which are relevant to God's existence. More appropriate terminology includes "psychologoically persuasive" and "convincing," both of which are functions of underlying unprovable assumptions shaped by the transforming experience of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jim B]

Irrelevant in 2 ways:
(1) You duck the key issue of the morality of aborting a human life.
(2) You duck the relevance of the incompleteness of biblical revelation to the question of so-called "proof" of God's existence.
For example. intellectual integrity requires us to invoke progressive revelation to explain the assumptive chasm between the OT Yahweh and the Father of Jesus Christ. The requirement of unprovable assumptions means that the term "proof" is inappropriate for the quest to establish God's existence. The word "proof" implies verification and testability, neither of which are relevant to God's existence. More appropriate terminology includes "psychologoically persuasive" and "convincing," both of which are functions of underlying unprovable assumptions shaped by the transforming experience of the Holy Spirit.

I am not avoiding "the morality of aborting a human life". Even the wording of that phrase is slanted. A fetus has no life separate from the mother. => It cannot survive on its own <= Aborting a pregnancy is not the elimination of a life. It is the termination of a pregnancy that may or may not result in a fetus being able to survive on its own, separate from the mother and the placenta. Clearly you don't understand that!

And your second paragraph seems to be a cut-and-paste job, since the writing style is very different from your other posts. What are you trying to say in your own words?

And it is time to drop the issue of abortion in this thread, since it has nothing to do with the OP: proofs of God's existence. There are other threads that address this issue.

 

[Berserk]

I am not avoiding "the morality of aborting a human life". Even the wording of that phrase is slanted. A fetus has no life separate from the mother. => It cannot survive on its own <= Aborting a pregnancy is not the elimination of a life. It is the termination of a pregnancy that may or may not result in a fetus being able to survive on its own, separate from the mother and the placenta. Clearly you don't understand that!

Clearly you are clueless about the incompleteness of biblical revelation. The Teaching of the 12 Apostles was composed in the NT era and its prohibition of abortion (4:2) is unchallenged in subsequent early Christian history. So it reflects the moral values of the NT church.

And your second paragraph seems to be a cut-and-paste job, since the writing style is very different from your other posts. What are you trying to say in your own words?

LOL. Your lack of education in Philosophy blinds you to the logical style I used as a Teaching Fellow in Logic in our Philosophy department.

 

[Jim B]

Clearly you are clueless about the incompleteness of biblical revelation. The Teaching of the 12 Apostles was composed in the NT era and its prohibition of abortion (4:2) is unchallenged in subsequent early Christian history. So it reflects the moral values of the NT church.

LOL. Your lack of education in Philosophy blinds you to the logical style I used as a Teaching Fellow in Logic in our Philosophy department.

This is just nonsense. What does (4:2) mean?

And your credentials don't mean anything unless you have something of value to say. As my favorite professor used to say, "Universities are insane asylums for the very intelligent".

 

[David in NJ]

The existence of God has always been a subject of debate in religious philosophy and popular culture. There are many arguments that have been made on this topic, and especially for Christians like us, this is a fascinating topic. So what proof is that God exists in our World?

The Bible reveals a God that provides proof of His existence. Here are some of the evidence that the Bible and scientists have mentioned:

- Science has discovered that our physical universe emerged from scratch. But how did this happen? Science cannot explain the origin of the universe, but answers are needed. Contrary to what some people believe, the Bible's simple answer is consistent with true science: “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1).

- Creativity requires a creative person. The Hubble telescope continues to reveal previously unknown galaxies. Our fantastic universe amazes us. Under the night sky, King David of ancient Israel asked God: “When I consider his heavens, the work of his fingers, the moon and the stars, You predestined, what is the man that You care for him and his son that you come to visit him?" (Psalm 8:3-4). David calls the universe the work of God's fingers. He knew that God created the universe. Did the universe begin? What do scientists say? The famous astrophysicist Stephen Hawking, in a lecture titled "The Beginning of Time", stated the view of most astronomers today: "the universe does not last forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, began with the big bang, about 15 billion years ago.”

- In 1641, Rene Descartes gave "Proof of the Existence of God". This is the series of arguments he makes in the treatise (1 formal philosophical observation) "Meditation on the First Philosopher", first appearing in "Meditation III, Being", and discusses in more depth. in “Meditation V: On the nature of material things and again on God, that He exists.” Descartes is known for his early arguments that hoped to prove the existence of God, but later philosophers often criticized his evidence for being too narrow and based on "a very dubious premise" (Hobbes) that the image of God exists in humanity. In any case, understanding them is essential to understanding Descartes' later works "Principles of Philosophy" (1644) and his "Theory of Ideas".

- Andre Lemaire, an expert on ancient texts at Practical School of Higher Studies (France), believes he has found evidence that Jesus is real. It was an empty urinal, engraved in Arabic: James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus.

- The Jewish historian Josephus, who lived in the first century, wrote that “the brother of Jesus, whose name was James” was stoned to death in AD 62 for apostasy. Based on this record, Lemaire argues that if James' bones were deposited in the urine a year after his death, the inscription must have been written around AD 63—three decades after the crucifixion of Jesus up the cross. Lemaire argues that there are two factors that show that the above inscription was written in the time of Jesus. This typeface "matches perfectly" with other texts found in the first century AD. The second is the Jewish burial practice: They buried the dead only with urine between 20 BC and 70 AD.


There is much more evidence of the existence of God mentioned in many other documents. For us Christians, proof of the existence of God is also proof that our faith is always right.

The Irrefutable Observable Evidence of God is everywhere.

The World is blinded by sin and most cannot see it.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Romans ch1

 

[Davy]

The existence of God has always been a subject of debate in religious philosophy and popular culture. There are many arguments that have been made on this topic, and especially for Christians like us, this is a fascinating topic. So what proof is that God exists in our World?

....​

God's Word speaks of 2 separate dimensions of existence, this earthly one we live in, and the Heavenly one where God and the angels dwell, which is behind like an invisible veil that we cannot see with our flesh eyes. One dimension is made up of material matter, the other one is made up of Spirit only.

In science, the law of the conservation of mass (or matter) states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but only change its form... (liquid, solid, gas, vapor).

The Hebrews 11:3 Scripture reveals that scientific fact.

Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

That phrase above in red is so simple, yet so profound, it may take some time to think on it.

Indirectly, that part in red is saying that material matter which "things which are seen", was not made of "things which do appear", i.e., other matter. In other words, matter did NOT create matter.

And likewise science agrees, because science says the universe is a closed system so that there is no new matter. It only changes it form between a solid, liquid, gas, or vapor. (Early scientists proved long ago with material matter changing from like a solid to a gas through burning, that the burned residue and captured gas produced from its burning added together equaled the same amount of mass of the unburned piece of matter.)

So............. IF material matter did not create matter, then what does that statement point to that did... create matter??? The Answer: Non-matter. What's that? SPIRIT.

It is pointing to something of a DIFFERENT DIMENSION than material matter, having created matter. Those of Faith call Him God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit. But the idea of SPIRIT is what more easily explains that different dimension.

In John 3:6, Lord Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh, is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit." By that Lord Jesus was pointing to the 2 separate dimensions of existence written of in God's Word; this earthly dimension of material matter, and the heavenly dimension of Spirit. Even in John 4 he said that "God is a Spirit".

Thus God spoke, and His material creation came into existence, by His Spirit.

And that is something truly fantastic to think about, because even though He dwells outside of this earthly material dimension as a Spirit, that other dimension of Spirit still gives Him access to this earthly realm to control what goes on in our world, and in our hearts, and in our minds. And you know, scientists are still looking for Him inside the lowest division of atoms, and still have yet to find Him!

This ultimately means, by that Hebrews 11:3 verse, that just the existence of this material world of matter proves God's existence. That because material matter did not create this material world, it required something of a different dimension, like Spirit, to create matter. That proves the dimension of SPIRIT existed first, pointing to GOD's existence.

 

[David in NJ]

The existence of God has always been a subject of debate in religious philosophy and popular culture. There are many arguments that have been made on this topic, and especially for Christians like us, this is a fascinating topic. So what proof is that God exists in our World?

The Bible reveals a God that provides proof of His existence. Here are some of the evidence that the Bible and scientists have mentioned:

- Science has discovered that our physical universe emerged from scratch. But how did this happen? Science cannot explain the origin of the universe, but answers are needed. Contrary to what some people believe, the Bible's simple answer is consistent with true science: “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1).

- Creativity requires a creative person. The Hubble telescope continues to reveal previously unknown galaxies. Our fantastic universe amazes us. Under the night sky, King David of ancient Israel asked God: “When I consider his heavens, the work of his fingers, the moon and the stars, You predestined, what is the man that You care for him and his son that you come to visit him?" (Psalm 8:3-4). David calls the universe the work of God's fingers. He knew that God created the universe. Did the universe begin? What do scientists say? The famous astrophysicist Stephen Hawking, in a lecture titled "The Beginning of Time", stated the view of most astronomers today: "the universe does not last forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, began with the big bang, about 15 billion years ago.”

- In 1641, Rene Descartes gave "Proof of the Existence of God". This is the series of arguments he makes in the treatise (1 formal philosophical observation) "Meditation on the First Philosopher", first appearing in "Meditation III, Being", and discusses in more depth. in “Meditation V: On the nature of material things and again on God, that He exists.” Descartes is known for his early arguments that hoped to prove the existence of God, but later philosophers often criticized his evidence for being too narrow and based on "a very dubious premise" (Hobbes) that the image of God exists in humanity. In any case, understanding them is essential to understanding Descartes' later works "Principles of Philosophy" (1644) and his "Theory of Ideas".

- Andre Lemaire, an expert on ancient texts at Practical School of Higher Studies (France), believes he has found evidence that Jesus is real. It was an empty urinal, engraved in Arabic: James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus.

- The Jewish historian Josephus, who lived in the first century, wrote that “the brother of Jesus, whose name was James” was stoned to death in AD 62 for apostasy. Based on this record, Lemaire argues that if James' bones were deposited in the urine a year after his death, the inscription must have been written around AD 63—three decades after the crucifixion of Jesus up the cross. Lemaire argues that there are two factors that show that the above inscription was written in the time of Jesus. This typeface "matches perfectly" with other texts found in the first century AD. The second is the Jewish burial practice: They buried the dead only with urine between 20 BC and 70 AD.


There is much more evidence of the existence of God mentioned in many other documents. For us Christians, proof of the existence of God is also proof that our faith is always right.

Your hands, feet, eyes = just for a start........

 

[Behold]

Creation proves the existance of God., as you can't have Creation, without a Creator.
Everything that exists.......from your cell phone to the spinning Globe you are stuck on, has a beginning, and this exact point is the point of Creation, and therefore if it exists then it was created....Including this world.
The Bible (KJV) tells us who created the world.
Did you want to know? Then get a KJV, and read 2 verses and find out.

John 1:10
Colossians 1:16.

Also, the fact that goodness, kindness, compassion, mercy, grace, and love........all exist, proves that God exists, as these are God's traits, and God given to us and to this world.
All of these come from God, and only exist because God exists.

 

[Armour of God]

When I was an atheist and then agnostic I found two non biblical answers that convinced me of a creator.

The first is known as the watchmakers argument. It says that anything that is ordered, such as a watch, must have been created by someone intelligent, the watchmaker. The world and universe is well ordered and therefore cannot have been created by a random big bang that came from nothing, it must of been created by an intelligent being. God

Life comes from life. Babies come from the conception of two animals. Plants come from seeds/pollen of other plants. Everywhere we look we see that life comes from life. Therefore something, living somewhere, must have created the first lives in this world. That something is a creator and must be God.

Their are other arguments such the one on morality but for me those two arguments where the most convincing, making me believe that there is in fact a God.

God bless

 

[soberxp]

Israel is the place where women nurture their children—not because of the excellence or flaws of their race, but perhaps simply due to the personal preference of a tech geek, one who delights in arranging everything according to the inherent logic of things, an OCD patient when it comes to details—our God. And so Jesus Christ was born.
@Matthias
@Ben Abraham

 

[soberxp]

Israel is the place where women nurture their children—not because of the excellence or flaws of their race, but perhaps simply due to the personal preference of a tech geek, one who delights in arranging everything according to the inherent logic of things, an OCD patient when it comes to details—our God. And so Jesus Christ was born.
@Matthias
@Ben Abraham

 

[Wrangler]

When I was an atheist and then agnostic I found two non biblical answers that convinced me of a creator.

The first is known as the watchmakers argument.

To expand on this watchmaker argument is 2 contradictory facts:

1. Thermodynamic Law of Entropy. It states thay a system tends toward disorder. In other words, over time, the chaos of a system increases, order decreases.
2. Life is The Most Complicated Chemical Known to Exist. A more complicated molecule does not spontaneously “evolve” due to entropy. Entropy states that complicated chemicals will break down and become less ordered molecules over time. So, how did DNA come into existence?

I tell unbelievers that I don’t have enough faith to be an Atheist.

 

[Rotsen777]

The existence of God has always been a subject of debate in religious philosophy and popular culture. There are many arguments that have been made on this topic, and especially for Christians like us, this is a fascinating topic. So what proof is that God exists in our World?

The Bible reveals a God that provides proof of His existence. Here are some of the evidence that the Bible and scientists have mentioned:

- Science has discovered that our physical universe emerged from scratch. But how did this happen? Science cannot explain the origin of the universe, but answers are needed. Contrary to what some people believe, the Bible's simple answer is consistent with true science: “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1).

- Creativity requires a creative person. The Hubble telescope continues to reveal previously unknown galaxies. Our fantastic universe amazes us. Under the night sky, King David of ancient Israel asked God: “When I consider his heavens, the work of his fingers, the moon and the stars, You predestined, what is the man that You care for him and his son that you come to visit him?" (Psalm 8:3-4). David calls the universe the work of God's fingers. He knew that God created the universe. Did the universe begin? What do scientists say? The famous astrophysicist Stephen Hawking, in a lecture titled "The Beginning of Time", stated the view of most astronomers today: "the universe does not last forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, began with the big bang, about 15 billion years ago.”

- In 1641, Rene Descartes gave "Proof of the Existence of God". This is the series of arguments he makes in the treatise (1 formal philosophical observation) "Meditation on the First Philosopher", first appearing in "Meditation III, Being", and discusses in more depth. in “Meditation V: On the nature of material things and again on God, that He exists.” Descartes is known for his early arguments that hoped to prove the existence of God, but later philosophers often criticized his evidence for being too narrow and based on "a very dubious premise" (Hobbes) that the image of God exists in humanity. In any case, understanding them is essential to understanding Descartes' later works "Principles of Philosophy" (1644) and his "Theory of Ideas".

- Andre Lemaire, an expert on ancient texts at Practical School of Higher Studies (France), believes he has found evidence that Jesus is real. It was an empty urinal, engraved in Arabic: James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus.

- The Jewish historian Josephus, who lived in the first century, wrote that “the brother of Jesus, whose name was James” was stoned to death in AD 62 for apostasy. Based on this record, Lemaire argues that if James' bones were deposited in the urine a year after his death, the inscription must have been written around AD 63—three decades after the crucifixion of Jesus up the cross. Lemaire argues that there are two factors that show that the above inscription was written in the time of Jesus. This typeface "matches perfectly" with other texts found in the first century AD. The second is the Jewish burial practice: They buried the dead only with urine between 20 BC and 70 AD.


There is much more evidence of the existence of God mentioned in many other documents. For us Christians, proof of the existence of God is also proof that our faith is always right.

The best evidence for the existence of God is the direct utterances that He uttered to those people whom He spoke to in our time today.

 

[soberxp]

The best evidence for the existence of God is the direct utterances that He uttered to those people whom He spoke to in our time today.

Not me.

 

[CTK]

The existence of God has always been a subject of debate in religious philosophy and popular culture. There are many arguments that have been made on this topic, and especially for Christians like us, this is a fascinating topic. So what proof is that God exists in our World?

The Bible reveals a God that provides proof of His existence. Here are some of the evidence that the Bible and scientists have mentioned:

- Science has discovered that our physical universe emerged from scratch. But how did this happen? Science cannot explain the origin of the universe, but answers are needed. Contrary to what some people believe, the Bible's simple answer is consistent with true science: “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1).

- Creativity requires a creative person. The Hubble telescope continues to reveal previously unknown galaxies. Our fantastic universe amazes us. Under the night sky, King David of ancient Israel asked God: “When I consider his heavens, the work of his fingers, the moon and the stars, You predestined, what is the man that You care for him and his son that you come to visit him?" (Psalm 8:3-4). David calls the universe the work of God's fingers. He knew that God created the universe. Did the universe begin? What do scientists say? The famous astrophysicist Stephen Hawking, in a lecture titled "The Beginning of Time", stated the view of most astronomers today: "the universe does not last forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, began with the big bang, about 15 billion years ago.”

- In 1641, Rene Descartes gave "Proof of the Existence of God". This is the series of arguments he makes in the treatise (1 formal philosophical observation) "Meditation on the First Philosopher", first appearing in "Meditation III, Being", and discusses in more depth. in “Meditation V: On the nature of material things and again on God, that He exists.” Descartes is known for his early arguments that hoped to prove the existence of God, but later philosophers often criticized his evidence for being too narrow and based on "a very dubious premise" (Hobbes) that the image of God exists in humanity. In any case, understanding them is essential to understanding Descartes' later works "Principles of Philosophy" (1644) and his "Theory of Ideas".

- Andre Lemaire, an expert on ancient texts at Practical School of Higher Studies (France), believes he has found evidence that Jesus is real. It was an empty urinal, engraved in Arabic: James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus.

- The Jewish historian Josephus, who lived in the first century, wrote that “the brother of Jesus, whose name was James” was stoned to death in AD 62 for apostasy. Based on this record, Lemaire argues that if James' bones were deposited in the urine a year after his death, the inscription must have been written around AD 63—three decades after the crucifixion of Jesus up the cross. Lemaire argues that there are two factors that show that the above inscription was written in the time of Jesus. This typeface "matches perfectly" with other texts found in the first century AD. The second is the Jewish burial practice: They buried the dead only with urine between 20 BC and 70 AD.


There is much more evidence of the existence of God mentioned in many other documents. For us Christians, proof of the existence of God is also proof that our faith is always right.

Only God could have made bacon.