"Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

[tabletalk]

Oh yes He is!

"For where two or three gather in My name, there I am with them." (Matthew 18:20)

I agree.

From Jeremiah 23:
"23
“Am I a God near at hand,” says the Lord,
“And not a God afar off?
24
Can anyone hide himself in secret places,
So I shall not see him?” says the Lord;
“Do I not fill heaven and earth?” says the Lord."

 

[mjrhealth]

Oh yes He is!

"For where two or three gather in My name, there I am with them." (Matthew 18:20)

And that is teh problem is it not, "In His Name".

Can have a church with 10 000 people in it, Jesus is not obliged to be there, now i just one person was in there to seek Him, than Jesus will be with that one.

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Peopel seek to find His Church on this eareth, teh ylook for buildings and men and relgion yet the bible says

1Pe_2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

A denomination is not His church, teh peopel are, dont have to be part of a church to be part of His chruch, as you are a part of His chruch teh moment you go to Him, Wherever you are, there He is.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.- lets add, Jw SdA , cc ccoc cclc - see teh problem
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

 

[H. Richard]

Oh yes He is!

"For where two or three gather in My name, there I am with them." (Matthew 18:20)

***
When Jesus went to the Father (GOD) He said He would send a helper (the Holy Spirit) to the Children of God. Why send a helper in His place if He is here on earth?

Acts 7:55-57
55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God,
56 and said, "Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!"
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord;
NKJV

Was Stephen wrong????

The children of God see Jesus sitting at the right hand of God in heaven. Sitting or standing Jesus is with God the Father in heaven.

 

[Deborah_]

***
When Jesus went to the Father (GOD) He said He would send a helper (the Holy Spirit) to the Children of God. Why send a helper in His place if He is here on earth?

Acts 7:55-57
55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God,
56 and said, "Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!"
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord;
NKJV

Was Stephen wrong????

The children of God see Jesus sitting at the right hand of God in heaven. Sitting or standing Jesus is with God the Father in heaven.

So how do you explain Jesus' words, then? Was He Himself confused?

"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to help you and be with you for ever - the Spirit of truth....
Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make our home with them." (John 14:16,17 & 23)

Seems that all three Persons of the Trinity are with us on earth in some sense, as well as in heaven!

 

[Stranger]

Christ is indeed in Heaven and on Earth. He, as the head of the Body of Christ, sits physically and in Spirit, at the right hand of God, in Heaven. But that same Spirit that indwells Him, extends all the way to Earth and indwells all believers in Christ. Forming His Body. The Church.

(Eph. 5:23) "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."

(Col.1:18) "And he is the head of the body, the church:..."

And so like wise, we who are believers are with Christ in Heaven.

(Eph. 1:3) "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ."

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

If anything speaks of te hugliness of religion

catholic wife, protestant husband, where not allowed to be buried in same cemetry. United in love., divided by religion.

just like the Berlin wall.

 

[bbyrd009]

Seems quite evil, huh. Hard to see it as the perfect system for creating the kingdom. "First, get the meanest monkey" lol...

if the Est'd church dint exist, it would manifest anyway, as long as that is what the people want. See? A perfect manifesting machine.
We just don't know how to drive it yet

 

[justaname]

religion |rəˈlijən|
[SIZE=16.12799835205078px]noun[/SIZE]the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods: ideas about the relationship between science and religion.
• a particular system of faith and worship: the world's great religions.
• a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance:consumerism is the new religion.

Is this how we are defining religion?

[SIZE=22.847999572753906px]religious[/SIZE] |rəˈlijəs|
[SIZE=16.12799835205078px]adjective[/SIZE]relating to or believing in a religion: both men were deeply religious, intelligent, and moralistic | religious music.
• (of a belief or practice) forming part of someone's thought about or worship of a divine being: he has strong religious convictions.
• belonging or relating to a monastic order or other group of people who are united by their practice of religion: religious houses were built on ancient pagan sites.
• treated or regarded with a devotion and scrupulousness appropriate to worship:I have a religious aversion to reading manuals.

Here then is a definition for religious. According to this once you form an opinion concerning God you are the religious.

Acts 11:26
and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. And for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

I am a Christian and honored to be called by such a name. Christianity is a religion according to this definition. I am also religious because I have a formed opinion concerning God and His revelation concerning His Son. Am I then condemned by the OP?

I simply suggest we ought to think before we judge and condemn and choose our words wisely. All "true Christians" are in a religion and are religious if we use these definitions above. The religion is called Christianity and the religious is the individual.

 

[mjrhealth]

Here then is a definition for religious. According to this once you form an opinion concerning God you are the religious.

God doesnt deal in opinions only truth and lie.

Even science is a religion because they make man God.

 

[bbyrd009]

Religion was also once defined as "Man's attempts to reach God," although this definition disappeared as more and more dictionaries were bought up. So, not too surprising that God is deemed the exclusive territory of the religious now, but that does not mean that you are required to accept the world's definitions. I drink a cup of coffee in the morning, religiously. So see how the definition has changed.

 

[H. Richard]

So how do you explain Jesus' words, then? Was He Himself confused?

"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to help you and be with you for ever - the Spirit of truth....
Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make our home with them." (John 14:16,17 & 23)

Seems that all three Persons of the Trinity are with us on earth in some sense, as well as in heaven!

***
You are free to see it as you do and I will see it as I do. Thank for the exchange of ideas.

 

[justaname]

God doesnt deal in opinions only truth and lie.

Even science is a religion because they make man God.

Yes and you are not God, thereby you form opinions....

 

[justaname]

Religion was also once defined as "Man's attempts to reach God," although this definition disappeared as more and more dictionaries were bought up. So, not too surprising that God is deemed the exclusive territory of the religious now, but that does not mean that you are required to accept the world's definitions. I drink a cup of coffee in the morning, religiously. So see how the definition has changed.

Hmmm, your definition is covered in the third bullet point...

• treated or regarded with a devotion and scrupulousness appropriate to worship:I have a religious aversion to reading manuals.

Where is the "Man's attempt to reach God" definition? Author? Copyright date? Publisher?...

 

[bbyrd009]

Hmmm, your definition is covered in the third bullet point...

• treated or regarded with a devotion and scrupulousness appropriate to worship:I have a religious aversion to reading manuals.

Where is the "Man's attempt to reach God" definition? Author? Copyright date? Publisher?...

ah, you are looking for facts, and for that you will need a scholar, sorry. All i can tell you is that i got that from smarter guys than me, although i did have a valid ref for "religion = by rote, ritual" for a while, if i find it i'll post it. However, a search of the phrase "Man's attempts to reach God" https://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&site=&source=hp&btnG=Search&q=%22man%27s+attempts+to+reach+God%22yields some info that may resonate with anyone

"Therefore, religion is defined as man's attempts to reach God. Religion promotes the appearance of self sacrifice, piety, righteous acts, generosity, and even ..."
"The religions of the world are man's attempts to reach God through his good works,through his rituals,through his sacrifices, through his money.But God says this ..."
"Most religions seemed focused on man's attempts to reach God, but Jesus was clearly God's attempt to reach man. Paul's namesake, a highly educated man, ..."

and even

"5 The Tree of Knowledge represents man's attempts to reach God. The Tree of Life represents the life-giving favor that flows from God to us. "

that i guess i'll have to read. You say my definition is covered in the third bullet, but i can't help but note how religion is now deemed "appropriate for worship" there, this has only crept in fairly recently, i have been tracking this def for about 20 years. It has appeared as "by rote, by ritual" has disappeared. And just so it's clear, i'm not meaning to put religion down, ok, i'd much rather have a religious neighbor than a psychotic one lol.

 

[mjrhealth]

Yes and you are not God, thereby you form opinions....

See, if you dont know God, than yes you will form opinions, based on what you hear what you read and who you listen to. Now if you know God that all changes, Se whe nyou know God, you know your opinions count for little and are usually wrong. See God id Love, God is patient (boy is He patient with us and so glad He is, He is also faith full, He is true and He gives good thing to those who love Him. This is not my opinion thsi is fact and true and teh very nature of God. But you see teh "religious have this problem,

Act 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

And that is pretty much what religion is, and God and Jesus do not have to have anything to do with it, they never asked us to build churches or divide teh people by denimination, its the work of mens hands .and teh devil loves it.

 

[bbyrd009]

We even have a record of some people who wanted to build a building for God, rather than what God wanted, and we know what happened to them. Then we have another record, of Christ's model, that no one built any buildings for God in, notwithstanding that one group sought to take "on this rock I will build my Church" literally, despite having no record of Peter building anything physically, and actually having a record of Peter denying Christ "3 times." (heart, mind, gut)

Now i get that this is a lo-pro Catholic site, so don't get me wrong here, i am not meaning to dis Peter, and Protestants follow the same model, with the best of intentions. Humans are very literal, and insist upon definitions to put their minds at ease, not realizing, at first perhaps, that the physical building you might build is an Icon, an Idol, that ignores the Temple we are meant to build, as Priests, and blinds us to Scripture saying as much into the bargain.

For who reading this does not imagine a building (instead of a parable about themselves) when they read "the Church at Corinth?" If you were to go ask anyone on the street where one might learn about God, what would they tell you? "In a church." How much wider does that path need to be, to be made obvious to you?

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as fit for hell as you are!

(of course we are assured that we know the definition of "Pharisees" and "scribes," and that those are strictly OT offices, even as we read "hell" there instead of what is Written, Gehenna.)

 

[bbyrd009]

• treated or regarded with a devotion and scrupulousness appropriate to worship:I have a religious aversion to reading manuals.

notice the subterfuge apparent here in the example; what does "reading manuals" have to do with "a devotion and scrupulousness appropriate to worship?" Aside from perhaps slyly intimating that the Book should not even be read? You wanna believe that def, and question mine, then BAM go ahead, but it is up to you to define the counterfeits, and imo "i went to church because everyone else said that is where to find God" might be forgiven in a newbie, but at some point--possibly when you are challenged about your church admin, and cannot reply to "what behavior?" and "what treatment?"--you are going to be faced with a choice, and you might understand that the herd is not going to be standing behind you when you are judged.

 

[bbyrd009]

Sometimes I wish I was home... but then I look around and realize.. I am home. Which gives me the realization that home is not where you live, but where you feel at peace, feel loved and feel understood.

this is a girl, talking about her congregation. A very nice lady, ok. Yet Christ had no place to lay His Head; which on a spiritual level is surely defined as "God," but also imparts a practical principle imo that should not be ignored.

 

[Truman]

Nice post, but you know it will fall on deaf ears, that bit about eyes to see ears to hear, and you left out tjis bit

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

God bless

Truth

 

[Truman]

I try to share my experience, strength and hope, but each time I get ostracized by Traditional Ritualistic Churchianity. And once I calm down and think of it, I'm reminded to forgive, bless and love. That our fight is not against flesh and blood. I'm at the point where I'm trying to think of a good reason not to blow this pop stand. But the Lord is telling me stay. Anyone interested in the lost tribes? BTW - I know this thread is old, that's okay, maybe I just need to vent.