QUESTION 1 for YOU - IF YOU BELIEVE JESUS is GOD

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Floyd

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[SIZE=14pt]Satan’s Motivation!http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Satan[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]First a few words on Satan himself.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Scripture says that Satan was the most magnificent being that God created. The word Satan is Hebrew, and means “an adversary, an enemy, an accuser”. He has other names which are related to Greek, and his role in events yet to be. Note that he is a “created” being, not “begotten”, as only Jesus has that designation! Before Satan became the “adversary”, his name was “Lucifer”, which means “Morning star”, and his fall from favour is described in Isaiah 14:12-15.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]There is much confusion and myth regarding Satan, starting in the Garden of Eden. He is there in Gen. 3:1, called a “serpent”, from the Hebrew “nachash”, which means “to hiss, mutter, whisper, etc.”, which has been translated subsequently as “serpent”. An allied Chaldean word means “bright”, which chimes with other Scriptural comment describing Satan as having a “glorious appearance”. In Isaiah 6:2-6, the Hebrew word “seraph” is used to describe “heavenly beings” as “burning bright, and elevated”. In Numbers 21:8, “saraph” is “fiery serpent”. The words seraph and nachash are both used in Scripture to describe a serpent and a glorious spirit being. In 2 Cor. 11:3, Paul fears for the Corinthians, that they will be beguiled as Adam and Eve, and refers to the appearance of Satan on that occasion in 2 Cor. 11:14, "that he has transformed himself into an angel of light".[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]So, when Satan beguiled Eve, he was magnificent to behold, as he saidsurely thou wilt not die”, Gen. 3:4, and he has been saying it ever since, with the consequence that many humans will listen to him, and will go to their destruction! They will listen to Satan, even though they know the difference between good and evil![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]In summary of this brief description; Satan was the most beautiful of God’s created creatures. He became enchanted by his own beauty and power, and wanted God’s position Ezek. 28. He is cast from favour, Isaiah 14:12. His name is changed after his rebellion, to Satan, and he is allowed to try to stop trust and faith in God on earth, (Job). This process is still under way, and will not end until the events described in Rev. 20:2![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]In conversation with an Orthodox Jew, the information was offered that Orthodox Judaism does not interpret the references to Satan in the Old Testament (Tanach), as is understood by right thinking Christians (Christ-Ones). One has to be reminded here, that “Orthodox Judaismsprang from the Pharisees of Jesus’ day.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The Old Testament (OT) shows that Satan has freewill which showed in the Garden of Eden in Genesis, but it is surmised that his existence is much older. Scripture refers to him as the Covering Cherub of an earlier situation, Ezek. 28:14 (in the KJV, the "art" should be translated "wast"), hence the supposition that Satan in his earlier pre-rebellious mode was an appointed trustee by Almighty God which he reneged against. The fact that Satan tried successfully to pervert the Words of God to Eve and Adam re the “the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”, cuts no ice with Pharisaic Jews, and they merely say that all Satan was/is an Angel of God, and only a “servant” subject to God’s commands, without freewill![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]That clearly cannot be, as Satan quickly showed himself to be against God in the Garden of Eden. There clearly is great purpose in the forbearance of Almighty God in allowing Satan's constant rebellion and perversion of people and angels, as witnessed in Revelation. However, the outworking of Satan's rebellion has yet to be dealt with pen-ultimately at the beginning of the Millennial Reign of Christ/Jehovah on earth, and finally at the end of the Millennial Reign Rev. 20:10.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The references to Satan’s many attempts in Scripture to pervert God’s Words can be examined by anybody, so space will not be used here for such.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The remarkable thing to notice in all the events where Satan is involved is the fact that he always wanted/wants to deliberately change the meaning of the Words that God has given! Why would he do that? Well the answer quite simply is that to do so contravenes the Will of Almighty God! Why would Satan want to contravene God’s Will? To thwart His Plans! Why would Satan want to thwart God’s Plans? Because, if he was successful he would conquer God on God’s own Territory, which is His Love, His Word, His Promises, and His Fidelity to all His pronouncements in Scripture; and His Holy Being![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Here we have the core of the matter! God has in the past made firm promises to mankind, starting in Genesis 3:15, (which through the Roman Church, Satan has tried to attribute to Mary, instead of Jesus).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]What then is the plan of Satan?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Satan's strategy is:-[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]1) To obtain the knowledge of Creation (Jer. 31:35-37,) (this has been sought avidly by science since approx. AD 1850.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]2) To destroy the earth by degradation of all means. (This has accelerated since the start of the Industrial Revolution.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]3) To destroy Israel. (This has increased in intensity since the 2nd world war.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]4) To destroy faith in God/ Christ. (Satan is permitted to do his best/worst, to kill or prevent belief, faith, or love in Christ!)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]1) Satan has been trying to obtain the knowledge of Creation from the beginning, and is behind the work of Darwin and others to this purpose. He will not admit defeat, and will persevere in this up to the “Day of the Lord”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]2) The attempts to degrade the earth’s environment has accelerated since the Industrial Revolution in the UK, and is a strong sign of the times we are living in, accelerating towards the “Day of The Lord”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]3) This effort of Satan has been underway since Abram. As the promises were made by Jehovah God to His people, Satan’s efforts have increased, as was evidenced by the 2ndWorld War. The fact that the religious life of Israel is dominated by Pharisees, the same group that denied and organized Christ’s crucifixion via the Romans, does not help their situation, nor their denial of Satan as a powerful entity against God, and themselves! Satan’s purpose is to eliminate Israel, so that he can negate God’s promises to the Patriarchs! God has stated categorically that Israel will always exist, and Satan is extremely active in trying to thwart that Promise! Israel, since becoming a Nation again in 1948, are probably close to the OT promised culminations, but unfortunately, have yet to suffer more.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]They have yet to experience a false leader and situation, which will thankfully be short lived! [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]4) Satan’s current major thrust is to try to destroy the message of God in Christ. Since the Reformation in the 16th century he has lost his grip on the Word of God through the Roman Church, (although it has crept back to quite a large degree). He has quite successfully transferred corruption and confusion to many Protestant groups, to the extent that many people are held under one form of bondage or another! How has he done this? Quite simply by the same methods he used in the Roman case. He has used the minds of men to distort the Words of God, especially in Christ Jesus. The reformation ethos of re-examining the basic Principles of Doctrine were/are fertile ground for him![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Many new Groups and Sects that have proliferated since the Reformation have proved fertile ground for the wiles of Satan, and the confusion of mankind. More than one good man has said that Satan’s best recruiting ground is in the Pulpit, not in the fleshpots of the world! At the present, it is these people that Satan wants to add to his list of converts, which at present includes 1/3 of all heavens angels![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]How then to be sure of being in the Truth of God in Christ, and not be beguiled by Satan’s lies and subtlety?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]One of the most profound Truths of Jesus, is that He makes us free! The many and varied “rules” and complex “interpretations” of Satan’s preachers and teachers are so formulated, that even they can’t explain with clarity what they are talking about! Any person can go to the Bible, and prayerfully ask for understanding, for the love of God in Christ to be theirs! Any teacher that puts conditions on this, is not in Truth![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Any teacher or Group that states that the Israel of the Old Testament has not got a future, and have been disowned by Jehovah God and are replaced by the “Church”, are not telling the truth, and should be ignored. This teaching is sometimes linked to that of “Election”, and states that we have no choice in the matter of Salvation, only those “selected by God” are “Elect” and “Foreknown”. For more on this subject see: Is Our Freewill Of Value Or Is Everything Predestined? (Separate study) Calvinist "Works" Teaching (Separate study)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Any teacher or Group that try to use words to bamboozle the seeker, and any form of threat or insult, should be ignored; and the seeker can rest assured in the simple message of Christ Jesus, that all who believe in Him will have eternal life (John 3:16)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]By these methods, the seeker will find peace and Salvation in Jesus the Christ of Almighty God; and by reading the Bible, as a friend, will come to know more of the Mind of Christ/God![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]There is no doubt that our Lord is the most gentle Saviour, but Christ (The Anointed of Jehovah) has to deal with the evil of which most of us are unaware, and in the timing of Jehovah (Rev. 6,) that dealing leading to the ultimate conquering of Satan is underway. In that context, Satan expected the victory when Christ died on the accursed tree, but instead Christ gained victory over death, and became the first fruit of propitiation (the saved) to the Father, (Jehovah God). So Satan’s plans and motivations will come to nothing eventually![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The Age of the Earth Controversy: (Separate Study)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt] [/SIZE]
 

Madad21

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Is all this from a blog you do?
1) To obtain the knowledge of Creation (Jer. 31:35-37,) (this has been sought avidly by science since approx. AD 1850.)

1) Satan has been trying to obtain the knowledge of Creation from the beginning, and is behind the work of Darwin and others to this purpose. He will not admit defeat, and will persevere in this up to the “Day of the Lord”.
Just a couple of questions concerning this scripture you quoted;

Jeremiah 31:35-37
35 This is what the Lord says,
he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roar—
the Lord Almighty is his name:
36 “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,”
declares the Lord,
“will Israel ever cease
being a nation before me.”
37 This is what the Lord says:
“Only if the heavens above can be measured
and the foundations of the earth below be searched out
will I reject all the descendants of Israel
because of all they have done,”
declares the Lord.

Im having trouble reconciling this scripture with what your article points out as Satan's desire to obtain knowledge of creation. What portion of this scripture points to this, and how does Darwinism marry in to this plot?

Its almost as if you are implying that Satan himself wants to know, not just a ploy to trick the people.

Maybe I have misread your article can you help me understand what Im missing

Peace :)

.
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
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Pelaides said:
Let me put it to you like this.If you have a pot of freshly brewed black cofee,then you pour
yourself a cup,But you add cream and sugar to it,to make it more palatable.Is the cup of coffee the same as the pot of coffee,

Is Jesus who was born from a woman The same as God?

Are we insulting God by saying his son is him.?
Understanding the hypostatic nature of Jesus is what you need, not a cup of coffee.
 

shturt678

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Floyd said:
<snip> only for clarity. Thank you again for caring with a lot of good things posted!

Once other see one passage in obvious error, this unfairly may discredit the rest as I said before my brother, viz. Isa.14:12 has nothing to do with the person of Satan, ie, "nothing!" In order to reconcile this with Scriptures contextually and grammatically, it's symbolically the King of Babylon. This is a walk in the park my brother, that is, I don't know how the 'big boys' can mess this passage up.

Old small potatoes, Jack,

Enjoyed the rest of your work btw, agreeing to disagree with some, and agreeing with others.

The bottom line is I really appreciate you really caring, however reconcile Isa.14 asap.

I'm hoping I wasn't too hard on you my brother!

StanJ said:
Understanding the hypostatic nature of Jesus is what you need, not a cup of coffee.
Agape you as a brother, brother Stan so please don't take me the wrong way, ie, was sinfully watching Pawn Stars yesterday and going to order some "Index Coffee," have you tried it?

Also look into the realiter nature of Jesus in Heb.1:3 for starters when you get a chance, viz., only the other side of the same coin's view.

Old Jack that appreciates you, confessing sins.
 

Floyd

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Feb 28, 2014
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Madad21 said:
Is all this from a blog you do?
Just a couple of questions concerning this scripture you quoted;

Jeremiah 31:35-37
35 This is what the Lord says,
he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roar—
the Lord Almighty is his name:
36 “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,”
declares the Lord,
“will Israel ever cease
being a nation before me.”
37 This is what the Lord says:
“Only if the heavens above can be measured
and the foundations of the earth below be searched out
will I reject all the descendants of Israel
because of all they have done,”
declares the Lord.

Im having trouble reconciling this scripture with what your article points out as Satan's desire to obtain knowledge of creation. What portion of this scripture points to this, and how does Darwinism marry in to this plot?

Its almost as if you are implying that Satan himself wants to know, not just a ploy to trick the people.

Maybe I have misread your article can you help me understand what Im missing

Peace :)

.

The hypothetical point here is, that if Satan can/could obtain the knowledge of "creation"; he would undo the promise of Jehovah God as shown in verses 36 and 37.
The success of Satan against God cannot take place unless Satan voids the promise to preserve Israel that God has stated!
That's why Satan's last attempt in this Age, will entail his direct assault on Israel in the future at Armageddon !
An interesting point also; is that after he is released at the end of the Millennial Reign of Christ/God; Satan has another go at Israel and is stopped by the angel Michael; and finally destroyed in the lake of fire (Rev.20:7-10).
Floyd.


From Old Jack:

Once other see one passage in obvious error, this unfairly may discredit the rest as I said before my brother, viz. Isa.14:12 has nothing to do with the person of Satan, ie, "nothing!" In order to reconcile this with Scriptures contextually and grammatically, it's symbolically the King of Babylon. This is a walk in the park my brother, that is, I don't know how the 'big boys' can mess this passage up.

Old small potatoes, Jack,

Enjoyed the rest of your work btw, agreeing to disagree with some, and agreeing with others.

The bottom line is I really appreciate you really caring, however reconcile Isa.14 asap.


You must be almost on your own Jack here; all commentators that I know attribute Isa.14 to Satan/Lucifer; and that applies to me also.
Babylon for your info; is/was Satan's city (Babil= the gate of the god) !
It will help you to understand, if you don't fight Scripture !

By the way; I hope your surgery does well tomorrow; we will have you in mind !
Floyd.
 

shturt678

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Floyd said:
The hypothetical point here is, that if Satan can/could obtain the knowledge of "creation"; he would undo the promise of Jehovah God as shown in verses 36 and 37.
The success of Satan against God cannot take place unless Satan voids the promise to preserve Israel that God has stated!
That's why Satan's last attempt in this Age, will entail his direct assault on Israel in the future at Armageddon !
An interesting point also; is that after he is released at the end of the Millennial Reign of Christ/God; Satan has another go at Israel and is stopped by the angel Michael; and finally destroyed in the lake of fire (Rev.20:7-10).
Floyd.


From Old Jack:

Once other see one passage in obvious error, this unfairly may discredit the rest as I said before my brother, viz. Isa.14:12 has nothing to do with the person of Satan, ie, "nothing!" In order to reconcile this with Scriptures contextually and grammatically, it's symbolically the King of Babylon. This is a walk in the park my brother, that is, I don't know how the 'big boys' can mess this passage up.

Old small potatoes, Jack,

Enjoyed the rest of your work btw, agreeing to disagree with some, and agreeing with others.

The bottom line is I really appreciate you really caring, however reconcile Isa.14 asap.


You must be almost on your own Jack here; all commentators that I know attribute Isa.14 to Satan/Lucifer; and that applies to me also.
Babylon for your info; is/was Satan's city (Babil= the gate of the god) !
It will help you to understand, if you don't fight Scripture !

By the way; I hope your surgery does well tomorrow; we will have you in mind !
Floyd.
Thank you for your response brother Floyd and the encouragement.

I never knew I would ever ever have to refer a brother to Wiki "Lucifer" Isa.14:12 - Unbelievable, they nailed this one - google it up my brother, ie, "King of Babylon" + the history on how it became messed up by the 'big boys' into "Lucifer." Our Lord please forgive me. I had to dig it out almost 3 decades ago - couldn't just google it up.

btw you may find modern Lutheran Commentaries after about 1950 that interpret "Lucifer," however all the Lutheran German Sermons and Commentaries (especially ELCA - my camp), including in English, before the 50s interpret "King of Babylon."

Hope our Lord forgives me, old 'small boy' Jack
 

Nomad

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Pelaides said:
I was talking about revelations21:6
Nice try, but I was clearly talking about Rev. 22:12 & 13. This is Christ speaking.

Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done.
Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."




lease explain this verse.Revelations3:12 "Him that overcometh will i make a pillar in the temple of my God,and he will go no more out:and i will write upon him the name of my God,and the name of the city of my God,which is new jerusalem,which cometh down out of heaven from my God:and i will write upon him a new name.

Once again Jesus is talking about his father.

Do you still say the 2 are equals?
One thing that I've noticed over the years is that most who reject the doctrine of the Trinity assume one or more ancient Christological heresies in their arguments, such as Eutychianism, Docetism, or Apollinarism. None of these have any Biblical support. The Bible portrays Christ as fully God and fully man -- not some hybrid or mix of the two. The Chalcedonian position is supported by Scripture.

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Heb 2:16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.


Christ had two natures. He was divine and human without mixture or confusion. As a man Jesus would not be an atheist. The man Christ Jesus would have God as his God. This is completely consistent with the doctrine of the Trinity. The only problem here is philosophical, not Biblical.
 

StanJ

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shturt678 said:
Agape you as a brother, brother Stan so please don't take me the wrong way, ie, was sinfully watching Pawn Stars yesterday and going to order some "Index Coffee," have you tried it?

Also look into the realiter nature of Jesus in Heb.1:3 for starters when you get a chance, viz., only the other side of the same coin's view.

Old Jack that appreciates you, confessing sins.
You too old jack, but I have no idea what index coffee is. I can only handle so much of Pawn Stars. Don't like most of the characters on it.
Also I have no idea what the realiter nature of Jesus means. Heb 1:3 does talk about His charaktēr and hypostases, but again you leave us hanging as to what you want to convey.
 

shturt678

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StanJ said:
You too old jack, but I have no idea what index coffee is. I can only handle so much of Pawn Stars. Don't like most of the characters on it.
Also I have no idea what the realiter nature of Jesus means. Heb 1:3 does talk about His charaktēr and hypostases, but again you leave us hanging as to what you want to convey.
Thannnk you for this response for sure!

I've been on a roll responding to posts this morning, and you rightfully threw a wrench into the gears - good job! I agree with you. Index coffee, I just found out and was shocked, the output coffee beans from the wrong end of a Civit cat or something liek this? Just was joking, sorry bout' that one. Pawn star guy was drinking it!!! Anyway:

I go with Heb.1:3, "who, as being his glory's effulgence and His being's impress,..." Only to the point, the philosophical use of hypostasis is foreign to our passage. Ypostasis is used in a variety of meanings, but since it's here predicated of God it denotes the reality of actuality of His being. The man Jesus was united to the divine at conception (Son of God).

Old Jack that appreciates you.
 

Pelaides

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Nomad said:
Nice try, but I was clearly talking about Rev. 22:12 & 13. This is Christ speaking.

Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done.
Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."





One thing that I've noticed over the years is that most who reject the doctrine of the Trinity assume one or more ancient Christological heresies in their arguments, such as Eutychianism, Docetism, or Apollinarism. None of these have any Biblical support. The Bible portrays Christ as fully God and fully man -- not some hybrid or mix of the two. The Chalcedonian position is supported by Scripture.

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Heb 2:16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.


Christ had two natures. He was divine and human without mixture or confusion. As a man Jesus would not be an atheist. The man Christ Jesus would have God as his God. This is completely consistent with the doctrine of the Trinity. The only problem here is philosophical, not Biblical.
So what you are saying is that Jesus was some kind of clone,completly identical and equal to God?
Floyd said:
Madad:
Job 2:5
But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face."

This seems to imply that Satan cant tell the future.


A good point Madad !
Floyd.
Satan can tell the future.He tried to kill Moses and Jesus when they were babies.He knew what they would grow up to be.
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
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shturt678 said:
I go with Heb.1:3, "who, as being his glory's effulgence and His being's impress,..." Only to the point, the philosophical use of hypostasis is foreign to our passage. Ypostasis is used in a variety of meanings, but since it's here predicated of God it denotes the reality of actuality of His being. The man Jesus was united to the divine at conception (Son of God).

Old Jack that appreciates you.
Exactly, thanks. :)
 

RANDOR

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Pelaides said:
Satan can tell the future.He tried to kill Moses and Jesus when they were babies.He knew what they would grow up to be.
Nah!!!!!!!!!!!! i don't give satan that credit...........behold the lamb....satan goes what?! where?...oh there He is.......
 

StanJ

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Pelaides said:
Satan can tell the future.He tried to kill Moses and Jesus when they were babies.He knew what they would grow up to be.
Satan cannot tell the future. He exists IN time. ONLY God is Omnipresent and has foreknowledge.
The reason the infant boys were being killed when Moses was born is clearly shown in Ex 1:8-22, and was totally because of the king of Egypt's paranoia.
 

Madad21

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StanJ said:
Satan cannot tell the future. He exists IN time. ONLY God is Omnipresent and has foreknowledge.
The reason the infant boys were being killed when Moses was born is clearly shown in Ex 1:8-22, and was totally because of the king of Egypt's paranoia.
YES this is true, I forgot about that, twice in human history it was.
 

lforrest

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Pelaides said:
Satan can tell the future.He tried to kill Moses and Jesus when they were babies.He knew what they would grow up to be.
The wise men that told Herod about the one who was born king of the Jews had nothing to do with the massacre of the innocents?

No, Satan can not tell the future, he can only relay his future plans for this world which are likely to come to pass because he is the prince of this world. However God's plans supersede Satan's so his predictions are not perfect. At least that is what I have observed about prophesies Muslims have told me about.
 

StanJ

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lforrest said:
The wise men that told Herod about the one who was born king of the Jews had nothing to do with the massacre of the innocents?

No, Satan can not tell the future, he can only relay his future plans for this world which are likely to come to pass because he is the prince of this world. However God's plans supersede Satan's so his predictions are not perfect. At least that is what I have observed about prophesies Muslims have told me about.
Oh yes I missed the Jesus part. That was indeed Herod's paranoia, not Satan. If he was that smart he should have known who Jesus was anyway, so he wasn't even able to figure out the Messianic prophesies of the OT. Epic fail for the bad guy. ;)
 

shturt678

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StanJ said:
[Exactly, thanks. :)]
Thank you for your response again! However give me a head's up as rarely will others agree with me, it brings on erratic heart beats - old age thing! ^_^

Old Jack successfully had a small piece of cancer removed from my back yesterday - oweee this morning - old age thing again - need a new body asap my brother. :)
 

Pelaides

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Madad21 said:
YES this is true, I forgot about that, twice in human history it was.
Yeah what a coincidence. :eek: :eek: :eek:
lforrest said:
The wise men that told Herod about the one who was born king of the Jews had nothing to do with the massacre of the innocents?

No, Satan can not tell the future, he can only relay his future plans for this world which are likely to come to pass because he is the prince of this world. However God's plans supersede Satan's so his predictions are not perfect. At least that is what I have observed about prophesies Muslims have told me about.
????????? :wacko:
 

Madad21

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Pelaides said:
Yeah what a coincidence. :eek: :eek: :eek:

????????? :wacko:

Are you finished with the debate Pelaides?

I have taken the time and effort to respond to your questions,

Is there a problem with anything I have said? If so show me where I have made a mistake, try to use scripture.

Its only fair, otherwise what are you doing here?


Now, you made the claim yourself that "They are One in Spirit"

Let me show you an excerpt from the Nicene Creed -
"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made."
-

Pelaides said:
They are one in the Spirit,The Holy Spirit makes them one.

You yourself are saying that Jesus and God are different?
Do you consider yourself equal to your father?
To which I gave evidence also including the person of the Holy Spirit as God

Madad21 said:
You are right!!!

God is Spirit
(John 4:24) God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.

The Son of God was and is Spirit
(John 1:14) The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The Holy Spirit is Spirit, He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will.
  • The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10)
  • The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30)
  • The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27)
  • He makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11)
  • As God, the Holy Spirit is Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16, 26, 15:26)

God, Jesus and The Holy Spirit are One as in one in substance that is "Spirit" one God one substance 3 co-equal
and then after speaking to you in a respectable manor to which I put much effort in reasoning, you came back with the coffee statement (which was pithy but still served my point).

What you say here coincides with "all from the same substance." stance

Pelaides said:
Let me put it to you like this.If you have a pot of freshly brewed black cofee,then you pour
yourself a cup,But you add cream and sugar to it,to make it more palatable.Is the cup of coffee the same as the pot of coffee,

Is Jesus who was born from a woman The same as God?

Are we insulting God by saying his son is him.?
I show you this again by using your own retort about the coffee.

Madad21 said:
Is it still coffee?

One pot two cups all of the same substance
Put cream and sugar in one to walk the earth and bring a message
Leave the other one straight to pour in to your children

Now there are a multitude of cups with the same substance as the pot

John 14:20
On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Sin is in the seed of the man, im surprised you don’t know this?

:)
Now I am still waiting on your reply, in light of the above debate.

Thank you :)