I say no more... Don't tell me you find 'receiving and trusting the Son', different than 'obeying God's commandments'?! Is not the Son God's Law and Will, and God's Law and Will, the Son?
Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy
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I say no more... Don't tell me you find 'receiving and trusting the Son', different than 'obeying God's commandments'?! Is not the Son God's Law and Will, and God's Law and Will, the Son?
It is His desire that we receive His Son as Savior and trust in him, but He has not commanded us to do so. However, when we obey YHWH's commandments, we are trusting Him and His Son.
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
In this day and age there's no day of rest anymore amongst Christians.
I don't care which denomination you follow.
As soon as you drive your vehicle on saturday OR sunday somebody is working somewhere to keep you on the road.
I don't care which denomination you follow.
As soon as you drive your vehicle on saturday OR sunday somebody is working somewhere to keep you on the road.
Triumph1300
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Jun2u
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To the writer of this OP.
In the Bible Study Forum, I had posted a thread titled “God Changed Seventh Day Sabbath Worship to Sunday Sabbath.”
Go to page 9, scroll down until you find the title. It is only six pages long and then tell us what you think and write down your thoughts on this thread.
Jun
In the Bible Study Forum, I had posted a thread titled “God Changed Seventh Day Sabbath Worship to Sunday Sabbath.”
Go to page 9, scroll down until you find the title. It is only six pages long and then tell us what you think and write down your thoughts on this thread.
Jun
Interesting that most of the discussion is focused on resting. What everyone is missing, or perhaps deliberately avoiding, is the real reason for the commandment. Allow me to quote the first phrase of the 4th commandment...Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy...how are we then instructed to keep the day holy? Through abstaining from work.
Do Christians make the Sabbath holy by abstaining from work, or do they maintain its holiness? Because the real issue is in maintaining the holiness of a day already made holy by a holy God. That day is still holy. It doesn't seem to enter the minds of Sunday apologists and "Jesus is my rest" apologists, and "any day in seven" apologists that God made the Sabbath holy. The real issue we are attempting to resolve here isn't about rest per se, it is about a day! In attempting to set aside the Sabbath, people are attempting to set aside something that is holy, sacred, and set apart for the very purpose of holy pursuits. That is the purpose of the Sabbath. It was made such before any Jew was born...it was made so before sin. Therefore it was set aside, sanctified, made holy, made sacred, given a purpose as a holy day for all that would come after. Nor could it be a shadow for any part of salvation, or a shadow for the ministry of Christ because it was created and established before there was any necessity for shadows or types, as sin didn't then exist.
The Sabbath, the seventh day of the week, is defiled by doing anything that is contrary to a holy purpose. So while pastors etc work on the Sabbath, as Jesus did, that work is for a holy purpose and is therefore not transgressing the commandment. The holiness of the day and the maintenance of that holiness is the purpose of the commandment, it cannot possibly be about Jews only, nor can it be exempt for Christians...because the day itself still exists...it still comes around every 7 days, the very same 7th day God established at creation. It is still a holy day. The 7 day week, the continuing existence of which still after 6000 years, is a testimony of God's stamp of approval on the Sabbath, and still exists despite several attempts to change it into a 10 day or 8 day week.
The holy Sabbath day is still the holy 7th day. It will always be so even in the new earth as testified by Isaiah ...from one new moon to another, and one Sabbath to another, all shall come and worship Me...66:23.
In 3 days the holy Sabbath will arrive again. The question is, what are you going to do with it?
Do Christians make the Sabbath holy by abstaining from work, or do they maintain its holiness? Because the real issue is in maintaining the holiness of a day already made holy by a holy God. That day is still holy. It doesn't seem to enter the minds of Sunday apologists and "Jesus is my rest" apologists, and "any day in seven" apologists that God made the Sabbath holy. The real issue we are attempting to resolve here isn't about rest per se, it is about a day! In attempting to set aside the Sabbath, people are attempting to set aside something that is holy, sacred, and set apart for the very purpose of holy pursuits. That is the purpose of the Sabbath. It was made such before any Jew was born...it was made so before sin. Therefore it was set aside, sanctified, made holy, made sacred, given a purpose as a holy day for all that would come after. Nor could it be a shadow for any part of salvation, or a shadow for the ministry of Christ because it was created and established before there was any necessity for shadows or types, as sin didn't then exist.
The Sabbath, the seventh day of the week, is defiled by doing anything that is contrary to a holy purpose. So while pastors etc work on the Sabbath, as Jesus did, that work is for a holy purpose and is therefore not transgressing the commandment. The holiness of the day and the maintenance of that holiness is the purpose of the commandment, it cannot possibly be about Jews only, nor can it be exempt for Christians...because the day itself still exists...it still comes around every 7 days, the very same 7th day God established at creation. It is still a holy day. The 7 day week, the continuing existence of which still after 6000 years, is a testimony of God's stamp of approval on the Sabbath, and still exists despite several attempts to change it into a 10 day or 8 day week.
The holy Sabbath day is still the holy 7th day. It will always be so even in the new earth as testified by Isaiah ...from one new moon to another, and one Sabbath to another, all shall come and worship Me...66:23.
In 3 days the holy Sabbath will arrive again. The question is, what are you going to do with it?
Again, God's 'Desire' is God's Will is God's Law is God's through Jesus Christ REVEALED LAW. And our 'trusting Him and His Son' is 'when we obey YHWH's commandments' which is as often and grossly flawed by our disobedience and sinning as it was when God's Desire, Will and Law were revealed in the Ten Commandments only.
Says who?
Says 'Triumph1300' against all reality, truth and sense. Were there is 'no day of rest anymore amongst Christians' this second hand plumber can tell you there would have been no Christians plus no Christian Faith.
Try it out and see how long you stay a Christian WITHOUT CHRISTIAN COMMUNION OF THE SAINTS or your 'denomination' inseparable one with your Sundays' assembling together for to worship Christ.
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What you meant to say, is according to teh bible, doesnt sound so "religious" does it,
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
do you see what that says, sin existed before the law, but there was no penalty till the law came. When did God give Moses the Law to give to the Israeltes, how long after Creation.
Sin is anything you want it to be. Getting out of bed late and being angry because you did is sin, that has nothing to do with God or His law.
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Some consider smoking a sin others not, some consider drinking a sin others not, teh greatest sin of all, is unbelief, means you dont trust God. And there is lots of that going around.
I guess you didnt see it
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
So many keeping the law but not wanting teh judgement, But you will be judged by the law as that is what you have chosen, not God s doing your own, forsaking grace to prove yourself by your works which,
Isa_64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Like I said boasting,
Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Rom 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
Rom 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
God bless
I find it intriguing that you admit that Christians moved the day. In this, you are absolutely correct. The question is however, by worshiping and gathering together on another day other than Sabbath, were they defiling Sabbath? Not necessarily. They may have still recognized Sabbath as a sacred day and ceased from work to maintain that sacredness. Allow me to offer you a little history lesson.
Christians did meet in the synagogues along with their Jewish brothers and sisters in the very early years. They, of course, used these opportunities to teach Christ and Him crucified, and resurrected, as you mentioned. The Jewish rabbis however naturally did not take too kindly to this. Persecution (remember Saul/Paul) against the early Christians came from solely Jewish religionists. The Christians of course, as persecution arose, became less bold, or more circumspect and careful in their proclamation of the new faith...to 'out' the Christian believers from the synagogues, the Rabbis devised new prayers that blasphemed Christ. Anyone not joining in was exposed. Christians then began to gather in homes and the riversides etc (remember Lydia). Add to this was the malice against the Jews by Rome which became much more intense as Jewish uprisings by zealots became a thorn in the side of Rome from the second century on. The Sabbath was a uniquely Jewish day, and Christians, not wanting to be associated with or be mistakenly recognized as Jews, compromised as a safety mechanism.Then an additional factor was Mithraism. The worship of Mithra became popular with the Romans, particularly in the military. They worshiped their sun god, yes you guessed it, on the first day of the week, and named it Sunday. Christians, as you would know, were persecuted then by pagan Rome (Satan cared not who his tools were, so long as he had vengeance against Christ) and this continued until the 4th century when Constantine made Christianity, or at least his version of what he wanted Christianity to be, official. In the 4th century, Sunday then became a civil law under the aegis of Constantine, the first emperor to devise such a civil Sunday law. The Roman and Alexandrian churches, both in the 4th century and on having become infected with Greek mysticism and Gnosticism, found the Roman civil law quite convenient and adopted it into canon law.
These factors combined all led to a great falling away from the truth. Although history reveals that some Christians observed both days even into the 5th century, while pagan Rome had ceased to persecute Christians, Papal Rome took up the mantle using pagan Roman emperors as their weapon of choice...until the barbarians took over from pagan Rome in the west and the Popes 'converted' them to be used as their army against Christians that refused to submit to Papal authority. Clovis, king of the Franks was the first of these, although, through manipulation and intrigue and influence, the early popes managed to create wars against 'heretics' by such as the Ostrogoths.
Two principle 'heretical' beliefs incited these wars and persecutions. The first was what we today know as 'Arianism'. Three entire nations were destroyed because of their beliefs on the Godhead (the 3 horns uprooted Romans 7) although it must be admitted the only source as to what those Arians actually come to us from their enemies, as Rome destroyed all of Arius's writings. There is one portion of his writings remaining, but as it comes from that same enemy, there is some doubt as to its veracity. The second cause for persecution of course was Sabbath observance. Rome hated the Sabbath, with a vengeance, and they still do. It is at Rome's instigation that Sunday laws became entrenched anywhere the Roman clerics had influence...this of course was extended through Protestantism as inheritors of this false doctrine, as evidenced the blue laws of early America. Many very large communities of Christian faith and practice observed the Sabbath until such time as Rome forced them to do othewise. The Waldenses, the Celtic church in Britain, and the Assyrian church of the east were such.
An interesting history indeed...and when one considers the paucity of Biblical evidence for Sunday sacredness and the bloody means by which Sunday was promoted and enforced, it should bring about a deep sense of embarrassment for Sunday observers to attempt to justify it today.
Correct. Such actions on the Sabbath are forbidden. When a popular Christian preacher commits adultery, does his hypocrisy make the commandment against adultery null and void? Of course not.
So tell me mjr, how did you acquire this ability to judge another's heart and mind to know what they are thinking and why they do things? The answer is, you don't have that ability. You are simply falsely accusing me because you have no Scriptural grounds to refute my views. Pathetic.
It is grace that drove me to obey my Creator in the first place. When a judge extends grace and mercy to a person who broke his country's law (such as running a red light) and does not punish him as he deserves, it should work in the heart of the law breaker to not commit the same transgression again. That is what YHWH through Yeshua does for us. He extended grace and mercy to us and forgave us all our transgressions. He forgave our adulteries, fornications, thefts, coveting, idolatry, Sabbath desecrations, etc. We deserved death, but He gave us life. How, then, can anyone go back into the world and continue committing those same transgressions that we were forgiven of?? For a so called believer to continue committing adultery after being forgiven of past adulteries is to trample on the blood of Yeshua and on the grace of YHWH. I will do my best, with the help of the empowering Holy Spirit, to not commit any sin. If I do, I still have that grace, mercy and forgiveness available if I confess and repent.
bbyrd009
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First, I am not permitted to post in that thread. Second, there is no page 9 since there are only 6 pages. Third, from what I read, the thread is loaded with error. It would be very burdensome for me to try and reply to it all here. May I suggest you post your best two points here and Ill address them.
This is all as seen from the human point of view on the Sabbath, an angle of approach very seldom found in the Scriptures though. In the Scriptures --the only source of human knowledge about anything "GOD CONCERNING SPAKE"--, the Sabbath is "The Seventh Day GOD, THUS, CONCERNING, SPAKE: And GOD, the day The Seventh Day from and because of ALL, HIS, (finished) WORKS (in and through Jesus Christ of blessing, hallowing and REST), RESTED ... THEREFORE: If JESUS gave them Rest (HIMSELF, "the Rest OF GOD"), there for the People of God remains (necessary and indispensable), a Sabbath Day-of-rest." (For "thus", "God swore, Not, another day!")
But the Sabbatharians and the Sundaydarians all the same close their eyes, their understanding and their hearts to the Divine reality the Lord Jesus Christ’s Day of his, Works of Sabbath Rest, BELONGS TO GOD, not to man to lord it over.
So let us search out, find and define very closely what Christ’s Works of Sabbath Rest were and are, that we may safely forget to even attempt to find out or define what works men are allowed or forbidden on the Lord Jesus’ Sabbath Day. If we follow Jesus in this matter it resolves without much ado about nothing.
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