Reasons Jews Reject Jesus

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VictoryinJesus

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These are the well accepted attributes that will identify the Messiah - as detailed by the Jews themselves - the undisputed experts on the subject.


No virgin birth
No crucifixion
No resurrection
No divine attributes

If you deny the validity of what the OT explained about the Messiah, you must provide some reasonable argument as to why I should reject the experts who wrote about the Messiah centuries before the fact - in favor of the gospel authors who wrote decades after the fact.
Then I misunderstood you. I thought you said “And again, those attributes do not include a virgin birth, a crucifixion, a resurrection, or any divine attributes.” I assumed you were arguing against them, not for them. My mistake.
 

Gaffer

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Then I misunderstood you. I thought you said “And again, those attributes do not include a virgin birth, a crucifixion, a resurrection, or any divine attributes.” I assumed you were arguing against them, not for them. My mistake.
They don't include any of those. If you read the supplied synopsis of Jewish eschatology and the attributes listed - do you see the Jewish experts claiming the Messiah would be born of a virgin? No, you do not. What are you confused about?
 

Charlie24

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You are assuming facts not in evidence - and authoritatively proven by the OT authors themselves. The Suffering Servant stories are clearly Messianic. Always have been and always will be.

Your blatant misunderstanding of the Bible is extremely tragic. It is only superseded by your clear purpose to join a Christian forum to post lies and hatred. What motivates you? Satan?

There is a clear example of your behavior in the Bible. "Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tested by the devil. He fasted forty days and forty nights, and afterward he was famished. The tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” But he answered, “It is written,

One does not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God
.’ ” Matthew 4:1-4

I understand your desperation to belittle facts you can't dispute. Your opinion of Paul is just that. But believing his story of hearing Jesus talk to him forces you to admit the following: That your omnipotent god was so befuddled, that he got himself killed before completing his ministry - and so had to come back.... decades later... and whisper to Paul - and suspiciously only Paul. And so when Paul then contradicts many of the teachings of Jesus - Christians just lap it up. Why? Because Paul was smart enough to know he couldn't gain power through pagan converts if he told them they had to follow the 613 mitzvot as insisted on by Jesus. So.... Poof! "Hey, Jesus whispered to me in private that you don't have to do all that shit! Isn't that great?? Sign up here!"
Christians are the ones that are confused. Every....single.... time that Jesus was asked - he stated that the Law must be followed - "every whit and tittle, unto the ending of the world". But Paul spit on Jesus and offered you the easier road - and the pagans that are now Christians jumped at the chance.

Dude, you don't even know that the virgin birth story is a known fraud, added by the lying NT authors because they knew it would appeal to their pagan victims. So you using the words 'ignorant' and 'fool' is laughable.

I'm on a Christian forum providing bible Truths that can't be refuted because I have seen Christians in these forums that actually had the intellectual integrity to consider the claims, study them, and ultimately accept them. Please don't insult other Christians by assuming they are as close minded as you. Look in the mirror. Your first response to my uncomfortable Truths was to stick your head in the sand and put me on ignore. Now your tactic is to lash out like some toddler. You are a caricature of the credulous Christian, lapping up every story without thought in your craven lust to see Nana in heaven. Ay caramba....

But let's make it easy for you. Show me the evidence from the OT that shows the Messiah would be born of a virgin. But fair warning. Prepare to be humiliated. :)

You confuse your ability to humiliate the child of God through human reasoning.

That is out the window for the True Believer, "the just shall live by faith."

This is something that the Atheist cannot and will never comprehend.

So continue to ignore the principles of faith, proving your ignorance in the Word of God.
 
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Gaffer

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You are assuming facts not in evidence - and authoritatively proven by the OT authors themselves. The Suffering Servant stories are clearly Messianic. Always have been and always will be.

Your blatant misunderstanding of the Bible is extremely tragic. It is only superseded by your clear purpose to join a Christian forum to post lies and hatred. What motivates you? Satan?

There is a clear example of your behavior in the Bible. "Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tested by the devil. He fasted forty days and forty nights, and afterward he was famished. The tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” But he answered, “It is written,

One does not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God
.’ ” Matthew 4:1-4
"You're full of lies and hatred!! Waaaahh!!"
Whining is always the refuge of the Christian lacking the ability to intelligently rebut a claim. You should just sit back and watch how your betters engage with me. There are intelligent Christians here. Maybe follow their example. Or, you could always just run away again and put me on ignore..... :cool:
 

Gaffer

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You confuse your ability to humiliate the child of God through human reasoning.

That is out the window for the True Believer, "the just shall live by faith."

This is something that the Atheist cannot and will never comprehend.

So continue to ignore the principles of faith, proving your ignorance in the Word of God.
So...... am I off 'ignore' again. You have issues. :disappointed:
 

VictoryinJesus

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These are the well accepted attributes that will identify the Messiah - as detailed by the Jews themselves - the undisputed experts on the subject.
You asked why i’m confused. Im confused by your words. “These are well accepted attitudes that will identify the Messiah” so I can understand better…what attributes do you say are well accepted?
If you deny the validity of what the OT explained about the Messiah, you must provide some reasonable argument as to why I should reject the experts who wrote about the Messiah centuries before the fact - in favor of the gospel authors who wrote decades after the fact.
They don't include any of those. If you read the supplied synopsis of Jewish eschatology and the attributes listed - do you see the Jewish experts claiming the Messiah would be born of a virgin? No, you do not. What are you confused about?
 

Gaffer

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You confuse your ability to humiliate the child of God through human reasoning.

That is out the window for the True Believer, "the just shall live by faith."

This is something that the Atheist cannot and will never comprehend.

So continue to ignore the principles of faith, proving your ignorance in the Word of God.
You speak Truth. The believer has no need for Reason. It's precisely what diminishes their god claims.
 

Charlie24

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So...... am I off 'ignore' again. You have issues. :disappointed:

You've never been on ignore from me. I've had many years of discussion with Atheists.

They are all the same in reasoning Scripture, churning their reasoning of doubt.

Faith and understanding provided by God is foreign to the Atheist, they can only reason with the human abilities.
 
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Charlie24

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You've never been on ignore from me. I've had many years of discussion with Atheists.

They are all the same in reasoning Scripture, churning their reasoning of doubt.

Faith and understanding provided by God is foreign to the Atheist, they can only reason with the human abilities.

@Gaffer

There is something that the majority of self-professing Christians don't know, and most would not understand if shown, let alone the Atheist.

Proverbs 1:23

"Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you."

This is the promise from God that when you are rebuked by the Holy Spirit, and you turn from that wrong doing, forsaking it from the heart, God will make known His Word in the heart of that person, through the outpouring of His Spirit.

This is True Salvation, when man admits he is wrong and God is right. This is when God will give wisdom and understanding.

The following vs 24-31 applies to you, Gaffer.

"Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.

Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord:

They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices."


Your laughter and mocking will turn on you in the end, what you are doing on these forums will be multiplied in sorrow.
 
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Gaffer

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You've never been on ignore from me. I've had many years of discussion with Atheists.

They are all the same in reasoning Scripture, churning their reasoning of doubt.

Faith and understanding provided by God is foreign to the Atheist, they can only reason with the human abilities.
I apologize. Another member keeps putting me on and off of ignore. I should have paid more attention.

It feels special, doesn't it? To claim to have a secret handshake type of 'reasoning' that only your gang understands. I'm content to reject such unevidenced claims and embrace the light of rational human thought. But then, I long ago was able to cast off the shackles of indoctrination that tried to convince me that humans are inferior and in need of saving...... as long as the money kept coming. :)
But that said, it's always fun to see the threats in scripture. "Worship me or suffer!" - doesn't really support the concept of a good and loving god, does it?
 
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Gaffer

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@Gaffer

There is something that the majority of self-professing Christians don't know, and most would not understand if shown, let alone the Atheist.
You seem to ignore the fact that most Atheists are former Christians, often having spent more time in honest study of the scriptures. It's why we often understand more than the self-professed Christians.
 

Gaffer

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You asked why i’m confused. Im confused by your words. “These are well accepted attitudes that will identify the Messiah” so I can understand better…what attributes do you say are well accepted?
OK.... again, I am attaching a typical synopsis of the attributes of the Messiah written by the Jews themselves and accepted by Jewish scholars - You know, the ones who wrote the OT, studied it, were inspired by God by it.


If you bother to read it, you will readily notice that there is not one word regarding the attributes of the Messiah that mentions a virgin birth. So when the gospel authors wrote that a virgin birth would be a way to recognize the Messiah - they were either lying, or sadly ignorant of Hebrew eschatology regarding the Messiah. Tell me which one you think is was - ignorance or dishonesty.
 
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Jim B

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I apologize. Another member keeps putting me on and off of ignore. I should have paid more attention.

It feels special, doesn't it? To claim to have a secret handshake type of 'reasoning' that only your gang understands. I'm content to reject such unevidenced claims and embrace the light of rational human thought. But then, I long ago was able to cast off the shackles of indoctrination that tried to convince me that humans are inferior and in need of saving...... as long as the money kept coming. :)
But that said, it's always fun to see the threats in scripture. "Worship me or suffer!" - doesn't really support the concept of a good and loving god, does it?
<ignored>
 

Jim B

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You seem to ignore the fact that most Atheists are former Christians, often having spent more time in honest study of the scriptures. It's why we often understand more than the self-professed Christians.
You obviously ignore the "fact" -- your claim is unsubstantiated -- that most Christians were not atheists. Most people accept the faith of their parents and other family. However, few people arrive at a sincere faith without first exploring truth and doctrine at some age. However, having done so, most people (unlike yourself) arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

Also, your other claim that atheists have spent "more time in honest study of the scriptures" has no basis. If it does, please provide something other than your own fanciful conjecture.

And your statement that "It's why we often understand more than the self-professed Christians" is fantasy. If you understood more, you would accept the truth. Jesus said to Thomas, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Your inflated ego is clearly blocking you from accepting the truth of God. Why is that?
 

Gaffer

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You obviously ignore the "fact" -- your claim is unsubstantiated -- that most Christians were not atheists. Most people accept the faith of their parents and other family. However, few people arrive at a sincere faith without first exploring truth and doctrine at some age. However, having done so, most people (unlike yourself) arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

Also, your other claim that atheists have spent "more time in honest study of the scriptures" has no basis. If it does, please provide something other than your own fanciful conjecture.

And your statement that "It's why we often understand more than the self-professed Christians" is fantasy. If you understood more, you would accept the truth. Jesus said to Thomas, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Your inflated ego is clearly blocking you from accepting the truth of God. Why is that?
First, my claim was that most Atheists were raised in Christian families.

Now - this is gonna hurt, but you clearly need instruction.

1. Evidence that most Atheists were raised Christian:


Highlight - "Out of all Americans who identify as unaffiliated including atheists and agnostics, 41% were raised Protestant and 28% were raised Catholic according to the 2014 Pew Religious Landscape survey."

2. Evidence that Atheists know more than most Christians about the bible:


Highlight - "In Pew Research Center’s 2019 religious knowledge survey, atheists were among the best-performing groups, answering an average of about 18 out of 32 fact-based questions correctly, while U.S. adults overall got an average of roughly 14 questions right."

Now, I'll wait for you to demonstrate your Character by admitting that on at least these 2 subjects - you didn't know what you were talking about. I will anticipate reading your admission when I return from officiating a wedding as Celebrant. I am a duly ordained Parson for the Universal Life Church and the United Church of Bacon. Because....well.... bacon is real. :cool:
 
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Jim B

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First, my claim was that most Atheists were raised in Christian families.

Now - this is gonna hurt, but you clearly need instruction.

1. Evidence that most Atheists were raised Christian:


Highlight - "Out of all Americans who identify as unaffiliated including atheists and agnostics, 41% were raised Protestant and 28% were raised Catholic according to the 2014 Pew Religious Landscape survey."

2. Evidence that Atheists know more than most Christians about the bible:


Highlight - "In Pew Research Center’s 2019 religious knowledge survey, atheists were among the best-performing groups, answering an average of about 18 out of 32 fact-based questions correctly, while U.S. adults overall got an average of roughly 14 questions right."

Now, I'll wait for you to demonstrate your Character by admitting that on at least these 2 subjects - you didn't know what you were talking about.
From the wikipedia article that you cite: "Accurate demographics of atheism are difficult to obtain since conceptions of atheism vary considerably across different cultures and languages, ranging from an active concept to being unimportant or not developed. Also in some countries and regions atheism carries a strong stigma, making it harder to count atheists in these countries.[1][2] In global studies, the number of people without a religion is usually higher than the number of people without a belief in a deity[3][4] and the number of people who agree with statements on lacking a belief in a deity is usually higher than the number of people who self-identify as "atheists".

And from the Pew Research article, "
Measuring atheism is complicated. Some people who describe themselves as atheists also say they believe in some kind of higher power or spiritual force."

Selective pulling articles and (mis)quoting from them clearly shows that you are fishing for evidence to back up your bolstering of atheism. I suppose you think that you won't be fact-checked, but you're wrong -- on both counts.

You still have never answered my question: why are you participating in a Christian discussion forum to try to prove your atheistic false beliefs? Do you really think that anyone is going to agree with your tragic unbelief? If so, you are, at best, delusional.
 

Charlie24

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I apologize. Another member keeps putting me on and off of ignore. I should have paid more attention.

It feels special, doesn't it? To claim to have a secret handshake type of 'reasoning' that only your gang understands. I'm content to reject such unevidenced claims and embrace the light of rational human thought. But then, I long ago was able to cast off the shackles of indoctrination that tried to convince me that humans are inferior and in need of saving...... as long as the money kept coming. :)
But that said, it's always fun to see the threats in scripture. "Worship me or suffer!" - doesn't really support the concept of a good and loving god, does it?

When you consider the price He paid for your redemption, allowing His perfect Son to be shamed, spit on, beaten nearly to death and hanged on a tree to die, you can rest assured He's dead serious on how you react to the One called Christ.
 
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Charlie24

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You seem to ignore the fact that most Atheists are former Christians, often having spent more time in honest study of the scriptures. It's why we often understand more than the self-professed Christians.

There's a difference in claiming to be saved and actually being saved. I have never believed any Atheist who says he has been saved, including you.