Reason for The Crusades explained

[Matthias]

What he expressed before is some kind of false dichotomy. OT. NT.

I haven’t expressed a false dichtomy.

“You have heard that it was said, but I say to you …” - Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, Son of God.

It's OK if God commands us but not OK if we decide for ourselves - with much prayer and divine affirmation - that war is justified.

Listen to Jesus and the Apostles. Follow their example. As history documents, the earliest Christians loved and obeyed the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles. They didn’t kill their enemies.

Of course, I tore into this like you wouldn't believe.

It’s your nature to tear into the pacifistic church.

I've pointed out the Jihadi's have done a lot worse than gather sticks to keep warm on the Sabbath.

You haven’t pointed out that Christian jihad is as bad and worse than Islamic jihad. Ergun Caner and Emir Caner, two Muslim brothers who converted from Islam to Christianity, have. So have other right minded Christians.

 

[Armour of God]

Some people would love to see it fall. But

 

[Matthias]

Some people would love to see it fall. But

View attachment 83696

Do you have any idea about how many Christians stand against the teaching of Roman Catholicism and its bloody history?

It’s true that some people, many people, would love to see Christianity fall. I’m not one of them, and it isn’t going to fall.

 

[Anchorite]

@Wrangler thinks the world would be a wonderful place, if we just killed all the bad people.

Crusaders killed, raped, and pillaged Jews, Muslims, and other Christians. Yet the Crusades were dismal failures. No Christian can support the vile Crusades.

 

[Matthias]

Anything passing for Christianity that doesn’t align with the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles will fall @Armour of God. Neither Jesus nor the Apostles instructed the followers of the Messiah to kill their enemies. He and they taught us to love our enemies, and that’s what evangelizing them is.

 

[NayborBear]

1 Corinthians 6:3Don’t you realize that we will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disputes in this life.

This is a good reference!
Here's another one that may help!:
Genesis 6:2
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

These "Sons of God" which left their Heavenly Habitation to which they had been assigned, were/and still are called "nephilium=Fallen Ones!"

These ARE of same ilk that the dragon swept (conspired) with to "ATTEMPT" AN "OVERTHROW" of the Most High's Throne, in an "event known, or referred to as "the Katabol!"
You can read about such ones' as these in the Book of Jude, or even the Book of Enoch, should you be so inclined, as well as other places in the Bible!

These ARE "ENEMIES" of the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Light!
Furthermore? If you don't "mind" dying because of them?
I can assure you, that ALL through HIStory?
They sure as heck don't MIND Killing you!
One day you SHALL see and understand!
But from what I'm reading?
It CERTAINLY isn't TO-day!

 

[NayborBear]

It’s your nature to tear into the pacifistic church.

Far as I'm concerned?
Tis NOT the "pacifistic church" that I myself fight/war against!
Tis the ones' of the aforementioned "Katabol" that has infiltrated the "Church" to such high degree as to have very apparently and quite successfully caused the "Churches" to put "God in a box", of the which? Makes so much the truer of the "end times famine!"
And you may refer to this quite "educationally ()" if you will, as: "SPIRITUAL ILLITERACY!"
Where it seems you are more a "victim" OF, than a "warrior" FOR!

And I know I'm not going to SAVE anyone! (that's WAY above my pay grade)
Simply letting the ones' who are able to see and hear?
There's much MORE to "Christianity", than "churchianity!"
(true story)

 

[Matthias]

Pope Urban reinstated the Truce of God at the Council of Clermont. Are you familiar with it? (It will be of little, if any, interest to @Wrangler.)

”Urban reinstated the ‘truce’ so that he could inaugurate a war and still maintain the appearance of restraining violence. The ten points of Truce of God are a strange amalgam of courtesy and carnage:

’Dearest brothers in the Lord, these are the conditions which you must observe during the time of peace which is commonly called the truce of God, and which begins with sunset on Wednesday and lasts until sunrise on Monday.

1. During these four days and five nights no man or woman shall assault, wound, or slay another, or attack seize, or destroy a castle, burg, or villa, by craft or by violence.

2. If anyone violates this peace and disobeys these commands of ours, he shall be exiled for thirty years as a penance, and before he leaves the bishopric he shall make compensation for the injury which he committed. Otherwise he shall be excommunicated by the Lord God and excluded from all Christian fellowship.

3. Allwho associate with him in any way, who give him advice or aid, or hold converse with with him, unless it be to advise him to do penance and to leave the bishopric, shall be under excommunication until they have made satisfaction.

4. If any violator of the peace shall fall sick and die before he completes his penance, no Christian shall visit him or move his body from the place where it lay, or receive any of his possessions.

5. In addition, brethren, you should observe the peace in regard to lands and animals and all things that can be possessed. If anyone takes from another an animal, a coin, or a garment, during the days of the truce, he shall be excommunicated unless he makes satisfaction. If he desires to make satisfaction for his crime he shall first restore the thing which he stole or its value in money, and shall do penance for seven years within the bishopric. If he should die before he makes satisfaction and completes his penance, his body shall not be buried or removed from the place where it lay, unless his family shall make satisfaction for him to the person whom he injured.

6. During the days of peace, no one shall make a hostile expedition on horseback, except when summoned by the count; and all who go with the count shall take for their support only as much as is necessary for thenselves and their horses.

7. All merchants and other men who pass through your territory from other lands shall have peace from you.

8. You shall keep this peace every day of the week from the beginning of Advent to the octave of Epiphany and from the beginning of Lent to the octave of Easter, and from the feast of Rogations [the Monday before Ascension Day] to the octave of Pentecost.

9. We command all priests on feast days and Sundays to pray for all who keep peace, and to curse all who violate it or support its violaters.

10. If anyone has been accused of violating the peace and denies the charge, he shall take the communion and undergo the ordeal of hot iron. If he is found guilty, he shall do penance within the bishopric for seven years.’”

(Christian Jihad, pp. 86-87)

 

[Matthias]

Far as I'm concerned?
Tis NOT the "pacifistic church" that I myself fight/war against!

It is the church which @Wrangler and his concealed identity church fight / war against, supported by @Armour of God.

Tis the ones' of the aforementioned "Katabol" that has infiltrated the "Church" to such high degree as to have very apparently and quite successfully caused the "Churches" to put "God in a box", of the which? Makes so much the truer of the "end times famine!"
And you may refer to this quite "educationally ()" if you will, as: "SPIRITUAL ILLITERACY!"
Where it seems you are more a "victim" OF, than a "warrior" FOR!

And I know I'm not going to SAVE anyone! (that's WAY above my pay grade)
Simply letting the ones' who are able to see and hear?
There's much MORE to "Christianity", than "churchianity!"
(true story)

I’m glad you mentioned salvation. Pope Urban had a twist on that too, as I will shortly go on to demonstrate using the Caners’ book Christian Jihad.

 

[Matthias]

“On Tuesday, November 27, 1095, Urban sounded the summons for what would be a centuries-long movement. In Constantinople, Alexis had requested aid from the pope, and Urban saw this as his great opportunity. ... One of the chroniclers of the historic synod, Robert the Monk, reported that Urban exclaimed:

’Jerusalem is the navel of the world; the land is fruitful above others, like another paradise of delights. This the Redeemer of the human race has made illustrious by his advent, has beautified by residence, has consecrated by suffering, has redeemed by death, has glorified by burial. This royal city, therefore, situated at the centre of the world, is now held captive by his enemies, and is in subjection to those who do not know God, to the worship of the heathens. She seeks therefore and desires to be liberated, and does not cease to implore you to come to her aid. From you especially she asks succor, because, as we have already said, God has conferred upon you above all nations great glory in arms. Accordingly undertake this journey for the remission of your sins, with the assurance of the imperishable glory of the kingdom of heaven.’

In one short paragraph as recorded by Robert the Monk, Pope Urban II overturned one thousand years of Church teaching. …”

(Christian Jihad, p. 88)

Think carefully about this: “Christian jihad is for the remission of your sins.”

Is that consistent with what Jesus and the Apostles taught?

@Wrangler and his concealed identity church and @Armour of God are supporters of the action taken by Pope Urban II. I invite both of them, specifically, to answer the question I posed.

 

[Matthias]

While it’s fresh on your mind that Urban used an appeal for his help from Alexis, I want to bring to your attention an incident from the First Crusade before I forget it. In regard to the battle for Nicea in 1097 -

”At the battlefield, the Christian forces numbered a quarter of a million men. About one hundred thousand Turks were behind the city walls. Two walls surrounded Nicea, and 370 towers were spaced around the perimeters. A deep moat also surrounded the city, and high mountains shielded the eastern border. The Christian troops built nineteen camps, and attacked the fortified city on three sides. After seven weeks of intense fighting, it seemed the crusaders were on the verge of victory. It was at this crucial moment that Alexis, the eastern emperor who had issued the call to Urban II for help, surprised the crusaders and sent a detachment of his troops to help the Turks.”

(Christian Jihad, pp. 99-100)

Bold is mine.

How about that? @Wrangler and @Armour of God

 

[Matthias]

I don’t know what @Wrangler and @Armour of God think about it - they don’t have an issue with Christians killing Christians - but the crusaders were none to happy that the Christians whom they were sent to help had allied with the Turks against them.

“Enraged by Alexis’s deception, the crusaders demolished the city, and made their next conquest at Antioch a quick one. After the crusaders seized Antioch, they travelled south to Jerusalem. Arriving on March 7, 1099, the troops waited approximately three months to attack. On June 13, the battle commenced. It was nothing short of unbridled carnage.“

(Christian Jihad, p. 100)

”Unbridled carnage.” That will appeal to and excite some here, as we have seen.

Compare and contrast it with the response of Jesus, the Apostles, and the early Christians to the persecution of the Romans.

Sad that the Crusades ended? Want more unbridled carnage?

 

[Matthias]

I want to say something here about Ergun and Emir Caner. From the excerpts of their book which I have been quoting from, one might be left with the impression that they are pacifists. They are highly critical of the Crusades, but they are not pacifists.

”… it is one thing to have Christians in the army, serving under a secular power. Because we live in a fallen world where injustice must be stopped and life must be defended, Christians can serve in the military and remain a godly influence and moral agent. The entire concept of Just War is built on this premise. It is another thing altogether, however, to field a Christian army to kill the enemy in the name of Jesus Christ.”

(Christian Jihad, p. 107)

Now recall, if you will, what @Wrangler said in post #1818 about those who ”go against the history of millions of Christians over the centuries” - which is what the Caner’s have done. Wrangler’s strong desire to kill Muslim enemies (and other enemies too, I’m convinced) is, at least in part, what makes him unable to distinguish between good in Christian history and bad in Christian history.

 

[Anchorite]

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

These "Sons of God" which left their Heavenly Habitation to which they had been assigned, were/and still are called "nephilium=Fallen Ones!"

These ARE of same ilk that the dragon swept (conspired) with to "ATTEMPT" AN "OVERTHROW" of the Most High's Throne, in an "event known, or referred to as "the Katabol!"
You can read about such ones' as these in the Book of Jude, or even the Book of Enoch, should you be so inclined, as well as other places in the Bible!

These ARE "ENEMIES" of the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Light!
Furthermore? If you don't "mind" dying because of them?
I can assure you, that ALL through HIStory?
They sure as heck don't MIND Killing you!
One day you SHALL see and understand!
But from what I'm reading?
It CERTAINLY isn't TO-day!

Oh, so how many of these nephilim did Jesus, Paul, and Peter kill?

Do you know what a martyr is? Someone who wants to live, but will not kill his enemies to avoid being killed by them.

Jesus told us what to do:

Turn the other cheek.
Love your enemies.
Do good unto those who abuse you.
Pray for those who persecute you.
Resist not an evil man.
Blessed be the peacemakers.
Put away thy sword.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

[Matthias]

“Urban effectively declared a holy war on Muslims who held Jerusalem. Christians had taken on as much guilt as Muslims who declared a jihad. The Just War criteria had been replaced by a theology of retribution. Christians no longer had mere permission to serve in the army. The army was now explicitly Christian. It was not the state as the temporal authority that sanctioned military conflict. The pope himself gave the orders. Cessation of violence was not the ultimate aim of the war, but rather eternal forgiveness and the promise of heaven. The new war theory was both brutal and unbiblical. Urban promised that whoever lifted arms against the Muslims entered into a holy war and would be saved. Either by shedding the blood of the infidels, or by dying on the battlefield, the warrior was promised salvation.”

(Christian Jihad, p. 89)

If the reader closed his or her eyes and listened to an unidentified voice say, “He promised that whoever lifted arms against the enemy entered a holy war and would be saved. Either by shedding the blood of the infidels, or by dying on the battlefield, the warrior was promised salvation” … Is it possible that the person could conclude that the voice was that of a Muslim?

Have you ever heard a Muslim say anything even remotely like that? I have.

 

[Armour of God]

 

[Matthias]

View attachment 83697

Christianity has a life, a good long life, which recognizes the Crusades were a disaster, not only for Christianity, but also for the non-Christian world.

Christians killing our Christian and non-Christian enemies makes the world a darker place.

 

[Matthias]

“In the end, the First Crusade was the only successful expedition during the three centuries of battle over the Holy Land.”

(Christian Jihad, p. 100)

Let us consider the outcome.

God ordered the Crusades, blessed the efforts of the crusaders, and rewarded them with … success?

 

[Matthias]

View attachment 83697

Have you ever slaughtered a human being?

Have you seen photographs of human beings - Christian and non-Christian alike; men, women, and children - who were slaughtered by Muslims, by Christians, by anyone?

 

[Anchorite]

Only if you deny the teachings of Jesus!