That's like telling an Ice cream manufacturer that you don't like his blackberry ice cream because his workers wear Brown shoes. Whatever else I, or BOL believe has absolutely no bearing on the current subject. The only reason you bring these things up is your lack of reasonable arguments for or against the present subject.
Rapture(Catching up) will be the Greatest day ever in a Born Agin Believers Life!
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Let us look at those Biblical passages most commonly used in support of the rapture theory, and that form the basis for the ‘left behind’ phenomenom. After all @CoreIssue , this isn't a debate about what church we belong to, it's about what the Bible says right? Right??
As we study these scriptures we must realise that all of them are in the context of prophecy regarding the second coming of Jesus Christ. It is the second advent that climaxes all the above crisis’ and is the focal point of all prophecy.
Matthew 24:37-41 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Now please note carefully what Jesus is saying here. First, the second coming will be affected in precisely the same way as the great flood. The unrighteous will not be aware of the signs of the times, they shall be living at ease, living life as normal with little or no thought of eternity, when they shall be taken all away.
Let us go to the parallel passage in the gospel of Luke. You will note that Luke adds a little more detail giving a slightly different perspective.
Luke 17:26-37 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot’s wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
The people that Matthew says are taken away, Luke adds that they are destroyed. Thus the ‘taken away’ aspect or context of what Jesus is telling His disciples equates to death or destruction. This is borne out later in Luke’s passage when the disciples ask Him, “where are they taken to?” Jesus answer concerning the gathering of eagles around the carcasse echoes the following:
Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves togetherunto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
As we study these scriptures we must realise that all of them are in the context of prophecy regarding the second coming of Jesus Christ. It is the second advent that climaxes all the above crisis’ and is the focal point of all prophecy.
Matthew 24:37-41 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Now please note carefully what Jesus is saying here. First, the second coming will be affected in precisely the same way as the great flood. The unrighteous will not be aware of the signs of the times, they shall be living at ease, living life as normal with little or no thought of eternity, when they shall be taken all away.
Let us go to the parallel passage in the gospel of Luke. You will note that Luke adds a little more detail giving a slightly different perspective.
Luke 17:26-37 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot’s wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
The people that Matthew says are taken away, Luke adds that they are destroyed. Thus the ‘taken away’ aspect or context of what Jesus is telling His disciples equates to death or destruction. This is borne out later in Luke’s passage when the disciples ask Him, “where are they taken to?” Jesus answer concerning the gathering of eagles around the carcasse echoes the following:
Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves togetherunto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
We will now look at another passage and see how consistent Jesus is regarding the subject. Again guys, this topic is all about what the Bible says. I will let the following passages speak for themselves.
Matthew 13:24-30 ¶ Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
A little later Jesus explains the parable to His disciples.
Matthew 13:37-42 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:24-30 ¶ Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
A little later Jesus explains the parable to His disciples.
Matthew 13:37-42 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
I agree with BOL
I would rather be left behind. Who was left behind when Sodom was destroyed? Who was left behind after the flood? Who was left behind, yet witness the plagues, after Egypt was drowned in the Red Sea?
All those people were Tereo Ek, meaning removed from the place of concern for protection
No Christian is left behind after the rapture. No church or Christian verses exist after the seventh church during the tribulation.
The place of concern the tribulation is every human on the face of the earth.
And the earth will never be devoid of life while the earth exists as you believe.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
It most assuredly does. The two of you have such blatantly nonbiblical beliefs you cannot claim credibility on any subject,
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
you
You say=="" "Left behind" is good thing ."" 3 1/2 years of trying to stay alive under anti-christ rule and the great tribulation judgments WILL HELP YOU THINK BETTER!!!
You say=="" "Left behind" is good thing ."" 3 1/2 years of trying to stay alive under anti-christ rule and the great tribulation judgments WILL HELP YOU THINK BETTER!!!
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Wonderful Truth of the Very Near Rapture (Catching Up of All Believers)!! Those Who Died in Christ ===1 THESS. 4:13-18 NASB
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Thenwe who are alive and remain will be ""caught up"" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.===caught up "is" the rapture!!
1 Corinthians 15:51-58 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself. Philippians 3:20-21
You say=="" "Left behind" is good thing ."" 3 1/2 years of trying to stay alive under anti-christ rule and the great tribulation judgments WILL HELP YOU THINK BETTER!!!
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Thenwe who are alive and remain will be ""caught up"" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.===caught up "is" the rapture!!
1 Corinthians 15:51-58 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself. Philippians 3:20-21
You say=="" "Left behind" is good thing ."" 3 1/2 years of trying to stay alive under anti-christ rule and the great tribulation judgments WILL HELP YOU THINK BETTER!!!
No-one can Biblically justify even a 7 year tribulation, let alone Biblically justify that Christians won't be there, for either 3 and half years or the full 7.
And yet you still haven't offered any Biblical justification for this disagreement of yours. I don't mind you disagreeing, but at least offer a cogent Biblical explanation why if you want a conversation. Otherwise it merely smoke in the wind. I've offered to discuss the investigative judgement with you before on a dedicated thread...that offer is still open.
Not really. The Rapture takes place before the judgments begin. And chances are the saints in Heaven will not be witnessing the events on earth during that time.
Christians will have to live under Antichrist's rule in the future, just as they did so in the past...and many will suffer and pay the ultimate price. Many will also unwittingly, and wittingly, accept his mark because they will either be deceived, or will do so out of convenience... " The whole world wondered after the beast"...Because they want to avoid trouble, and don't want to go hungry and live on the streets or in the bush. The whimsical hope that no trouble will come upon future Christians as it has done so constantly in the past 2000 years because Jesus will take them away is making for soft weak complacent lukewarm Christians who may well toss everything in at the coming of persecution.
Mt 24:10 And then shall many* be offended**, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mt 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Many...not just a few, but likely a majority...
4183 πολύς polus pol-oos’
including the forms from the alternate pollos; adj; TDNT-6:536,910; {See TDNT 650 }
AV-many 210, much 73, great 59, misc 23; 365
1) many, much, large
Offended...
4624 σκανδαλίζω skandalizo skan-dal-id’-zo ("scandalize")
from 4625; v; TDNT-7:339,1036; {See TDNT 715}
AV-offend 28, make to offend 2; 30
1) to put a stumbling block or impediment in the way, upon which another may trip and fall, metaph. to offend
1a) to entice to sin
1b) to cause a person to begin to distrust and desert one whom he ought to trust and obey
1b1) to cause to fall away
1b2) to be offended in one, i.e. to see in another what I disapprove of and what hinders me from acknowledging his authority
1b3) to cause one to judge unfavourably or unjustly of another
1c) since one who stumbles or whose foot gets entangled feels annoyed
1c1) to cause one displeasure at a thing
1c2) to make indignant
1c3) to be displeased, indignant
The Protestant Fathers were not too well focused on Eschatology. And they had not made a clean break from Roman Catholic Eschatology either. Not one of them would have affirmed that there would be a nation of Israel on earth once again in the future. Luther had some nasty things to say about the Jews. The Nazis had no problem applying them to the extermination of European Jews.
As to the Rapture being a fallacy, now that's where you are seriously mistaken. You only have to read John 14:1-3 to know that the Rapture is a DIVINE NECESSITY.
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
I will come again, and receive you unto myself = the Rapture.
The word *rapture* is derived from the Latin rapiermur in Jerome's Latin Vulgate.
So even knowing our parents/children/brothers and sisters/best friends are being physically tortured and put to death while we enjoy the great benefits of a glorious heaven will have no effect on our happiness and contentment because Jesus wipes away all the tears right? In heaven we will be fully bereft of any compassion and empathy and love because "they were all evil and deserve what they get"...
You are still stuck on the idea that the Antichrist is the Papacy. But that is simply untenable. And all those will refuse to take the Mark will be beheaded. So there would be no living under Antichrist's rule.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Rev 20:4)
But the entire church is not beheaded nor do all Christians become martyrs.
I did not say or even imply that. If you are unaware of something, you cannot possibly respond to it.
Please read my recent study "The Criteria of Antichrist" in the Bible study forum. Ten or more criteria from the Bible and history point directly to the papacy...and those criteria are fully documented and specifically addressed...hardly untenable unless you have swallowed the counter-reformation Kool-Aid.
I agree there will be martyrs for Jesus in the future. And yes, some will escape by surviving in the wilderness until Christ comes...but the final death sentence that applies specifically to the mark will not be effected upon the remnant church because they will be protected.
How could we be unaware? Do we lose our memories? Do we suddenly have less appreciation for prophecy? Are we going to look around for our loved ones and think, "Oh, because I can't find them maybe they're hiding on the other side of the tree of life"? My friend, we are going to be asking Jesus a lot of questions as to why our loved ones aren't with us...and why there are some standing next to us who we thought were abject heretics. We are going to notice people's absence, and we will know what they will be going through...it just will not be while people are still on earth alive and kicking. Only after the resurrection, which from early Christianity and throughout the reformation, was the Christian hope.
@Enoch111 G'day mate. Phoneman wasn't speaking out of thin air when he said that the rapture was but a modern theory....
The Role of the Plymouth Brethren
In 1825 a small group of men, dissatisfied with the spiritual condition of the Protestant church in Ireland, met in Dublin to spiritually strengthen one another. Soon other groups were formed in Ireland and also in England. The most famous of these was in Plymouth.
This group came to be known as the Plymouth Brethren. Among the notables in these fellowships were Edward Irving, Dr. S. P. Tregelles and John Nelson Darby (who joined in 1827). At some point during this time, according to Tregelles, Edward Irving [yes, the same Edward Irving who translated Lacunza’s* work!!] heard some mysterious utterances in an unknown tongue telling him that there was going to be a secret rapture of the church before the visible coming of Jesus.
Though some Dispensationalist historians question the testimony of Tregelles, one fact is absolutely clear: The idea of a pre-tribulation rapture first intruded into Protestant eschatology around this time. As we shall see, this new doctrine paved the way to radically dichotomize Israel and the church. It also opened the door to the concept that the events of Revelation 4-19 apply exclusively to literal Israel on earth while the church is in heaven.
This was a new development in futurism’s incredible journey. Despite Hal Lindsey’s recent unsuccessful attempt to prove otherwise,85 futurists will generally admit that this idea was alien to the Christian church until the early 19th century. Dr. S. P. Tregelles, who, as we have noted, for some time belonged to the Plymouth Brethren but later abandoned them, describes Irving’s experience:
“I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a secret rapture of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an utterance in Mr. Irving’s church, from what was there received as being the Voice of the Spirit. But whether anyone ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God.”
From 1830 onward, a series of conferences were held at Powerscourt Castle in Ireland. We know that Edward Irving, John Nelson Darby and other key leaders of the Plymouth Brethren attended these meetings. We also know that literalistic futurism became the prophetic methodology of choice and the idea of the secret rapture became firmly entrenched. The views established at these conferences soon spread like grassfire and penetrated other denominations.
* So who is this Lacunza?
Manuel de Lacunza y Diaz (1731-1801). David Pio Gullon has done a comprehensive study of the Lacunza’s eschatology as found in his monumental work, La Venida del Mesias en Gloria y Magestad (The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty) At this juncture we will review some of Gullon’s conclusions about Lacunza’s work.
Lacunza was a Jesuit at heart and an avid student of prophecy so it can hardly be doubted that he was acquainted with the writings of Ribera. In fact, like Ribera, ( from whom futurism as a hermeneutic sprouted in the 17th century) he was an avowed futurist and loyal Roman Catholic. Lacunza’s futuristic eschatology included the following:
• The fulfillment of Revelation 4-22 is still future.
• The three and one half times of Antichrist’s dominion are literal.
• The 144,000 will be literal Jews.
• Literal Israel will be re-gathered and converted during the great tribulation which will take place immediately before the Second Coming. God will then literally fulfill all his covenant promises to the literal nation of Israel.
• The millennium will be a period of peace on earth where people will live in their mortal bodies.
• During the millennium the literal sacrificial system will be reestablished in the literal Jerusalem Temple.
It is obvious that contemporary Protestant expositors of Bible prophecy have borrowed extensively
from Lacunza. It is a sobering fact that many of the views on prophecy which are presently being taught by conservative Protestants have been borrowed from a Roman Catholic Jesuit priest!!
Lacunza, however, departed from the run of the mill futurists of his day by saying that:
• The coming of Christ will precede the millennium (Ribera and others were Amillennialists)
• The final Antichrist will not be a single individual but an apostate system which will arise at the end of the age. In Lacunza’s own words:
“If we expect to see accomplished in one man all that is said of the beast, with all that is announced to us in so many other parts of Scripture; it is much to be feared, that, all which is written will take place, and such an Antichrist not appearing, we shall be looking for him when he is already in the house. Likewise it is to be feared, that this idea which we have formed of Antichrist may prove the chief cause of the very carelessness in which men shall be found when the day of the Lord arrives.”
The Role of the Plymouth Brethren
In 1825 a small group of men, dissatisfied with the spiritual condition of the Protestant church in Ireland, met in Dublin to spiritually strengthen one another. Soon other groups were formed in Ireland and also in England. The most famous of these was in Plymouth.
This group came to be known as the Plymouth Brethren. Among the notables in these fellowships were Edward Irving, Dr. S. P. Tregelles and John Nelson Darby (who joined in 1827). At some point during this time, according to Tregelles, Edward Irving [yes, the same Edward Irving who translated Lacunza’s* work!!] heard some mysterious utterances in an unknown tongue telling him that there was going to be a secret rapture of the church before the visible coming of Jesus.
Though some Dispensationalist historians question the testimony of Tregelles, one fact is absolutely clear: The idea of a pre-tribulation rapture first intruded into Protestant eschatology around this time. As we shall see, this new doctrine paved the way to radically dichotomize Israel and the church. It also opened the door to the concept that the events of Revelation 4-19 apply exclusively to literal Israel on earth while the church is in heaven.
This was a new development in futurism’s incredible journey. Despite Hal Lindsey’s recent unsuccessful attempt to prove otherwise,85 futurists will generally admit that this idea was alien to the Christian church until the early 19th century. Dr. S. P. Tregelles, who, as we have noted, for some time belonged to the Plymouth Brethren but later abandoned them, describes Irving’s experience:
“I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a secret rapture of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an utterance in Mr. Irving’s church, from what was there received as being the Voice of the Spirit. But whether anyone ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God.”
From 1830 onward, a series of conferences were held at Powerscourt Castle in Ireland. We know that Edward Irving, John Nelson Darby and other key leaders of the Plymouth Brethren attended these meetings. We also know that literalistic futurism became the prophetic methodology of choice and the idea of the secret rapture became firmly entrenched. The views established at these conferences soon spread like grassfire and penetrated other denominations.
* So who is this Lacunza?
Manuel de Lacunza y Diaz (1731-1801). David Pio Gullon has done a comprehensive study of the Lacunza’s eschatology as found in his monumental work, La Venida del Mesias en Gloria y Magestad (The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty) At this juncture we will review some of Gullon’s conclusions about Lacunza’s work.
Lacunza was a Jesuit at heart and an avid student of prophecy so it can hardly be doubted that he was acquainted with the writings of Ribera. In fact, like Ribera, ( from whom futurism as a hermeneutic sprouted in the 17th century) he was an avowed futurist and loyal Roman Catholic. Lacunza’s futuristic eschatology included the following:
• The fulfillment of Revelation 4-22 is still future.
• The three and one half times of Antichrist’s dominion are literal.
• The 144,000 will be literal Jews.
• Literal Israel will be re-gathered and converted during the great tribulation which will take place immediately before the Second Coming. God will then literally fulfill all his covenant promises to the literal nation of Israel.
• The millennium will be a period of peace on earth where people will live in their mortal bodies.
• During the millennium the literal sacrificial system will be reestablished in the literal Jerusalem Temple.
It is obvious that contemporary Protestant expositors of Bible prophecy have borrowed extensively
from Lacunza. It is a sobering fact that many of the views on prophecy which are presently being taught by conservative Protestants have been borrowed from a Roman Catholic Jesuit priest!!
Lacunza, however, departed from the run of the mill futurists of his day by saying that:
• The coming of Christ will precede the millennium (Ribera and others were Amillennialists)
• The final Antichrist will not be a single individual but an apostate system which will arise at the end of the age. In Lacunza’s own words:
“If we expect to see accomplished in one man all that is said of the beast, with all that is announced to us in so many other parts of Scripture; it is much to be feared, that, all which is written will take place, and such an Antichrist not appearing, we shall be looking for him when he is already in the house. Likewise it is to be feared, that this idea which we have formed of Antichrist may prove the chief cause of the very carelessness in which men shall be found when the day of the Lord arrives.”
Left behind.....After the flood?
Left Behind.....has to do with WHO is ON Earth "DURING"....not AFTER.
DURING the FLOOD, those LEFT BEHIND, were those WHO DID NOT BELIEVE, and DIED ON the Earth. They Drowned!
DURING the FLOOD, those LIFTED UP ABOVE THE FACE OF THE EARTH, were THOSE WHO BELIEVED and WERE FAITHFUL TO God....
AND SAVED from Death ON the Earth.
8 People were LIFTED UP ABOVE the Face of the Earth .... ALL others Drowned...DIED.
The 8 Mortals Were returned to the Earth, (After the flood water was abated) and continued their mortal lives, and repopulated the Earth.
Gen 7
[4] For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off theface of the earth.
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the faceof the waters.
[23] And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Gen.8
[8] Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
[9] But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
[13] And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.
Every day, men are being SAVED, by and through Belief in the LORD, the Lord, His Power.
THEY SHALL also Be LIFTED UP ABOVE THE FACE of the Earth....
WHEN JESUS "DESCENDS" FROM HEAVEN TO THE CLOUDS....
^^^ THAT IS NOT HIS SECOND COMING ^^^
Jesus' SECOND COMING IS HIM COMING TO EARTH.
(Not above the face of the waters, because there will be NO Flood).
They shall be LIFTED UP ABOVE THE Face of the EARTH...TO THE CLOUDS.
Did you PAY attention?
JESUS IS Descending to the CLOUDS to REDEEM HIS CHURCH....Men who BELIEVE IN the....
The LORD, the Lord, His Power. (HS).
Are you UNAWARE there are MILLIONS of men, who BELIEVE in the LORD.....but believe NOT "IN" the Lord Jesus, the Christ?
Are you unaware....?
DURING Gods 7 year TRIBULATION ....
The Chief Anti-Christ will be ushered IN, with his FALSE Prophet, and revealed on the Earth?
The Anti-Christ will be busy dictating PEACE and SAFETY and building a world ARMY of men, pledging allegiance to him?
The FALSE Prophet will busy himself preaching to all people to choose allegiance to the the Anti-Christ?
The LORD shall SEND 144,000 Jews, 12,000 from every of the 12 Tribes to PREACH Christ Jesus?
The LORD shall SEND two WITNESSES to PREACH Christ Jesus, specifically IN the CITY of Jerusalem?
The LORD shall SEND an Angel to PREACH Christ Jesus, throughout the WHOLE World?
What do you think the PURPOSE is FOR GOD to SEND....144,000 Jews, Two Witnesses, An Angel so the WHOLE World may Hear Christ Jesus Preached?
TO SAVE THE SAVED....who are already Converted IN the LORD, Lord, HS?
No.
The Lord God Almighty SENDS the 144,000, the two witnesses, the angel....TO PREACH Christ Jesus....so that the Lord Gods.....ELECT...
(ELECT......ISRAEL, (not the country)...but rather...HIS ELECT PEOPLE)
SHALL be Spiritually SAVED and Physically Killed, and Resurrected and Redeemed.
No man can be Resurrected and Redeemed....
UNTIL that man....
Fulfills...BELIEF, ALLEGIENCE TO:
......the LORD, the Lord, the HS
UNTIL that man....
Fulfills...his ONE required Physical DEATH.
Every man WHO has fulfilled the requirements to BE resurrected AND redeemed....SHALL BE resurrected AND redeemed.
Under the OLD Covenant....the Hebrews and Jews (primarily) believed IN GOD and ARE "ISRAEL"...while the Gentiles (primarily) DID NOT BELIEVE IN God.
Under the NEW Covenant....the Gentiles (primarily) believe IN Christ Jesus, IN God and ARE Christ's CHURCH....while the Jews (primarily) DO NOT BELIEVE IN Christ Jesus the Messiah.
Christ Jesus's Church IS ALREADY SEALED...and PREPARED...the physically Dead, resurrected and redeemed....the physically Alive, (dead in Christ), resurrected and redeemed.
THEY are the ONLY ones "RAPTURED", when Jesus' Descends to the CLOUDS, to resurrect and redeem HIS CHURCH.
AFTER the CHURCH is RAPTURED....
ISRAEL, Gods Elect; are still scattered to the four corners of the Earth....and WHY 144,000 "JEWS" are sent to the Earth to PREACH Christ JESUS...
ISRAEL (Gods ELECT) are being PREPARED...DURING THE TRIBULATION...Hearing, Accepting, pledging allegiance to Belief and Faith IN Christ Jesus...
SO THAT "THEY" can be, RESURRECTED and REDEEMED.....ie "SAVED", "GLORIFIED", Forever with the Lord.....the "SAME" as Christ's CHURCH.
ONCE the CHURCH[B/] IS resurrected and redeemed.......AND
ISRAEL, the ELECT[B/] IS resurrected and redeemed.....THEN
the LORD shall DESCEND from the Clouds TO EARTH....His SECOND COMING.
Glory to Thee Lord God Almighty....
He WHO DIVIDES and SAVES HIS CHURCH "AND" ALL OF ISRAEL...."FROM" those who maintain "rejection" of the LORD, Lord, HS.
Taken
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