Refuting Penal Substitution Jesus Did NOT Satisfy the Wrath of God On The Cross!!

[bbyrd009]

Substitute equals taking our place. I think you are splitting hairs.

if we believe that Yah needed a sacrifice to make us acceptable to Him--like Adam and Eve did--then yes, Jesus is that substitute, until we get the implications of Who told you that you were naked?

I desire mercy, not sacrifice
No son of man may die for another's sins;

 

[bbyrd009]

 

[Renniks]

if we believe that Yah needed a sacrifice to make us acceptable to Him--like Adam and Eve did--then yes, Jesus is that substitute, until we get the implications of Who told you that you were naked?

I desire mercy, not sacrifice
No son of man may die for another's sins;

But he is our sacrifice, so not sure what you are saying.
And walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Ephesians 5:2 |l

 

[DoveSpirit05]

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." 1 Peter 2:24

"But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. "
Isaiah 53:5-6

1 Peter 2:21, 24-25

21"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:"

24 "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls."

When Peter says, very clearly in verse 21 by "Christ suffered for you." He meant, "Christ bore our sins in his body on the cross." Christ's suffering was the agony of being nailed to the cross and dying there. And his suffering "for us" was his bearing our sins. It was a substitution. He bore them in death instead of our having to bear them in death. It's the fulfillment of Isaiah 53:6.

ur straw maning me!! I agree wiv all tho's verses I just disagree dat Gods wrath was emptied out on him on the cross!! simple as dat, all uv done is just quote verses but not address God wiping people out!! after the cross!!

 

[DoveSpirit05]

But he is our sacrifice, so not sure what you are saying.
And walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Ephesians 5:2 |l

I know coz u never engage wiv wat im saying u just heckle!! ur moving in the flesh man!!

 

[Mike Waters]

Oye kneeds um trans later cores oye wus tort ingirlish wen oye wus at um ingirlish skole hair in ingirlhand.

 

[Renniks]

I know coz u never engage wiv wat im saying u just heckle!! ur moving in the flesh man!!

I'm not heckling, why would you say that? I'm saying what I get from scripture.

 

[SouthernStorm]

jesus says clearly I will not drink from Gods cup of wrath john 18:11 is jesus a liar?

@DoveSpirit05 Jesus is not saying that he will not drink from Gods cup of wrath but rather "shall I not drink from God's cup of wrath?

HCSB bible says
"11 At that, Jesus said to Peter, “Sheathe your sword! Am I not to drink the cup the Father has given Me?”
KJV says "11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
NASB says "11 So Jesus said to Peter, “Put the sword into the sheath; the cup which the Father has given Me, shall I not drink it?”

 

[Nancy]

ur straw maning me!! I agree wiv all tho's verses I just disagree dat Gods wrath was emptied out on him on the cross!! simple as dat, all uv done is just quote verses but not address God wiping people out!! after the cross!!

I guess I really do not know what you want to hear? He removed our sins as far as the East is from the West! I will have to bow out here Dove. This goes nowhere.

 

[Enoch111]

I guess I really do not know what you want to hear? He removed our sins as far as the East is from the West! I will have to bow out here Dove. This goes nowhere.

I was wondering when you would come to this realization. This is another one of those heretical OPs which are becoming common today.

 

[Nancy]

Oye kneeds um trans later cores oye wus tort ingirlish wen oye wus at um ingirlish skole hair in ingirlhand.

 

[Nancy]

I was wondering when you would come to this realization. This is another one of those heretical OPs which are becoming common today.

True that Enoch, where do people come up with this stuff?? My guess? They watch too many Youtube videos

 

[Nancy]

The Heretical Theology of Jesse Morrell of Open Air Outreach

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+...ome..69i57.12700j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Nancy]

More heretical nonsense on this forum.

I suppose we should just rip out scriptures like this:
1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJV
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[bbyrd009]

But he is our sacrifice, so not sure what you are saying.
And walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Ephesians 5:2 |l

well, I desire mercy, not sacrifice, right; so i would say assimilate
No son of man may die for another's sins; however you may

 

[bbyrd009]

God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law.

Who told you that you were naked?

 

[DoveSpirit05]

I suppose we should just rip out scriptures like this:
1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJV
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

is dat true?

 

[DoveSpirit05]

@DoveSpirit05 Jesus is not saying that he will not drink from Gods cup of wrath but rather "shall I not drink from God's cup of wrath?

HCSB bible says
"11 At that, Jesus said to Peter, “Sheathe your sword! Am I not to drink the cup the Father has given Me?”
KJV says "11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
NASB says "11 So Jesus said to Peter, “Put the sword into the sheath; the cup which the Father has given Me, shall I not drink it?”

ok I made a mistake but that's the cup of suffering not the cup of wrath matt 8:16 he bared our sorrows!! acts 2:24 jesus was raised 2 loose the bonds of death not dat he wud be holden of it, as in he wud not hold onto death

 

[Renniks]

well, I desire mercy, not sacrifice, right; so i would say assimilate
No son of man may die for another's sins; however you may

Sacrifices to God are incomplete and even offensive without a changed heart that loves and knows the Lord. First Samuel 15:22 says, “Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to listen than the fat of rams.”
This isn't about whether Jesus was sacrificed for us. It's about what God wants from his people. And pulling out scraps of scripture will never give you the full picture. Jesus was God, not just a man.

 

[SouthernStorm]

ok I made a mistake but that's the cup of suffering not the cup of wrath matt 8:16 he bared our sorrows!!

This verse does not say that "he bore our sorrows"?

Matthew 8:16 ~ "When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick"

acts 2:24 jesus was raised 2 loose the bonds of death not dat he wud be holden of it, as in he wud not hold onto death

It was not possible for Jesus to be held by death because he was sinless. No-one in the world was ever sinless, accept Jesus.

1 Corinth 15
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.