It had to have been. That is what the antediluvians were judged with, and what Cain was judged with, etc.. Noah even knew the difference between clean and unclean animals, and that is not spelled out till Moses time, either.
Re Spirit baptism
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Godslittleservant
Active Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
FYI - i BELIEVE in the scriptural importance of water baptism
i KNOW that it cannot save anyone
i water baptize in the Name above all names - the LORD Jesus Christ
What we are doing here on this thread is bringing forth from scripture the Eternal Life that can only be found in the precious Blood of the LORD Jesus Christ and the MOST IMPORTANT baptism of ALL = the Baptism in/of the Holy Spirit
Peace
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
John 1:17 - "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."
Godslittleservant
Active Member
I have tried to study the subject of baptism with you but you do not show me where my scripture I point toward have any bearing in our study. You do not show me why they do not align and confirm the other as I have tried to show using Gods word.
You say with out proof with scripture that Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ does not have any salvation principle at all it is just an empty ritual that just symbolizes the inward to the outward .
I tried to show using Gods word that you missed the point that God was trying to teach you on that but instead it was where he chose to do the cleansing work of transforming you from dead in sin to alive in Christ and you had not showed me with scripture where that was not the case
I have asked you to read the 6TH chapter of Romans where Paul clearly teaches that The baptism in Christ name is where one is changed by the work of God from dead in sin to alive in Christ. You have not dealt with that.
You keep telling me that baptism does not save you but God tells me it does I was just trying to study this with you but apparently you are not open for study.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
No worries.
Let's be respectful of each others views going forward. Thanks.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen said:
If you break it down, I'm not sure that Acts 2:38 even makes sense.
1) Repent
Is this done in a moment of time and is then finished? Nope.
2) Be baptized
How exactly? Water baptism, or the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?
3) In the name of Jesus Christ
A task for the baptism facilitator, I suppose?
(and none of this Trinity stuff that Jesus commanded!)
4) For the remission of your sin
I thought Christ took care of that on the cross,
Why is my act paying for my own sin? I don't get it.
5) And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit
How did I repent without the help of the Holy Spirit?
I don't get it until now?
I wanted to demonstrate how easy it is to mindlessly take something familiar and not question it.
When you break it down, sometimes these things fall apart.
And in this case some serious questions arise. The Bible has contradictions we need to steer around.
Like Jesus' commandment to baptize in the names of the Trinity, which we see nowhere in the rest of the New Testament.
What's up with that?
And how do we react? With workaround apologetics. Thus denying obvious contradictions.
If you break it down, I'm not sure that Acts 2:38 even makes sense.
1) Repent
Is this done in a moment of time and is then finished? Nope.
2) Be baptized
How exactly? Water baptism, or the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?
3) In the name of Jesus Christ
A task for the baptism facilitator, I suppose?
(and none of this Trinity stuff that Jesus commanded!)
4) For the remission of your sin
I thought Christ took care of that on the cross,
Why is my act paying for my own sin? I don't get it.
5) And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit
How did I repent without the help of the Holy Spirit?
I don't get it until now?
No, you are welcome here.
I wanted to demonstrate how easy it is to mindlessly take something familiar and not question it.
When you break it down, sometimes these things fall apart.
And in this case some serious questions arise. The Bible has contradictions we need to steer around.
Like Jesus' commandment to baptize in the names of the Trinity, which we see nowhere in the rest of the New Testament.
What's up with that?
And how do we react? With workaround apologetics. Thus denying obvious contradictions.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Was it a NEED to be baptized, or a desire?
He wasn't joining their church, as he was heading back to Ethiopia.
Seems he wanted to solidify a decision to follow Jesus.
We seem to be lining up on either side of whether baptism is needed for salvation.
@Jim C
We are baptised into Christ, through the Holy Spirit, which is the spiritual birth....the rebirth/ regenerated...brought Alive in Christ, by the Holy Spirit, he births our spirit into his..it’s his supernatural power that births us, you do know his word is Alive and Active?...which means what to you?
Hebrews 4:12
New International Version
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.John 3:8
“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”
Romans 6
New International Version
Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
@Godslittleservant
We seem to be lining up on either side of whether baptism is needed for salvation.
Some of us have shown that baptism is NOT needed for salvation.
(though important for other reasons)
You seem to be of the opposite opinion.
Do you have more than Acts 2:38 to make your case?
Present your position.
But don't assume that your collection of scriptures is better than anyone else's.
I have a pet peeve about those who play the "God card" to win the argument.
We seem to be lining up on either side of whether baptism is needed for salvation.
Some of us have shown that baptism is NOT needed for salvation.
(though important for other reasons)
You seem to be of the opposite opinion.
Do you have more than Acts 2:38 to make your case?
Present your position.
But don't assume that your collection of scriptures is better than anyone else's.
I have a pet peeve about those who play the "God card" to win the argument.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Great post, thanks.
I noticed something in the wording of this verse.
It says, "... all of us who were baptized...", which would indicate baptized believers as a subset of all believers.
It doesn't say "... all of us were baptized...", it says, "... all of us who were baptized..." Interesting.
@Godslittleservant
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
FYI -- We can be brothers and sisters even when we don't agree.
Another pet peeve of mine. - LOL
Several topics on the subject of UNITY.
Unity of the faith - at what cost?
The call for doctrinal unity has gone out across the centuries. Are we there yet? (not by a long shot) Where is the problem? Perhaps it is in the assumption that the unity of the faith is doctrinal unity. - Can there be unity of the faith that overlooks doctrinal differences? - Does the Body...
www.christianityboard.com
Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?
This is a follow-up to the previous topic: Unity of the faith - at what cost? Link below. Probably the biggest roadblock to Christian doctrinal unity is holding on to the freedom we have to determine our own beliefs. Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of Christian doctrinal...
www.christianityboard.com
Embracing Doctrinal Diversity - Unity in diversity
In the same way we have learned to understand and respect cultural diversity, we should learn to understand and respect doctrinal diversity. Can Catholics and Protestants respect one another despite our doctrinal differences? (yes) What about Baptists and Pentecostals? (yes) You name it. How...
www.christianityboard.com
The tyranny of doctrinal unity - "Join or die."
A follow-up to the two previous topics: https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/would-you-surrender-your-own-beliefs-in-the-cause-of-doctrinal-unity.56191/ https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/unity-of-the-faith-at-what-cost.56095/ - Do you have the right to allow the Holy Spirit to...
www.christianityboard.com
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I think to John 3, I just led my cell group in this passage. we talked about why the people of Israel did nto look to the serpent to live when moses raised it up. We determined they thought it was "to easy" and they continued to walk in unbelief and died..
2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
what does spirit baptism have to do with water baptism?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The law was given to moses.. as a written testimony
No one was ever saved by the law.. so no one under the law (Israel) was ever saved by it
that was the mistake they made, and why they crucified Christ.
lets not make the same mistake.
as for the law. I believe it is written in our DNA.. that is why even the gentiles, who did not have the law. by practice obeyed..its our moral compass within us.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Romans 6 is not water baptism.
It is the act of God baptizing us into Christ.
it is spirit baptism, as promised by John the baptist.
Water baptism does nto save you. Peter did not tell people in acts to to get baptized to receive remission of sin. He said get baptized on the account you have already received remission of sin.. Because they repented. and received the spirit.
Again, if you study deeper (the greek) you will see it does nto say what many think it says by the English translation.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
just a questionFYI -- We can be brothers and sisters even when we don't agree.
Another pet peeve of mine. - LOL
Several topics on the subject of UNITY.
Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?
This is a follow-up to the previous topic: Unity of the faith - at what cost? Link below. Probably the biggest roadblock to Christian doctrinal unity is holding on to the freedom we have to determine our own beliefs. Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of Christian doctrinal...Unity of the faith - at what cost?
The call for doctrinal unity has gone out across the centuries. Are we there yet? (not by a long shot) Where is the problem? Perhaps it is in the assumption that the unity of the faith is doctrinal unity. - Can there be unity of the faith that overlooks doctrinal differences? - Does the Body...Embracing Doctrinal Diversity - Unity in diversity
In the same way we have learned to understand and respect cultural diversity, we should learn to understand and respect doctrinal diversity. Can Catholics and Protestants respect one another despite our doctrinal differences? (yes) What about Baptists and Pentecostals? (yes) You name it. How...The tyranny of doctrinal unity - "Join or die."
A follow-up to the two previous topics: https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/would-you-surrender-your-own-beliefs-in-the-cause-of-doctrinal-unity.56191/ https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/unity-of-the-faith-at-what-cost.56095/ - Do you have the right to allow the Holy Spirit to...
can two people who have two different gospels be true brothers?
Gal 1: 6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert[a] the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be [b]accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Acts 8:35 - Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” Water baptism "follows" conversion. (Acts 10:43-47)
Compare with John 20:31 - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. *What happened to baptism? *Also, what happened to baptism in (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29.40.47; 11:25,26?) Did Jesus forget to mention it?
Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together.
Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.
1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep, personal conviction from the heart that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior.
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