Reading vs Hearing

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WhiteKnuckle

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I figure this is the best time to post my ideas about reading comprehension vs hearing. Somethings I've been thinking about for a couple of weeks.

This idea came to me as a result of people at work trying to interpret the employee handbook regarding break times. I don't know the exact wording, because I didn't read it. My lead hand explained it to me. It says something like this.

" Employees who work an 8 hour shift get 2 fifteen minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch. First break is on the second hour, the second break after lunch is on the 6th hour. If an employee works 10 hours a 3rd break is on the 9th hour."

There's a big misunderstanding and many of the employees are being cheated out of a break. Many of the leads and a couple of the foremen are interpreting that, the 3rd break is at the END of the 9th hour. Some of them have also assumed, in order to get a 3rd break, you must work 11 hours. It's funny they would think this and not rationalize that ALL other breaks are roughly every 2 hours.

So, I began thinking of this, and was reminded of all the different interpretations people have about the Bible. It seems to me, that if someone were to speak the words of the employee hand book, more people would understand what it said.

I've noticed this on several occasions. Any of us who've tried to use an instruction manual to put together a childs toy can relate.

See, our brains are hardwired to sound. For every note in the tonic scale we have a neuron that fires for that particular note. Such as, If you hear a C#, your brain has a specific neuron that fires and your brain recognizes chemically the tone of the note.

It's proven, that a womans voice registers in the same part of a mans brain as music. Those neurons that recognize tonic notes, are the same ones that fire when men hear women speak. (Remember that next time you don't understand your wife)

Now, Visually, we learn to recognize colors, and shapes, and depths, and distance. Even though, we have a cognative recognition of these things, there are no certain neurons that are directly related to color. Such as, When we see the color blue, there's no "Blue Neuron" as there is a C# neuron. Our mind is trained to recognize these other things as a learned process. Not an automatic process.

It stands to reason, that communication is originally intended to be by hearing. Remember the verse, "Faith comes by HEARING, and HEARING, by the word of God" or this one, "The sheep HEAR my voice". This also makes sense, because, when learning to read, we are taught, "Sound it out.". Most children learn to read by saying the words they read outloud. This in turn seems to "attatch" sound to visual.

When reading, we tend to attach certain emotions to words. We tend to put pauses, inflection, and certain poise on words based on our learned experience in vocal communication. Just as colors influence our moods to a degree based on learned emotions and experiences dealing with the colors

Just as we don't have neurons dedicated to colors, or shapes, we don't have neurons that are dedicated to comprehending writing. Although, studies have shown reading comprehension registers in the same part of the brain as vocal communication.

It seems that we have a problem in translating a written form, with shapes, and combining them with our own inflection, while trying reconcile a thought process that is automatic. This is a difficult thing for the mind to process.

We don't naturally associate the color blue, with the C#, although, in Blues music, there is the "Blue Note". We can train our minds to do this, but, the end result would be so chaotic it would almost be like taking acid.

In the same sense, our mind is trying to use, the tonic scale of vocal communication, and applying it to shape recognition. We're trying to match all 12 notes of the western scale, with all 26 letters of the alphabet, and combining them together to form a recognizable word.

I think this explains why there's soooooo much miscommunication in written script, than there is in vocal script.

Maybe if we don't understand something, we should read it out loud a few times and see if it begins to make sense. We should even try using different inflections and tone added in different spots. If this post seems confusing,

Just think what your brain is trying to do when you read.
 

veteran

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One of the main problems I think we have is also with outside influence of ideas also. On the 9th hour means at the start of that hour, not the end of it, so those who see it differently have to have some other idea in their mind influencing 'how'... they're interpreting it.

Our interpretation of life is not only influenced by what we selectively choose to 'see', but also by preconceived notions we might have that originate from various influences in the world. What ideas we've been exposed to and have accepted can have a direct bearing on our interpretation. Peer pressure belief can influence our interpretation if... we allow it.

It takes inner strength to hold to a truth that the majority around us oppose. But our Lord Jesus expects us to 'overcome' that, and not be afraid to hold steady to His truth, whatever the costs, even if it brings suffering upon ourselves.

One would be surprised just how much we are influenced daily by outside sources acting upon us. Consider throughout just the period of one day, how many ideas you actually came up with that are your's, and did not originate from someone else, or some media advertisement, something you read, etc. Might be surprised just how little freedom from outside influence we have, even during the short period of one day.
 

TruthSeeker2012

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WK, if you shared all your personal beliefs with a person and that person said "AMEN, I agree" to all your comments, you would praise that person and say they have good comprehension. But as soon as someone rejects your teachings, shows your teachings are in biblical error and corrects you, then all of a sudden that person has poor comprehension.

It's very clear where the real problem lay.

Also something you need to understand and comprehend yourself..is that if you filled a room with 100 Christians and had a person sharing their beliefs, not 100% of the audience will come to the exact same conclusions what the speaker was sharing. Do you know why WK, or you want me to explain why to you?

The same principle applies to Christians in general, millions of people around the globe can be given the exact same Bible, KJV for example, yet after reading the entire KJV, they will split and separate into many different sects or denominations and believe the KJV teaches differently. Do you know why WK, or you want me to explain why to you?

God bless.
 

prism

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(Rev 1:3) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

At first blush this sounds as if it doesn't matter whether one 'reads' the Word or 'hears' it but I think the picture is that 'one'/he reads while 'they' hear...as in an assembly. Years ago in scholl my grades improved greatly when I started reading my homework assignments OUTLOUD. :)
 

TruthSeeker2012

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(Rev 1:3) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

At first blush this sounds as if it doesn't matter whether one 'reads' the Word or 'hears' it but I think the picture is that 'one'/he reads while 'they' hear...as in an assembly. Years ago in scholl my grades improved greatly when I started reading my homework assignments OUTLOUD. :)

Amen, good post. I think the retention levels are more open when reading and hearing.

God bless.
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

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Jan 6, 2012
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Just think what your brain is trying to do when you read.

You make a very good point, but your analysis omits the deeper reality of those with selfish agendas purposfully and willfully skewing the obvious meanings of words to achieve their own goals. They do this because they do not seek the common good, but their own. There are some like this on this board, who have a satanic spirit, and are enemies of the cross of Christ. They have bible knowledge and appear like one of the team, but twist scripture to teach things that lead away from the cross. They cannot hear what they are reading because they do not conform their thoughts to the spirit and cross of Christ. Yet feeling a need to be bible teachers, they dream and imagine things that God never intended, nor said. Consequently, it would be naive for us to think that everyone here has the same goals, and are merely suffering from misunderstandings.
 

WhiteKnuckle

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You make a very good point, but your analysis omits the deeper reality of those with selfish agendas purposfully and willfully skewing the obvious meanings of words to achieve their own goals. They do this because they do not seek the common good, but their own. There are some like this on this board, who have a satanic spirit, and are enemies of the cross of Christ. They have bible knowledge and appear like one of the team, but twist scripture to teach things that lead away from the cross. They cannot hear what they are reading because they do not conform their thoughts to the spirit and cross of Christ. Yet feeling a need to be bible teachers, they dream and imagine things that God never intended, nor said. Consequently, it would be naive for us to think that everyone here has the same goals, and are merely suffering from misunderstandings.

True. Although, I left these thoughts out purposely. My post was describing some of my ideas with a few specifics in mind. I guess I should stated that. The specifics are,

1: The reader is genuinely just trying to understand.
2: There are no mental disorders
3: The reader is using only their own comprehension based on life experiences. (Which you mentioned, and is a very valid point, and explained well.)
4: The reader is not using "outside" sources, such as, Being lead by the Holy Spirit, or in some cases demons. (As we know, and you also pointed out has a definate effect on what a person percieves when they read the Bible.)
5: The writing is not expressly just the Bible, but, in every other form of written media.


The pupose of me posting my theory is not an attack on any member of this forum, or anyone in general. I had planned on posting this, but, since there seems to be a miscommunication happening here I thought it appropriate.

My goal here, is maybe to give an idea, that might help communication efficency, and maybe provide a little patience for people involved incase of a direct, or indirect misunderstanding.
 

veteran

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True. Although, I left these thoughts out purposely. My post was describing some of my ideas with a few specifics in mind. I guess I should stated that. The specifics are,

1: The reader is genuinely just trying to understand.
2: There are no mental disorders
3: The reader is using only their own comprehension based on life experiences. (Which you mentioned, and is a very valid point, and explained well.)
4: The reader is not using "outside" sources, such as, Being lead by the Holy Spirit, or in some cases demons. (As we know, and you also pointed out has a definate effect on what a person percieves when they read the Bible.)
5: The writing is not expressly just the Bible, but, in every other form of written media.


The pupose of me posting my theory is not an attack on any member of this forum, or anyone in general. I had planned on posting this, but, since there seems to be a miscommunication happening here I thought it appropriate.

My goal here, is maybe to give an idea, that might help communication efficency, and maybe provide a little patience for people involved incase of a direct, or indirect misunderstanding.

That's the way I understood the main sense of your post, that you were not pointing at anyone here on this forum about hidden agendas and such.

Factors independent of that can simply be a lack of understanding the language (like lack of understanding the meaning of certain words, conjunctions etc.). Some people are dislectic, they easily get things reversed because of problems with brain function. Some don't really read, but only scan over words. Some have problems with short-term memory loss. And something it took me a while to really believe is true, some people cannot do abstract reasoning nor visualization.
 

TruthSeeker2012

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OR another way to look at this is.. the recipient has completely understood what the other person is saying and teaching, but concluded their teachings and doctrines are in error, hence, they reject them. That does not mean the person has reading or hearing problems, and to suggest so is evil and not good, it only means the person understood and rejected.

I feel it's very nasty and evil to turn on someone and accusing them of being mentally handicapped or as having reading and understanding disabilities, just because that person has rejected what the other person is teaching.

Each person will give account to God at Judgement day for their actions. That's good enough for me.

This is how people will know the true Disciples of Jesus:

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

God bless.
 

WhiteKnuckle

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OR another way to look at this is.. the recipient has completely understood what the other person is saying and teaching, but concluded their teachings and doctrines are in error, hence, they reject them. That does not mean the person has reading or hearing problems, and to suggest so is evil and not good, it only means the person understood and rejected.

I feel it's very nasty and evil to turn on someone and accusing them of being mentally handicapped or as having reading and understanding disabilities, just because that person has rejected what the other person is teaching.

Each person will give account to God at Judgement day for their actions. That's good enough for me.

This is how people will know the true Disciples of Jesus:

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

God bless.

This is a good example of what I've been trying to explain to you. Nothing I posted here has anything to do with what you're saying here.

That's the way I understood the main sense of your post, that you were not pointing at anyone here on this forum about hidden agendas and such.

Factors independent of that can simply be a lack of understanding the language (like lack of understanding the meaning of certain words, conjunctions etc.). Some people are dislectic, they easily get things reversed because of problems with brain function. Some don't really read, but only scan over words. Some have problems with short-term memory loss. And something it took me a while to really believe is true, some people cannot do abstract reasoning nor visualization.

No kidding! I have a hard time accepting this too. There's quite a few people I know that can't.
 

veteran

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No kidding! I have a hard time accepting this too. There's quite a few people I know that can't.

I had to have an elective from Psy, so I took a course called Cognition. It involved studies the field did with how our mind works. It showed why telephone numbers were originally set at 7 digits. It's because they discovered that's how our short-term memory stores information best, in sets of 7's. Lot of their studies was on abstract reasoning ability, etc.

I didn't believe it possible that some people don't have the ability to think abstractly or visualize in their mind, until I wondered why a pipefitter friend of mine always did most of the welding while letting the other guy he was working with visualize their pipe layouts. So I asked him why. He said he could not 'see' the pipe runs in his mind. I was shocked, simply because visualizing that is something I do very well. So I started my own little study (in secret) with my co-workers. After a while I was forced to admit it; some simply don't have that ability. But I think they can still develope it to a certain degree, even though the results show it's not a natural ability some are born with.
 

TruthSeeker2012

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Keep it simple, don't complicate the gospel and salvation and accuse others of being lost just because they may disagree with you.

Matthew 18:3-4 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

God bless.
 

jiggyfly

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I had to have an elective from Psy, so I took a course called Cognition. It involved studies the field did with how our mind works. It showed why telephone numbers were originally set at 7 digits. It's because they discovered that's how our short-term memory stores information best, in sets of 7's. Lot of their studies was on abstract reasoning ability, etc.

I didn't believe it possible that some people don't have the ability to think abstractly or visualize in their mind, until I wondered why a pipefitter friend of mine always did most of the welding while letting the other guy he was working with visualize their pipe layouts. So I asked him why. He said he could not 'see' the pipe runs in his mind. I was shocked, simply because visualizing that is something I do very well. So I started my own little study (in secret) with my co-workers. After a while I was forced to admit it; some simply don't have that ability. But I think they can still develope it to a certain degree, even though the results show it's not a natural ability some are born with.

Vet, that's an excellent observation. I like the direction of discussion in your post.
1 And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him. 2 Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.
Romans 12:1-2 (NLT)

I think we get into trouble when we try to figure anything out concerning spiritual truths without the help of God. It is obvious with some here, that not only are they trying to reason the scriptures with their carnal mind but that they are like those you mention and lack the ability to understand. Is it any wonder that God must change the way that we think in order for us to know His will.
 

TruthSeeker2012

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... not only are they trying to reason the scriptures with their carnal mind but that they are like those you mention and lack the ability to understand. Is it any wonder that God must change the way that we think in order for us to know His will.

If someone 100% agrees with every single doctrine you teach, would you then conclude they have a good ability to understand truth and Bible?

And if someone does not 100% agree with all your doctrines, do you then conclude that they have a lack of ability to understand truth and Bible?

God bless.