QUESTION 1 for YOU - IF YOU BELIEVE JESUS is GOD
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There is a sense in which we as Christians must all admit that there are limits to our knowledge of God. Not just because of what He has not revealed of Himself, but also limits to language being sufficiently adequate to express what in ewssence is linguistically inexpressable....the nature of God.
Deut. 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Job 11:7 ¶ Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?
8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
9 The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.
Ps. 145: Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable.
1 Tim.3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
So God is in reality a great mystery, but what we do know can be understood because of what He has revealed, within the limits of language.
We have seen the following many times, but I would like to add just a little to put it in context, to give us even greater understanding.
Genesis 1: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion....27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply,
When God created man, He made man in His image. But think about it. What was it precisely that was created in God's image? He created THEM in His image, male and female, and the first commandment to them was make another...God made a family in His image. In the image of Elohim. And Elohim cannot include angels because angels were not created in the image of God, thus we are not created in the image of angels.
Only a 'them' (as in male and female created He them) could rightly or accurately reflect an image of an 'Us'.
Now Genesis 2 is even more interesting. In verse 24 we read...
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
That word, 'one' is the very same 'echad' as in Deuteronomy 6:4...
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
The two become one, and make another. Not one in a rigidly singular sense, but one in union.
And again a little further on in Genesis we read
Genesis 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us....
Again, 'echad' is used here indicating a union...how else could 'one' be 'us' except in union? Like I said at the beginning, none of this is definitive, but strongly indicative. The uniquely Christian belief of the plurality within the Godhead is not based on man's imagination, but upon good sound exegetical analysis.
Deut. 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Job 11:7 ¶ Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?
8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
9 The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.
Ps. 145: Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable.
1 Tim.3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
So God is in reality a great mystery, but what we do know can be understood because of what He has revealed, within the limits of language.
We have seen the following many times, but I would like to add just a little to put it in context, to give us even greater understanding.
Genesis 1: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion....27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply,
When God created man, He made man in His image. But think about it. What was it precisely that was created in God's image? He created THEM in His image, male and female, and the first commandment to them was make another...God made a family in His image. In the image of Elohim. And Elohim cannot include angels because angels were not created in the image of God, thus we are not created in the image of angels.
Only a 'them' (as in male and female created He them) could rightly or accurately reflect an image of an 'Us'.
Now Genesis 2 is even more interesting. In verse 24 we read...
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
That word, 'one' is the very same 'echad' as in Deuteronomy 6:4...
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
The two become one, and make another. Not one in a rigidly singular sense, but one in union.
And again a little further on in Genesis we read
Genesis 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us....
Again, 'echad' is used here indicating a union...how else could 'one' be 'us' except in union? Like I said at the beginning, none of this is definitive, but strongly indicative. The uniquely Christian belief of the plurality within the Godhead is not based on man's imagination, but upon good sound exegetical analysis.
Squeezing information from you is obviously a turn on for you!Love_4_Jesus said:
Please be clear; do you believe Jesus is Divine?
Floyd.
There is a sense in which we as Christians must all admit that there are limits to our knowledge of God. Not just because of what He has not revealed of Himself, but also limits to language being sufficiently adequate to express what in ewssence is linguistically inexpressable....the nature of God.
I think we would all agree with that statement Brakelight!
[SIZE=26pt]God and godshttp://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/God and gods.htm[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Many people when reading Scripture are confused by the above terms, especially in many of the Old Testament references. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Adding to the confusion are the many Groups/churches that deliberately teach that God (Elohim) is not made up of 3 parts; i.e. God the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit; which is partially true in the sense that Elohim (Almighty, All Powerful, All Knowing) takes on the Forms that suit His Plans, at any Administration Purpose.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The three mentioned above are of the same entity (El); therefore Divine.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The following are scripture references often used by some people to try and make the opposite case. They often are not using more than one Bible, or do not have facility for Translation comparisons; although these days that is rare.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]In the worst cases, i.e. The Jehovah’s Witnesses, they have their own translation; although in their door to door work, they often carry a KJV. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Some popular Scripture references used to try to prove their erroneous teachings are the following:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The erroneous definitions are not given, as they are very varied; but the definitions of the famous Dr. David Ginsburg (Jewish scholar, of Rabbinical training, who converted to Christ Jesus; and Dr. E. Bullinger) are; as their scholarship exceeds much that is available today. (Dr. Ginsburg worked for the British Museum and British Library for many years upon moving from Poland.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]References that follow, are the ones frequently used to argue against the Compound Godhead. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Gen. 1:26; God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, to Our likeness”. This clearly refers to the Godhead, and not to angels, as the definite articles show. The same applies to Gen. 11:7.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Ex. 7:1; Moses is told that he “will be as God to Pharaoh”. He was thus empowered to compete (successfully) against Pharaoh and his sorcerers! This is considered to be a figure of Christ/God competing with Satan and his demons.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Ex. 15:15; refers to “dukes” or “chiefs” in human beings.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Ex. 32:8; refers to idolatry, in this case the “golden calf”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]1Sam. 28:13; “elohims (gods) rising out of the earth”. In this example, Saul was again defying God, in consorting with “familiar spirits” or demonic entities; which Saul, and all Israel had been told not to do. See Duet. 18; and Saul’s lip service in v3 and 7! The term “elohims” in the Hebrew, without the definite article refers to any supernatural entity, but especially those of Satan and his servants! With the definite article it always refers to The All Powerful God, Elohim![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]1Sam. 2:25; Jehovah=Elohim in Covenant relationship with Israel in this case; but can apply to any of His created beings.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Psm. 45:6-7; v7 “God=Elohim Creator; anointed=Christ”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Psm. 82:1-6; “gods”=judges or mighty ones on earth, they will die as men.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Psm. 97:7-9; “Lord” (KJV)=Jehovah (Covenanted with Israel). Verses 7 and 9= idols![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Psm. 136:2; “God”=Elohim, gods=elohim=earthly rulers, see 135:5.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]John 10:33-35; “God”=Theos Grk.=Elohim=Creator. In the New Testament means “Father as the revealed God”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Gen. 3:5; “like God, knowing good and evil”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Deut. 10:17; “God of gods”. El.= Elohim in all strength and power; omnipotent, Creator, knows all”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]I John 5:7, and Eph. 2:18 are conclusively self-explanatory![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The major reference to The Godhead, is the very reference that the antagonists of the “three in one” use to try to prove their point! Moses spoke of this in Deuteronomy.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Deut. 6:4 is the definitive point to the whole argument.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]“Hear O Israel: Jehovah our God is One[/SIZE] Jehovah”!
[SIZE=16pt]The “antagonists” say that this statement proves One[/SIZE] not “three in One” is proven by the statement of Moses!
[SIZE=16pt]What in fact is being emphasised by the "One"[/SIZE] statement is that Jehovah is the One and only God!
[SIZE=16pt]When the Old Testament is viewed in the context[/SIZE] of the "Shema" position; Moses is giving the children of Israel the prayer to which they must resort frequently; to remind them of their "Golden calf" idolatry at the beginning of their freedom from Egypt. Also, the same prayer was to be referred to continually to try to avoid future idolatry!
[SIZE=16pt]Dr. David Ginsburg, comments:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Quote by Dr. David (Christian) Ginsburg; Hebrew and Greek scholar, Jewish academic and antiquities expert. For Encyclopaedic Ref. see: Dr. David Ginsburg:[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] (Hebrew scholar, Jewish academic, Jewish language scholar for the British Library, and Museum.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Deut. 6:4: (KJV) " Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The corrected to manuscript is: " Hear (observe, heed) O Israel: Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah:"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Ginsberg comment: "Hear " in the Hebrew text this word (sham'a) has the last letter majuscular (i.e. larger than the others) as also the last letter of the last word (echad), to emphasis "the first and great commandment" (Matt.22:33; Mark 12:29-30). These two letters taken together make (ed= "a witness", because God is a witness and "looketh on the heart" (1 Sam.16:7)."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]One: "Hebrew (ehad= a compound unity ; i.e. one made up of others" ; Gen. 1:5; 2:11; 2:21; 2:24; 3:22 one of the Trinity (capital U "Us" ); 49:16; Num.13:23; Psm.34:20;"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]These are some of the incidents of the use of (ehad) "compound unity"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]"If it was intended to be understood as singular or unique, the Hebrew word is (yahid)".[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]So; the original hand written shows that God was pointing to "a witness", by the use of the majuscular, giving (ed=a witness).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]A witness to what? To correct understanding of the given phrase; especially the compound word (ehad)! [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]In the original Hebrew, the word translated “One” above is “ehad” which has the meaning “a compound unity”. The equivalent in Latin is “unus”. So; even at that early stage the revealing of the Godhead, the hints in Genesis were being confirmed! [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Despite this firm Scriptural and Holy Spirit evidence, most will not change their minds, and accept the truth![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Floyd.[/SIZE]
Squeezing information from you is obviously a turn on for you!Love_4_Jesus said:
Please be clear; do you believe Jesus is Divine?
Floyd.
Oh trust me... I don't fret about who likes me or refuses to hear me, I just don't remember doing what he said.RANDOR said:
Apparently you have not read Matthew 28:18 (NIV) ?Love_4_Jesus said:
I shouldnt bother he got canned, Good ol' Hammerstone knows it when he smells it :lol:StanJ said:
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He skirted around denying the divinity of Christ. Anyone else who denies the divinity of Christ ought to consider the company they keep. False prophets, satanists, the demon possessed, the ruthless, humanists... the list goes on and on.StanJ said:
Unitarians and Jehovah's Witnesses
[SIZE=16pt]The Bible clearly states that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; which is where the apostasy of Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians and others that think along similar lines deny![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Reading and listening to their weasel words is like reading Genesis 3:4 and Satan's words to Eve; "Ye shall not surely die" (KJV), after God had said the opposite only a short time before! [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The interesting point of Satan's attack on Eve,[/SIZE] is that Satan wanted to bring mankind low (out of the special relationship Adam and Eve had with God); see: [SIZE=16pt]Eve and Adam[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Satan also wanted to do the same with Jesus just after His baptism by John the Baptist; and showed his power with his temptation of Jesus; and offered Him "all the kingdoms of the world", if He would fall down and worship him (Matt. 4; and Luke 4). This action by Satan also confirmed that at that time (and the present) he was/is "the prince of this world[/SIZE]"; as both Paul and Jesus acknowledged!
Jehovah Witnesses and Unitarians et-cetera, have different teachings on Satan; even though the Bible is clear on his origins, his fall, and his purpose now and in the future. See: [SIZE=16pt]Satan's origins;[/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]Satan's Motivation:[/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]The father of Lies[/SIZE] and [SIZE=16pt]Worship of Satan[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]That means that some in their teaching do not believe that, Satan tempted Eve! Some teach that evil is in man from the Eden stage, but not by Satan! This confusion means that many believe that God introduced temptation and evil; which means in their teaching that God created evil[/SIZE], with all its consequences!
That of course does not hold true to Scripture; so that all their teaching is not valid to the Bible; so where does that leave their teachings but in the rubbish tip of the worst of the heretical sects and false churches, and false Christ's that Jesus warned about during His first Advent on earth, (Matt. 24:4; Mk.13:6; and Luke 21:8)!
[SIZE=16pt]As well as denying Christ's Deity, they deny also the Deity of the Holy Spirit. They protest that they "praise and worship God as other Christians do". However; as they deny the Holy Spirit's Deity; and as God is "Spirit" (Jn. 4:23); and "all that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth"; (Jn. 4:24); they cannot worship Him, as they deny Him! Therefore; if they think they worship the True God (1 Cor.8:4); they are deluded; and using false scripture, which is often the case (their own translations; corrupting the main points of God's Truth throughout)!
This places these people and especially their leaders in the same category as the "false shepherds of Israel"; and as per. Scripture prophecy means that they have severe judgement to look forward to; when Christ Jesus begins His clearing to Truth from "the lie of Satan"; at the beginning of His Reign on earth; see: [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]Prophets, Prophetesses, Shepherds and Teachers[/SIZE] and [SIZE=16pt]Sheep and Goat Judgement[/SIZE]
The following are some of the main well known Groups that deny the Deity of Christ Jesus!
.
Mormonism - Latter-day Saints
Founded By: Joseph Smith, Jr., 1830.
Mormons believe that God has a physical, flesh and bones, eternal, perfect body. Men have the potential to become gods as well. Jesus is God's literal son, a separate being from God the Father and the "elder brother" of men. The Holy Spirit is also a separate being from God the Father and God the Son. The Holy Spirit is regarded as an impersonal power or spirit being. These three separate beings are "one" only in their purpose, and they make up the Godhead.
Jehovah's Witnesses
Founded By: Charles Taze Russell, 1879. Succeeded by Joseph F. Rutherford, 1917.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God is one person, Jehovah. Jesus was Jehovah's first creation. Jesus is not God, nor part of the Godhead. He is higher than the angels, but inferior to God. Jehovah used Jesus to create the rest of the universe. Before Jesus came to earth he was known as the archangel Michael. The Holy Spirit is an impersonal force from Jehovah, but not God.
Christian Science
Founded By: Mary Baker Eddy, 1879.
Christian Scientists believe the trinity is life, truth and love. As an impersonal principle, God is the only thing that truly exists. Everything else (matter) is an illusion. Jesus, though not God, is the Son of God. He was the promised Messiah but was not a deity. The Holy Spirit is divine science in the teachings of Christian Science.
Armstrongism
(Philadelphia Church of God, Global Church of God, United Church of God)
Founded By: Herbert W. Armstrong, 1934.
Traditional Armstrongism denies a Trinity, defining God as "a family of individuals." Original teachings say Jesus did not have a physical resurrection and the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force.
Christadelphians
Founded By: Dr. John Thomas, 1864.
Christadelphians believe God is one indivisible unity, not three distinct persons existing in one God. They deny the divinity of Jesus, believing he is fully human and separate from God. They do not believe the Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity, but simply a force—the "unseen power" from God.
Oneness Pentecostals
Founded By: Frank Ewart, 1913.
Oneness Pentecostals believe that there is one God and God is one. Throughout time God manifested himself in three ways or "forms" (not persons), as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Oneness Pentecostals take issue with the Trinity doctrine chiefly for its use of the term "person." They believe God cannot be three distinct persons, but only one being who has revealed himself in three different modes. It is important to note that Oneness Pentecostals do affirm the deity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Unification Church
Founded By: Sun Myung Moon, 1954.
Unification adherents believe that God is positive and negative, male and female. The universe is God's body, made by him. Jesus was not God, but a man. He did not experience a physical resurrection. In fact, his mission on earth failed and will be fulfilled through Sun Myung Moon, who is greater than Jesus. The Holy Spirit is feminine in nature. She collaborates with Jesus in the spirit realm to draw people to Sun Myung Moon.
Unity School of Christianity
Founded By: Charles and Myrtle Fillmore, 1889.
Similar to Christian Science, Unity adherents believe God is an unseen, impersonal principle, not a person. God is a force within everyone and everything. Jesus was only a man, not the Christ. He simply realized his spiritual identity as the Christ by practicing his potential for perfection. This is something all men can achieve. Jesus did not resurrect from the dead, but rather, he reincarnated. The Holy Spirit is the active expression of God's law. Only the spirit part of us is real, matter is not real.
Scientology - Dianetics
Founded By: L. Ron Hubbard, 1954.
Scientology defines God as Dynamic Infinity. Jesus is not God, Savior or Creator, nor does he have control of supernatural powers. He is usually overlooked in Dianetics. The Holy Spirit is absent from this belief system as well. Men are "thetan" - immortal, spiritual beings with limitless capabilities and powers, though often they are unaware of this potential. Scientology teaches men how to achieve "higher states of awareness and ability" through practicing Dianetics.
And of course New Age movement; which may be combined with any or all of the above, due to the nature of their "Organisation".
Floyd.
[SIZE=16pt]The Bible clearly states that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; which is where the apostasy of Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians and others that think along similar lines deny![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Reading and listening to their weasel words is like reading Genesis 3:4 and Satan's words to Eve; "Ye shall not surely die" (KJV), after God had said the opposite only a short time before! [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The interesting point of Satan's attack on Eve,[/SIZE] is that Satan wanted to bring mankind low (out of the special relationship Adam and Eve had with God); see: [SIZE=16pt]Eve and Adam[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Satan also wanted to do the same with Jesus just after His baptism by John the Baptist; and showed his power with his temptation of Jesus; and offered Him "all the kingdoms of the world", if He would fall down and worship him (Matt. 4; and Luke 4). This action by Satan also confirmed that at that time (and the present) he was/is "the prince of this world[/SIZE]"; as both Paul and Jesus acknowledged!
Jehovah Witnesses and Unitarians et-cetera, have different teachings on Satan; even though the Bible is clear on his origins, his fall, and his purpose now and in the future. See: [SIZE=16pt]Satan's origins;[/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]Satan's Motivation:[/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]The father of Lies[/SIZE] and [SIZE=16pt]Worship of Satan[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]That means that some in their teaching do not believe that, Satan tempted Eve! Some teach that evil is in man from the Eden stage, but not by Satan! This confusion means that many believe that God introduced temptation and evil; which means in their teaching that God created evil[/SIZE], with all its consequences!
That of course does not hold true to Scripture; so that all their teaching is not valid to the Bible; so where does that leave their teachings but in the rubbish tip of the worst of the heretical sects and false churches, and false Christ's that Jesus warned about during His first Advent on earth, (Matt. 24:4; Mk.13:6; and Luke 21:8)!
[SIZE=16pt]As well as denying Christ's Deity, they deny also the Deity of the Holy Spirit. They protest that they "praise and worship God as other Christians do". However; as they deny the Holy Spirit's Deity; and as God is "Spirit" (Jn. 4:23); and "all that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth"; (Jn. 4:24); they cannot worship Him, as they deny Him! Therefore; if they think they worship the True God (1 Cor.8:4); they are deluded; and using false scripture, which is often the case (their own translations; corrupting the main points of God's Truth throughout)!
This places these people and especially their leaders in the same category as the "false shepherds of Israel"; and as per. Scripture prophecy means that they have severe judgement to look forward to; when Christ Jesus begins His clearing to Truth from "the lie of Satan"; at the beginning of His Reign on earth; see: [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]Prophets, Prophetesses, Shepherds and Teachers[/SIZE] and [SIZE=16pt]Sheep and Goat Judgement[/SIZE]
The following are some of the main well known Groups that deny the Deity of Christ Jesus!
.
Mormonism - Latter-day Saints
Founded By: Joseph Smith, Jr., 1830.
Mormons believe that God has a physical, flesh and bones, eternal, perfect body. Men have the potential to become gods as well. Jesus is God's literal son, a separate being from God the Father and the "elder brother" of men. The Holy Spirit is also a separate being from God the Father and God the Son. The Holy Spirit is regarded as an impersonal power or spirit being. These three separate beings are "one" only in their purpose, and they make up the Godhead.
Jehovah's Witnesses
Founded By: Charles Taze Russell, 1879. Succeeded by Joseph F. Rutherford, 1917.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God is one person, Jehovah. Jesus was Jehovah's first creation. Jesus is not God, nor part of the Godhead. He is higher than the angels, but inferior to God. Jehovah used Jesus to create the rest of the universe. Before Jesus came to earth he was known as the archangel Michael. The Holy Spirit is an impersonal force from Jehovah, but not God.
Christian Science
Founded By: Mary Baker Eddy, 1879.
Christian Scientists believe the trinity is life, truth and love. As an impersonal principle, God is the only thing that truly exists. Everything else (matter) is an illusion. Jesus, though not God, is the Son of God. He was the promised Messiah but was not a deity. The Holy Spirit is divine science in the teachings of Christian Science.
Armstrongism
(Philadelphia Church of God, Global Church of God, United Church of God)
Founded By: Herbert W. Armstrong, 1934.
Traditional Armstrongism denies a Trinity, defining God as "a family of individuals." Original teachings say Jesus did not have a physical resurrection and the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force.
Christadelphians
Founded By: Dr. John Thomas, 1864.
Christadelphians believe God is one indivisible unity, not three distinct persons existing in one God. They deny the divinity of Jesus, believing he is fully human and separate from God. They do not believe the Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity, but simply a force—the "unseen power" from God.
Oneness Pentecostals
Founded By: Frank Ewart, 1913.
Oneness Pentecostals believe that there is one God and God is one. Throughout time God manifested himself in three ways or "forms" (not persons), as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Oneness Pentecostals take issue with the Trinity doctrine chiefly for its use of the term "person." They believe God cannot be three distinct persons, but only one being who has revealed himself in three different modes. It is important to note that Oneness Pentecostals do affirm the deity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Unification Church
Founded By: Sun Myung Moon, 1954.
Unification adherents believe that God is positive and negative, male and female. The universe is God's body, made by him. Jesus was not God, but a man. He did not experience a physical resurrection. In fact, his mission on earth failed and will be fulfilled through Sun Myung Moon, who is greater than Jesus. The Holy Spirit is feminine in nature. She collaborates with Jesus in the spirit realm to draw people to Sun Myung Moon.
Unity School of Christianity
Founded By: Charles and Myrtle Fillmore, 1889.
Similar to Christian Science, Unity adherents believe God is an unseen, impersonal principle, not a person. God is a force within everyone and everything. Jesus was only a man, not the Christ. He simply realized his spiritual identity as the Christ by practicing his potential for perfection. This is something all men can achieve. Jesus did not resurrect from the dead, but rather, he reincarnated. The Holy Spirit is the active expression of God's law. Only the spirit part of us is real, matter is not real.
Scientology - Dianetics
Founded By: L. Ron Hubbard, 1954.
Scientology defines God as Dynamic Infinity. Jesus is not God, Savior or Creator, nor does he have control of supernatural powers. He is usually overlooked in Dianetics. The Holy Spirit is absent from this belief system as well. Men are "thetan" - immortal, spiritual beings with limitless capabilities and powers, though often they are unaware of this potential. Scientology teaches men how to achieve "higher states of awareness and ability" through practicing Dianetics.
And of course New Age movement; which may be combined with any or all of the above, due to the nature of their "Organisation".
Floyd.
You look to young to be senile,read post # 439StanJ said:
Satan and his demons both knew Jesus was the son of God,Do you think satan would have confronted God the way he did Jesus in the desert?lforrest said:
I say no.God would have sent him to an early hell.
Satan knew exactly who He was confronting in the desert, which is why he attacked Him. By tempting Jesus, he was tempting His Father. The temptation for Jesus was set aside His faith in His Father and act on His own and use His own power to fulfil appetite. By refusing He demonstrated His faith in His Father's last word to Him, this is My Son. That confirmation of what Jesus learned through His study of scripture was what He needed as an encouragement to leave the divine powers He had laid aside when leaving heaven where they were, and continue to submit to His Father's will.Pelaides said:
The temptation for the Father was to do precisely what you are claiming that maybe He should have done. In doing so you have little understanding of why Satan is still around, and little understanding of what it would cost God if He did destroy Satan now. And what it may cost us.
Being the Son doesn't negate Jesus from being God. The Pharisees and lawyers of Jesus day knew exactly what it meant when Jesus claimed to be God's Son. Exactly what it meant when He claimed the power to forgive sin. Exactly what it meant when He said before Abraham was I AM. They knew full well that it meant He was claiming total equality with God, in essence, in authority, in purpose, in character, in creative power, and in name, Jehovah. The First and Last, the Beginning and End, the Alpha and Omega, the Almighty.
Amen! Rarely do we agree to fully agree.brakelite said:
Old Jack
Thank you folks for caring again!
Thanks, I did forget that one. Sadly you chose to flame me in your response, so for the sake of the forum I did report it.Pelaides said:
I have little understanding for what you are writing.God had to have faith in himself?brakelite said:
Jesus never claimed to be Gods Equal!
Here is what he said to the jews who wanted to kill him.John10:36 "Say ye of him ,whom the father hath sanctified,and sent into the world,Thou blasphemest;because i said,i am the son of God?"
I would appreciate a more succint response,you ask so many questions I dont know which ones to reply to.
- Aug 10, 2012
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John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
If you love the Truth you should learn the scriptures. Then a search engine can help if you even remember part of the scripture your looking for.
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
If you love the Truth you should learn the scriptures. Then a search engine can help if you even remember part of the scripture your looking for.
The Jews were liars,JESUS NEVER SAYS IN THE BIBLE THAT HE IS ,OR IS EQUAL TO GOD!!!!!
the jews said he was making himself equal to God,so that they arrest him for blasphemy,which was a crime punishable by death.
the jews said he was making himself equal to God,so that they arrest him for blasphemy,which was a crime punishable by death.
He says it throughout John 14.Pelaides said:
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?
Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me
In other gospels;
Jesus said: If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
Jesus said: You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.
Jesus said: If you do not believe that I am He, you will indeed die in your sins.
Jesus said: You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.
The Jews knew exactly what Jesus was saying and alluding to, and denying the reason for their vehemence just proves you are NOT willing to see what the NT does say.
Do me/us a favor....................put the book (bible) down.........forget the scriptures.........apparently they are not doing you much good.Pelaides said:
All you have to do...........Is go a seek God/Jesus.....get on your knees...........whatever it takes............first let Him come to you......then you can go get your bible back out.
That's how this works...............simple......nothing to it........nothing to be afraid of................then and only then will you see.....
It is evident you have been taught and not shown..............don't trust your soul to some teacher..............go directly to Jesus.
Then come back and tell us the wonders of Christ.................then ya know what i'm goin to say?
I TOLD YA SO!
Agree with the others. Pelaides, take careful note of the following....
John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
All created beings, whether they are men, angels, cherubim, seraphim, or creatures on other worlds we know not, all creation belongs to God. Not one created being, of whatever nature or rank, has power over his own life, because that life is given to him of God. Our lives are not our own therefore they are insufficient to offer...they are not ours to give.
Jesus however is here saying that He does have the power to lay down His life. Why? Because His life does belong to Him. His life was not a gift...it was not a created thing...the life of Jesus was and is inherent part of Who He is..it was His to give...it was His to take up again.
And don't go down the track of saying He was commanded to do this, therefore was a lesser being. Not so. The commandment spoken of was in the context of lineage. He is God's real and ONLY true un-adopted uncreated natural Son. That power He has over His own life came to Him by lineage...it is by an inherited precept (or commandment) given to Him as of right, because of Who He is, not as a gift, because of Who He is not.
Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
All created beings, whether they are men, angels, cherubim, seraphim, or creatures on other worlds we know not, all creation belongs to God. Not one created being, of whatever nature or rank, has power over his own life, because that life is given to him of God. Our lives are not our own therefore they are insufficient to offer...they are not ours to give.
Jesus however is here saying that He does have the power to lay down His life. Why? Because His life does belong to Him. His life was not a gift...it was not a created thing...the life of Jesus was and is inherent part of Who He is..it was His to give...it was His to take up again.
And don't go down the track of saying He was commanded to do this, therefore was a lesser being. Not so. The commandment spoken of was in the context of lineage. He is God's real and ONLY true un-adopted uncreated natural Son. That power He has over His own life came to Him by lineage...it is by an inherited precept (or commandment) given to Him as of right, because of Who He is, not as a gift, because of Who He is not.
Because spiritual things are spiritually discerned. I am sorry it is too deep for you...you really do need to get down to basics...believe in the fundamental Christian foundation of Immanuel, God with us...Christ in you, the hope of glory...Pelaides said:
Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
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