Ronald, time will tell. Based on the 70 years/generation, the Gog/Magog attack on Israel should occur no later than the end of 2030.
Rapture ... soon?
- Thread starter Ronald David Bruno
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But what is the idea that you should take 1948 and add lifespan to it built upon?
It certainly is not from the Bible.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Well, calvinism is in fact a cult
Nice dodge... but you still are evading the question
In post #431
you said "God is calling out to His people to REPENT from the lie of pre-trib rapture" indicating that believing in pre-trib is sinful behavior.
So you either believe it's a sin, or you believe Christians can engage in sinful behavior and still be saved.
Which is it???
In other words, anyone who does not agree with you is not walking in love. Got it.
Jesus walked in Love and He sought to correct those who are in error because He wanted them to repent of their false doctrine which will in fact keep them from entering His Kingdom.
False doctrine such as... claiming if a person does not agree to the timing of the rapture that you subscribe to they are living in sin.
You're not going to live that long so it's a moot point.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
The Pslams 83 War is going to happen next... that prophecy has yet to be fulfilled.
Israel, with the Lord's help, is going to handily defeat the moslem nations that will be attacking her just like what happened in the 7 Day War and this time around it's all gonna be on live TV for the world to see!
This time around the world will know that the Lord is helping them... get'cha popcorn ready, it's gonna be a great show!
Soon is relative to the one speaking and the circumstance. One day with the Lord is like a thousand years on earth. There's the clue.
Just because you say it? I don't think so. The doctrines of grace are written throughout the Word for those who have eyes to see.
Well....
It's Sunday in Israel.
Saturday here in America.
Week is almost over....
Well....so much for this thread...
It's Sunday in Israel.
Saturday here in America.
Week is almost over....
Well....so much for this thread...
Many scholars have stated that God wanted the imminency of Christ's return to be desired in every generation. It keeps us sober.
"But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into."
This is why God has been silent about the day and hour for almost 2000 years - He didn't want us to sleep, He wants us to be alert, to realize that it could happen at any time.
Of course He gave us signs: the Beginning of Sorrows and then Matthew 24:14 , which to me is one key verse that identifies the generation. In no other generation has this been possible except ours and it has recently been accomplished. And of course, as th Pre-millennials tout, 1948 is when God, after the Jews were scattered throughout the world for over 1800 years, brought them back home and Israel became a nation
I have to say, if for no other reason, this prophetic vision was like a cattle prod to some. It woke us up. Many who have an Amil view automatically dismiss anything a Premillennialist claims, they refute it all, because it just will not fit into their theology. If He did show up anytime within this generation, it would destroy their lifelong and passionately held view that they have been touting for decades. Imagine the humiliation of this held deception, a big portion of humble pie thatbthey will have to eat. A deception that caused them to attack any in opposition to their view, aggressively, with some being mean spirited, with flailing insults even as far as calling them.fools! And the teachers or pastors who have taught this false belief system will be accountable in some way
I will gladly eat a portion of humble pie if the Great Tribulation does not at least begin before the end of 2028..Jesus said all these things would come to pass in this generation. Was He talking about the entire Christian age? Nope. The disciples asked him a 3-part question which the answer not only included the destruction of thebTemple in 70AD, but also about His Second Coming, then the end of the age. So He goes back and forth answering the question and is confusing to many because it is aloaded question that deals with different time periods. He answers it in a way that would keep this blessed hope for each generation alive.
No, it is not a clue. The same verse is saying that a thousand years is like one day. Peter is not giving any guide how long will it take, he just said to the first church to be patient.
He certainly did not mean "it will take thousands years, so do not expect it to happen, you will be long dead". Read the context.
A preview of the next great show. No popcorn required.
Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII
Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and oppressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.
Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.
The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.
This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.
TribulationSigns
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You are misinterpreting the word “generation.” It has nothing to do with the lifespan of man—whether 40, 70, or 100 years—and it certainly does not revolve around forcing prophecy into dates like 1948 or 1967 to fit a timeline. That is nothing more than man’s speculation.
Jesus Himself said: “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you?” (Matthew 17:17). Again, “An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign” (Matthew 12:39). The “generation” He speaks of is not about length of life or in relationship to national Israel, but the ongoing line of evil, unbelieving people who resist the truth of God since Cain.
When Christ declared, “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled” (Matthew 24:34), He was not giving you a countdown to predict dates. He was warning that the generation of wickedness and unbelief will remain until the end, when all things are fulfilled at His coming.
So no, “generation” is not about Israel becoming a nation, Russia preparing a Gog and Magog attack, or current world events like the rise of world peacemaker with 7 years peace treaty. It is about the enduring generation of rebellion against God, which will not cease until Christ returns to bring final judgment. To twist it into a timeline for speculation is to mishandle the Word of God. Selah!
Whosoever among all of humanity who believe in Christ through His Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit! "Ye MUST be born again"!
He was not going back and forth to confuse everybody, He was talking about one series of events. If you are building this on the three-fold question of the apostles in Matthew, read also the versions in Mark and Luke.
Yes, soon can mean swiftness or imminence obviously, but it ALSO has other nuances. The English reader will say the Rapture is going to happen in a very short period of time. And if this is true, then Paul was mistaken when he said he would be in the Rapture.
The other meanings of soon also indicate quickly. When the Rapture happens, it will happen quickly (not WHEN but HOW). Do a study on the Greek words for soon, quickly, immediately, etc. Many have the nuance of HOW it will happen, not when. The Greek word also denotes speed of an event.
Is also means a relatively short period of time subsequent to another period of time.
It means a marker of close relationships between subsequent states or events
These meanings take into consideration Hellenistic Greek, not just Biblical Greek.
Finally, because you made the comment that it was not used as "next in sequence" tells me you are not serious about your Greek studies. This is a common use. Also, you seem to be ignoring Hellenistic Greek (Koine is part of this) in your studies of the word. Do you mean you read dictionaries (lexica)? How often do you read Attic Greek; this is the Greek that contributed to the Koine Greek (Biblical Greek)?
Personally, I think soon can mean what you say it means, but I think your use of the word creates a blatant contradiction in the English translations.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Oh it's going to be a modern day spectacle playing out on live TV for the whole world to see
Israel's neighbors attacking them with all the force they can bring against them.... and just like the 6 day war, the Lord is going to bless Israel with the power to hand them their backside in utter defeat!
Get'cha popcorn ready, it's gonna be great!
How about this wager? We bet $1,000.00 that the rapture will not happen by the end of 2028. You think it will, and I am saying let's make a bet to make it interesting. Fair enough?
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Yes, some see the Psalms 83 war as separate, before the Gog/Magog attack. It may or may not be. Time will tell.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
It is because gog and magog are not involved in this particular war.
It's actually the set up for the next war which comes later as the moslems finally figga out they cannot beat Israel so they ask other larger nations to help with the next war aftter having had their rear ends kicked in the Pslams 83 war.
Paul did not use "soon" in the context of the rapture. He used for example "we who will remain living" and other formulations. He used the word "soon" mostly about his personal travels, like "I will come to you soon" [Paul to Corinthians].
You're wrong. ταχύ/τάχα/ταχέως in Koine mean “quickly” or “soon,” not “next” as a lexicalized sequence marker. Cite specific papyri or NT passages if you insist otherwise. Otherwise your blanket appeal to “Hellenistic Greek” and the ad hominem about someone's seriousness are unjustified.
What "my use"?
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