Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy

[gadar perets]

You are thus saying, '"Let no man therefore judge you ... but LET the Body of Messiah judge."'
You let 'the Body of Messiah' receive the action, "let", "let (judge)", which "you", the Colossian believers, must "not let yourselves be judge" by.
In other words, you are making 'the Body of Messiah' - 'to sohma tou Xristou', first, the Object receiving the action of to "let" / "let (judge)" or "not let" / "not let (judge)", by the believers; and at the same time you are making 'to sohma tou Xristou' - '~the Body of Messiah~', the Subject doing the action of to "judge", THUS IDENTIFYING "anybody" - 'tis' and 'to sohma tou Xristou' - '~the Body of Messiah~'.

That's very messy linguistics as well as logic, as well as perception of the Essence and Substance of Colossians 2:17, in my humble opinion.

No outsider is to judge a believer. Only believers can judge other believers. That is not a judgment unto condemnation, but a judgment as far as what the will of YHWH is. Does YHWH allow us to drive a car on Sabbath? Does He allow us to reheat food on Sabbath? Does He allow us to heal and do other works of ministry on Sabbath? Etc. Outsiders are not to force their answers to these questions on us. We, through the indwelling Holy Spirit that only members of the Body of Messiah have, are the ONLY ones that can make rulings on such matters.

 

[gadar perets]

I believe the darkness began as the darkness at Jesus' Last Passover of Yahweh began, midday "over ALL the land", for the Egyptians, so for Israel, but that God at "mid-afternoon" let the Pillar of Fire bring light for Israel to slaughter their passover lambs and strike their door lintels with blood, as well as to prepare their dough, in order to enter into their homes at sunset from where and as when the story of the exodus really started with "ROASTING" and "EATING THE FLESH WITH UNLEAVENED BREAD THAT NIGHT", Exodus 12:8, right inside their homes. So from there throughout all Scripture other than Exodus, the NEW DATE, of the fifteenth day of the First Month!

The pillar of Fire was nonexistent until Israel was ready to walk out of Egypt. It was to "lead" Israel on their way out.

Exo 13:21 And YHWH went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:​

It was also only used at night, never in the day. If there was three days of darkness as they departed, then the pillar of cloud was not need until Abib 17. As you can see by Exodus 14:19, as they approached the Sea the pillar of CLOUD was before them because they were walking to the Sea during daylight.

Exo 14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:
​

Then, once it moved behind Israel it became both a cloud and fire. The night was about to begin. Israel went through the Sea that night and Egypt eventually followed, but were swallowed up before sunrise.

Exo 14:20 And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night.​

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The verses you quoted for Abib 15 & 16 say nothing about those dates. The verses you quoted about death, blood and the cross all took place on Abib 14. The verses quoted about his resurrection do not pertain to our redemption which is through his shed blood/death, but to our justification (Romans 4:25).

Roman Catholics and Pentecostals believe one is not saved and redeemed when 'only' justified; I am a Calvinist; I believe one is saved and redeemed once for ever when justified through sins being forgiven through Christ "the Lord our Righteousness".

Re: '~The verses you quoted for Abib 15 & 16 say nothing about those dates.~'
They say everything about the mighty DEEDS of God which are the Substance and Essence of those dates, which days and dates by themselves are of no more worth or value for my salvation than my own birthday is.

Re: '~The verses you quoted about death, blood and the cross all took place on Abib 14.~'
Correct. "If Christ were not raised, you, us, are in your sins still" and without "the Power of his Resurrection" as lost as Christ never died for our sins.

Re: '~The verses quoted about his resurrection do not pertain to our redemption~'

May God have mercy on you and "open the eyes of your understanding THAT YE MAY KNOW, WHAT, is the Hope of his Calling and WHAT, the Riches of his Glory .. and WHAT, the EXCEEDING GREATNESS OF HIS POWER us-toward .. according to the WORKING OF HIS MIGHTY STRENGTH WHICH GOD WORKED AND WROUGHT IN CHRIST WHEN HE RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD..." and His Sanctuary -- "all The House of the LORD -- was CLEANSED ON THE SIXTEENTH DAY OF THE FIRST MONTH .. and all uncleanness in the Temple of the LORD was brought out and carried out abroad into Kidron, Brook Dark of Blood .. and the House of the LORD was SANCTIFIED, and IN THE SIXTEENTH DAY AN END WAS MADE ... and an END OF OFFERING..." Ephesians 1:17-19 2Chronicles 29:16-18.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

You mean the same "great Christian translators, interpreters and commentators through the whole Christian era" that also teach us the Sabbath is either abolished or changed to Sunday?

Definitely not. They were not so preoccupied with Sabbath-keeping as you are. They were concerned about the SUBSTANCE AND ESSENCE of this Scripture... "WHICH IS CHRIST"! Go to a library and read them, because you have never read them, I can clearly see. There are rows and rows and shelves and shelves full. But skip those written by Seventh day Adventists or in reaction to Seventh day Adventism.

 

[gadar perets]

Roman Catholics and Pentecostals believe one is not saved and redeemed when 'only' justified; I am a Calvinist; I believe one is saved and redeemed once for ever when justified through sins being forgiven through Christ "the Lord our Righteousness".

I'm not getting into a discussion about Calvinism.

Re: '~The verses quoted about his resurrection do not pertain to our redemption~'

May God have mercy on you and "open the eyes of your understanding THAT YE MAY KNOW, WHAT, is the Hope of his Calling and WHAT, the Riches of his Glory .. and WHAT, the EXCEEDING GREATNESS OF HIS POWER us-toward .. according to the WORKING OF HIS MIGHTY STRENGTH WHICH GOD WORKED AND WROUGHT IN CHRIST WHEN HE RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD..." and His Sanctuary -- "all The House of the LORD -- was CLEANSED ON THE SIXTEENTH DAY OF THE FIRST MONTH .. and all uncleanness in the Temple of the LORD was brought out and carried out abroad into Kidron, Brook Dark of Blood .. and the House of the LORD was SANCTIFIED, and IN THE SIXTEENTH DAY AN END WAS MADE ... and an END OF OFFERING..." Ephesians 1:17-19 2Chronicles 29:16-18.

Our redemption was already complete before the resurrection took place. Yeshua's death purchased our freedom from sin.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Our redemption was already complete before the resurrection took place. Yeshua's death purchased our freedom from sin.

For the sake of Jesus Christ, our redemption is never complete before the resurrection took place. "We are SAVED BY HIS LIFE!" Jesus' death is / was the purchase PRICE, the "FINISHED!" Sacrifice, "THE WAGES OF SIN" which is "DEATH", paid.

Did God stop there? For what would He have gone on, first, "to be BURIED", and finally, "TO RISE AGAIN"?

That '~our redemption was already complete before the resurrection~' of Jesus, is GROSS AND FATAL ERROR. "Him, being delivered by the determinate Councel and Foreknowledge of God, (whom) you have taken and with wicked hands have crucified and slain, Him, God RAISED UP..." OR ... we would be "held in death"; our "flesh" would not "rest in hope"; our "soul" would be "held in hell"; the Lord's saved, would "see corruption"; the redeemed of Christ would not have "known the Way of Life"; they would be "full", of misery; would never "see God's Face"; they would stay, "dead and buried", "both in this life and hereafter", "the most miserable of creatures"; and as for Christ, He would never "sit on his Throne"; never would be "by the Right Hand of God exalted"; but even His "Soul", would be "left in hell"; and He, would not have been "RAISED LORD", OR, "ANOINTED"!

What sort of salvation or redemption would we have had, if not the salvation and redemption '~completed~' with, because of, through, in, and to the Glory of Jesus' Resurrection and Life by the Power of which He NOW is our Mediator at the Right Hand of God, "MY GOD AND, YOUR GOD, and MY FATHER, AND, YOUR FATHER." John 20:17 ?!

 

[gadar perets]

For the sake of Jesus Christ, our redemption is never complete before the resurrection took place. "We are SAVED BY HIS LIFE!" Jesus' death is / was the purchase PRICE, the "FINISHED!" Sacrifice, "THE WAGES OF SIN" which is "DEATH", paid.

Did God stop there? For what would He have gone on, first, "to be BURIED", and finally, "TO RISE AGAIN"?

That '~our redemption was already complete before the resurrection~' of Jesus, is GROSS AND FATAL ERROR. "Him, being delivered by the determinate Councel and Foreknowledge of God, (whom) you have taken and with wicked hands have crucified and slain, Him, God RAISED UP..." OR ... we would be "held in death"; our "flesh" would not "rest in hope"; our "soul" would be "held in hell"; the Lord's saved, would "see corruption"; the redeemed of Christ would not have "known the Way of Life"; they would be "full", of misery; would never "see God's Face"; they would stay, "dead and buried", "both in this life and hereafter", "the most miserable of creatures"; and as for Christ, He would never "sit on his Throne"; never would be "by the Right Hand of God exalted"; but even His "Soul", would be "left in hell"; and He, would not have been "RAISED LORD", OR, "ANOINTED"!

What sort of salvation or redemption would we have had, if not the salvation and redemption '~completed~' with, because of, through, in, and to the Glory of Jesus' Resurrection and Life by the Power of which He NOW is our Mediator at the Right Hand of God, "MY GOD AND, YOUR GOD, and MY FATHER, AND, YOUR FATHER." John 20:17 ?!

You seem to be confusing redemption and salvation. Salvation is a process and redemption is one phase of that process. The phase of Yeshua's death has bought our release from sin (redemption). Yeshua's resurrection is another phase. Receiving Yeshua as Savior is another phase, etc. After we spend a lifetime "working out our salvation with fear and trembling" and are resurrected from the dead unto eternal life, our salvation will be complete. However, our redemption from sin is completed long before our resurrection. Yeshua's resurrection is crucial to the salvation process, but it was preceded by his work of redemption.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

You seem to be confusing redemption and salvation. Salvation is a process and redemption is one phase of that process. The phase of Yeshua's death has bought our release from sin (redemption). Yeshua's resurrection is another phase. Receiving Yeshua as Savior is another phase, etc. After we spend a lifetime "working out our salvation with fear and trembling" and are resurrected from the dead unto eternal life, our salvation will be complete. However, our redemption from sin is completed long before our resurrection. Yeshua's resurrection is crucial to the salvation process, but it was preceded by his work of redemption.

What sort of salvation or redemption would we have had, if not the salvation and redemption '~completed~' with, because of, through, in, and to the Glory of Jesus' Resurrection and Life by the Power of which He NOW is our Mediator at the Right Hand of God, "MY GOD AND, YOUR GOD, and MY FATHER, AND, YOUR FATHER." John 20:17 ?!

Would or could our heavenly Father the Father of his only begotten Son from the dead, forget his children like sinner-mothers of sinners do? God forbid!

Jesus spoke those words on the first morning on which He had appeared to any human after his Resurrection on the Sabbath Day before, to Mary Magdalene - "The Good News of - THE RISEN - Christ, to bring it to his disciples - 'learners', "For it is the Totality of the Power of God unto Complete Salvation to every one who believes", "ONCE FOR ALL".

Now you are trying to tell me The Gospel of Christ Raised from the dead was meant only to begin some weird '~process of our salvation~' with his death? That Salvation was COMPLETE since God's Eternal Purpose in Jesus Christ!

Friend, I grew up a Seventh day Adventist. As I always say to my best friend, a Dopper, You okes don't know what great grace you have received in God's Election of Free Grace; but we, free-will slaves, we, have experienced man, EXPERIENCED! what freedom in the assurance of once saved always saved -- always and COMPLETELY saved, is!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

'Redemption' and 'Salvation' and 'Forgiveness' and 'Grace' are ONE AND THE SAME!
Why I am not Roman Catholic.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The pillar of Fire was nonexistent until Israel was ready to walk out of Egypt. It was to "lead" Israel on their way out.

The Pillar of Fire was Christ, eternally present, "God with us", although not always observable with mortal senses.
And the Pillar of Fire became observable as soon as the ninth plague began, which was before the tenth plague when the first born of the the Egyptians were killed, had begun. The Pillar of Fire and Darkness, was, the ninth plage; was, the wrath of God. The Cloud was Christ, The Light to Israel while The Darkness to the Egyptians. The Cloud came in between the sun above so that it would not burn upon the hosts of the LORD and so that the Egyptians would have no light from it. "Thus saith the LORD, Exactly MIDNIGHT will _I_, go out into the midst of Egypt, and all the firstborn of the Egyptians shall die .. and there shall be a GREAT CRY throughout the land .. BUT AGAINST THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL shall not a dog move his tongue that ye may know that the LORD doth PUT A DIFFERENCE -- The Cloud of Fire and Darkness -- between the Egyptians and Israel."

The pillar of fire existed and was observed either as Light or Darkness, from that the ninth plague -- the "three days darkness" as such -- had begun, and lasted until Israel would begin to walk out of Egypt while the Egyptians would bury their dead as the tenth plague, simultaneously, had had begun. The Pillar of Fire and or Darkness --The Presence of the Lord with Israel going out-- from then, was to "lead" Israel on their way out” as its purpose from the fourteenth day of the First Month was, to plague the Egyptians SO THAT Israel was enabled to begin their exodus UNDER IT!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

No outsider is to judge a believer. Only believers can judge other believers. That is not a judgment unto condemnation, but a judgment as far as what the will of YHWH is. Does YHWH allow us to drive a car on Sabbath? Does He allow us to reheat food on Sabbath? Does He allow us to heal and do other works of ministry on Sabbath? Etc. Outsiders are not to force their answers to these questions on us. We, through the indwelling Holy Spirit that only members of the Body of Messiah have, are the ONLY ones that can make rulings on such matters.

A theology and doctrine God may save me from all the days of my life! I have had more than my share of it while I was a Seventh day Adventist and even after, and to this day I am confronted with.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The pillar of Fire was nonexistent until Israel was ready to walk out of Egypt. It was to "lead" Israel on their way out.

Exo 13:21 And YHWH went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

Gadar Perets: '~The pillar of Fire was nonexistent until Israel was ready to walk out of Egypt.~'

Scripture: "Yahweh went before them" – “went before them by day”—before, He “went before them to lead them the way by night”.

 

[gadar perets]

What sort of salvation or redemption would we have had, if not the salvation and redemption '~completed~' with, because of, through, in, and to the Glory of Jesus' Resurrection and Life by the Power of which He NOW is our Mediator at the Right Hand of God, "MY GOD AND, YOUR GOD, and MY FATHER, AND, YOUR FATHER." John 20:17 ?!

Would or could our heavenly Father the Father of his only begotten Son from the dead, forget his children like sinner-mothers of sinners do? God forbid!

Your bold words above are an emotional plea that has nothing to do with the issue. I never said God forgot His children. He was carrying out His plan of salvation step by step.

Now you are trying to tell me The Gospel of Christ Raised from the dead was meant only to begin some weird '~process of our salvation~' with his death? That Salvation was COMPLETE since God's Eternal Purpose in Jesus Christ!

No. Yeshua's death was not the beginning of the process. The process began in the foreknowledge of YHWH before the world began. He foresaw man would sin and devised a plan to save him. Redemption was a step in that process.

Friend, I grew up a Seventh day Adventist. As I always say to my best friend, a Dopper, You okes don't know what great grace you have received in God's Election of Free Grace; but we, free-will slaves, we, have experienced man, EXPERIENCED! what freedom in the assurance of once saved always saved -- always and COMPLETELY saved, is!

"Once saved always saved" is not a Biblical doctrine. I have known several "saved" people throughout my life that renounced Yeshua and walked away from him after anti-missionaries convinced them that he was not the promised Messiah. Others walked away because they loved the world more. Others remain in their "faith", but renounce him by their works of unrighteousness.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

"I know that most men can seldom discern even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions they have formed — conclusions of which they are proud, which they have taught to others, and on which they have built their lives." Tolstoy

I hope everybody on this forum read

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Genesis 3:8

Dämmerung

Dämmerung mit den milden, grauen Augen
schreitet über die Erde. Kühl weht ihr
Athem, weich und kühl, milde wie ruhiger
Athemzug eines schlummergeküssten,
backenrothen Kindes. An lauschender
Ferne ruhendem Rund ein goldenes Glänzen,
matt verscheidend, zerrinnend in zarten,
grauen Duft ...
Oh Ruhe! Ruhe! Gabe der Seligkeit,
die du auf Flügeln der Dämmerung linde
vom Himmel niederschwebst, linde das
Herz mit warmem Hauche, sorgenscheuchend,
berührst, Ruhe, Frieden, Fülle des Seins!
Heut' aus grauen Dämmeraugen blickst
du mich liebreich an und verheissend,
und mein Dank schwillt auf im Herzen,
wie im Auge der seligen Braut warme,
lachende Thränenfluth, - aber mein Herz
muss an verklungene Tage höheren Glückes
denken, da ihm friedevolle Liebe gütig
fromm entgegenleuchtete aus zwei braunen
Mädchenaugen, Sonnen der Liebe.

Otto Julius Bierbaum

Aus der Sammlung Erlebte Gedichte

 

[amadeus]

Genesis 3:8

Dämmerung

Dämmerung mit den milden, grauen Augen
schreitet über die Erde. Kühl weht ihr
Athem, weich und kühl, milde wie ruhiger
Athemzug eines schlummergeküssten,
backenrothen Kindes. An lauschender
Ferne ruhendem Rund ein goldenes Glänzen,
matt verscheidend, zerrinnend in zarten,
grauen Duft ...
Oh Ruhe! Ruhe! Gabe der Seligkeit,
die du auf Flügeln der Dämmerung linde
vom Himmel niederschwebst, linde das
Herz mit warmem Hauche, sorgenscheuchend,
berührst, Ruhe, Frieden, Fülle des Seins!
Heut' aus grauen Dämmeraugen blickst
du mich liebreich an und verheissend,
und mein Dank schwillt auf im Herzen,
wie im Auge der seligen Braut warme,
lachende Thränenfluth, - aber mein Herz
muss an verklungene Tage höheren Glückes
denken, da ihm friedevolle Liebe gütig
fromm entgegenleuchtete aus zwei braunen
Mädchenaugen, Sonnen der Liebe.

Otto Julius Bierbaum

Aus der Sammlung Erlebte Gedichte

Sehr gut mein Freund!

 

[Triumph1300]

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Sehr gut mein Freund!

Would you say something correlates with Genesis 3:8?

 

[gadar perets]

Would you say something correlates with Genesis 3:8?

What does it matter if something in that poem correlates? It is only a poem, not Scripture?

Shabbat Shalom!

 

[amadeus]

Would you say something correlates with Genesis 3:8?

Ich weiss nicht! Du hast es geschrieben. Ich lese... aber Gott hat das Gedeihen gegeben.