QUESTION 1 for YOU - IF YOU BELIEVE JESUS is GOD

[StanJ]

Are you saying that the subject of the Lord Jesus and Peter's conversation was the Apostle John? Are you certain?

It is a common belief amongst scholars and Purity that John is the disciple who leaned back against the chest of Jesus, and that he also wrote the Book of John.

Unfortunately, most scholars, if not all and Purity are wrong.

HINT: Search the Scripture for the disciple (not an apostle) whom Jesus loved and you will have found also the writer of the Book of John. I'm aware that the word apostles is also translated as disciples, I'm merely suggesting that the disciple whom Jesus loved was not an apostle.

John 21:23
This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

GOING BACK TO THE OP

Jesus does not have to prove He is God! The Father and the Bible testified to that. I have laid down many, many Scripture texts to Nothead in another thread, to prove Jesus' deity, and likewise, those who posted here.

You say God is ONE (numerically) SHEMA. How then do you reconcile the Bible verses below?

1John 5:5-8
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water
and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood:
and these three agree in one.

Matthew 28:19
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (NOT NAMES) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

To God Be The Glory

Have to agree with you...the book of John was written by Lazarus as HE is the only one the NT says that Jesus loved. The book of John does NOT identify John as it's author, and it's style is much more intimate than John's style is in his epistles and Revelation.
Oh, BTW, most scholars DON'T agree on who wrote John just as MOST don't agree on who wrote Hebrews.

 

[Madad21]

There is only one God

1 Corinthians 8:4 (NKJV)
Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one.

Isaiah 43:10 (NKJV)
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.

Isaiah 44:6 (NKJV)
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.


Jehovah is Mighty God

Isaiah 10:20-21 (YLT)
And it hath come to pass, in that day, The remnant of Israel,
And the escaped of the house of Jacob,
Do not add any more to lean on its smiter,
And have leant on Jehovah,
The Holy One of Israel, in truth.
A remnant returneth -- a remnant of Jacob, Unto the Mighty God.

Isaiah 10:20-21 (NWT) JW Bible Arian Bible
In that day those remaining of Israel
And the survivors of the house of Jacob
Will no longer support themselves on the one who struck them;+
But they will support themselves on Jehovah,
The Holy One of Israel, with faithfulness.
21 Only a remnant will return,
The remnant of Jacob, to the Mighty God. ( 'el gibbowr )


Who is Jesus?

Isaiah 9:6 (NKJV)
For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, ( 'el gibbowr )
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6 (NWT) JW Bible Arian Bible
For a child has been born to us,
A son has been given to us;
And the rulership* will rest on his shoulder.
His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, ( 'el gibbowr )
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[shturt678]

Are you saying that the subject of the Lord Jesus and Peter's conversation was the Apostle John? Are you certain?

It is a common belief amongst scholars and Purity that John is the disciple who leaned back against the chest of Jesus, and that he also wrote the Book of John.

Unfortunately, most scholars, if not all and Purity are wrong.

HINT: Search the Scripture for the disciple (not an apostle) whom Jesus loved and you will have found also the writer of the Book of John. I'm aware that the word apostles is also translated as disciples, I'm merely suggesting that the disciple whom Jesus loved was not an apostle.

John 21:23
This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

GOING BACK TO THE OP

Jesus does not have to prove He is God! The Father and the Bible testified to that. I have laid down many, many Scripture texts to Nothead in another thread, to prove Jesus' deity, and likewise, those who posted here.

You say God is ONE (numerically) SHEMA. How then do you reconcile the Bible verses below?

1John 5:5-8
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water
and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood:
and these three agree in one.

Matthew 28:19
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (NOT NAMES) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

To God Be The Glory

Good enough answer for me - Amen!

Old Jack

 

[Madad21]

Matthew 28:19
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (NOT NAMES) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

Wow! I never noticed that before

 

[Floyd]

Wow! I never noticed that before

This is where the anti-Trinitarians show their error.
In the Millennial "His Name shall be one"; Zech.14:9; which is confirmation of the "Shema"; (Ehad); Deut.6:4; and the profound Truth of the "compound entity"!
The heretics on this Board are in extreme danger by denying this profound Truth; and playing with the Word of God!
Satan wants exactly what you are doing!
Floyd.

 

[Pelaides]

How can anyone debate with you man?
You make these silly fallacious statements and then run away all pleased with yourself as if have somehow stumped us, it truly is moronic my friend.
I offered to debate with you on scripture concerning the identity of Christ I even provided the link, but you turned me down.
So whos running away from you?

I have provided purity with answers to all his arguments and I have received very few back, go back through the thread and see for yourself, there is nothing he has said that has gone unchallenged, but the same cannot be said for him, Ive gotten tired of putting in the effort, just for him to change the subject everytime it gets hard.

Im sorry palaide but you give very little thought to your statements, we have supplied you with the answers to all your foolish challenges but you just continue to to come up with more statements, you like a guy that just shouts from his chair with his fingers in his ears. This is why I say its annoying.

I tell you what palaide, you can go ahead and claim some sort of lame victory, but as far as Im concerned until you can hold down a reasonable argument you stupidity will go ignorred by me.

I am being called a moron by an individual with a donkey for an avatar.The only scripture you supplied that had any weight to it was the verse in which Jesus declared he was around before Abraham.I have always interpreted this as the Holy Spirit speaking through Jesus.and because the Holy Spirit is an extension of God,Yes God was here before abraham.

Have to agree with you...the book of John was written by Lazarus as HE is the only one the NT says that Jesus loved. The book of John does NOT identify John as it's author, and it's style is much more intimate than John's style is in his epistles and Revelation.
Oh, BTW, most scholars DON'T agree on who wrote John just as MOST don't agree on who wrote Hebrews.

The book of John was written by Lazarus?

This is where the anti-Trinitarians show their error.
In the Millennial "His Name shall be one"; Zech.14:9; which is confirmation of the "Shema"; (Ehad); Deut.6:4; and the profound Truth of the "compound entity"!
The heretics on this Board are in extreme danger by denying this profound Truth; and playing with the Word of God!
Satan wants exactly what you are doing!
Floyd.

I myself am not against the Trinity,but I do not believe Jesus is Gods equal.

 

[Floyd]

Floyd, on 04 Jun 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

This is where the anti-Trinitarians show their error.
In the Millennial "His Name shall be one"; Zech.14:9; which is confirmation of the "Shema"; (Ehad); Deut.6:4; and the profound Truth of the "compound entity"!
The heretics on this Board are in extreme danger by denying this profound Truth; and playing with the Word of God!
Satan wants exactly what you are doing!
Floyd.

I myself am not against the Trinity,but I do not believe Jesus is Gods equal.



Well P. this IMO, is where there is massive misunderstanding; which IMO, has led to miss-teaching.
Christ; for Service, and obedience to His Father "took on the form of a servant"; for the explicit purpose of becoming the anti-thesis to the "first Adam".
That service, to become the "second Adam"; which countered Satan's action with Eve/Adam!
To see this great "sacrifice" of Self by God the Father in the Son; is to begin to see the great wonder of the greatest gift "to die for a friend"; which God in Christ did!!!

When this is seen (only dimly by us in the flesh); it is the beginning of true wisdom (Proverbs); and we are never the same again afterwards!!!

We then; like the great apostle Paul, go on in life to know more and more of our Lord; but still in our flesh, struggling as Paul did!

But; we are then "sealed in heavenly places"; until the completion; when He will call His Body to Him; "and thus shall we ever be with the Lord"!

Floyd.

 

[StanJ]

The book of John was written by Lazarus?

I myself am not against the Trinity,but I do not believe Jesus is Gods equal.

Yes...here is some info: http://www.lazaruscomeforth.com/lazarus-the-beloved-disciple/

You're not against it but you don't believe it? Sounds kinda oxymoronic to me.

 

[Pelaides]

Floyd, on 04 Jun 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:
I myself am not against the Trinity,but I do not believe Jesus is Gods equal.



Well P. this IMO, is where there is massive misunderstanding; which IMO, has led to miss-teaching.
Christ; for Service, and obedience to His Father "took on the form of a servant"; for the explicit purpose of becoming the anti-thesis to the "first Adam".
That service, to become the "second Adam"; which countered Satan's action with Eve/Adam!
To see this great "sacrifice" of Self by God the Father in the Son; is to begin to see the great wonder of the greatest gift "to die for a friend"; which God in Christ did!!!

When this is seen (only dimly by us in the flesh); it is the beginning of true wisdom (Proverbs); and we are never the same again afterwards!!!

We then; like the great apostle Paul, go on in life to know more and more of our Lord; but still in our flesh, struggling as Paul did!

But; we are then "sealed in heavenly places"; until the completion; when He will call His Body to Him; "and thus shall we ever be with the Lord"!

Floyd.

I can see that you slept through sunday school.Jesuses mission in this world was twofold,To die for the sins of those who believe in him and to preach the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus was and is the final sacrifise,You no longer need to sacrifice animals anymore,Jesus has come and filled that void.It is no coincedence that he was killed during the passover.We no longer need to offer Lambs without blemish.

So if Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb being offered to God.how can he be God?

Yes...here is some info: http://www.lazaruscomeforth.com/lazarus-the-beloved-disciple/

You're not against it but you don't believe it? Sounds kinda oxymoronic to me.

More opinions no facts.

 

[shturt678]

Wow! I never noticed that before

Thank you folks for caring for sure!

We'll still have to agree to disagree regarding Matt.28:19, "in the name" not meaning into the full Triune's God's personal name, but in the sphere of the revelation of the Triune God. The revelation is wrong regarding the essentials then the baptism is fallacious.

Old agreeing to disagree Jack

 

[Madad21]

Thank you folks for caring for sure!

We'll still have to agree to disagree regarding Matt.28:19, "in the name" not meaning into the full Triune's God's personal name, but in the sphere of the revelation of the Triune God. The revelation is wrong regarding the essentials then the baptism is fallacious.

Old agreeing to disagree Jack

You agreed with him before or did I miss a post, though I do kinda see what your shooting at, if you havent already can you expand on this?

 

[shturt678]

I can see that you slept through sunday school.Jesuses mission in this world was twofold,To die for the sins of those who believe in him and to preach the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus was and is the final sacrifise,You no longer need to sacrifice animals anymore,Jesus has come and filled that void.It is no coincedence that he was killed during the passover.We no longer need to offer Lambs without blemish.

So if Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb being offered to God.how can he be God?

More opinions no facts.

Thank you for caring again!

I need you to Google up the ol' Nicaea Creed, ie, Jesus united to the divine at conception, ie, he had to be the infinite Godman sacrifice necessary to the sins of the world. More to do with His being as a realiter instead of a hypostasis.

Old Jack

You agreed with him before or did I miss a post, though I do kinda see what your shooting at, if you havent already can you expand on this?

Thank you for your response again - great!

Only agreed fully to Jesus = God, and loosely agreed with the rest where Jun2u and I pretty much agree to disagree with not only the essentials, but about everything.

Jesus = God is the only essential of the faith we agree upon,

Old disagreeing Jack

 

[Madad21]

Thank you for caring again!

I need you to Google up the ol' Nicaea Creed, ie, Jesus united to the divine at conception, ie, he had to be the infinite Godman sacrifice necessary to the sins of the world. More to do with His being as a realiter instead of a hypostasis.

Old Jack

Thank you for your response again - great!

Only agreed fully to Jesus = God, and loosely agreed with the rest where Jun2u and I pretty much agree to disagree with not only the essentials, but about everything.

Jesus = God is the only essential of the faith we agree upon,

Old disagreeing Jack

Thanks mate for taking the time to respond I havent read all the conversations yet to know who beleives what exactly, much appreciated.

 

[Floyd]

I can see that you slept through sunday school.Jesuses mission in this world was twofold,To die for the sins of those who believe in him and to preach the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus was and is the final sacrifise,You no longer need to sacrifice animals anymore,Jesus has come and filled that void.It is no coincedence that he was killed during the passover.We no longer need to offer Lambs without blemish.

So if Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb being offered to God.how can he be God?

More opinions no facts.

You are not making sense!
Floyd.

 

[RANDOR]

Pelaides, on 05 Jun 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

I can see that you slept through sunday school.Jesuses mission in this world was twofold,To die for the sins of those who believe in him and to preach the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus was and is the final sacrifise,You no longer need to sacrifice animals anymore,Jesus has come and filled that void.It is no coincedence that he was killed during the passover.We no longer need to offer Lambs without blemish.

So if Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb being offered to God.how can he be God?

More opinions no facts.

I was feeding the birds yesterday............I would walk into the barn crab some seed...and they would scatter every time I approached them...I was upset at their fear of me.

If only I could coerce them into the barn where all the food is....they could feed themselves...
Then it hit me............I'll come down from the loft as a bird....and they will follow me into GLORY
I'm totally convinced............if it wasn't for these dang preachers, teachers, priests....and the rest of the so called "people of God"

Teaching others...............WHEN THEY HAVEN'T EVEN MET JESUS

Here's how it works....Meet Jesus first........then teach..........that simple..
If you have this reversed............then satan is smiling from horn to horn

Soooooooooooo who are we really battling in here?
That's right................people who have been taught..................and not shown.

But....but.....but......Billy Bob............said that Jesus was not God...............GOOD GRIEF!

Ya....................lets eat skunk...............1.5 million coyotes can't be wrong.

ARE YOU A THREAT TO SATAN?


I am........................God will will restore a hundred fold what num nuts has taken from you......

Go and take back what is rightfully yours......

And one more thing......I've yet to see a testimony from these people......all I see is robot scriptures...and robot answers.

Don't have a testimony? GO GET ONE Go on............scat

 

[lforrest]

I agree, You can't reason Jesus into someone's heart, Teaching is lacking when it isn't accompanied by spiritual evidence.

For example: Randor is brimming with Joy for the Lord. For that reason alone he makes a better argument than someone posting alacarte scriptures to support their own opinion.

 

[StanJ]

I agree, You can't reason Jesus into someone's heart, Teaching is lacking when it isn't accompanied by spiritual evidence.

For example: Randor is brimming with Joy for the Lord. For that reason alone he makes a better argument than someone posting alacarte scriptures to support their own opinion.

Amen!

 

[Madad21]

I agree, You can't reason Jesus into someone's heart, Teaching is lacking when it isn't accompanied by spiritual evidence.

For example: Randor is brimming with Joy for the Lord. For that reason alone he makes a better argument than someone posting alacarte scriptures to support their own opinion.

Absolutely Armen!!

 

[Pelaides]

You are not making sense!
Floyd.

A one sentence response from floyd?its a miracle!
They teach this stuff in bible school,I did not make it up.

Pelaides, on 05 Jun 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:
I was feeding the birds yesterday............I would walk into the barn crab some seed...and they would scatter every time I approached them...I was upset at their fear of me.

If only I could coerce them into the barn where all the food is....they could feed themselves...
Then it hit me............I'll come down from the loft as a bird....and they will follow me into GLORY
I'm totally convinced............if it wasn't for these dang preachers, teachers, priests....and the rest of the so called "people of God"

Teaching others...............WHEN THEY HAVEN'T EVEN MET JESUS

Here's how it works....Meet Jesus first........then teach..........that simple..
If you have this reversed............then satan is smiling from horn to horn

Soooooooooooo who are we really battling in here?
That's right................people who have been taught..................and not shown.

But....but.....but......Billy Bob............said that Jesus was not God...............GOOD GRIEF!

Ya....................lets eat skunk...............1.5 million coyotes can't be wrong.

ARE YOU A THREAT TO SATAN?


I am........................God will will restore a hundred fold what num nuts has taken from you......

Go and take back what is rightfully yours......

And one more thing......I've yet to see a testimony from these people......all I see is robot scriptures...and robot answers.

Don't have a testimony? GO GET ONE Go on............scat

Robot scriptures?The Holy Spirit made you make a statement like that .YeeeHaw

 

[RANDOR]

Yep............many here have taken robotics 101.....wait....i'm sure there is a scripture for that.....just can't think of it off the top of my head
YeeeeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa back at cha

Oh-----the Holy spirit didn't make me do that.........he just suggested it....and I thought.....heck I'll go with it.

Have a blessed day