Reason for The Crusades explained

[rockytopva]

Does it violate the important rule when used as a weapon against Christians who aren’t “armed, ready to kill”?

Christians, “armed, ready to kill”? What I read into the story Iryna Zarutska's killer actually went to church with his family. What he did with the weapon was totally not Christian. There are times Christians, “armed, ready to kill” are just as terrorist as it can get.

I do not know any Christian here who supports “armed, ready to kill”?

Killing of Iryna Zarutska - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[rockytopva]

Is he still around?

I listened to some of his videos on youtube a few years back and he seemed pretty good.

A concern would be many of the preachers from India subscribe to a few hindu teachings too.

Over in India they have many "gods" and frequently when some one says they accept Jesus and got saved it means they believe Jesus is one of many ways unto salvation.

Zac Poonen's teaching attracts millions of views... I believe over 20 million with these two sites combined.

CFC Daily Devotions - Zac Poonen

About Us - Christian Fellowship Church, Bangalore The church of believers that meets at Christian Fellowship Church (CFC) today, commenced with a few families that first met together in Bangalore, India, in August 1975. They decided to be disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, first themselves, and...

www.youtube.com

CFC India - Zac Poonen

We are a church of disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, since 1975, emphasizing new birth, holiness of inner life, mutual love, moral purity, financial integrity and sharing God's truth with others.

www.youtube.com

 

[Matthias]

Christians, “armed, ready to kill”? What I read into the story Iryna Zarutska's killer actually went to church with his family. What he did with the weapon was totally not Christian. There are times Christians, “armed, ready to kill” are just as terrorist as it can get.

I do not know any Christian here who supports “armed, ready to kill”?

Killing of Iryna Zarutska - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A member registered “Christian” is teaching it in this thread. He doesn’t deny that he is.

 

[rockytopva]

A member registered “Christian” is teaching it in this thread.

I personally like to reason things out to the best of my ability before taking action. I do not want to end up a bully here. But want to be a member just like the rest of us.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Zac Poonen's teaching attracts millions of views... I believe over 20 million with these two sites combined.

I was just listing to his message at

And he falsely claims Paul was sick and God refused to heal him.

Error such as that must be why I quit listening to him.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Iryna Zarutska's killer actually went to church with his family.

Well, he was a calvinist ya know.

If you read up about the BTK killer (Dennis Rader), he was a calvinist too.

Calvinists think they can live like the devil and still be saved.

They are mistaken as they will find out once they die and go south rather than north

 

[rockytopva]

Well, he was a calvinist ya know.

If you read up about the BTK killer (Dennis Rader), he was a calvinist too.

Calvinists think they can live like the devil and still be saved.

They are mistaken as they will find out once they die and go south rather than north

I will take the time to like that one!

 

[Matthias]

”You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill” Is a man made statement and not Bible.

Very good answer. Maybe, if he hears enough people whom he respects say it, he’ll reevaluate it and change his mind.

 

[Matthias]

“Why in the name of all that is just, merciful, and humble, would a priest have a gun?

Even military chaplains don’t have guns. The Geneva Conventions underscore their noncombatant role in war. The U.S. Navy forbids chaplains from qualifying with weapons, earning warfare qualifications, or bearing arms.

A priest with a handgun? Canon law forbids all clerics - bishops, priests, deacons - from anything ‘unbecoming to their state.’ That would include working as a bartender, driving a cab or, one would think, carrying a gun.

Protection is not a do-it-yourself affair. While some municipalities provide police presence for major locations and clerics - St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York and its cardinal archbishop, for example - the concept of a gun-toting padre is beyond the pale.”

Priests and guns

Just Catholic: In thinking of the shooting death of a Phoenix-area priest last week, I have to ask: Why would a priest have a gun?

www.ncronline.org

I’ve never had the experience of Roman Catholic clergy saying to me, ”You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.” If I ever do - which is highly unlikely - I would ask if he himself lives by that teaching. Of course he doesn’t.

Then I would ask him why he is saying to a Christian clergyman - which is what I am - that I must do what he must not do. Would he dare respond by saying that I’m ”a man in form but not in substance”? I don’t think so. He’s much too wise to say something that foolish.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

“Why in the name of all that is just, merciful, and humble, would a priest have a gun?

Self defense, which is not a sin.

A priest with a handgun? Canon law forbids

Funny you didn't post scriptural reverences for this.

St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York and its cardinal archbishop, for example - the concept of a gun-toting padre is beyond the pale.”

They teach false doctrine so the evil spirits are very happy with them

I’ve never had the experience of Roman Catholic clergy saying to me

If anyone ever introduces me to a catholic priest dude and says "I'd like you to meet father so and sow"

I'll have to repeat what Jesus said right to the guy's faces as I refuse to call him "father"
Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

The catholic priest dudes aren't "father", but then again I don't participate in idolatry

 

[Matthias]

Self defense, which is not a sin.




Funny you didn't post scriptural reverences for this.




They teach false doctrine so the evil spirits are very happy with them




If anyone ever introduces me to a catholic priest dude and says "I'd like you to meet father so and sow"

I'll have to repeat what Jesus said right to the guy's faces as I refuse to call him "father"
Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

The catholic priest dudes aren't "father", but then again I don't participate in idolatry

I‘m not the author of the article. I quoted what was written in the article. The simple point is that the Catholic clergy doesn’t carry weapons.

The purveyor of the “You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill“ false teaching supports the Catholic crusaders, I don’t.

I’m also clergy. Clergy (all denominations) may serve in the military but they aren’t “armed, ready to kill.”

The application of the false teaching to clergy (in general) leaves us with the conclusion that those in the clergy (all denominations) are not followers of Jesus.

 

[Matthias]

I quoted what was written in the article.

The author of the article is a female. Applying the ”You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill“ false teaching to females (in general) leaves us with the ludicrous conclusion that females - unless they are “armed, ready to kill” - aren’t followers of Jesus.

 

[Matthias]

“Understood in their original context, these teachings [of Jesus] do not tell us to allow people to abuse us, as though we are to love our enemies but not ourselves. To the contrary, Jesus is giving us a way by which we can keep from being defined by those who act unjustly toward us. When we respond to violence with violence, whether it be physical, verbal or attitudinal, we legitimize the violence of our enemy and sink to his level. When we instead respond unexpectedly - offering our other cheek and going a second mile - we reveal, even as we expose the injustice of his actions, that our nemesis doesn’t have the power to define us by those actions. In this sense we serve our enemy, for manifesting God’s love and exposing evil (the two always go hand in hand) open up the possibility that he will repent and be transformed.”

(Gregory A. Boyd, The Myth of a Christian Nation, p. 40)

The “You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill” teaching is diametrically opposed to the teaching of Jesus.

 

[Matthias]

What was said in this thread by my enemy about men who are not “armed, ready to kill”? Such persons were said to be, ”Men in form not in substance.” In short, they were dehumanized.

“Our refusal to sink to the level of our enemy opens up the possibility that the enemy will see the injustice of his treatment and perhaps be freed from his dehumanizing mindset.”

(Gregory A. Boyd, The Myth of a Christian Nation, p. 40)

Keep in mind that it’s only a possibility that has been opened up. Perhaps the enemy will see and be freed from his mindset; perhaps not. Love your enemy. Open the possibility.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I’m also clergy

Does this makes you more special than those who are not "clergy"?

females - unless they are “armed, ready to kill” - aren’t followers of Jesus.

Well we know that woman are not anointed by the Lord to be in church leadership such as deacons or pastors.

They can minister to other women and children but that cannot be deacons or pastors as that would set them in authority over men which is not biblical. It's out of line with God's order.

 

[Matthias]

Does this makes you more special than those who are not "clergy"?

I believe in the priesthood of all believers. “Unbecoming to their state” (from the article I quoted) -> ”You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill“ (the teaching I’m writing against).

 

[Wrangler]

I do not know any Christian here who supports “armed, ready to kill”?

There are. And there are Christians in military and police forces throughout history who have been “armed, ready to kill”. I find the squeamish, revisionist history among the over-spiritualized today humorous and decidedly not serious.

 

[Matthias]

”You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill” vs. Christian history

”In the first three centuries of the faith … to be a follower of the Prince of Peace meant minimally that one refrained from killing human beings or even being indirectly involved in the killing of other human beings … using violence for any reason whatsoever, under any circumstances whatsoever, was simply not on the radar, was simply off the table for any faithful Christian. That shift [from pacifism to violence] in the early fourth century then was a sea change in the way Christians would henceforth look at the world and their role in it.”

(Father Kerry Walters, “When Christianity Went Imperial: From Pacifism to Violence”)

 

[Matthias]

“Tragically, the history of the church has been largely a history of believers refusing to trust the way of the crucified Nazarene and instead giving in to the very temptation he resisted. It’s the history of an institution that has frequently traded its holy mission for what it thought was a good mission. It is the history of an organization that has frequently forsaken the slow, discrete, nonviolent, sacrificial way of transforming the world for the immediate, obvious, practical, and less costly way of improving the world. It is a history of a people who too often identified the kingdom of God with a ‘Christian’ version of the kingdom of the world.

For the first three hundred years, this wasn’t so. …”

(Gregory A. Boyd, The Myth of a Christian Nation, p. 75)

The “You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill” teaching is the tragic history of the church.

 

[Matthias]

Continuing where I left off in post #1139 -

“… Followers Jesus during this time saw themselves as ‘resident aliens.’ They were a persecuted minority and as such did not dream of corporately exercising ‘power over’ others. Indeed, the church of this time grew - and grew at a mind-boggling rate! This growth came about not by Christians fighting for their rights, as so many do today, but largely by Chritians being put to death! It was during this time that the word martyr, which originally meant ‘witness,’ came to mean ‘one who dies for the faith,’ for dying was one of the primary ways these Christians witnessed for their faith. In fact, many considered it an honor to be allowed to imitate Christ in being sacrificed for the kingdom they were citizens of. …

It’s difficult to overemphasize the change that occurred when in AD 312, the emperor Constantine was converted. …”

(Gregory A. Boyd, The Myth of a Christian Nation, pp. 75, 76)

These followers of Jesus - the atrocious ”You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill“ teaching denies that they were followers of Jesus - were ”Men in form not in substance,” the devil would have you believe. Don’t believe the devil!

The “shift in the early fourth century then was a sea change in the way Christians would look at the world and their role in it.” - Father Kerry Walters. That’s an historical fact. Hold onto it.