Prophecy vs. Apocalyptic

[Jay Ross]

I'm sorry, but I see this as a bit of a stretch.

Even Dr Ice thought the same as you and wrote an article to that effect shortly after 9-11.

However, what swung me to come to this understanding was the impact it had on the "king", i.e. the President, of the USA and the King, i.e. the PM of Australia, in that they called on all of the nations of the earth to make war against the terrorists that had caused the calamity on that day which lead to the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, which has dominion over the Land of Babylon. What we are presently seeing is blurring of the lines that define what a terrorist is and the subsequent drawing of all the nations of the earth to assemble at Armageddon to go up against Jerusalem because of Israel's attempt at that time to rebuild the Temple. I could see how the latter part of this prophecy could be fulfilled over time.

It is okay with me, that you do not see it the same way, but time, possibly with 25 years or so, I hope, will prove me right in the end, but my passing may happen before then as my "aging" will over take my years.

Shalom

 

[Naomi25]

If you read the verse again, it has an earthquake followed by the shaking of the foundations of the jail such that the doors where all opened and the chairs fell off the prisoners. I somehow think that the foundations of the jail was cause by the turmoil going on and around the jail. Why was there turmoil in and around the jail? Because God was working a miracle to save a man and his family and to release the prisoners from the jail, a great turmoil was occurring in and around the jail. It seems to me that the shaking of the ground was rather localised to say the least. Therefore, if a great earthquake had occurred as is supposedly reported in Acts 16:26, then logically we would be able to find a report that the city was destroyed and shaken as well, but Luke does not record that this also happened.

For me, the word seems to be used to describe turmoil which can be used to describe the action of waves on the Lake of Galilea when Jesus was asleep in the boat or the shaking of people such that they had a great fear or the like because of what was happening around them. In the OT it is also used to describe the turmoil of war which is the usage in the Revelation 16:17-21 passage.

Shalom

Wait....there was an earthquake....but you think the loosening of the foundations came from the civic turmoil? That came right after the earthquake? And that this civic turmoil put them in such a fuss and bother it managed to pop loose the foundations and spring open the doors and chains?

I think when the bible says that God caused the ground to shake, that's what happened. Who knows or cares if it happened in other parts of the city...do we not acknowledge that the one who sent it to such a specific and targeted area could also limit such a thing if he so chose? And I think it much more likely that a buildings foundations were shook loose, which jarred loose the door and chains that were attached to the walls, then any sort of turmoil surrounding the jail. Turmoil implies many people coming from the outside, attempting to free the prisoners (for else how do any of the get free, to free the others, and so on and so forth)...does the verse mention anyone other than Paul, Silas, some other prisoners, who are also bound and the guard? Not really...and we already know the guard had no hand in helping them get free initially.

Like I said, all things considered, I think it's more logical to just read 'earthquake' when it says 'earthquake'.

 

[Naomi25]

Even Dr Ice thought the same as you and wrote an article to that effect shortly after 9-11.

However, what swung me to come to this understanding was the impact it had on the "king", i.e. the President, of the USA and the King, i.e. the PM of Australia, in that they called on all of the nations of the earth to make war against the terrorists that had caused the calamity on that day which lead to the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, which has dominion over the Land of Babylon. What we are presently seeing is blurring of the lines that define what a terrorist is and the subsequent drawing of all the nations of the earth to assemble at Armageddon to go up against Jerusalem because of Israel's attempt at that time to rebuild the Temple. I could see how the latter part of this prophecy could be fulfilled over time.

It is okay with me, that you do not see it the same way, but time, possibly with 25 years or so, I hope, will prove me right in the end, but my passing may happen before then as my "aging" will over take my years.

Shalom

Well, yes, I suppose we do see it differently. But, like you, I agree that's okay!

 

[Jay Ross]

Wait....there was an earthquake....but you think the loosening of the foundations came from the civic turmoil? That came right after the earthquake? And that this civic turmoil put them in such a fuss and bother it managed to pop loose the foundations and spring open the doors and chains?

I think when the bible says that God caused the ground to shake, that's what happened. Who knows or cares if it happened in other parts of the city...do we not acknowledge that the one who sent it to such a specific and targeted area could also limit such a thing if he so chose? And I think it much more likely that a buildings foundations were shook loose, which jarred loose the door and chains that were attached to the walls, then any sort of turmoil surrounding the jail. Turmoil implies many people coming from the outside, attempting to free the prisoners (for else how do any of the get free, to free the others, and so on and so forth)...does the verse mention anyone other than Paul, Silas, some other prisoners, who are also bound and the guard? Not really...and we already know the guard had no hand in helping them get free initially.

Like I said, all things considered, I think it's more logical to just read 'earthquake' when it says 'earthquake'.

Have you ever seen an earthquake in water?

To be consistent, when Jesus was sleep in the bottom of the boat, there was an earthquake? Same Greek word, but it is not possible to cause an earthquake in water. An earthquake requires a solid strata for it to occur in.

However, Great turmoil in the sea during a storm is often the case when waves caused a the storm produce standing waves as the reflected waves move cross the sea. It is one of the problems that must be looked for when crossing a bar a standing wave that can swamp a boat. That was what the disciples in the boat were afraid off.

But you are entitled to believe that seismos is always translated as Earthquake wherever it is found in the NT and it makes perfect sense wherever it is found.

Shalom

 

[Naomi25]

Have you ever seen an earthquake in water?

To be consistent, when Jesus was sleep in the bottom of the boat, there was an earthquake? Same Greek word, but it is not possible to cause an earthquake in water. An earthquake requires a solid strata for it to occur in.

However, Great turmoil in the sea during a storm is often the case when waves caused a the storm produce standing waves as the reflected waves move cross the sea. It is one of the problems that must be looked for when crossing a bar a standing wave that can swamp a boat. That was what the disciples in the boat were afraid off.

But you are entitled to believe that seismos is always translated as Earthquake wherever it is found in the NT and it makes perfect sense wherever it is found.

Shalom

See, this is where we'd use our reasoning, and the interpretive variation in the text would allow for such reasoning. If we are upon land, what would we suppose it would be if a 'great shaking' occured? An earthquake, right? If we were upon water? In a boat? A storm, yes?
But I'll tell you what my first thought WOULDN'T be in both those occasions: "civil unrest is making my surroundings shake".
Just sayin'.

 

[Jay Ross]

See, this is where we'd use our reasoning, and the interpretive variation in the text would allow for such reasoning. If we are upon land, what would we suppose it would be if a 'great shaking' occured? An earthquake, right? If we were upon water? In a boat? A storm, yes?
But I'll tell you what my first thought WOULDN'T be in both those occasions: "civil unrest is making my surroundings shake".
Just sayin'.

And civil unrest causes turmoil among the people. There is always great turmoil among the people when there is no understanding of the driving forces that is causing the events to unfold. If you saw an angel coming down from heaven to roll a stone away from the opening of a tomb that you were guarding, would that be considered to be civil unrest, or just great turmoil in my spirit while the supernatural is occurring in front of me.

But for me, I have never been involved in a conflict where a bombardment from above is happening, but I can imagine the turmoil of the people caught up in it.

But you are welcome to hold to your views if they reflect your ability to reason what is being said in the scriptures with poetic imagery.

Shalom

 

[Naomi25]

And civil unrest causes turmoil among the people. There is always great turmoil among the people when there is no understanding of the driving forces that is causing the events to unfold. If you saw an angel coming down from heaven to roll a stone away from the opening of a tomb that you were guarding, would that be considered to be civil unrest, or just great turmoil in my spirit while the supernatural is occurring in front of me.

But for me, I have never been involved in a conflict where a bombardment from above is happening, but I can imagine the turmoil of the people caught up in it.

But you are welcome to hold to your views if they reflect your ability to reason what is being said in the scriptures with poetic imagery.

Shalom

Yep...I think on this we'll have to agree to disagree!