Rapture ... soon?

[David in NJ]

The lamentation is directed to king Tyrus, not to a spirit being, but to a human being! Tyrus is indeed showing that he is under the influence of evil. Though he was not literally in the garden of God in the beginning, through the seed of evil in his heart and mind, spiritually, he was. From the foundation of the world Tyrus, like Adam and Eve gave himself over to evil. Mankind was the seal of perfection when God created them. Being anointed as a guardian cherub. Cherubim are NOT angels. They are defined as an imaginary figure. God placed cherubim and a flaming sword to keep the way of the tree of life. Man was to be guardian of the garden of Eden to dress and keep it. But man, through Adam & Eve, all humanity has fallen into sin and all manner of evil, as we find in their offspring, king Tyrus. It was for this cause that Tyrus's heart was lifted up, and like his first parents determined to become as God.

Genesis 3:24 (KJV) So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Genesis 2:15 (KJV) And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Well, for now you cannot see, but later you will.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I asked where the Bible says he was created for evil from the beginning? That is not what Jesus said there. Also, "the beginning" is a bit of a vague reference. You, apparently, interpret it as meaning from the beginning of time, but that's just an assumption. It can easily mean he rebelled early on to the point where it can be said he was a murderer from the beginning. Regardless, that verse does not say that He was created to be a murderer from the beginning. Actually, how could that be possible? God said everything He created was very good. So, it's not possible that He created Satan to be evil.

The serpent as representative of evil and wickedness is called the tempter being ordained by God from the beginning to test Adam & Eve, knowing it would bring sin and death through sin into creation.

Genesis 3:1 (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Serpent - defined as a snake, which comes from H5172 - נָחַשׁ nâchash, naw-khash' a primitive root; properly, to hiss, i.e. whisper a (magic) spell; generally, to prognosticate:—× certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) × enchantment, learn by experience, × indeed, diligently observe.

You keep making these claims that are never actually stated in scripture. Where does scripture say that Satan was "ordained by God from the beginning to test Adam & Eve"?

 

[rwb]

Well, for now you cannot see, but later you will.

David, there is nothing wrong with my vision. Perhaps the Spirit has not yet opened your spiritual eyes to know things that can only be spiritually discerned?

1 Corinthians 2:10-13 (KJV) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[WPM]

The Bible certainly seems to show him as real, and evil, in fact a murderer from the beginning, and father of lies. But the Bible never says he was an angel of God who fell. He was created for evil from the beginning.

Genesis 3:1 (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Serpent - defined as a snake, which comes from H5172 - נָחַשׁ nâchash, naw-khash' a primitive root; properly, to hiss, i.e. whisper a (magic) spell; generally, to prognosticate:—× certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) × enchantment, learn by experience, × indeed, diligently observe.

Most theologians know that "serpent" and "dragon" are symbols to describe the wicked character of our arch-enemy. Are you denying that? Are you saying Satan was a real snake? The Pharisees were also called snakes. Are they real snakes? Jesus is a lion and a lamb? Are these literal? We are sheep? Is that literal? The wicked are goats? Should we take that literal?

 

[TribulationSigns]

I asked where the Bible says he was created for evil from the beginning? That is not what Jesus said there.

Yes.

Since we can conclusively say that Satan's whole modus operandi is to discredit, dispute, distort and speak against the Bible as authoritative. Satan is darkness wherein is no light and God is light wherein there is no darkness. God confesses that He authored the Scriptures, Satan is a spirit to disobey what is written. Q.E.D., Satan conclusively did not author the Bible, he hates every word of it. God cannot lie, while the Devil was a liar from the beginning, even as God says man goes astray as soon as he is born speaking lies! For example, from the beginning also. See any correlation there between the Devil and unsaved man? Selah.

Psalms 58:3-4

• "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
• Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;"

Here is your Serpent! According to the unadulterated word of God. Here is your liar from the beginning, according to the authoritative word of God! Period! Here is that spirit we are warned not to believe. It is man.

John 8:44

• "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
• because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Who was a murderer and liar from the beginning? Cain, a man, with the spirit of disobedience? Humm? Carnal man, with a spirit he was born with? Yes, not a angelic super being that possessed him later on like you think!

May the God of grace give us the wisdom and knowledge to know the difference between the false and the true!

 

[WPM]

Yes.

Since we can conclusively say that Satan's whole modus operandi is to discredit, dispute, distort and speak against the Bible as authoritative. Satan is darkness wherein is no light and God is light wherein there is no darkness. God confesses that He authored the Scriptures, Satan is a spirit to disobey what is written. Q.E.D., Satan conclusively did not author the Bible, he hates every word of it. God cannot lie, while the Devil was a liar from the beginning, even as God says man goes astray as soon as he is born speaking lies! For example, from the beginning also. See any correlation there between the Devil and unsaved man? Selah.

Psalms 58:3-4

• "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
• Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;"

Here is your Serpent! According to the unadulterated word of God. Here is your liar from the beginning, according to the authoritative word of God! Period! Here is that spirit we are warned not to believe. It is man.

John 8:44

• "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
• because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Who was a murderer and liar from the beginning? Cain, a man, with the spirit of disobedience? Humm? Carnal man, with a spirit he was born with? Yes, not a angelic super being that possessed him later on like you think!

May the God of grace give us the wisdom and knowledge to know the difference between the false and the true!

The beginning is talking about the Garden. Check other Scripture!

 

[TribulationSigns]

What is the truth taught in this passage...

Ephesians 6:10 Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

You say the devil, Satan, represents the spirit of man, right? So, you think that verse 11 above is talking about putting on the whole armor of God in order to stand against the wiles of your own spirit?

Really? That is confusing on your part. We, as Christians, did not receive the whole armor and all other things until we were born again with the Spirit of God, Selah!

Paul said we do not wrestle against flesh and blood human beings, so how could he have been saying that we have to stand against the wiles of our own spirits? And he said that, instead being against flesh and blood human beings, our spiritual battle is "against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places". So, you think that "principalities", "powers", "the rulers of the darkness of this age" and "spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places" represent the spirit of man? That can't be since Paul specifically said our battle is not against flesh and blood human beings. Instead, it's against evil spirit beings like Satan and his angels.

Look, let start over, slowly. Few things you need to understand first.

We, as the messengers of God, are symbolized in Revelation as stars "because" stars are the light bearers in kingdom of heaven. Get it? And we represent the kingdom of heaven, church, on earth. Again, when Christ spoke of the end time and spoke of darkness because of stars falling from heaven, He's talking about us, the church. Symbolically, that's the fall of the church that brings darkness all over the face of the earth. The same as there was darkness when Christ was crucified, symbolizing the light was taken away! The stars represent the congregation, the light bearers, the candles, the messengers of God. Even as the 12 stars in Joseph's Dreams in the Old Covenant were "representing" his 12 brothers, symbolized the twelve tribes of Israel, Selah! There are no coincidences in God's word. Or again:

Genesis 22:17

• "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

Did God talk about your angels here? Of course not! They are human messengers of the congregation of Israel! We are as the stars of heaven through Christ, THEE bright and morning star (Revelation 22:16) who leads us. He is the chief messenger, the archangel! Christ is not a literal star anymore than we are! But He is the light bearer, which stars represent. The prophecy that the congregation of God would extend all over the earth (Genesis 15:5) to bless all nations and kindreds and languages, is fulfilled in the church through Christ.

Revelation 1:20

• "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the "Messengers" of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

A mystery no more since God has just revealed it to "he who hath an ear to hear what the Spirit says to the churches." The Candlesticks are the churches and the candles are the light bearers. The seven stars likewise are the messengers of the churches and the number seven is to "represent" the completeness/perfection of that church--and its universal extension to all the world, a blessing, exhorting, and warning to all these churches throughout time. Not just the churches in Asia. But you'll never see that truth if you keep denying and fighting against the symbolic, parabolic, or allegorical nature of God's complex, complicated, and intricately woven word.

Revelation 12:1

• "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:"

There's no literal woman floating in heaven with twelve literal stars in her head. The woman "IS
the congregation, and the 12 stars are the messengers of that congregation! This alone should alert any faithful Christian of the allegorical nature of the stars, as well as the woman. Notice what God says about them. Here is what shot down your theory about Satan getting 1/3 of angels in heaven:

Revelation 12:4

• "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."

Here we should "see" how stars are cast out of heaven, and it's not supernatural wicked beings who were living with God in heaven where no evil could exist, suddenly turning evil. Selah. If you understand who the woman actually represents, you must logically understand who the stars are who were situated on her head who are cast from her. Stars being cast down from this woman by the devil is not a coincidence anymore than the kingdom taken from Israel is. It represents the fall of the congregation through the wiles of the Devil in those messengers rejecting of Christ in their apostasy. And he who hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The stars are representing God's messengers of His congregation. Not supernatural angels, but messengers.

 

[WPM]

Really? That is confusing on your part. We, as Christians, did not receive the whole armor and all other things until we were born again with the Spirit of God, Selah!



Look, let start over, slowly. Few things you need to understand first.

We, as the messengers of God, are symbolized in Revelation as stars "because" stars are the light bearers in kingdom of heaven. Get it? And we represent the kingdom of heaven, church, on earth. Again, when Christ spoke of the end time and spoke of darkness because of stars falling from heaven, He's talking about us, the church. Symbolically, that's the fall of the church that brings darkness all over the face of the earth. The same as there was darkness when Christ was crucified, symbolizing the light was taken away! The stars represent the congregation, the light bearers, the candles, the messengers of God. Even as the 12 stars in Joseph's Dreams in the Old Covenant were "representing" his 12 brothers, symbolized the twelve tribes of Israel, Selah! There are no coincidences in God's word. Or again:

Genesis 22:17

• "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

Did God talk about your angels here? Of course not! They are human messengers of the congregation of Israel! We are as the stars of heaven through Christ, THEE bright and morning star (Revelation 22:16) who leads us. He is the chief messenger, the archangel! Christ is not a literal star anymore than we are! But He is the light bearer, which stars represent. The prophecy that the congregation of God would extend all over the earth (Genesis 15:5) to bless all nations and kindreds and languages, is fulfilled in the church through Christ.

Revelation 1:20

• "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the "Messengers" of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

A mystery no more since God has just revealed it to "he who hath an ear to hear what the Spirit says to the churches." The Candlesticks are the churches and the candles are the light bearers. The seven stars likewise are the messengers of the churches and the number seven is to "represent" the completeness/perfection of that church--and its universal extension to all the world, a blessing, exhorting, and warning to all these churches throughout time. Not just the churches in Asia. But you'll never see that truth if you keep denying and fighting against the symbolic, parabolic, or allegorical nature of God's complex, complicated, and intricately woven word.

Revelation 12:1

• "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:"

There's no literal woman floating in heaven with twelve literal stars in her head. The woman "IS
the congregation, and the 12 stars are the messengers of that congregation! This alone should alert any faithful Christian of the allegorical nature of the stars, as well as the woman. Notice what God says about them. Here is what shot down your theory about Satan getting 1/3 of angels in heaven:

Revelation 12:4

• "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."

Here we should "see" how stars are cast out of heaven, and it's not supernatural wicked beings who were living with God in heaven where no evil could exist, suddenly turning evil. Selah. If you understand who the woman actually represents, you must logically understand who the stars are who were situated on her head who are cast from her. Stars being cast down from this woman by the devil is not a coincidence anymore than the kingdom taken from Israel is. It represents the fall of the congregation through the wiles of the Devil in those messengers rejecting of Christ in their apostasy. And he who hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The stars are representing God's messengers of His congregation. Not supernatural angels, but messengers.

You are doing a lot of ducking around some simple questions. What are you scared of?

1. Do you believe that demons or demonic spirits are real?
2. Do you believe they are fallen angels?
3. Do you believe that the angels who fell with Satan at the beginning are demons who possess certain wicked who leave themselves open to demonic control?
4. Do you believe in the existence of an evil, supernatural spirit being named Satan?
5. Do you accept that evil spirits/demons are evil angels that exist like Satan does?
6. Or, is Satan abstract "conscience" or the innate "evil spirit" of unregenerate man?

 

[TribulationSigns]

The beginning is talking about the Garden. Check other Scripture!

Of course. A liar from the beginning, in Eve.
A murderer from the beginning, in Cain.
It is a spirit of Satan that was passed down to all men (wicked generation) unless many will be freed from it and be part of the holy nation in Christ.

Consider wisely what you need to do:

Proverbs 25:2

• "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."

Take generation which Christ was speaking. Because He was speaking of the generation (or family) of snakes that could not escape the damnation of Hell, the exact same word, the same generation of vipers (Matthew 12:34) that He spoke of before. He obviously wasn't talking about the generation of His disciples, who lived at this same time and who would escape the damnation of hell. So then we must conclude that the "this generation" refers only to a certain segment of the living population at that time. The part that could not escape the damnation of Hell, not those who would. The part that was the children of the Devil, not the children of God. NOT coincidentally, the very word translated "generation" is [gennema], meaning offspring. There are two different generations or offspring. The generation of Christ and the generation of the Devil. One evil offspring was of the family responsible for the death of Abel, and one stands before God without the stain of blood. The part who was responsible for the death of Able thousands of years before is the generation or offspring of Satan. That is the only generation that cannot escape the damnation of Hell of which Christ spoke.

In conclusion, in Matthew 24:34, it is contextually accurate to consider the "this generation" statement Christ made, as pertaining to this generation of which Christ was speaking as vipers, which wasn't all the people who lived at that time (1st century)--the way so many understand the word "generation" to mean those living in that era, and according to that context. The context is the sin of the offspring of vipers, who would be punished for it.

John 8:44

• "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

A murderer from the beginning, which is why "this generation" Christ said would be responsible for the blood of Abel, who was killed by his brother Cain. Selah. Because they were all of that generation or offspring of the devil. They are the fruit of the Devil.

By the way, that word, is also translated as "fruit" for the same reason that fruit implies offspring!

 

[TribulationSigns]

You are doing a lot of ducking around some simple questions. What are you scared of?

1. Do you believe that demons or demonic spirits are real?
2. Do you believe they are fallen angels?
3. Do you believe that the angels who fell with Satan at the beginning are demons who possess certain wicked who leave themselves open to demonic control?
4. Do you believe in the existence of an evil, supernatural spirit being named Satan?
5. Do you accept that evil spirits/demons are evil angels that exist like Satan does?
6. Or, is Satan abstract "conscience" or the innate "evil spirit" of unregenerate man?

Wait. Do you agree that we did not receive the whole armor of God until we are born again of the spirit, first? Not before. Yes or no?

As for your questions above, SI answered correctly. I knew that he was playing games of ignorance with questions when he already know my position.

 

[WPM]

Wait. Do you agree that we did not receive the whole armor of God until we are born again of the spirit, first? Not before. Yes or no?

As for your questions above, SI answered correctly. I knew that he was playing games of ignorance with questions when he already know my position.

Hold on! Let me get you right: is this your answers?

• Do you believe that demons or demonic spirits are real?

No, I do not.

• Do you believe they are fallen angels?

I do not believe in the existence of angels at all.

• Do you believe that the angels who fell with Satan at the beginning are demons who possess certain wicked who leave themselves open to demonic control?

I do not believe in the existence of angels at all. The references to angels in Scripture are to human messengers.

• Do you believe in the existence of an evil, supernatural spirit being named Satan?

No, I do not.

• Do you accept that evil spirits/demons are evil angels that exist like Satan does?

No, I do not.

• Or, is Satan abstract "conscience" or the innate "evil spirit" of unregenerate man?

The term Satan represents the spirit of man which is naturally evil.

 

[WPM]

Of course. A liar from the beginning, in Eve.
A murderer from the beginning, in Cain.
It is a spirit of Satan that was passed down to all men (wicked generation) unless many will be freed from it and be part of the holy nation in Christ.

Consider wisely what you need to do:

Proverbs 25:2

• "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."

Take generation which Christ was speaking. Because He was speaking of the generation (or family) of snakes that could not escape the damnation of Hell, the exact same word, the same generation of vipers (Matthew 12:34) that He spoke of before. He obviously wasn't talking about the generation of His disciples, who lived at this same time and who would escape the damnation of hell. So then we must conclude that the "this generation" refers only to a certain segment of the living population at that time. The part that could not escape the damnation of Hell, not those who would. The part that was the children of the Devil, not the children of God. NOT coincidentally, the very word translated "generation" is [gennema], meaning offspring. There are two different generations or offspring. The generation of Christ and the generation of the Devil. One evil offspring was of the family responsible for the death of Abel, and one stands before God without the stain of blood. The part who was responsible for the death of Able thousands of years before is the generation or offspring of Satan. That is the only generation that cannot escape the damnation of Hell of which Christ spoke.

In conclusion, in Matthew 24:34, it is contextually accurate to consider the "this generation" statement Christ made, as pertaining to this generation of which Christ was speaking as vipers, which wasn't all the people who lived at that time (1st century)--the way so many understand the word "generation" to mean those living in that era, and according to that context. The context is the sin of the offspring of vipers, who would be punished for it.

John 8:44

• "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

A murderer from the beginning, which is why "this generation" Christ said would be responsible for the blood of Abel, who was killed by his brother Cain. Selah. Because they were all of that generation or offspring of the devil. They are the fruit of the Devil.

By the way, that word, is also translated as "fruit" for the same reason that fruit implies offspring!

• But there was a real demonic entity (not man or the spirit of man) that spoke to Adam and Eve in the Garden.
• There was a real demonic entity (not man or the spirit of man) that tempted/tested Christ after His baptism.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Hold on! Let me get you right: is this your answers?

• Do you believe that demons or demonic spirits are real?

No, I do not.

• Do you believe they are fallen angels?

I do not believe in the existence of angels at all.

• Do you believe that the angels who fell with Satan at the beginning are demons who possess certain wicked who leave themselves open to demonic control?

I do not believe in the existence of angels at all. The references to angels in Scripture are to human messengers.

• Do you believe in the existence of an evil, supernatural spirit being named Satan?

No, I do not.

• Do you accept that evil spirits/demons are evil angels that exist like Satan does?

No, I do not.

• Or, is Satan abstract "conscience" or the innate "evil spirit" of unregenerate man?

The term Satan represents the spirit of man which is naturally evil.

What are you doing? Why keep asking questions you already know the answers to? You’re not looking for truth—you’re looking for trouble. You two remind me of Statler and Waldorf from The Muppet Show — sitting on the balcony, doing nothing but heckling.

 

[TribulationSigns]

• But there was a real demonic entity (not man or the spirit of man) that spoke to Adam and Eve in the Garden.
• There was a real demonic entity (not man or the spirit of man) that tempted/tested Christ after His baptism.

Go ahead and cling to your false doctrine if that’s what you choose. You clearly have no understanding of who the generation of vipers truly are — the spiritual offspring or children of the Devil himself, their spirit of disobedience. Oh, and, they never wore the whole armor of God in the first place, right?

 

[rwb]

Most theologians know that "serpent" and "dragon" are symbols to describe the wicked character of our arch-enemy. Are you denying that? Are you saying Satan was a real snake? The Pharisees were also called snakes. Are they real snakes? Jesus is a lion and a lamb? Are these literal? We are sheep? Is that literal? The wicked are goats? Should we take that literal?

I understand the symbolic depictions of spirit beings. The Bible speaks of two types of spirit beings, (1) serving God (2) serving Satan. I disagree with tradition handed down defining the evil spirit as once having been a spirit for good, who sinned against God and became the master evil spirit called Satan.

Nowhere in the Bible is this evil spirit, whose character is variously described by the many names given it, ever defined as having once been a good spirit. God, speaking of His spirit messengers says they are angels sent to minister to those who shall be heirs of salvation. These angels are never defined as being the human sons of God. They are distinct from human sons of God who alone are chosen for salvation.

Hebrews 1:6-7 (KJV) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Hebrews 1:13 (KJV) But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Hebrews 1:14 (KJV) Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Satan, devils, dragon, demons etc. are also spirit messengers, sent to be ministering spirits for all manner of evil, and before the advent of Christ held power over death. The war between Michael and the angels of God (spirits sent for good) and the dragon and his angels (spirits sent to serve evil) does not mean evil spirits were created good and became evil, which is a commonly held view derived through tradition, misunderstanding and much assumption. They weren't cast out of heaven to the earth through sin. They were cast out of heaven and bound to the earth to serve the same purpose as that of the serpent in the beginning at creation. They are sent to try/test the hearts and minds of man, especially man chosen to be the heirs of salvation.

Let me say again, the serpent sent to test Adam & Eve was created to serve the will of God. This spirit being created would open the eyes of A&E that they might come to understand both good and evil, and how in choosing evil death came into creation. The serpent was made cunning and crafty full of all manner of subtilty to entice A&E into disobeying God. Remember, the plan of God was already ordained before the foundation of the world, to send His Son to be the Lamb slain for sin. Good and evil can only be understood through experience.

You, and others are hung up on trying to prove Satan is real, and that he is one of the angels of God that rebelled against God. But that really isn't the point. Of course, evil through evil beings is real, and it originates from the hearts and minds of mankind, who through the fall of humanity at creation, brought sin and death through sin to every man. Why? That the purpose of God to save His people would be accomplished as man comes to understand their desperate situation apart from God and see their need for The Saviour!

 

[rwb]

Hold on! Let me get you right: is this your answers?

• Do you believe that demons or demonic spirits are real?

No, I do not.

• Do you believe they are fallen angels?

I do not believe in the existence of angels at all.

• Do you believe that the angels who fell with Satan at the beginning are demons who possess certain wicked who leave themselves open to demonic control?

I do not believe in the existence of angels at all. The references to angels in Scripture are to human messengers.

• Do you believe in the existence of an evil, supernatural spirit being named Satan?

No, I do not.

• Do you accept that evil spirits/demons are evil angels that exist like Satan does?

No, I do not.

• Or, is Satan abstract "conscience" or the innate "evil spirit" of unregenerate man?

The term Satan represents the spirit of man which is naturally evil.

How could two Christians reading the replies of another Christian come to such opposing understanding to what was said???

 

[rwb]

I asked where the Bible says he was created for evil from the beginning? That is not what Jesus said there. Also, "the beginning" is a bit of a vague reference. You, apparently, interpret it as meaning from the beginning of time, but that's just an assumption. It can easily mean he rebelled early on to the point where it can be said he was a murderer from the beginning. Regardless, that verse does not say that He was created to be a murderer from the beginning. Actually, how could that be possible? God said everything He created was very good. So, it's not possible that He created Satan to be evil.

The beginning of creation is when sin and death through sin came to earth. Since the evil spirit called the serpent is the cause for A&E being deceived, he was a liar, which is why he is called the father of lies. The same evil spirit called the serpent brought death to God's creation, that makes him a murderer, because eating of the tree God commanded them not to eat of began the process that would bring death to everything God created "very good". This certainly does not paint any kind of picture of the serpent once being a good angel until he disobeyed God.

 

[JohnDB]

I found this interesting....

https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1976170763939184683

 

[David in NJ]

David, there is nothing wrong with my vision. Perhaps the Spirit has not yet opened your spiritual eyes to know things that can only be spiritually discerned?

1 Corinthians 2:10-13 (KJV) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

According to you, 1 Corinthians does not exist because it declares there are "spirits" roaming about.

 

[WPM]

What are you doing? Why keep asking questions you already know the answers to? You’re not looking for truth—you’re looking for trouble. You two remind me of Statler and Waldorf from The Muppet Show — sitting on the balcony, doing nothing but heckling.

Can you be more respectful? I am trying to ascertain what you believe. Ok, so i will take this as a yes. Correct?

Do you believe there is such a thing as elect angels? If, so can you describe what they are and what they do? If not, can you describe what they are and what they represent?