Rapture ... soon?
- Thread starter Ronald David Bruno
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
So your thesis is that the Holy Spirit is physically restrained/confined inside true believers??? = The Scriptures never declare this
No one becomes a physical part of the Holy Spirit as the Holy Spirit is SPIRIT = our physical bodies have been cursed by God to die
Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Ah, opinions... yeah, you know, everybody has one or two... <smile> No, it's actually suggestive of further conversation. If you want to press me on it, then go right ahead; that's kind of what I'm trying to get you to do. But it seems like you don't want to do that. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but... suit yourself.
Grace and peace to you.
Don't twist or add to what I said. We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. God is omnipresent, not confined. The Bible says the Restrainer is taken out of the way. He ordains Satan and his Antichrist to reign for 3 1/2 years. He let's him do their deeds, ( part of God's judgment). Additionally sounds odd, but God is sovereign, the Devil can't do anything unless he has God's permission- just as he dealt with Job.
" I expect you remember now how I talked about this when I was with you. You will probably also remember how I used to talk about a “restraining power” which would operate until the time should come for the emergence of this man. Evil is already insidiously at work but its activities are restricted until what I have called the “restraining power” (of God) is removed. When that happens the lawless man will be plainly seen—though the truth of the Lord Jesus spells his doom, and the radiance of the coming of the Lord Jesus will be his utter destruction. The lawless man is produced by the spirit of evil and armed with all the force, wonders and signs that falsehood can devise. To those involved in this dying world he will come with evil’s undiluted power to deceive, for they have refused to love the truth which could have saved them. God sends upon them, therefore, the full force of evil’s delusion, so that they put their faith in an utter fraud and meet the inevitable judgment of all who have refused to believe the truth and who have made evil their play-fellow." PHILLIPS Commentary on 2 Thes. 2:6
I do not want to push anyone to participate in a clear and reasonable conversation. It must flow naturally. One side giving out more energy and effort than the other one is not sustainable.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
No the 70th week of Daniel or the tribulation as it is also called is a global event, not just something affecting Israel. the persecution under nero was just that only. Persecution under oner one Roman Emperor.
During the last 7 years of human history prior to Jesus physical return, 2/3 of all Jews will be killed, and the 1/3 left will accept jesus as Messiah.
Zechariah 13:8-9
King James Version
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
This has not happened yet, and it will happen in trhe future. the major reason for the 7 year trib or the 70th week of daniel is to prepare the remnant of Israel to receive Jesus as Messiah!
Ezekiel 20:33-38
King James Version
33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
Jeremiah 31:31-37
King James Version
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.
The words of Jesus on the Olivet Mountain:
So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),
16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house.
18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.
19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers!
20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath.
21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unseen from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.
22If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.
...
34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.
Mt 24
-------------------------------
The Parable of the Wicked Tenants (the chief priests and Pharisees)
40Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard returns, what will he do to those tenants?”
...
43Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."
45When the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that Jesus was speaking about them.
Mt 21
When were the chief priests and Pharisees crushed and the kingdom of God given to other nations?
Last edited:
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Do you believe that the Holy Spirit resides in christians and when the Holy Spirit permits satan's/AC debut that it is because the Holy Spirit left this earth with the Church???
I don't feel pushed. But I don't feel like you're actually wanting a conversation, either, so you, I'm not pushing you into anything, either.
Okay, sure. Seems to me you're being at least a bit coy, for some reason. But whatever...
That's not what's happening. I'm not going to be the initiator here. You can if you want (which is what I said I was implicitly inviting you to do), and if you do, then I'll enter in. If you don't, that's fine with me; as I said, suit yourself.
This little... exchange, I guess.... is kind of ridiculous, isn't it? <smile>
Grace and peace to you.
Hamas may agree to this 21-Point Middle East Peace Treaty. But they want to add a few points of their own, revisions!
That was expected I'm sure. Most exprected them to reject it entirely and opt for 70 virgins in heaven. Trump said yesterday the deal was non-negotiable. Well, we will see. Another day is added or so ... better than another year of war that they will certainly lose.
Terrorists by nature are irrational. These guys are willing to strap bombs to their bodies and blow themselves up for a cause. And then there is that prize in heaven awaiting that lures them into insanity.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Arab countries don't want them. Quatar is enjoying the security of the USA. Hamas is not going to go for disarmament because that's how they control people. 95% of Palestinians people still support Hamas and to kill all Jews. You are right, they will blow themselves up rather than surrender.
The Hamas military leader said, "Accepting the deal is disaster and rejecting it is disaster". No, accepting it means they will not die and can be free to go live where they want in peace. Evil can't see good.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
If these were the only two verses in all the bible describing the great trib, I would agree with you. but as they make up less than 1% of all verses on the trib, when you combine them with the rest, you see it is a global event!
The kingdom has not been established yet! t will happen approx. 9p days after Jesus returns to earth.
There is no verse in the New Testament saying it will happen thousands of years after the first church and no NT verse saying it will be over the whole planet. They did not even have a concept of a planet like we do today. Reading our modern ideas into the 1st century text is anachronism.
When did Jesus return to destroy Pharisees and chief priests and to give the kingdom of God to other nations? Do you believe in multiple returns?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So you believe Jesus physically returned around 70 AD then? Do you also believe we are living in what dispensationalists call teh Millennial kingdom as described in Revelation and numerous OT verses.
And you must read revelation to see in plain language that teh 70thweek of Daniel while focused on Israel is a global happening.
TribulationSigns
Well-Known Member
- May 1, 2023
- 2,707
- 951
- 113
- 56
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
During the Millennial Kingdom—spanning from Pentecost to the Second Coming—the Holy Spirit has been restraining the spirit of Satan within unbelievers, as we ALL were, allowing them the opportunity to hear and respond to the gospel preached by true believers. But once every saint whom God intends to seal has been sealed (Revelation 7:1–4), the Lord will lift His restraining hand. When that happens, the hearts of the unbelievers—including many professing Christians who were never truly sealed—will become hardened. This removal of divine restraint explains the growing rebellion, deception, and moral decay we now see unfolding across the world, especially in this nation.
Last edited:
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Good Post - make one correction = The Milennial Kingdom has not yet begun
Christ holds the Promise and Authority of the Milennial Kingdom in Himself.
When HE Returns, HE will do this: 2 Thess 2:7-8 and Revelation 6:12-17
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.
And I watched as the Lamb opened the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. 14The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.
15Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”
TribulationSigns
Well-Known Member
- May 1, 2023
- 2,707
- 951
- 113
- 56
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
If this is true, then salvation is NOT a present reality. You must understand that Satan had to be bound for the sake of the Elect—and he has been bound since the Cross. Christ Himself explained:
Matthew 12:28–29 (KJV)
(28) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
(29) Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
The “strong man” here represents Satan. His “house” is the world. Humanity, apart from Christ, are his “goods” under spiritual bondage. In order to rescue us from the kingdom of darkness and transfer us into His own kingdom, Christ first had to bind Satan.
This is the very essence of the Millennial Kingdom—not a future 1,000-year political reign, but Christ’s present reign beginning at His Cross and Resurrection. The notion that Satan is not yet bound is a premillennial distortion that completely misses the point of Matthew 12 and the purpose of Satan’s binding.
He already has. He received the power (authority) in heaven and in Earth and empowered His believers to preach His Gospel to save people from spiritual bondage.
Mat 28:18-20
(18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Do you know what is the mystery of lawlessness?
This passage is speaking of the judgment of the unfaithful Church, not a literal cosmic event. In Scripture, the sun, moon, and stars often symbolize spiritual realities, such as leadership, influence, and the faithful vs. unfaithful within God’s congregation. Here, John is describing the spiritual upheaval and judgment that falls on those in the Church who have rejected God’s authority, not literal celestial phenomena.
Do you know who are the kings of the Earth, exactly?
Rev 1:5
(5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Did Christ talk about president and prime ministers here? Or his people whom He made kings and priest in His kingdom on Earth to preach Gospel, humm?
Last edited:
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
No where in the Scriptures does it say that satan had to be bound in prison for Christ to bring Salvation to men.
Only at the 2nd Coming of Christ/Rev ch20, is the only time that satan is bound and cast in prison.
FACT Check = 1 Peter 5:8-9
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.
TribulationSigns
Well-Known Member
- May 1, 2023
- 2,707
- 951
- 113
- 56
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Are you seriously denying Scripture? I just quoted Matthew 12:28-29, which clearly shows that Christ had to bind Satan, the strong man, in order to plunder his house and rescue us from spiritual bondage. To claim otherwise is outright rejection of God’s Word. Refusing to acknowledge what Scripture plainly says is not just ignorance—it’s a dangerous pride that blinds you from the truth. That is your problem, not God’s.
You got the timing all wrong. Didn't you REALIZE that if Satan had NOT been bound for the past 2,000 years then salvation is NOT possible! Period! Consider wisely:
Rev 12:7-11
(7) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
(8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(10) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
(11) And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 20:2-3
(2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
(3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Both Revelation 12 and 20 above are talking about the SAME EVENT! Satan lost his place and was cast out of the Old Testament congregation—the kingdom of heaven—when he was bound. Note carefully Matthew 12:10, which says, “Now is come salvation.” This salvation was accomplished at the Cross, and it is the very message the Church has been preaching for the past 2,000 years. God was not speaking of a future binding of Satan that would delay salvation. Salvation came then, at Christ’s victory, and is available to all who believe. Deny this and Matthew 12, as well as Revelation 20, clearly show that you do not receive God's Word but being deceived with premillennialism fallacy.
So what is your point about this? Although Satan was bound "FOR THE SAKE OF THE ELECT", he still work through unsaved people whom he may devour. Selah!
Similar threads
