Reconciled to God while enemies !

[brightfame52]

Shall be saved by His/ their Life !cont 4

Shall be saved by His Life ! Who shall be saved by His Life ? All those who were by His Death reconciled to God while they were enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The words much more denotes , now even better , being reconciled, we shall be saved His Life ! One of the things this means is this, all for whom Christ died, and now has been raised again for their Justification [Rom 4:25], after for them having satisfied God's Law and Justice, He now lives to make evident the success of His Redeeming Death, to apply the benefits of His Vicarious Obedience to all for whom He died and reconciled to God, which is the Church that He Loved Eph 5:25, or His Sheep Jn 10, or God's Elect Rom 8, by the efficacious Grace of His Spirit ! 5

 

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Reconciliation is Justification for the simple fact its acceptance, reception, approval with God ! Its the greek word katallassō:

I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour

In God's Favor they are in a state of being approved !

We are approved of God by Christ's Death Rom 5:10. Remember what God said to cain here Gen 4:7

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

God is telling him , if thou do what ir right,do thoroughly and thou wilt be approved, received into favor, lifted up !

Now God told him that knowing that none doeth well or right ! Ps 14:1

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Ecclesiastes 7:20

For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Rom 3:12

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

However God's People, the Seed of the Women, are accepted with Him by the Seed of the Women Gen 3:15 doing well, and so we are reconciled [received into favor] by the Death of His Son + nothing ! which pleased Him for us, Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

God told cain that if he did well he would be received/accepted, but the Holy Seed, its if Christ doeth well that we should be accepted, See the difference ? Those who base their acceptance with God by them doing well, that's the way of cain Jude 1:11

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Seeking acceptance with God in themselves doing well ! And Acceptance with God is Our Justification !

 

[brightfame52]

Reconciled to God by His Death alone !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

One for whom Christ died does not have to be a believer in Christ in order for His Death to reconciled them to God, they can and are unbelievers while reconciled !

God is 100 % completely reconciled to all for whom His Son died, and His death did also redeem them from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Note, it was not the believers faith that did this, neither their repentance did it, but solely by the fact that He died and was made a curse for them, that's what did it, that reconciled them to God and it redeemed them from the curse of the Law, it put them into the favor of God, the word reconciled in Rom 5:10 is the greek word Katallasso:

to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value to reconcile (those who are at variance)
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
to receive one into favour

Rom 5:10

For if, when we were haters of God, the death of his Son made us at peace with him, much more, now that we are his friends, will we have salvation through his life; BBE

God's Law and Justice can never charge them with law breaking or sin, nor their Surety anymore, for all that they owed to God's Law and Justice is finished Jn 19:30

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished [redemption and reconciliation]: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

That word finish in the greek also means pay Matt 17:24

24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

Rom 13:6-7

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

In other words, Christ for all those He died, hath fulfilled or paid in full and completely all that was due to God's Law and Justice, regarding their debts, and nothing else can be owed or charged to them He hath redeemed and reconciled.

Also the word finished in Jn 19:30 is in the perfect tense, which means action that has been once and for all completed in the past, yet its results carry on into the present ! The Elect or those He died for are born as sinners and ungodly in themselves into the world, yet already sin debt free and reconciled into God's peace and favour ! 6 Note:
the elect are legally debt-free at the cross, but they do not experience or enjoy that peace and favor until the Holy Spirit regenerates them and gives them faith.

---

 

[brightfame52]

Reconciled by His Death means Justification !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

All those Christ died for, by His Death alone, have been Reconciled to God, while they themselves are enemies, now if that is True, then they had to be also Justified, because Reconciliation entails that they have been put in a Right standing with God, in His Favor ! The word for reconciliation is katallassō means:

I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour

To be in God's Favor denotes being approved by Him, being accepted by Him much like Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved

It means Highly Favored !

Now for this to be, they have to be Justified from all sin, which they are if and since Christ died for them, having all sin of theirs imputed to Him and not them, leaving them free from the charge of sin, which = Justiciation Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So Rom 5:10 could read and be true like this Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were Justified before God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

No harm is Done ! 6

 

[brightfame52]

The false teaching of one sided Reconciliation !

Many today in organized, apostate false religion, whether from church going folk or folk who have separated themselves from organized religion unto their own form of apostasy, they are liars when they tell us that Christ's Death that effects Reconciliation to God for those He died for Rom 5:10, that its only one sided ! For the Truth of the matter is that His Death effects both, for it reconciles God to man and man to God, because man by nature are at enmity to God, yet it reconciles them to God from their estrangement causing them a return to God, much like what happened with the prodigal son when he said Lk 15 :18,20

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

And he arose , and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off , his father saw him, and had compassion , and ran , and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

Now his returning back to his Father is a beautiful picture of what the Death of Christ alone accomplished and effected upon all those He died for 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

The word returned epistrephō is in the passive voice[caused to turn back or bring back], which means the subject is being acted upon, hence being returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of their soul.

This is the fruitful effect of Christ having bare their sins, and healing them thereby, effecting a reconciliation back to God.

 

[brightfame52]

The false teaching of one sided Reconciliation !2


Now 1 Pet 2:24-25 , this passage shows us if we have eyes to see, how that the death of Christ in Vs 24, called there His Stripes, how that it caused them He took the stripes for, or died for, to return to the Bishop and Shepherd of their Souls in Vs 25 because His Stripes healed them 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

The proof or evidence of the Healing is their return to God, which is also reconciliation of them to Him. The word returned here in the greek is epistrephó and means:

I turn (back) to (towards), (b) intrans: I turn (back) (to [towards]); I come to myself. However its an aorist indicative passive, meaning the person who is turning or returning is being turned, acted upon, its the efficaciousness of the Stripes of Christ that causes the person to turn, who was once gone astray ! Thats the end desired and purposed by God for the death of Christ, to return the lost sheep back to Him, and it was very successful !

The proof of the healing is the sinners being returned to God as exemplified here in the prodigal son Lk 15:18, 20

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

This is evidence from the scripture that Christ's Death also reconciles those gone astray , estranged men and women who are His Sheep, they are brought back to God or again as the Apostle Peter writes 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

That's reconciliation also ! His suffering for our sins, was for the purpose of bringing us back to God if indeed we were of His Sheep or Elect ! 7

 

[brightfame52]

The false teaching of one sided Reconciliation !3


Another scripture passage that proves that Christ's death reconciles the estranged sinner back to God is here Col 1:20-22

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Notice for emphasis "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled"

And how was that Paul ? "In the body of his flesh through death"

Folks what can be more plainer than that, that the Apostle here attributes the reconciliation of the ones " that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works,"

He attributes their reconciliation to God to Christ's Death !!!! He writes that it was through Death ! The word through dia means " on the account of"

This tells us that His death is the causative basis for being reconciled to God experimentally from our enmity and estrangement that we naturally have with Him !

Also the word reconcile here apokatallasso literally means :

to reconcile COMPLETELY, to change from one state of feeling [enmity] to another, to bring back to a former state of harmony, harmonious relations, this depicts the relation man had in Adam with God after his Creation and prior to his fall and disobedience.

The Death of Christ reinstates, restores that harmony with God but on a Higher Level through Spiritual Life given by Christ through New Birth. This was effected through His Death or was on the account of it, for the sake of it !

So with this in mind, whosoever among us who teaches that #1 Christ's Death alone does not effect the complete Salvation of the Ones He died, or #2 That the Reconciliation of His Death is ONLY ONESIDED Reconciliation, they are liars and antichrist's, and this what we have here proves it !

 

[brightfame52]

More on Reconciliation

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The world here in this scripture cannot possibly mean everyone without exception, or every individual without exception as the False teachers tell us , simply because this world is comprised of all individuals who do not have any sins imputed or charged to them ! Everyone in this world meets the criteria of being this Man Rom 4:8

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. And that equates to reconciliation according to 2 Cor 5:19;

But we know this blessing does not apply to all without exception, because by other scripture we are informed of those who do have their sins charged to them Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Which makes it impossible for any of those to be any of that World in 2 Cor 5:19, who had no sins charged or imputed to them, how is it therefore even remotely possible for them to die in their sins ? To be more clear on this matter, the reconciled world in 2 Cor 5:19 is a Saved World because its reconciled Rom 11:11-12,15

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

The reconciling of the world here in Vs 15 is the same as "Salvation is come to the Gentiles" in Vs 11 !

It actually means it [Salvation has come in the application of it] by the Spirit.

Reconciliation by Christ is Twofold, it Reconciled God to man and it reconciles man to God !

So the World in 2 Cor 5:19 is a Saved, reconciled world and 2 Cor 5:20 is a Call to Faith in the Truth of what has already occurred ! Faith cometh by Hearing the Word of Truth, and everyone who has been Reconciled to God, will hear the Truth of it, the Gospel of their Salvation !

So there is no way possible to equate the World in 2 Cor 5:19 with the Unbelievers and them who shall die in their sins Jn 8:24 ! 8

 

[brightfame52]

Receiving the atonement or reconciliation !


Rom 5:10-11

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Many today in organized apostate religion, ignorant are they to the Merits of Christ Saving / Atoning Death, but yet would tell us that they do believe in Christ's Saving, Atoning, Reconciling Death, but then will tell us that millions for whom Christ died, reconciled to God, will yet some how die in Unbelief and in their sins Jn 8:24 and spend eternity in separation from God, so much for Christ's Atoning Death wouldn't you say ?

This scripture is very informative, because it makes a declaration, and that is, those reconciled to God by the Death of His Son in the previous verse Rom 5:10 while they were being enemies, they also BY HIM, the prep DIA is used, receive the Reconciliation or Atonement !

The word atonement in the greek is the word katallagē :

I.
exchange
A.
of the business of money changers, exchanging equivalent values


II.
adjustment of a difference, reconciliation, restoration to favour

Its translated reconciliation

Now Christ causes them to receive it, He bestows it upon them, or He quickens them into an vital and living experience of it, its being saved by His Life.

You see, if Christ's death is an atoning death, it must atone both parties to one another. If His Death reconciled God to them, but yet left them unreconciled to God, then His Death was not an Atoning Death, if He only reconciled God to man, and neglected to reconcile man to God, what good is that ? Was His work perfect and complete ? No it would not have been, but He did also reconcile men to God, men who were enemies to Him in their mind by wicked works, He reconciled them to God Col 1:21-22


And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Thats how they received it BY HIM, not by their freewill, but through Christ ! 8

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 5:10 Reconciled as Enemies !


Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Yes Paul is speaking as a Believer to other believers, but it is instructive as to what he writes accordingly, he writes that they were or had been reconciled to God, while they were enemies, unbelievers, by His Son's Death !

How can and are sinners, who by nature, and while being active enemies to God, hating Him and at enmity with Him in their minds by wicked works Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

How could they nevertheless have been at that time reconciled to a Holy God ?

The scripture tells us, it was by the Death of His Son, Rom 5:10, which means His Death alone, while they were being enemies, had legally removed their guilt before God's Law and Justice, their slate had been wiped clean,and except for that men, cannot be legally reconciled to God and be guilt and condemnation free !

Now this applies only to believers , when they were not yet believers !

All others, while unbelievers and enemies are yet condemned already Jn 3:18 and under God's wrath without hope of ever seeing life Jn 3:36 !8

 

[brightfame52]

Reconciled unto blamelessness !


All for whom Christ died, by His death alone, even while they were enemies, unbelievers, by nature children of wrath, they even then were by His death reconciled to God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we[believers] were enemies[unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now, being reconciled to God while enemies, they had the promise of being saved by His Life.

Also they have another promise to look forward to Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death[Rom 5:10], to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

All those Christ's death alone reconciled to God while they were enemies, they shall all be by that be presented Holy, and Unblameable, and unreprovable in His sight !

If this does not happen to all for whom He died, then His death was an utter failure ! 8

 

[brightfame52]

Those reconciled while enemies shall be saved by His life !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The antichrist folks attempt to distort this blessed Truth of this verse, however they shall be proven liars and inconsistent everytime. The Truths here are most gracious, and cannot be received by the natural mind of man, to give credence to 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

This verse condemns all who falsely believes that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, the only way that could be true according to the Truth in this verse, one would have to become an Universalist, which is also a condemned belief !

Now heres how and why. Paul here is writing to believers, however he states of them, including himself, that even while they were enemies, unbelievers, they were reconciled to God by the death of His Son ! Now to be reconciled to God is to be saved from the penalty of your sins, and to be received into the favor of God. Its the word katallassō and means:

I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour

They are not now in a condemned state before God, but yet they are still enemies !

Now, what is said / promised of those who are reconciled while yet being enemies according to this verse : Notice Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled [while enemies], we shall be saved by his life.

Understand, those already reconciled while being enemies, much more being reconciled, the Promise to them is that they shall be saved by His Life !

There it is, if Christ died for all without exception, and they were reconciled, then the promise of scripture is that they shall be [ A Divine Promise] saved by His Life !

Now, does the bible teach anywhere that all without exception shall be saved by Christ's Life ? The answer is absolutely no !

 

[brightfame52]

Those reconciled while enemies shall be saved by His life ! 2

Now what exactly is that which they shall be saved from if they are already, by being reconciled, saved from the penalty of their sins ? They shall be saved by His Life from being enemies, for remember they are already saved from the penalty of their sins by Christ's death, but still remaining enemies , this they shall be saved from as well. Here is a verse of scripture that is instructive here Lk 1:71-74

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

As unbelievers and enemies we are being held bondage to the enemy of our soul the devil, for it is he that holds us in unbelief the prison, so that we may not believe and be saved as Per Lk 8:12

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Yes, the devil is the Strong man that binds us in a state of nature, thats why it is written Matt 12:29

29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

This means that by nature we are the devils goods, and his ownership is known by our enmity and disobedience and unbelief against God !

We need to be delivered from this strong man the devil, saved from him as implied i Lk 1:71,74,75

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

While we are in unbelief we are in the hand of our enemy the devil. Now, to those who are reconciled to God by His Sons death, while they are enemies, hence being so reconciled, they shall be saved from all their Spiritual enemies by His Life, so that they can serve without fear

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

So if we erroneously teach that Christ died for all without exception, then the consequences of that if we are consistent with the Truth of Rom 5:10 will be Lk 1:74-75

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

 

[brightfame52]

By whom we received the Atonement !

Rom 5:10-11

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Those Christ died for, they did absolutely nothing to receive reconciliation with God, in fact, they by His death alone had been reconciled to Him even while they were enemies / unbelievers Rom 5:10 ! Christ's death did not just make reconciliation possible, and now its up to the sinners He died for to accept it, or repent, or even believe, so that it becomes a fact, no, the reconciliation took place even while they were enemies. When Christ was raised from the dead as their Head, He was reconciled to God, for because of their sins being imputed to Him, He experienced the Father forsaking Him Matt 27:46

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

However upon Christ's resurrection from the dead, it was a evidence that that God had been reconciled to Him and not only Him, but those whom sins He died for, and so by Him alone those He died for receive the reconciliation, it was applied to them !8

 

[brightfame52]

Saved by Grace through reconciliation while enemies !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

When the Apostle writes to believers here these words, He is teaching by and large what it means to be saved by Grace . Grace means the favor of God, and all for whom Christ died, even while they are enemies, and before they believe, and while yet being disobedient, they are saved into a state of reconciliation and Favor , which is Grace, with God, in fact they stand in a state of Grace Rom 5:2

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

The word stand here , the greek word its in the perfect tense, and its an established and fixed station whereby we stand safe, and this is before Faith !

We are in this fixed state of Grace while unbelievers because while unbelievers we have been reconciled to God by Christ's Death, and that word reconciled katallassō means:

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour or Grace

God for Christ's sake alone, has received into Favor, a state of Grace, while those He died for are enemies, unbelievers and disobedient ! Now thats what it means to be saved by Grace, as by the Gift of God. See this way Grace the more shines forth, for God to have us in His Divine Favor, once and for all, while we are disobedient sinners and the ungodly, this magnifies the Grace of God because we did nothing to deserve it, but at the same time we are doing everything and more to forfeit it.

 

[amigo de christo]

Faith in the glorious Lord JESUS the CHRIST . yes indeed .
and the message of this reconcilation is sent by preaching the one true gospel and recieved by THOSE who do BELIEVE in KING JESUS .
Its real simple to sum it all up .
And the answer to the very question of how one can be saved is easily answered by paul and silas
who answered that jailor .
But sirs what must I DO to be saved . BELEIV E
Beleive ye on the Christ JESUS and ye shall be saved . And they went and preached the gospel to that man house .
And they beleived . Now on those feet and let all point to the Glorious Christ of GOD and all things He did teach .

 

[TahitiRun]

Saved by Grace through reconciliation while enemies !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

We are in this fixed state of Grace while unbelievers because while unbelievers we have been reconciled to God by Christ's Death.

What you've actually articulated is often characterized as an "objective" aspect of salvation. It's not the fullness of salvation that we experience through faith, but what Paul states as a factual matter is a part of it. This theme is not unique to Rom 5:10, nor is it restricted to an "elect" group or a subset of humanity.

To put it bluntly, it's application is universal. And it's application is for the "world" at large. Believer and unbeliever alike. In faith or out of faith.

I was up late last night so I'll let AI finish my thoughts:

Universal Extent of Christ's Death

• Romans 5:18
  • Description: Paul contrasts Adam's universal condemnation with Christ's universal justification.
  • Why it is objective: The text links the verdict of "justification and life" directly to Christ's historical act. It applies to "all men" in the same global, objective way that Adam's fall affected all humanity.
• 2 Corinthians 5:19
  • Description: Paul states that God was actively reconciling the world to Himself through Christ on the cross.
  • Why it is objective: The reconciliation is described as a completed cosmic fact. God already chose "not counting their trespasses against them" before individuals ever ask for forgiveness.
• 1 John 2:2
  • Description: John asserts that Christ's atoning sacrifice covers the sins of the entire world.
  • Why it is objective: The scope of Christ's satisfaction for sin is quantitative and universal. It exists outside the believer, covering even the sins of those who do not yet believe.
• 1 Timothy 2:6
  • Description: This verse declares that Jesus gave Himself as a ransom price paid for all people.
  • Why it is objective: A ransom is a legal payment. The transaction was fully paid and completed in history at Calvary, regardless of whether a captive accepts their freedom.
• 1 Timothy 4:10
  • Description: Paul calls God the Savior of all people, with a special emphasis on those who believe.
  • Why it is objective: It establishes a dual reality. God is objectively the Savior of everyone by virtue of the cross, even though that salvation is only subjectively enjoyed by believers.

Salvation as a Completed Historical Fact

• Romans 5:10
  • Description: Paul notes that believers were already reconciled to God while they were still active enemies.
  • Why it is objective: The shift from enmity to peace happened independent of human posture. It was achieved by a historical event—the death of God's Son—not a personal change of heart.
• Colossians 2:13–14
  • Description: Paul describes God wiping out human legal debt by nailing it to the cross.
  • Why it is objective: The "record of debt" was legally canceled at a specific time and place in history. The certificate was destroyed long before modern believers were even born.
• John 19:30
  • Description: Jesus cries out "It is finished" right before His death.
  • Why it is objective: The Greek word tetelestai means "paid in full." It signifies that the work required to secure human salvation was entirely finalized, leaving nothing for humans to add.

Cosmic Restoration

• Colossians 1:19–20
  • Description: Paul explains that God is reconciling all things in heaven and earth to Himself through Christ's blood.
  • Why it is objective: This positions salvation as an objective rearrangement of the universe. Christ altered the legal and spiritual status of creation itself, independent of individual human consciousness.

This should help kick start the conversation. I know you'll object and yell out "IT'S ONLY FOR THE ELECT". But actually it's for the entire world. Including those who perish in destruction of the flesh, that their spirit may be saved "in the Day of the Lord Jesus". Beautiful words.

I see you're a member only, and well known at that, so hopefully you won't be able to delete my posts like you so often did on another forum...lol

 

[TahitiRun]

I was up late last night so I'll let AI finish my thoughts:

AI actually did a poor job of putting together some of the more "objective" aspects of salvation. It missed one of the most important texts. Here it is:

Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes upon Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Sometimes it's helpful to use the Greek text to get a better understanding. You can also double click the Greek terms to get a more in-depth meaning and see if English translations do it justice. Here it is:

Rom 4:5 τῷ δὲ μὴ ἐργαζομένῳ, πιστεύοντι δὲ ἐπὶ τὸν δικαιοῦντα τὸν ἀσεβῆ λογίζεται ἡ πίστις αὐτοῦ εἰς δικαιοσύνην,

The person who "believes (πιστεύοντι) upon Him who justifies (δικαιοῦντα) the ungodly (ἀσεβῆ)", is believing also in it's "objective" act. The declaration that is made by God upon the ungodly is "objective".

The ungodly are not righteous persons with faith but rather are impious, and they are being declared "justified" by God. These are also not your garden variety sinners. No, these are the sinners we sometimes love to hate.

Here are a few examples that show who the ungodly are:

First and foremost, they are those for whom Christ died for:

Rom 5:6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

And here are some of the their more prominent characteristics:

Ti 1:9 knowing this, that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and godless, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers

1Pe 4:18 AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?

The term "Godless" being used by Peter is ἀσεβὴς, the same as Rom 4:5, and it's proceeded by the article ὁ. These are the bad apples. The really bad ones. They are Godless and they are declared justified by God.

2Pe 2:5 and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly.

It took a flood to rid the world of the ungodly. And yet, they now stand justified before God, by the death of Jesus.

2Pe 3:7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

These ungodly men are being reserved for fire by His word. A day of judgment and destruction. And yet, they stand justified before God. And how so? Peter tells us: 1Pe 4:6 For to this the gospel has been proclaimed even to those who are now dead, so that though they were judged in the flesh as men, they live in the spirit according to the will of God.

Jud 1:4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Jude tells us these ungodly persons are marked out for condemnation. Yet Paul stated that they stand justified before God and are declared as such by Him to be so. And yet they deny Jesus and who He is. Even though Jesus died for them.

Jud 1:15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

These illustrations declare who the ungodly are that God justifies. The verb "δικαιοῦντα" is interesting for a couple of reasons that come to mind: It's voice is active. It's being done right now due to the participle acting with the present tense and working contemporaneously with the primary verb in context: λογίζεται.

The final clause is subjective and this is where faith comes in. Those who believe in Him who justifies the ungodly, their faith is accounted for righteousness. The accounting of righteousness, or sometimes called it's imputation, is subjective.

 

[TahitiRun]

The false teaching of one sided Reconciliation !

For the Truth of the matter is that His Death effects both, for it reconciles God to man and man to God, because man by nature are at enmity to God, yet it reconciles them to God from their estrangement causing them a return to God, much like what happened with the prodigal son when he said Lk 15 :18,20

I don't believe that your assertion (in bold) is supported by Rom 5:10. Here is why: The reconciliation according to the text is still one sided. God has taken man and reconciled man to Himself. And, the reconciliation occurs during the period of man's enmity to God. Man's state of being during this period is grammatically presented as a present tense participle that works relative to the act of reconciliation that takes place using the aorist indicative. Here is the English translation:

Rom 5:10 for if, being enemies, we have been reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we will be saved in His life.

It's difficult to get this from the translation itself though.

Also, "we will be saved in his life" is future tense. The fullness of salvation is, as yet, still to come. A companion text that is used by Paul is 2Co 5:19-20, where God reconciles the world to Himself and yet begs his audience (the Church at Corinth, including the saints, or holy ones, throughout the region) to reconcile themselves to God.

2Co 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their transgressions against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 So then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as God is pleading through us. We beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Faith in the glorious Lord JESUS the CHRIST . yes indeed .
and the message of this reconcilation is sent by preaching the one true gospel and recieved by THOSE who do BELIEVE in KING JESUS .
Its real simple to sum it all up .
And the answer to the very question of how one can be saved is easily answered by paul and silas
who answered that jailor .
But sirs what must I DO to be saved . BELEIV E
Beleive ye on the Christ JESUS and ye shall be saved . And they went and preached the gospel to that man house .
And they beleived . Now on those feet and let all point to the Glorious Christ of GOD and all things He did teach .

@amigo de christo