Protestant Reformation

[Foreigner]

I didn't imply that what happened in the Catholic church was presently happening in the Protestant church.

-- When I asked if we need to again provide a litany of things that happened under the Catholic church in the past, your complete reply was, "Not many have changed with the Protestant church,"

Present tense. If you wish to correct that statement, now would be the perfect time.




I have no idea who 03Cobra is. If you choose not to believe that, simply send a message to Hammerstone and he could confirm, via IP address or some other method, that the two of us have nothing to do with each other.

 

[Butch5]

-- When I asked if we need to again provide a litany of things that happened under the Catholic church in the past, your complete reply was, "Not many have changed with the Protestant church,"

Present tense. If you wish to correct that statement, now would be the perfect time.




I have no idea who 03Cobra is. If you choose not to believe that, simply send a message to Hammerstone and he could confirm, via IP address or some other method, that the two of us have nothing to do with each other.

So where in that Statement did I say that those things were presently happening. I said not many have changed with the Protestant church. There is nothing in that statement that implies those things are happening now. It simply implies that to this point in time not much has changed between the two.

 

[Foreigner]

So where in that Statement did I say that those things were presently happening. I said not many have changed with the Protestant church. There is nothing in that statement that implies those things are happening now. It simply implies that to this point in time not much has changed between the two.

-- I can't type any slower. When I asked if it was really necessary to bring up all the things that have happened in the past in the Catholic church, yout complete answer was, "Not many have changed with the Protestant church,"

How is that not a present tense statement?

 

[Butch5]

-- I can't type any slower. When I asked if it was really necessary to bring up all the things that have happened in the past in the Catholic church, yout complete answer was, "Not many have changed with the Protestant church,"

How is that not a present tense statement?

The statement is present tense, I didn't however say those things were happening now. Enough of the smoke screen, it doesn't change the issue, the history of the Protestants is not all the different than the Catholics. So, I'll ask again, what is the great benefit?

 

[rockytopva]

The statement is present tense, I didn't however say those things were happening now. Enough of the smoke screen, it doesn't change the issue, the history of the Protestants is not all the different than the Catholics. So, I'll ask again, what is the great benefit?

Remember (referring to my earlier post) there were issues with the Sardisian (protestant) church as well as the Thyatirean (catholic). Just because you jumped ship does not crown you with a crown of righteousness. And we have some good Catholics on this board so easy on the Catholics... And this is not a denominational (Sardisean) board!

 

[aspen]

Was it a move toward truth, or a step in the wrong direction?

As a protestant I beleif it was ment at first to be both a revival and reformation for the Catholic church. Luther never intended to form a new branch of Christianity it was meant to change and correct false doctrine and practices in the catholic church. But since the Catholic church did not want to change it killed and persecuted many protestants in result starting a new branch of Christianity! It reminds me of main strean Judaism and Christianity!

What are your thoughts?

It was the first step towards separation of church and state. As far as reform - it replace existing tradition with new tradition, while teaching that religion and tradition is bad. I think it would actually be more accurate to call it the Protestant Replacement.

 

[Butch5]

Remember (referring to my earlier post) there were issues with the Sardisian (protestant) church as well as the Thyatirean (catholic). Just because you jumped ship does not crown you with a crown of righteousness. And we have some good Catholics on this board so easy on the Catholics... And this is not a denominational (Sardisean) board!

I don't buy the church age idea, but I was not being hard on the Catholic church. I was simply pointing out the there was not this great return to Biblical doctrine that many seem to think came out of the Reformation. I actually like the way Aspen put it. It should have been called the Protestant replacement.

And I surely have not implied any righteousness by abandoning Reformed theology.

 

[aspen]

Thank you for your post!
I am Protestant, in fact a Reformed Baptist. I am sorry to hear you say that not much has changed with the Protestant Church. While Christ preached in Matthew 13 that there would be wheat and tares in the Kingdom of Heaven, and that ALL branches of the Church would be contaminated by bad doctrines, I believe that the Protestant Church has a better grip on the New Testament and the Teachings of Christ than any other group, else I would be something different.
Why am I a Protestant?
1)Because of the Word of God. The Bible was held as a monopoly by the Jews and the Hebrew speaking world until the First Century AD, when it was taken over by the Romans and their monopoly on Latin. Jerome and others produced a fairly accurate translation of the Old and New Testament, but they translated it into Latin. Through the years, small portions of the Word of God were translated into French, German, and that most heretical tongue,ENGLISH! Eventually, Tyndale paid for his life by translating the Bible, Wycliffe almost did, and many other Protestant's gave their life to propigate and protect the Book. Even arch-conservatives like Bishop Cranmer and other Anglicans were burnt alive at the stake for their beliefs. ANY GROUP OF MEN AND WOMEN THAT BELIEVE STRONGLY ENOUGH IN GOD'S BOOK TO BE MARTYRED BY BEING BURNT TO DEATH ,I'M GONNA LISTEN TO AND ASSOCIATE WITH.
2)Because of the doctrine of election. I was a Baptist for all my life, and have only become Reformed in the last year. I had trouble with the doctrine of election, but now I see the true majesty and sovereignity of God and His Right to choose whomever He Will to spend eternity with Him. "Whosoever will may come", but you and I and God know that "most won't". Those that God draws to Himself are those that will choose Him, because He provides the Grace through the Holy Spirit to show them that they are lost,Hell-bound,and in need of a Saviour.They are shown,by the Spirit, the absolute beauty and desirability of Christ, and the foul depravity of the world. And they choose Christ. "But after the kindness (another word for "grace") and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His Mercy He saved us." Titus 3:4&5 His grace placed Jesus and His Merit,Worth,Beauty,Holiness,Loveliness between a Holy God demanding perfection and a wretched man."Herein is our love made perfect,that we may have boldness in the Day of Judgement: because as He is,so are we in the world." I John 4:17 He took my place on the Cross, and takes my place in my stead, having undergone my wrath for me.My beloved friend, it is not I that chose Christ! That is the LAST thing a person would do. We all consider ourselves "good enough".But God Almighty drew us to Himself."The Lord hath appeared of old unto me,saying,yea,I have loved thee with an everlasting love;therefore with loving kindness have I drawn thee." Jeremiah 31:3 And because of election I am chosen of God for Eternity.. And because Protestants, by and large, teach and preach election, I am a protestant.

Julian of York
Protestant




I am no longer a Protestant (I was in a Reformed Tradition, but I really never believed Reformed theology) because:


[font="tahoma][color="#000080"]1. I believe the Reformation misfired - I realized we are all still basically Catholic, yet many Protestants spent their lives denying their Catholicity rather than practicing their sanctification. I enjoy going to Mass where I can learn about living out my faith instead of fighting for my identity.[/color][/font]
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[font="tahoma][color="#000080"]2. Sola scriptura is an oxymoron. It was difficult for me to reject the Catholic Church, but place all my authority in the Bible alone, when it was assembled and defended by the Catholic Church, especially when I was taught so many extra-biblical ideas, which I was also taught to reject. Mercy![/color][/font]
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[font="tahoma][color="#000080"]3. I believe in freewill - I reject the idea that God created people for Hell. I reject the idea that God created people for Heaven. It is funny to me that many Reformed folks are the loudest about accusing groups they disagree with of "taking the power away from Christ's sacrifice on the Cross" when, in fact, their view of predestination requires no sacrifice at all.[/color][/font]
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[font="tahoma][color="#000080"]4. Finally, I am Catholic because no where else have I found the depth of wisdom or the extent of mature, Christian spirituality.[/color][/font]
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[font="tahoma][color="#000080"]blessings[/color][/font]

 

[HammerStone]

Wow, I'm more than a little surprised by the general tone in this thread.

Of course the Reformation was a positive development in Christianity. We can pick and choose any number of bad things about any one denomination; let's just not get started on the Catholic side of things because we all know the rampant troubles - acknowledge or unacknowledged that plague the church to this day. However, the proliferation of Bibles and thought outside of the hierarchy is a good thing; I think the church of that era had too much of a grip on what the common folks were told. Although several members here have tried (rather dishonestly) to portray it as a total movement of the elite - which is an absolute joke because at several points in time absolutely no one wielded more elite wordly power and influence than the pope himself - the Reformation profoundly influenced the world and our faith. Part of the reason the Catholic Church is the way it is today is because it had to respond to the Reformation. The church does not live in a vaccum, Catholics included.

At the end of the day, no church nor any many will speak for you.

I Corinthians 4:15
Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

 

[rockytopva]

Of course the Reformation was a positive development in Christianity.

The greatest development of which was the placing of the bible in the hands of the common man.

 

[lawrance]

Was it a move toward truth, or a step in the wrong direction?

As a protestant I beleif it was ment at first to be both a revival and reformation for the Catholic church. Luther never intended to form a new branch of Christianity it was meant to change and correct false doctrine and practices in the catholic church. But since the Catholic church did not want to change it killed and persecuted many protestants in result starting a new branch of Christianity! It reminds me of main strean Judaism and Christianity!

What are your thoughts?

I think it was more like political interference of kings and princes along with wealthy people struggling for there own personal causes and it had noting to really do with God, it was all the work of the Devil, who rules this world.

The Catholic Church does admit today of what they see was wrong with what went on in the past history.

Some people carry on with what was to much and are to narrow minded to look mainly to the future.

I don't look at people being a denomination but mainly in their growth in the Lord, as we all can grow and never will stop as long as we are in the Lord.

The Spirit is the Spirit and the worldly are worldly.
I think if we put the Spirit of the Lord first and foremost in everything we do, then everything other in the world will just fall into place like clock work.
Anything that we do that is not in Christ is in vain.

I believe hatred has no place in Christ but is a work of the Devil.