Rapture ... soon?
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Dave Watchman
Active Member
A Christian's salvation is based on faith. Salvific faith is not based on works. If you feel the need to prove your salvation, works, it might be time to return to Apologetics and review your Doctrines of Salvation. Salvific faith is not based on works, as the Bible teaches that salvation is granted by God's grace through faith alone, apart from human effort or merit.
This doctrine, known as sola fide, is foundational to Lutheran and Reformed Protestant traditions, which hold that justification—being declared righteous before God—is solely through faith in Christ, not by works, or having to PROVE your salvation. The apostle Paul emphasizes this in Romans 3, stating that a person is justified by faith apart from any works.
Similarly, Ephesians 2–9 clarifies that salvation is not by works, proofs, so that no one can boast of visions or prophecies, affirming that faith by itself is a gift from God, not a human achievement.
Actually the subject of the OP was not of the of classic pre-trib rapture. That word "rapture", which I understand is a hot button issue with some, was actually used in place of the word "Exodus".
Two years ago? What day? Are you going by the Orthodox Julian Calendar? The Gregorian Calendar? The 364 Day Calendar Of The Book of Enoch መጽሐፈ ሄኖክ ?
Maybe the astronomical and biblical calendar of God?
Maybe the Jubilee Calendar as outlined in the book the Atonement Clock by Christian Gedge?
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
No the last day or end times started when Jesus came in the flesh and lasts until the end of this age which is when the great trib ends and Jesus returns to rule this world for 1000 Years as the Lord puts the devil and all the false teachers in hell (including preterists)
The rest of us will be thankful to the Lord that we didn't believe like these people
The holy place there was not the Jewish temple, but Jerusalem.
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ a spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Mt 24:15
1. When Romans reached the temple, it was already too late and this warning would have no meaning
2. Luke makes it more clear for the Gentile readers:
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains...
Lk 21:20
Jesus was talking about the Roman army surrounding Jerusalem. That was the time the disciples were said to not even return for things in their houses, but to flee Jerusalem and Judea immediately.
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In that case the phrase "the last days" has no meaning, it is an undefined amount of time, thousands of years, millions of years... which is not biblical, of course.
The last days (of their age) was the period since Christ till 70 AD, one generation ("this generation will not pass away until everything is fulfilled").
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I agree. Islam is a false religion based on Muhammed's teachings, who was a false prophet.
Dave Watchman
Active Member
This isn't a thread for the Pretribbers to fight against the Amils and Preterists. Or for you to turn into another one of your Matthew 24 where is the holy place threads?
It's just a mistake. The media which is the subject of the OP, which you would have been aware of if you had taken the time to investigate it, replaced the word "Exodus", with "rapture". The man responsible for this said, when he heard Exodus, he just knew it had to be the rapture. He's from Africa where the rapture is not popular. He didn't know the word was controversial.
The event that we were really talking about, which may still be days away, is much bigger of a thing. It should surprise the guy responsible for the controversy to find out that we are just past the heptad. The five months of Revelation 9 happened in the first 6 months of 2022.
DYODD. Video for entertainment purposes. This video is not being promoted by the OP, or myself.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Hilarious! The date setters just can't quit
They said it would happen in September and now that this month is almost over.... they are moving on the claiming it's happening in October!
Why do you continue to promote this circus? This is AI. Why are you so gullible? Why are you not convicted? Why do you push this nonsense? Do you not see the damage you are doing? Do you not see the foolishness of Pretrib? It has to go there because it doesn't have one single proof-text.
Pretribbers:
How about actually showing us any Scripture that teaches a rapture of the Church followed by a 7 years trib followed by a 3rd coming, instead of always voicing personal opinions?
How about actually showing us any Scripture that teaches a rapture of the Church followed by a 7 years trib followed by a 3rd coming, instead of always voicing personal opinions?
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
It's mid-trib.... sometime after the anti-christ is revealed to the world:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
*The phrase ”Gathering together”
Strongs 1997 = from 1996; a complete collection; especially a Christian meeting (for worship): -- assembling (gathering) together.
Strongs 1996 = from 1909 and 4863; to collect upon the same place: KJV -- gather (together).
*The phrase ”Falling Away”
Strongs 646 = feminine of the same as 647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"): KJV -- falling away, forsake.
Strongs 647 = neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of 868; properly, something separative, i.e. (specially) divorce: KJV -- (writing of) divorcement.
Strongs 868 = from 575 and 2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: KJV -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.
*Same word is translated “forsake” in Acts 21:21 - so this is what the word means: many will forsake the Lord (speaking of those that were Christians but fall away)
Definitions point to the rapture not happening until many who claim to be Christians fall away from the faith, and the anti-christ is revealed
This would mean the traditional pre-trib rapture view could not be correct
where Christians are taken out before the anti-christ is revealed, but instead Christians will be here leading up to the start of the anti-christ coming to power
Some claim the word translated “falling away” really means rapture… if that were true, then 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 would say the rapture won't happen until the rapture happens and the anti-christ be revealed which it does NOT say.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
It's too bad for all you fellas that have decided you are going thru the great tribulation.
Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Ok. I agree. But, you are not showing us a rapture passage that teaches trib period (I presume 3/2 years in your case) followed by a 3rd coming. Where are your proof-texts?
What are you talking about? The text you present has absolutely nothing to do with a future rapture.
- Where is a rapture mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
- Where is a 3 1/2 trib mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
- Where is a 3rd coming mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You NEED to keep reading the Holy Scriptures and praying.A Christian's salvation is based on faith. Salvific faith is not based on works. If you feel the need to prove your salvation, works, it might be time to return to Apologetics and review your Doctrines of Salvation. Salvific faith is not based on works, as the Bible teaches that salvation is granted by God's grace through faith alone, apart from human effort or merit.
This doctrine, known as sola fide, is foundational to Lutheran and Reformed Protestant traditions, which hold that justification—being declared righteous before God—is solely through faith in Christ, not by works, or having to PROVE your salvation. The apostle Paul emphasizes this in Romans 3, stating that a person is justified by faith apart from any works.
Similarly, Ephesians 2–9 clarifies that salvation is not by works, proofs, so that no one can boast of visions or prophecies, affirming that faith by itself is a gift from God, not a human achievement.
Actually the subject of the OP was not of the of classic pre-trib rapture. That word "rapture", which I understand is a hot button issue with some, was actually used in place of the word "Exodus".
Two years ago? What day? Are you going by the Orthodox Julian Calendar? The Gregorian Calendar? The 364 Day Calendar Of The Book of Enoch መጽሐፈ ሄኖክ ?
Maybe the astronomical and biblical calendar of God?
Maybe the Jubilee Calendar as outlined in the book the Atonement Clock by Christian Gedge?
A.) And the LORD said to Moses, “How long will this people treat Me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in Me, despite all the signs I have performed among them?
B.) Then Jesus said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
C.) Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me; but if not, believe because of the works themselves.
D.) When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD and the message does not come to pass or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
All pre-tribbers have prophesied that which will never come to pass as prophesied by today's false prophets
Pre-trib rapture will NEVER come to pass because it is a direct lie against the words of the LORD and His Holy Prophets and Holy Apostles and all who hold dear to the words of CHRIST.
@Dan Clarkston @rebuilder 454 @The Light @GRACE ambassador @marks
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The question at hand is not about how a person is SAVED since there is only One Way to the FATHER = LORD JESUS CHRISTA Christian's salvation is based on faith. Salvific faith is not based on works. If you feel the need to prove your salvation, works, it might be time to return to Apologetics and review your Doctrines of Salvation. Salvific faith is not based on works, as the Bible teaches that salvation is granted by God's grace through faith alone, apart from human effort or merit.
This doctrine, known as sola fide, is foundational to Lutheran and Reformed Protestant traditions, which hold that justification—being declared righteous before God—is solely through faith in Christ, not by works, or having to PROVE your salvation. The apostle Paul emphasizes this in Romans 3, stating that a person is justified by faith apart from any works.
Similarly, Ephesians 2–9 clarifies that salvation is not by works, proofs, so that no one can boast of visions or prophecies, affirming that faith by itself is a gift from God, not a human achievement.
Actually the subject of the OP was not of the of classic pre-trib rapture. That word "rapture", which I understand is a hot button issue with some, was actually used in place of the word "Exodus".
Two years ago? What day? Are you going by the Orthodox Julian Calendar? The Gregorian Calendar? The 364 Day Calendar Of The Book of Enoch መጽሐፈ ሄኖክ ?
Maybe the astronomical and biblical calendar of God?
Maybe the Jubilee Calendar as outlined in the book the Atonement Clock by Christian Gedge?
The Main ISSUE is about believing today's false prophets and despising those in Christ who speak TRUTH and Holy Spirit approved prophecy.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Pride goes before the fall = all pre-fibbers are set up for a great fall!!! = by their own choosing due to sin
The sin of "respect of persons"
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The gathering before the Flood is = PRE-WRATH = 1 Thess 1:10 and 1 Thess 5:9
As to great tribulation, what is your view? It's 7 years in length? Or it's only 42 months in length? If the latter that would mean that for it to be midtrib it would obviously need to occur 21 months after it initially began. Except no one holds a view like that. Not even Midtribbers. And if it is meaning the latter why not call it what it really is, that it is Pretrib? Except maybe label it mid 70th week rapture? It would still be Pretrib no matter what unless great tribulation is 7 years rather than 42 months. After all, any rapture that precedes great tribulation, regardless what one labels it, means Pretrib. Unless of course one is clueless as to what the prefix 'pre' means in relation to the beginning of great tribulation.
The beginning of the 70th week---the first half equals no great tribulation---the 2nd half equals the beginning of great tribulation. Therefore, any view that places the rapture before the beginning of the 2nd half, the beginning of great tribulation, regardless whether they have the rapture preceding the beginning of the 70th week, or have it meaning in the middle of the 70th week, this equals Pretrib since the middle of the 70th week is not the middle of great tribulation, it is the beginning of great tribulation. Therefore, it makes zero sense for any Midtribber to argue against Pretrib when they themselves are Pretribbers. Meaning per this scenario, that if great tribulation is 42 months not 7 years.
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It's not like no one has ever went off topic in any of my threads or in anyone else's threads. But for some reason it is not ok to do that in this thread but it is ok do it in other threads? Except in my case my post was not entirely off topic since Pretribbers are obviously scared to face something in the future. If it's not Matthew 24:21 and what all that involves, such as Revelation 13, what then is it involving that Pretribbers are afraid to face in the future? Except Preterists and those that align with Preterist thinking would have us believe Matthew 24:21 was already fulfilled 2000 years ago. Therefore, Pretribbers are worrying over nothing, that Matthew 24:21 is nothing to fear in the future, since it was already fulfilled 2000 years ago.
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