Rapture ... soon?

[rebuilder 454]

God is not going to tell only 4 or 5 people on the planet about the rapture.
He has thousands of remnant believers that are intimate with Him and converse with Him.

Leaders get full of themselves and think they are some bigger than life legends in their own times.

And they are in their own minds.

What goes up...must come down.

Humble yourself.....or be humbled.

 

[Douggg]

God is not going to tell only 4 or 5 people on the planet about the rapture.
He has thousands of remnant believers that are intimate with Him and converse with Him.

Leaders get full of themselves and think they are some bigger than life legends in their own times.

And they are in their own minds.

What goes up...must come down.

Humble yourself.....or be humbled.

I agree. Glorify God and Jesus. And not ourselves.

 

[Scott Downey]

I know some believe in this silent rapture, where Christ comes, and no one sees or is aware except for all these sudden disappeared persons, but even the classic rapture text says there is large amount of sounds preceding. This is not silent or very secret is it.

The Lord descends from heaven and SHOUTS, voice of an archangel, trumpet of God and then the dead are raised, meaning the resurrection.
IMO, when the dead are raised, many people will see that. They will come out of the graves. It will be very 'unnatural' to all, and the unsaved will be terrified.

Imagine being at a graveyard. And so many have come and gone, but the Lord knows where they died, a person could suddenly appear in your backyard. A street could open up, and dead people rise up, even if they are now but dust.
The sea will also give up her dead.

1 Thessalonians 4

The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen [b]asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then this too, John 12, that this is the Last Day.

I Am the Resurrection and the Life​

17 So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days. 18 Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about [a]two miles away. 19 And many of the Jews had joined the women around Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.

20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Thessalonians 4 - New King James Version

Plea for Purity - Finally then, brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God; for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, your...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Dave Watchman]

I did not respond to any of these Amils because I put them on ignor.

Actually I never thought about doing that. I might try it for an experiment. A couple of them seem smart. I might toggle the ignore button for the duration of this thread.

I was a little disappointed, but as I said, my life will go on without a glitch for me. I actually went about my normal routines ..
didn't have any gold fish to flush.

I was disappointed, relieved and confused. It was a cornucopia of conflicting emotions. I have two goldfish. I did not flush them. I bought them an automatic fish feeder. They like it. It's a very good unit. They are big boys. One is a Black Moor, the other is a Red Oranda.

Now as for Joshua, did he apologize, explain or was it all intentional, a lie to begin with ... ? Did he get mixed signals? He seemed like a nice, genuine Christian who knew his scriptures ...?
Satan can pose as an angel of light and so maybe this is what he is doing in these times. Whether Joshua was lying or he was just deceived it doesn't seem to matter, he gave a false proohecy. JESUS said there will be false prophets. Hey the disciples did not expect that Judas was going to betray Jesus - they did not have a clue. Jesus had to tell them.

From the latest information I have, Joshua didn't apologise. He didn't have an explanation. He is as confused as we are. It couldn't be a vision from Satan, Joshua speaks Jesus' Name interchangeably with God's.

It might be possible at this time, that Joshua does not understand what is happening. I was thinking of letting your post be the last, congratulations on a popular thread. 2000 views! But for you and the other people that are sincerely following along with the thread, there has been some new information to consider. Like how you were saying Joshua seemed like a nice, genuine Christian who knew his scriptures, I agree. He always seemed sincere. He acted as someone who had seen a vision from God, as crazy as that seems. Many are still in agreement with this, even at this time. It's perplexing. He still insists that his visions are true. Jesus told him He's coming to do the Exodus on the Feast of Trumpets 2025. He didn't give the time zone or the day or the date. We filled that in ourselves. Mike at Medic said: "Jerusalem is God's clock. We assumed it.

I'm sure you guys have had enough. But there's a couple things stuck in my mind. During this deal I came across someone saying the Feast of Trumpets was on October 7. I googled around and found that was the Day of Atonement. Then I forgot about it. I dismissed it. Even when all this began, that's all I do is search for the date on the net. And then I go with that like everyone else. I assume the Jews must know when their Feast Days are taking place. Or do they? There's been a lot of water pass under the calendrical bridge since the instructions were given in Leviticus.

The only Feast I have ever investigated, and done the Biblical count for with my own two eyes, was Passover. I don't really care to dispute what anyone else thinks about it, I remember discussing it with buddy here over multiple threads and years about 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth, and it didn't produce any good fruit. But what I know for certainty, and what is also confirmed by the two best Bible calendrical guys who have ever lived, is that there were two Passovers being observed during Passion week.

Jesus and His disciples were observing conjunction on a Thursday Passover beginning on Wednesday at sundown, the Passover of the Jews was on Friday at sundown. The Jews were rushing to bury Jesus before sundown when their erroneous Passover would begin, Jesus already ate His true Passover a day earlier. Jesus was Crucified on Friday April 7. 30AD. That also happened to be a full moon. Jesus' Last Supper is counted from the new moon of the preceding month.

Taking that into account, I'm never really that impressed with those scenes yesterday of the Orthodox Jews pacing back and forth outside their temple wall during the Feast of Trumpets. If the Jews in Jesus' time were wrong about the correct date for Passover, could the Jews of our time be off with the Feast of Trumpets 2025? Check it out..

Maybe with that in mind, have a look and see what you think of this video. This guy thinks that the Feast of Trumpets is actually going to start on October 7 this year. I already searched and do not find a solar eclipse in 30AD, but I still found it interesting that there was a full moon on Good Friday. We might find out more as we go. If this is true, it would go a long way to explain Joshua's demeanor at this time.

It would be funny if Joshua is Still Right. This video I post for is informational purposes only. I do not promote, or intend to teach calendrical doctrine. Do your own due diligence.

 

[Scott Downey]

Lazarus Raised from the Dead​

38 Then Jesus, again groaning in Himself, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay against it. 39 Jesus said, “Take away the stone.”

Martha, the sister of him who was dead, said to Him, “Lord, by this time there is a stench, for he has been dead four days.”

40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?” 41 Then they took away the stone [d]from the place where the dead man was lying. And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. 42 And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me.”

43 Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!” 44 And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Loose him, and let him go.”

Bible Gateway passage: John 11 - New King James Version

The Death of Lazarus - Now a certain man was sick, Lazarus of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha. It was that Mary who anointed the Lord with fragrant oil and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick. Therefore the sisters sent to Him, saying, “Lord, behold, he...

www.biblegateway.com

vv29 and v43, When Jesus descends with a shout, all who are in their graves will come forth.

John 5

26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

 

[Scott Downey]

So, when we have the rapture, we will also have the resurrection and the Last Day.
And on that Last Day, we also have the Judgment.

John 12
42 Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

44 Then Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. 46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not [g]believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.

50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

 

[PinSeeker]

So, when we have the rapture, we will also have the resurrection and the Last Day.
And on that Last Day, we also have the Judgment.

Ah, so yes, I agree... except for the "rapture" part... depending on what you think it really is, what (and/or who) is being "seized, snatched, taken by force" (original word 'ἁρπάζω,' transliterated 'harpazó')... and if you think it ~ whatever "it" is, in your opinion ~ is being seized, snatched, taken by force. <smile>

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

 

[marks]

I know some believe in this silent rapture, where Christ comes, and no one sees or is aware except for all these sudden disappeared persons, but even the classic rapture text says there is large amount of sounds preceding. This is not silent or very secret is it.

The Lord descends from heaven and SHOUTS, voice of an archangel, trumpet of God and then the dead are raised, meaning the resurrection.
IMO, when the dead are raised, many people will see that. They will come out of the graves. It will be very 'unnatural' to all, and the unsaved will be terrified.

Imagine being at a graveyard. And so many have come and gone, but the Lord knows where they died, a person could suddenly appear in your backyard. A street could open up, and dead people rise up, even if they are now but dust.
The sea will also give up her dead.

Imagine a rapture during worldwide cataclysm, you won't notice it. Only that lots of people will be missing.

Much love!

 

[PinSeeker]

Imaging a rapture during worldwide cataclysm, you won't notice it.

'Imaging'... you mean 'imagining?' It surely does take a vivid imagination, I'll agree with that... <smile>

Only that lots of people will be missing.

Well, after the final Judgment, yes. <smile> In a certain sense they will "rapture" themselves... although it will not be any kind of seizing, snatching, or taking by force; they will depart from Christ, after having been found on the wrong side of the Judgment, on Jesus's left, and therefore will not enter into the new heaven and new earth, but into this judgment and... somewhere else... <shudder> ...and obediently so...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Scott Downey]

Ah, so yes, I agree... except for the "rapture" part... depending on what you think it really is, what (and/or who) is being "seized, snatched, taken by force" (original word 'ἁρπάζω,' transliterated 'harpazó')... and if you think it ~ whatever "it" is, in your opinion ~ is being seized, snatched, taken by force. <smile>

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

This 'rapture' simply as described in 1 Thess 4.

All are resurrected on the Last Day.
We are gathered by angels and taken to the Lord in the air.

Christ will burn the world in fire

The wicked are also gathered by angels, to be judged on that Day.

But we will be with Him, on His right hand, and they will be on the left at the judgement.
Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

[marks]

'Imaging'... you mean 'imagining?'

I meant "imagine", thank you!

Much love!

 

[marks]

In a certain sense they will "rapture" themselves...

You should revisit the passage. You'll find the grammar/syntax disallows your idea here.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It surely does take a vivid imagination,

Actually, you'll understand this when you set your imagination to the side and read the Scriptures for what they themselves say, without "re-imagining" them.

Much love!

 

[Scott Downey]

Thing is for the dead to come forth from their tombs, tells you the world has not yet been burned with fire and dissolved in a massive amount of heat. The tombs still exist, and wherever a person died is where they are raised from, just like Lazarus.

When Christ comes again, He raises all the dead.
As for dead believers, they are raised first, seems to me.
All raised on the same day.

Believers though are glorified when raised, unbelieving persons do not get glorified bodies when raised.
2 different raises here, we are raised together with Christ to share in the first resurrection, as in when we died we are in heaven with Him where he is right now, as we live in Him. But we are not in a glorified body yet till the resurrection of all the dead.

Colossians 3

If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

 

[marks]

The Rapture was a mystery until God revealed it through Paul. So everyone who is thinking it will be encompassed by Jesus' teaching in the Gospels, or in the Old Testament, is incorrect, it's not there. It was a mystery. So no one was teaching it. Not even hinting. It was not revealed yet.

Much love!

 

[Scott Downey]

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

The 'first resurrection' is the above, but it is His not our own, we do also get bodily resurrected, so Our life is hid with Christ in God at the moment.

 

[Scott Downey]

The Rapture was a mystery until God revealed it through Paul. So everyone who is thinking it will be encompassed by Jesus' teaching in the Gospels, or in the Old Testament, is incorrect, it's not there. It was a mystery. So no one was teaching it. Not even hinting. It was not revealed yet.

Much love!

Yes, it was revealed by Paul, infact, it was revealed by the Spirit to comfort the church, what God would do.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Actually I never thought about doing that. I might try it for an experiment. A couple of them seem smart. I might toggle the ignore button for the duration of this thread.

From the latest information I have, Joshua didn't apologise. He didn't have an explanation. He is as confused as we are. It couldn't be a vision from Satan, Joshua speaks Jesus' Name interchangeably with God's.

He is confused. He believed what he saw, so he doesn 't know what to say ... still trying to process.⁸

Jesus was Crucified on Friday April 7. 30AD. That also happened to be a full moon. Jesus' Last Supper is counted from the new moon of the preceding month.

Amen. There are uncertainties about this date. But that he was born on 3 or 4 BC is more likely. That would mean he started his ministry at age 30 and about 26AD.

As for the video, WOW! I had no idea ... who'd thunk? How could the Jews make a major mistake with something so obvious in scripture like the definition of a new moon as being full instead of a sliver? Well, I always thought the 5786 was off and of course many of them to this day couldn't identify their Messiah when He came; so it stands to reason, they would err in many other details. Not having the Holy Spirit, they err in discerning the entire Old Testament.
But what I don't get is how could millions of scholars, Christians scholars since then miss this too? And if this is so, how sad this is for Judaism, celebrating all their feasts on the wrong dates for the last 2000 years or so.
So, according to this new spark of enlightenment given to this spirits filled Christian, Joshua's prediction for the Rapture _ on the Feast of Trumpets on Oct. 7 & 8, he has not yet defeated.
Wow. God truly has a sense of humor. This is funny that He would allow them to think they were properly celebrating feasts all along. Being off by 13 days means their Sabbath is off too. It's too funny and sounds so absurd - that it could be so.
Here we go again! Good luck trying to convince the Jews of their mistake!
Now Joshua will just have to buy a ticket to Jerusalem, get a shofar and blow it at the appropriate time. The Jews will be shuckling at the Wailing Wall wondering what is this pagan doing.

 

[Scott Downey]

Have fun with this, I do happen to agree with the general layout

declare the order of events at the rapture, which is the second coming of Christ

ChatGPT said:​

Yes — let’s lay this out carefully, using only what Scripture plainly states about the second coming / rapture.

---

Order of Events at Christ’s Return (Rapture = Second Coming)​

1. Heaven Opens, Christ Appears​

• Matthew 24:30 – “They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
• Revelation 19:11–16 – Christ appears in glory, leading heaven’s armies.
  This is visible, universal, unmistakable — not secret.

---

2. A Loud Command, Voice, and Trumpet​

• 1 Thessalonians 4:16 – “The Lord himself will descend…with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God.”
• 1 Corinthians 15:52 – “At the last trumpet…the dead will be raised imperishable.”
  His coming is heralded with cosmic signals, not silence.

---

3. Resurrection of the Dead in Christ​

• 1 Thessalonians 4:16 – “The dead in Christ will rise first.”
  Believers who have died are raised in glorified bodies.

---

4. Transformation of the Living Believers​

• 1 Corinthians 15:51–52 – “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed…this mortal body must put on immortality.”
  Living Christians instantly receive immortal, glorified bodies.

---

5. The Gathering (the “rapture”)​

• 1 Thessalonians 4:17 – “Then we who are alive…will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.”
• Matthew 24:31 – Angels gather the elect “from the four winds.”
  Resurrected and transformed believers are gathered to Christ as He comes.

---

6. Believers Are With Christ Forever​

• 1 Thessalonians 4:17 – “So we will always be with the Lord.”
  The purpose of the rapture: eternal union with Christ.

---

7. Judgment of the World​

• Matthew 25:31–32 – When the Son of Man comes, “He will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him.”
• Revelation 20:11–15 – Final judgment follows Christ’s return.
  No long gap described; His coming brings judgment and kingdom consummation.

---

Plain Sequence Summarized​

1. Christ appears in glory.
2. Trumpet / voice / command.
3. Dead in Christ raised.
4. Living believers transformed.
5. All gathered to Christ in the air.
6. Believers remain with Christ forever.
7. Final judgment of the world and renewal of creation.

---

So, by an unencumbered reading of Scripture, the rapture is not a separate secret event but part of the second coming — the moment of resurrection, transformation, gathering, and judgment, all wrapped in one climactic day of the Lord.

 

[Scott Downey]

How does 2 Thess 1 and 2 Peter 3 fit into this event?

ChatGPT said:​

Excellent follow-up — both 2 Thessalonians 1 and 2 Peter 3 give crucial detail about the same climactic day of Christ’s return. Let’s line them up with the order of events we just walked through.

---

2 Thessalonians 1:6–10​

“…when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God…when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed.”

How it fits:

• Christ’s Revelation: Matches Matthew 24 (appearing in glory) and Revelation 19.
• Judgment + Deliverance happen together:
  • Believers are given relief (v.7).
  • Unbelievers face vengeance and eternal destruction (vv.8–9).
• ➝ So the rapture/resurrection of believers and the judgment of the wicked occur at the same coming, not separated by years.

---

2 Peter 3:10–13​

“But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved…But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.”

How it fits:

• Suddenness: “Like a thief” = unexpected, echoing Jesus (Matt 24:43; 1 Thess 5:2).
• Cosmic dissolution: The heavens and earth are transformed at His coming.
• New creation: The same event that ends the present world ushers in the new heavens and new earth.
• ➝ This rules out a long gap after Christ’s return; His coming triggers the final renewal.

---

Putting It Together​

1. Christ appears in glory (2 Thess 1, Matt 24).
2. Resurrection + gathering of believers (1 Thess 4, 1 Cor 15).
3. Judgment of unbelievers (2 Thess 1, Matt 25).
4. Cosmic renewal and new creation (2 Pet 3, Rev 21).

---

So both passages reinforce:

• The rapture = second coming.
• No secret or two-stage return is described.
• It is the final day — relief for believers, destruction for the ungodly, and the creation of the new heavens and earth.