Re Spirit baptism

[Godslittleservant]

Glad you pointed this out. Thank you.

Being from a Charismatic/Pentecostal background... (evangelical prior)
I have a different view of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. (as subsequent to conversion)

I won't bother giving a full presentation. Y'all know what Charismatic/Pentecostal is, right?
And you understand the Charismatic/Pentecostal view of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

Question for skeptics:
How did the Apostles determine that the believers in Samaria had NOT received the Holy Spirit?

Acts 8:14-17 NIV
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

The reference to Acts 8:14-17 is easy to answer why Philip knew they had not received the Power of confirmation to the word is because he knew he could not transfer that power He had to call on an Apostle to transfer the power to establish the new church Philip had just planted.
Philip knew that they had the indwelling spirit upon their baptism in the name of Christ because that is where God promised to give the indwelling it was the Spirit upon to do the power gifts of confirming the word as seem in Mark 16:17-20 that Philip called on the Apostle Peter to administer.

It is a little harder to see how Paul new that the Ephesians in Acts 19 did not receive the indwelling but luck for us Paul explains that.

Acts 19:1-5
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

See here somehow Paul could tell that the men did not seem to have the promised indwelling spirit. So he asked them if they had not gotten the spirit when they believed?

Now notice that when they believed also include the baptism in Christ. The Apostles did not count believe as just believe that Christ was the son of God sent to the cross but felt that if you are a believer then you were baptized in the name of Christ per Acts 2:38

They answered Paul saying that they were never taught about the spirit so Paul asked then what were you baptized. See Paul knew that if they were believers they had to have been baptized the problem is they were not baptized properly they were baptized in the baptism of John not in the baptism in the name of Christ. Johns baptism could not give the indwelling spirit it was only given in the baptism in Christ name. The baptism that Christ was to baptize with as John foretold long ago. Then Paul corrected that mishap and baptized them in the name of Christ so they could get the indwelling spirit.


Now one more tidbit here to acknowledge these are now a new church plant and Paul can not stay to grow the church so he now in verse 6
"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."
transfer the power of confirmation of the word to these people by the laying on of hands.


So in conclusion according to scripture the one spirit baptism that Jesus was to baptize with is the one in water in Jesus name that remits sin and gives the indwelling spirit. It is the one that was promised to all not the spirit upon to work the power gifts of confirming the word as it was being recorded. If we study to show ourselves approved and let the bible speak to us we can find the truth in God's recorded word.

 

[Godslittleservant]

I agree with you. The Bible is plain that for us there is one baptism, that baptism being mystically immersed into Christ in His death. As I understanding, water baptism was commanded for Israel in the "kingdom dispensation" if you will, before God rejected Israel (temp) and sent the Gospel straight to the Gentiles.

Water baptism was something the gentile did to become a Jew. This is why the Pharisees were so outraged at John telling them of all people that they needed to be baptized for repentance, as if they were not better than the gentiles.

Much love!

You said " that baptism being mystically immersed into Christ in His death. " really if you take Paul at his word there really i no mystical about The baptism into Christ death. Paul explains it clear as day just trust in his word.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38) were baptized into his death? He then goes on to explain the read the chapter.

The rest of your post is teaching two different gospels and that is a false teaching for there is only one gospel for bot the Jews and the Gentiles.

 

[Godslittleservant]

There is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

The one spiritual baptism is the water baptism in Christ name where as it is the recorded way of getting the indwelling spirit as see in Acts 2:38 and confirmed in Acts 19:1-5

You asked why the baptism in Christ name is the one spiritual baptism we will let the word of God answer this.

Mark 1:7,8
7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Here we see John saying that Jesus is to baptize with the holy ghost. It simply is referring to the giving of the spirit in the baptism in his name that is promised to all.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Here we read that the baptism that Jesus was to baptize with is in his name and remits sin and gives the indwelling spirit just as John had said would come to be.
It is further confirmed in Gods word as to be the truth in Acts 19:1-5

It is made clear that it is water and spirit in Acts 10:47,48

It is the one baptism of Ephesian 4:5

Scripture gives the answer to the one baptism.

 

[marks]

really if you take Paul at his word there really i no mystical about The baptism into Christ death. Paul explains it clear as day just trust in his word.

That was to say, not water, spirit.

The rest of your post is teaching two different gospels and that is a false teaching for there is only one gospel for bot the Jews and the Gentiles.

How so?

Do you know the history of baptism among the Jews? All are saved by trusting in Christ, not by water baptism.

Much love!

 

[St. SteVen]

The reference to Acts 8:14-17 is easy to answer why Philip knew they had not received the Power of confirmation to the word is because he knew he could not transfer that power He had to call on an Apostle to transfer the power to establish the new church Philip had just planted.
Philip knew that they had the indwelling spirit upon their baptism in the name of Christ because that is where God promised to give the indwelling it was the Spirit upon to do the power g ifts of confirming the word as seem in Mark 16:17-20 that Philip called on the Apostle Peter to administer.

I've seen a few on this topic that have the idea that the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is transferred from one person to another,
Simon the sorcerer thought the same thing. Read the response from Peter below. (verses 18-20 below)
Furthermore, Jesus said "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from
or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” - John 3:8 NIV --- We can't put the HS in a box.

Acts 8:14-20 NIV
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!

 

[Godslittleservant]

Absolutely

Genesis = Chicken before eggs = Gospel before ritual = Revelation = "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"

Genesis = "In the beginning God" = Gospel "In the beginning the WORD" = JESUS before all things, HE who created all things

Religion always attempts to reverse/flip-flop the Order/Foundation

Just a thought here Was the gospel not presented in Acts 2 before the command to repent and be baptized everyone one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and you shall receive the gift if the holy ghost?

 

[Godslittleservant]

I've seen a few on this topic that have the idea that the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is transferred from one person to another,
Simon the sorcerer thought the same thing. Read the response from Peter below. (verses 18-20 below)
Furthermore, Jesus said "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from
or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” - John 3:8 NIV --- We can't put the HS in a box.

Acts 8:14-20 NIV
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!

I think you missed the point of Simon the sorcerer . He wanted to buy the gift of confirming the word. you need to reread this passage an you will see that it was transferred from Peter laying hands on some.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Not here to enter into a debate that divides brothers and sisters on the topic of baptisms, law and Shabbath, let's talk about Christ, the cross, resurrection and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

We are born again Christian to stand for the truth in Gods word. If there seems to be unlearned in the truth of scripture and falsely proclaiming Gods word whether by unlearned or bias it is our deed to stand and correct the mishap and teach the truth in Gods word

 

[Godslittleservant]

First of all, we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost at the time of baptism (Acts 2:38) which is not a baptism of the spirit but rather it's indwelling in us by which we are also joined to the body of Christ, the church. The gift (singular, not gifts) of the Holy Ghost is exactly that: the Holy Ghost itself and not the various miraculous gifts administered by the Holy Ghost or Spirit as listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10 as most erroneously believe.

Secondly, the text that you referred to is Luke 3:16 as spoken by John the Baptist,
did in fact happen as recorded in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost, which event was also referred to by Jesus in Luke 24:49 wherein he told his apostles to tarry in Jerusalem until they received power from on high. This was the event that occurred in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost but it happened to only the apostles. THEY received the so called baptism of the spirit which gave THEM the power of the spirit to perform miracles as well as enable the miraculous manifestation of the various gifts of the Spirit by the laying on of their hands as noted in Acts 5:12, Acts 8:17-18, and Acts 19:6.

This no longer happens today as there are no longer apostles by whose hands the miraculous gifts can be manifested.

So agree with this my brother finally a voice of reason Amen my brother spoken as the true oracles of God.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

I concur with the apostles part, what about the rest?

This is an easy answer the Apostles part is 4:11-14 It had a time and purpose as listed it was till the new church had all the new teaching (new recorded new testament)which God has confirmed and no longer needs to confirm his word.

The rest is growing the church in unity of the word.

 

[David in NJ]

Just a thought here Was the gospel not presented in Acts 2 before the command to repent and be baptized everyone one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and you shall receive the gift if the holy ghost?

ABSOLUTELY

Which is the Emphasis and Foundation upon which the outward meets the inward.

Inward first, outward second.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Yes. Water baptism is a picture or an “it is like.” It is similar to when Jesus would say, the kingdom of heaven is “like” thus and thus, using something that we do see in the temporal world to explain a heavenly thing that we don’t see with our physical eyes. Water baptism is…ceremonial. Spirit baptism is what water baptism SPEAKS of.

All of the sacraments of the church are like this. Physical circumcision speaks of the real circumcision in spirit and truth, which is Gods cutting of a man’s heart so it is tender towards Him and His working there.
The marriage sacrament speaks of the heavenly and eternal joining.
All of the sacraments are pictures of the heavenly. They are patterned after heavenly things just as the temple was patterned after the one in heaven.

What does the bible say water baptism is that is the question not what I think it is but what God says it is.
God said it was for the remission of sin and where he will give the indwelling spirit Acts 2:38 now is that not enough to believe God says it is for remission of sin and giving of the spirit lets look at other verses God has given to back his word so we can not say he did not say such.
Romans the whole of chapter six Paul deals with what the baptism Into Christ (the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ Acts 2:38) is all about and what GOD does in that baptism you really need to study that chapter for Paul tells you what happens (what God does ) in this baptism and why it is important to your salvation.
In Acts 10:47,48 Peter makes it clear that the baptism spoken of in Acts 2:38 and Romans 6 is indeed a baptism in water
In Acts 19:1-5 Paul makes it clear that the baptism of Acts 2:38 and Romans 6 and Acts 10:47,48 is in fact where God gives the indwelling spirit as promised

Not Colossians 2:10-13
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
This is also referring to the baptism in Christ name of Acts 2:38

Notice inn Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Baptism in Christ name (acts 2:38) is where one puts on Christ

There are many of scriptures dealing with what baptism in Christ name does. It is not just a simple symbolic ritual but a true work that God our father is preforming on us.

 

[St. SteVen]

Johns baptism could not give the indwelling spirit it was only given in the baptism in Christ name. The baptism that Christ was to baptize with as John foretold long ago.

- What baptism did John the Baptist provide?
- What baptism did Jesus receive from John the Baptist?
- Did Jesus receive the Spirit?
- If so, indwelling, or for power?
- Was there a laying on of hands? (to impart)

- What was the purpose of the baptism that Jesus' disciples administered? - See John 4:1-3

- Did Jesus disciples lack the indwelling Spirit?
- What baptism were they told to wait in Jerusalem for?

 

[St. SteVen]

Inward first, outward second.

YES!
Baptism is a religious ceremony.
A religious ceremony should be an outward sign of an inward reality.
The outward ceremony does not CREATE the inward REALITY.

 

[St. SteVen]

I think you missed the point of Simon the sorcerer .

On the contrary, my good fellow.

 

[Godslittleservant]

- What baptism did John the Baptist provide?
- What baptism did Jesus receive from John the Baptist?
- Did Jesus receive the Spirit?
- If so, indwelling, or for power?
- Was there a laying on of hands? (to impart)

- What was the purpose of the baptism that Jesus' disciples administered? - See John 4:1-3

- Did Jesus disciples lack the indwelling Spirit?
- What baptism were they told to wait in Jerusalem for?

If you have followed me in my postings on this and other similar topics I have already answered these questions over and over again search my postings to gather the answers.

 

[ElieG12]

Ask yourself: Were Jesus' apostles anointed with holy spirit as they accompanied Jesus everywhere?

If your answer is NO, then how can you think that anyone who say so today is really annointed with the Holy Spirit of God? Some people today think they are superior than the apostles of Jesus.

 

[David in NJ]

YES!
Baptism is a religious ceremony.
A religious ceremony should be an outward sign of an inward reality.
The outward ceremony does not CREATE the inward REALITY.

@St. SteVen says: "The outward ceremony does not CREATE the inward REALITY."


CONFIRMED by the WORD = John 5:24

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

 

[Godslittleservant]

@St. SteVen says: "The outward ceremony does not CREATE the inward REALITY."


CONFIRMED by the WORD = John 5:24

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

not to be picky here but could believe in him also me to be baptized in Christ name

Acts 9:1-5
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

See the question Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed Unto what then were ye baptized?

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

See when the Apostle see you as believers they see you as being a Baptized believer in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[David in NJ]

not to be picky here but could believe in him also me to be baptized in Christ name

Acts 9:1-5
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

See the question Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed Unto what then were ye baptized?

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

See when the Apostle see you as believers they see you as being a Baptized believer in the name of Jesus Christ

The First Movement of the Spirit unto Salvation is thru the hearing of the Word.

First with our physical ears = Romans 10:14
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

Second with our heart(spirit) = Romans 10:8
The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Third is with our mouth/confession = Romans 10:8
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.