A person has a choice as to whom he wishes to make sovereign in his life. God does not force Himself on people...not in this age.
Of course God can intervene....or not. THAT is God's sovereignty at work.
propitiation by His blood, through faith
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A person has a choice as to whom he wishes to make sovereign in his life. God does not force Himself on people...not in this age.
Of course God can intervene....or not. THAT is God's sovereignty at work.
A person has a choice as to whom he wishes to make sovereign in his life. God does not force Himself on people...not in this age.
Of course God can intervene....or not. THAT is God's sovereignty at work.
Mark 4:11-12 "He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"
bbyrd009
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that is all true enough, but i reject the insinuation that your works will not be judged, and not only that, only your works
Works do not save, they are proof of a saved lifestyle.
I would agree...proof is in the pudding...Fruits.
Only false religion and false Christianity.
There is also such a thing as "pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father" (James 1:27).
And that religion is not religious. It does good works. False religion claims things about God that aren't true based on a very human interpretation of the bible. That's the part you aren't getting.
We will let others judge as to who has been providing "a very human interpretation of the Bible". You are the one generally presenting false interpretations of very basic Gospel truths.
You should say..."what is presently perceived as a false interpretation by us humans"....then you could leave some wiggle room if you never got with the truth...or to get with it.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
I’m not certain whether you are saying you are unfamiliar with the 1000 year reign of Christ or with the idea that children (as well as all mankind) will in the next age be resurrected and brought to the knowledge of the truth, that each might decide for themselves whether to accept the salvation provided in Christ and fully submit themselves to the New World Order, The Kingdom of God and His Christ whose work it will be to restore to mankind all that was lost in father Adam, i.e. human perfection, dominion of the earth and most importantly everlasting life.
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; who will have (unconditionally) ALL MEN to be saved (from the original Adamic curse), and to come unto an accurate knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom FOR ALL, to be testified in due time.” (1 Tim 2:3-6)
Here is a salvation, which is clearly unconditional and depends alone on the will of God; it is NOT however an eternal salvation, it is merely a salvation or redemption from the original Adamic curse, which resides upon ALL.
Just as the original sentence came upon ALL mankind irregardless of their own personal preferences (i.e. we were born in sin), so too the “free gift”, salvation from the Adamic curse, sentence comes to ALL mankind once again irregardless to their own preferences, it is the grace (unmerited favor) of God.
The right to life provided by the ransom sacrifice of Christ once understood (thus the need to be brought to the knowledge of the truth) is obtainable only upon the basis of acceptance and obedience.
Isa 26:9 declares that when God’s judgments are abroad in the earth, the inhabitants will learn righteousness. This educational program is essential if the world of mankind is to have a full opportunity to know the Lord and to know his will concerning them. In the future judgment day the people will not be judged in their ignorance but upon the basis of an understanding of the provisions of divine grace made for them through Christ' RANSOM.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
Some appear to be confused about this “age of accountability”, supposing it to mean that all children under a certain age are automatically saved regardless of their faith or knowledge of the Lord.
According to the scriptures this only applies to those children in which one or both of the parents are believers.
“And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and (or vice versa) the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.” 1 Cor 7:13, 14
In other words if at least one or the other parent is consecrated to the Lord, the child is counted as belonging to that parent, and God's blessing will follow. This does not mean that he will take them to heaven. It simply means that they will be favored, that the affairs of their life will be overruled for good to them, but the will of the child remains. God never encroaches on the will of any of his creatures. That child, so long as it is without a will of its own, so long as it is immature in judgment, will be under divine supervision.
When the child reaches the age of accountability or discretion, an age wherewith he or she is able to think on their own, to make their own decisions then whether or not they retain the special favor of God will be up to them alone, whether or not they themselves profess faith in Christ.
I am familiar with Christ's 1000 year reign on this earth, from Jerusalem. I was just wondering if you had any scripture where it states: children and all mankind will be on this earth after being ressurected.
The question would be, when would the 1000 year reign take place, and who would be living there? I have heard it will be the tribulation saints who were saved and martyrs for their faith in Christ. I have heard it would be the Jews...so. Just wondered if you had any verses.
Sry all-think I just derailed 
Yes, God gave each of us dominion over ourselves, but He really wants us to choose to give the dominion back to Him. Most people never do and suffer the consequences. What will happen to those try to stand in the middle?A person has a choice as to whom he wishes to make sovereign in his life. God does not force Himself on people...not in this age.
Of course God can intervene....or not. THAT is God's sovereignty at work.
"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16
bbyrd009
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if you rectify this it might help
a little
i think the vv on ignorance should prolly be considered too
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Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
I am familiar with Christ's 1000 year reign on this earth, from Jerusalem. I was just wondering if you had any scripture where it states: children and all mankind will be on this earth after being resurrected.
The question would be, when would the 1000 year reign take place, and who would be living there? I have heard it will be the tribulation saints who were saved and martyrs for their faith in Christ. I have heard it would be the Jews...so. Just wondered if you had any verses.
I will attempt to answer your query, but alas it will require three parts as you must know by now that I like to be through in my responses especially in regards to important items.
You ask: I was just wondering if you had any scripture where it states: children and all mankind will be on this earth after being resurrected.
In Reply, Where exactly did you imagine mankind would be following the resurrection? I only ask this because I know many have been taught all manner of foolishness respecting what is to become of the earth, with some suggesting it will be burned up later to be replaced by a new earth.
The scriptures to the contrary assure us that the earth abides forever (Eccl 1:4), that it is not the literal earth which is to be burned up in the great time of trouble (2 Pet 3:7, 10), but rather symbolic earth, the present social order of things, this present evil world (or age).
“Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool…” Isa 66:1 (See Matt 5:35 also), and “…I will make the place of my feet glorious.” (Isa 60:13) Here the Lord refers to the Kingdom to come when He shall establish righteousness throughout the earth.) “The heavens, even the heavens, are the Lord’s: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.” Psa 115:16
In conjunction with the promise to make the place of His feet glorious He has promised that in the times of restitution to come He will restore all things (Acts 3:19-21).
“For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost”. (Luke 19:10)
“The words lost and saved have a common significance known to all: A thing lost is a thing once possessed, and a thing saved is a thing once possessed and then lost and finally recovered. Jesus said the thing he came to save was the thing that men had lost; and the implication is that since he had come to save the thing lost, men were unable to save it for themselves, which experience and many scriptures clearly prove.
Now if we can determine just what man lost, we will know just what Jesus came to save. Man could not lose what he never had. Adam, who stood as the representative of our race, had a perfect human organism, and a right to everlasting continuance of life, on condition of obedience to God. He was privileged to enjoy all the delights of his Eden home, and the communion and blessings of God; in short, all the privileges that everlasting life under perfect human conditions is capable of enjoying and looking forward to.
All this Adam lost through sin, both for himself and his posterity. Home, happiness, communion with God, health, and life itself, were lost. Consequently, mankind lies in utter wreck and ruin, dead and dying. In having lost his right to life he fell under the dominion of death, whose successive steps of misery, depravity, sickness and pain, end in total extinction of being, from which he can never recover himself.
Jesus came then to save and restore that which was lost; to restore man to his original (human) perfection, and to communion with God, to give him back his paradise restored, and all the pleasing prospects of future blessings that accumulating ages can bestow, and that the powers of perfect humanity will be capable of enjoying.
What! Does someone say, ‘Is so much implied in those words of our Lord?’
Yes; this is one way in which our Lord foretold the restitution of all things. All this is implied in the word saved. Think of it; could the words mean less than this? Certainly not; and, from this and many other scriptures, we have learned to trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe. (1 Tim. 4:10). There is a special salvation for some, as well as a general salvation for all men, as Paul here intimates, but we are not considering the special salvation now.
In the above text (Luke 19:10) Jesus was speaking of the general salvation of all men--the saving of that which was lost. For God "will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4) When men are actually saved, their restored existence will be as at first, dependent on obedience for its continuance, which obedience will be easy and productive of constant happiness when evil and temptation are fully removed, and the great deceiver and tempter is bound and finally destroyed, and when the law of God is written in their hearts. (Jer. 31:33).” R603
I will continue addressing your thoughts with my next post.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
You asked: when is the 1000 year reign to take place and who would be living there? I have heard it will be the tribulation saints who were saved and martyrs for their faith in Christ. I have heard it would be the Jews.
In Reply, When is the 1000 year reign?
According to the True Bible Chronology as well as several collaborating prophecies most notably the Jubilee Prophecy, Daniel’s prophecy of the 1335 Days, and the Jewish “Double” (1845 years), the 1000 year reign (or millennial day) of the Lord has already begun we are living in the first part of it. It is a time for judgement, and as the Lord so stated, judgement begins at the house of God (1 Pet 4:17).
When it states, that judgment begins with the “house of God”, we must understand that both the true house, and the false house have existed together for most of these many centuries but, only the true house has been under judgment sense its conception, It began with the Head of the “house of God,” with our Lord Jesus Christ, who was tempted (tried) in all points like as are we (Heb 2:18), but now at the end of the age the time has come to separate the true and the false Christian, the wheat and the tares in the nominal (professing) church. This work is even now taking place completely unknown by either the world or the nominally professing church.
The first thing to be judged and condemned was the false house,
Having reached the end of the age, the harvest, it is time for the judgement of the nominal professing Church, the organization, NOT the individual members, the individual members are only being judge so far as to separate the true, (the wheat), from the false, (the tares). The false are only being judge as a system; this is not the time for their individual judgment that will come later in the “appointed day”, for now judgment has come upon the system, “Babylon the Great”.
“Fear God and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.” Rev 14:7
This judgment has already taken place, the final decision has been rendered, and thus the sentence:
“Thou have been weighed in the balances, and have been found wanting…” Dan 5:27
“Behold, thy house is left unto you desolate.” Matt 23:38
“…Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” Rev 18: 2-4
As for the judgement of the individuals who make up this great system as well as the rest of the world, “…God… hath appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath risen him from the dead.” Acts 17:31
Although this “day” (or period of time) takes place in the millennial day it is in fact a separate and distinctive time period or work. The forepart of the millennial day, "the great Day of his Wrath" will see the destruction of the present order of things in the great time of trouble soon to come, the latter part when the present order has been dissolved will see the establishment of the Mediatorial reign, the “appointed day” or period of time in which Christ will judge (try, test) the world in righteousness.
“This signifies a second judgment and thus implies that the sentence of the first judgment is to be set aside. The sentence of the first judgment was death, extinction, and it has been set aside by the great ransom sacrifice of Christ; and now, as a consequence of the setting aside of that first sentence upon man, all mankind is to be granted another judgment, that is, another trial, another opportunity to see to what extent past experiences have been profitable, and which under the divine direction and corrections will learn righteousness so heartily and so thoroughly as to pass divine inspection as worthy of life eternal.”
In Reply, When is the 1000 year reign?
According to the True Bible Chronology as well as several collaborating prophecies most notably the Jubilee Prophecy, Daniel’s prophecy of the 1335 Days, and the Jewish “Double” (1845 years), the 1000 year reign (or millennial day) of the Lord has already begun we are living in the first part of it. It is a time for judgement, and as the Lord so stated, judgement begins at the house of God (1 Pet 4:17).
When it states, that judgment begins with the “house of God”, we must understand that both the true house, and the false house have existed together for most of these many centuries but, only the true house has been under judgment sense its conception, It began with the Head of the “house of God,” with our Lord Jesus Christ, who was tempted (tried) in all points like as are we (Heb 2:18), but now at the end of the age the time has come to separate the true and the false Christian, the wheat and the tares in the nominal (professing) church. This work is even now taking place completely unknown by either the world or the nominally professing church.
The first thing to be judged and condemned was the false house,
Having reached the end of the age, the harvest, it is time for the judgement of the nominal professing Church, the organization, NOT the individual members, the individual members are only being judge so far as to separate the true, (the wheat), from the false, (the tares). The false are only being judge as a system; this is not the time for their individual judgment that will come later in the “appointed day”, for now judgment has come upon the system, “Babylon the Great”.
“Fear God and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.” Rev 14:7
This judgment has already taken place, the final decision has been rendered, and thus the sentence:
“Thou have been weighed in the balances, and have been found wanting…” Dan 5:27
“Behold, thy house is left unto you desolate.” Matt 23:38
“…Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” Rev 18: 2-4
As for the judgement of the individuals who make up this great system as well as the rest of the world, “…God… hath appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath risen him from the dead.” Acts 17:31
Although this “day” (or period of time) takes place in the millennial day it is in fact a separate and distinctive time period or work. The forepart of the millennial day, "the great Day of his Wrath" will see the destruction of the present order of things in the great time of trouble soon to come, the latter part when the present order has been dissolved will see the establishment of the Mediatorial reign, the “appointed day” or period of time in which Christ will judge (try, test) the world in righteousness.
“This signifies a second judgment and thus implies that the sentence of the first judgment is to be set aside. The sentence of the first judgment was death, extinction, and it has been set aside by the great ransom sacrifice of Christ; and now, as a consequence of the setting aside of that first sentence upon man, all mankind is to be granted another judgment, that is, another trial, another opportunity to see to what extent past experiences have been profitable, and which under the divine direction and corrections will learn righteousness so heartily and so thoroughly as to pass divine inspection as worthy of life eternal.”
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
You state: in regards to the 1000 year reign and who will be living there, ‘I have heard it will be the tribulation saints who were saved and martyrs for their faith in Christ. I have heard it would be the Jews.
In reply, those who will be living in the millennial age are all who have not yet received their judgement (krisis: trial).
Presently the only ones on trial for life or death are the spirit begotten, we speak here only of the fully consecrated, those in covenant relationship with the Father, a “covenant by sacrifice” (Psa 50:5; Rom 12:1), not the mere nominally professing Christian, whom in general make up the vast majority of the professing church.
The world, which includes all the heathen, non-believers as well as all the nominal believers (those not fully consecrated) will take their part in the “resurrection of judgment” (John 5: 29)
Will the Jews be there? Most certainly for they will make up the nucleus of the earthy phase of the kingdom. Now of course this excludes those Jews who converted to Christianity and having fully consecrated themselves to the Lord were spirit begotten.
“It shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain [Kingdom] of the Lord’s house [the spiritual kingdom] shall be established in the top of the mountains [as a Kingdom over-topping or overruling all kingdoms], and shall be exalted above the hills [the highest peaks]; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain [Kingdom] of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths. For out of Zion [the spiritual phase of the Kingdom — the glorified Christ, head and body] shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem [the seat of the earthly representative government in the hands of the “Princes”]. Micah 4:1, 2; Isa 45:16
Jerusalem is destine to become the capital of the world, and everyone who wishes to be granted life eternal must become a citizen, an Israelite indeed, a man of Israel, the chosen nation, for the New Covenant arrangement is made with this nation and this nation alone (See Jer 31:31-33), there will be no other nations, for the former things will have passed away. Yes there will be nations, i.e. peoples of various lands, but they will no longer be distinguish by their former titles, such as Americans, Russians, Mexicans, Japanese and etc. for they will all be of one nation, one people, the people of God.
Concerning the future glory of the earthly phase of the kingdom as represented in Jerusalem, the prophets speak in glowing terms, saying: “Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem; for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.” “Behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.” “Rejoice ye with Jerusalem and be glad with her . . . that ye may be delighted with the abundance of her glory; for saith the Lord, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream.”
The scriptures make the predominance of Israel and Jerusalem its capital abundantly clear. (Compare Isa 2:3; 24:23; 27:13; 52:9; 62:7; 65:18; 66:10-12; Psa 68:29; 99:5; Joel 3:16,17; Micah 4:2; Zech 14:8, 9, 17).
Early in the new order of things the Lord will resurrect the faithful of the past (i.e. the Ancient Worthies) these will be the FIRST FRUITS of the Earthly Phase of the kingdom, “…princes in all the earth…” (Psa 45:16) their resurrection although not a resurrection to a change of nature shall still be a resurrection of LIFE, (in contrast with that of the resurrection of judgement), that is they will be resurrected completely up out of death conditions into perfection of life conditions. These having been approved of God, "having obtained a good report"--their trial having already taken place, it will be unnecessary that their restitution out of death and into life should be a gradual work. Their shortcomings went before to judgment (1 Tim 5:24). Their resurrection, therefore, will be an instantaneous one to human perfection.
These will be the Lords VISIBLE earthly representatives, judges and teachers of the new order. “And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counselors as at the beginning: afterward thou shall be called, The City of Righteousness, the Faithful City. Zion shall be redeemed with judgment and her converts with righteousness.” (Isa 1:26, 27)
As for the tribulation saints, no they will not be a part of the earthly kingdom, but that’s another subject for another time.
In reply, those who will be living in the millennial age are all who have not yet received their judgement (krisis: trial).
Presently the only ones on trial for life or death are the spirit begotten, we speak here only of the fully consecrated, those in covenant relationship with the Father, a “covenant by sacrifice” (Psa 50:5; Rom 12:1), not the mere nominally professing Christian, whom in general make up the vast majority of the professing church.
The world, which includes all the heathen, non-believers as well as all the nominal believers (those not fully consecrated) will take their part in the “resurrection of judgment” (John 5: 29)
Will the Jews be there? Most certainly for they will make up the nucleus of the earthy phase of the kingdom. Now of course this excludes those Jews who converted to Christianity and having fully consecrated themselves to the Lord were spirit begotten.
“It shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain [Kingdom] of the Lord’s house [the spiritual kingdom] shall be established in the top of the mountains [as a Kingdom over-topping or overruling all kingdoms], and shall be exalted above the hills [the highest peaks]; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain [Kingdom] of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths. For out of Zion [the spiritual phase of the Kingdom — the glorified Christ, head and body] shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem [the seat of the earthly representative government in the hands of the “Princes”]. Micah 4:1, 2; Isa 45:16
Jerusalem is destine to become the capital of the world, and everyone who wishes to be granted life eternal must become a citizen, an Israelite indeed, a man of Israel, the chosen nation, for the New Covenant arrangement is made with this nation and this nation alone (See Jer 31:31-33), there will be no other nations, for the former things will have passed away. Yes there will be nations, i.e. peoples of various lands, but they will no longer be distinguish by their former titles, such as Americans, Russians, Mexicans, Japanese and etc. for they will all be of one nation, one people, the people of God.
Concerning the future glory of the earthly phase of the kingdom as represented in Jerusalem, the prophets speak in glowing terms, saying: “Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem; for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.” “Behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.” “Rejoice ye with Jerusalem and be glad with her . . . that ye may be delighted with the abundance of her glory; for saith the Lord, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream.”
The scriptures make the predominance of Israel and Jerusalem its capital abundantly clear. (Compare Isa 2:3; 24:23; 27:13; 52:9; 62:7; 65:18; 66:10-12; Psa 68:29; 99:5; Joel 3:16,17; Micah 4:2; Zech 14:8, 9, 17).
Early in the new order of things the Lord will resurrect the faithful of the past (i.e. the Ancient Worthies) these will be the FIRST FRUITS of the Earthly Phase of the kingdom, “…princes in all the earth…” (Psa 45:16) their resurrection although not a resurrection to a change of nature shall still be a resurrection of LIFE, (in contrast with that of the resurrection of judgement), that is they will be resurrected completely up out of death conditions into perfection of life conditions. These having been approved of God, "having obtained a good report"--their trial having already taken place, it will be unnecessary that their restitution out of death and into life should be a gradual work. Their shortcomings went before to judgment (1 Tim 5:24). Their resurrection, therefore, will be an instantaneous one to human perfection.
These will be the Lords VISIBLE earthly representatives, judges and teachers of the new order. “And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counselors as at the beginning: afterward thou shall be called, The City of Righteousness, the Faithful City. Zion shall be redeemed with judgment and her converts with righteousness.” (Isa 1:26, 27)
As for the tribulation saints, no they will not be a part of the earthly kingdom, but that’s another subject for another time.
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