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I will share one exceptional experience I had in late 2017. It was a sunny day after work. I was sitting in the foyer and I asked a religious question to myself and received an answer as clear as crystal. I asked another one soon after and received yet another answer in the same way. It was like telepathy, only more intimate. I went home and felt a peace unlike anything I'd ever experienced before. I also felt extremely loved. I assumed thus was to be the new dynamic in my relationship with God. Unfortunately this was the sugar before the rod of correction. I can't for the life of me remember what the answers to my questions were and what I asked. I talked with the Spirit and (I believe it was the Holy Spirit) and He directed me lovingly to finish reading 2 Kings (or 1 Kings I can't recall). Several days later I got a much needed wake up call. But I am better for it, I think. So that was my big interaction with God that still sticks out after all these years. I would do anything to hear His voice like I had back then in 2017 that one time. The sense of Love was incredible, ineffable and illimitable. The Love of God.
If I felt this way all the time then yes, I would agree that it leads to pride. But it only happened once for me. So I think it's kosher. I pray you have a similar experience one day
It sounds like Him to me, and it doesn't have to be nor should it be a rare occurance!!
Now you will find lots of people who never hear from Him, like modern day Pharisees to whom Jesus said they didn't hear His voice!! They don't ever hear from Him and so don't know His peace and what it is like to rest in Him. Yet we should and we should hear from Him everyday called "Today" just like it is written in the Bible!!
So why don't we?
It is because we don't seek Him and His voice. He is always standing at the door speaking to us, but we don't let Him in. So don't just wish it would happen again, instead seek Him!! Yeah - you can and should test the spirits (see 1 Jn 4:1-3) to make sure it is Him, but it is also written "Seek and you shall find. Ask and it shall be opened to you!" It is also written that if you ask for bread is He going to give you a stone?
Now it is not all about just resting in Him, but He is also the Teacher, the Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, and the Everlasting Father, along with the Prince of Peace. Still seek Him everyday call Today, expecting to find Him!! That is what it means to have faith in Him!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Ps 71:17 O God, You have taught me from my youth,
And I still declare Your wondrous deeds.
Why do we praise the Lord?
Ps 71:3 Be to me a rock of habitation to which I may continually come;
You have given commandment to save me,
For You are my rock and my fortress.
What does it look like to have someone, even God, that you may continually come to and know about a commandment of His?
Ps 71:16 I will come with the mighty deeds of the Lord GOD;
I will make mention of Your righteousness, Yours alone.
What does He alone being righteous look like in our lives?
For me, it means their is a person, even the person of Jesus Christ the Word of God, whom I can turn to, talk to and have talk to me. I hear His voice - that small voice of His which I can pick up in words coming to me spirit. And because of that ' I man continually come' to Him and get teachings, comfort, instructions is righteousness, and I find that righteousness is found in Him and in Him alone. Which is to say He is the One who knows the right thing to do, and Him alone that knows the right thing to do! Indeed, He has taught me that - by using His voice spoken to me personally!
And if there is any doubt about Him being God, He also can and often does back up what He says with power. I have seen miracles He has done - hundreds of them, maybe thousands. I have seen people leave wheel chairs and walkers. I have seen legs grow out. I have felt and seen swelling go down even under my own hand when praying, and the number of people who have testify that their pain went away I can not possibly remember.
Still, it is not the miracles, but the relationship with Him that is important! And that means spending time talking to Him and Him talking to you. So what is the commandment I heard that saves me? It goes like this:
Luke 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Faith that He is there to help us comes from hearing Him personally speak to us - and we are saved by faith - that faith to believe He is continually there with us to help us.
So the question in the OP:
Yes - I hear the voice of God every day, and understand that He is continually there for me to talk back and forth with.
Those who confess they hear the voice of the Lord our God Jesus Christ are Christians!! They are His sheep!
And if we want salvation we do need to hear the voice of God!
With all that said, I still understand that we are taught by Him! Some are still being taught the answers to the questions in the OP! And there maybe some who are also just giving Him lip service, but don't really have an interest to hear from Him. That doesn't change my mentioning His righteousness, and His alone - meaning I still keep pointing people to Him and that to hear from Him!
Indeed, why is these questions even being asked on a Christian forum, since it is written that His sheep hear His voice?
And I still declare Your wondrous deeds.
Why do we praise the Lord?
Ps 71:3 Be to me a rock of habitation to which I may continually come;
You have given commandment to save me,
For You are my rock and my fortress.
What does it look like to have someone, even God, that you may continually come to and know about a commandment of His?
Ps 71:16 I will come with the mighty deeds of the Lord GOD;
I will make mention of Your righteousness, Yours alone.
What does He alone being righteous look like in our lives?
For me, it means their is a person, even the person of Jesus Christ the Word of God, whom I can turn to, talk to and have talk to me. I hear His voice - that small voice of His which I can pick up in words coming to me spirit. And because of that ' I man continually come' to Him and get teachings, comfort, instructions is righteousness, and I find that righteousness is found in Him and in Him alone. Which is to say He is the One who knows the right thing to do, and Him alone that knows the right thing to do! Indeed, He has taught me that - by using His voice spoken to me personally!
And if there is any doubt about Him being God, He also can and often does back up what He says with power. I have seen miracles He has done - hundreds of them, maybe thousands. I have seen people leave wheel chairs and walkers. I have seen legs grow out. I have felt and seen swelling go down even under my own hand when praying, and the number of people who have testify that their pain went away I can not possibly remember.
Still, it is not the miracles, but the relationship with Him that is important! And that means spending time talking to Him and Him talking to you. So what is the commandment I heard that saves me? It goes like this:
Luke 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Faith that He is there to help us comes from hearing Him personally speak to us - and we are saved by faith - that faith to believe He is continually there with us to help us.
So the question in the OP:
Do you hear the voice of God? What do you think of people who say they hear the voice of God? Do we need to hear the voice of God?
Yes - I hear the voice of God every day, and understand that He is continually there for me to talk back and forth with.
Those who confess they hear the voice of the Lord our God Jesus Christ are Christians!! They are His sheep!
And if we want salvation we do need to hear the voice of God!
With all that said, I still understand that we are taught by Him! Some are still being taught the answers to the questions in the OP! And there maybe some who are also just giving Him lip service, but don't really have an interest to hear from Him. That doesn't change my mentioning His righteousness, and His alone - meaning I still keep pointing people to Him and that to hear from Him!
Indeed, why is these questions even being asked on a Christian forum, since it is written that His sheep hear His voice?
Nancy
Well-Known Member
This is what I believe has brought so much doubt and sadness and loss into my- life Calvinism. It steals your joy, kills the hope of your salvation and can and does destroy many people's faith. If true, then you and I both will burn forever. But still, I could NEVER go back to the life I lived for decades! Once knowing the truth, how can that even enter the mind? Satan uses certain doctrines to skew our beliefs, and it is something I will never give satisfaction to by purposely walking away from Jesus, never...no matter how much suffering may come my way. There is no where else to go. And only Jesus holds our salvation in His hands.
A statement like this could only be the product of a terrible misunderstanding of what Calvinists actually believe. A true understanding of Scripture in tune with John Calvin's understandings and those of true Calvinists would result in precisely the opposite of what you say here, Nancy. Of course, all praise, glory, worship, and honor be not to John Calvin, certainly, but to God.
There is no greater joy than that, or one that even approaches it, and makes one all the more eager to have his or her faith increased in this life, and to be sight in the next.Well that depends on what you mean by "burning."
I think when you said this, you meant, um, the bad kind of "burning." But we Christians... I mean, it's gonna be great! I can't wait! Absolutely. In Him we live and move and have our being. There can be no greater joy.
And to the original post here, the verse in my signature below speaks to it. Surely the Holy Spirit leads us even minute by minute, but God does not speak audibly to us, because there is no need. In these latter days, He has spoken to us through Jesus. And, in the words of probably my single most favorite hymn:
How firm a foundation, O saints of the Lord,
Is laid for your faith in his excellent Word!
What more can he say than to you he has said
Who unto the Savior for refuge have fled?
How Firm a Foundation
Grace and peace to you, Nancy!
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God is spirit, so we don't hear an "audible" (a voice from sound waves) from Him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Unfortunately, some people come across as religious rather than as spiritual…I think that maybe is what you are feeling.
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back to the OP topic …
Yes I believe that we are to know how to hear His Voice . After all, Jesus said “ My sheep know my voice and the Strange they will not follow.
I’d go as far as to say - In these dark days we’d better know how to hear and recognize His voice!
it will be life or death to us!
God shows us from Gen- Rev that He speaks all the time, and He expects us to listen.
How could anyone at ever get saved if they could first hear Him speaking to -Come!
Only once , way back in 1975 , did I actually hear the audible voice of the Lord . It’s not something that happens often , it’s never happen again.
Saying that does not mean that He can't make His spiritual voice come across with enough power to make our mind think it is audible!!!!
He doesn't do that often!!! And there are good reasons for when He chooses to and not chooses to make His voice so clear and powerful that it seems "audible" to us!!!
One of the main reasons He doesn't often give His voice so much power that it might come across as audible, is that making His voice like that doesn't require much faith and so does not lead us to seeking Him more!!!
That is to say: If we will only listen to Him when it is extremely easy to hear from Him, then we won't go searching for Him and we won't pay attention to Him when it is not so clear, like in a busy situation, He wants us to really want to hear from Him, so He makes His voice available to those who really want to hear from Him. Thus we see "hearing by faith" written and commanded!!!
Another reason, and closely connected, is to make hearing from Him an act of your freewill!! He gave us freewill and is reluctant to violate that option!! So do we freely come to the Lord or are we forced to come to the Lord. He freely gives and do we have to have freedom to choose.
Another reason that I have seen and have had it explained to me, is how easily we are scared when hearing Him. He once told, when asking Him about this; that our spirit is like a bird in a cage. So a loud sudden voice will have a great impact on us, but overly excites and causes us concern. Therefore He needs to be wise when it comes to making His voice loud or quite!! You don't go up to an animal you want to befriend by screaming at it do you?
Another reason is that He like surprising you. It is like a Father playing peak-a-boo with a child. Finding that the Lord is suddenly their is surprising enough, without normally making too much noise. When playing peak-a-boo, we put alot into the surprise but we don't need to actually put to much into the loudness of the noise. You can put a bit more when you have played the gave alot with the child, but a younger child you have to be more careful with it.
Also, when you talk to a friend or at least someone you want to be friendly with, is it wiser to make your voice loud which might come across as aggressive, or wiser to make it sound calm, understanding, and patient?
Still, there is the importance of the message your are bring! A command might need to be put with more force - especially if those being commanded have been ignoring your command. The first words I heard from Him were, "READ YOUR BIBLE", and those words absolutely sounded audible, and they hit me with such force that it felt like I had been hit by a 2 by 4 upside my head! It might be compared to what the people that Moses brought to the Mountain of God heard. They said His voice was like thunder.
The point is that the Lord our God is wise and has a purpose for all He does, and He normally speak to us in what we call that small voice, the His voice can be loud!! Even so loud that our mind might think is was made with sound waves instead of by the Spirit of God!
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Just wonder why the final answer from Calvinists is ALWAYS "You just don't understand Calvinism"?A statement like this could only be the product of a terrible misunderstanding of what Calvinists actually believe. A true understanding of Scripture in tune with John Calvin's understandings and those of true Calvinists would result in precisely the opposite of what you say here, Nancy. Of course, all praise, glory, worship, and honor be not to John Calvin, certainly, but to God.
Well that depends on what you mean by "burning."
Absolutely. In Him we live and move and have our being. There can be no greater joy.
And to the original post here, the verse in my signature below speaks to it. Surely the Holy Spirit leads us even minute by minute, but God does not speak audibly to us, because there is no need. In these latter days, He has spoken to us through Jesus. And, in the words of probably my single most favorite hymn:
How firm a foundation, O saints of the Lord,
Is laid for your faith in his excellent Word!
What more can he say than to you he has said
Who unto the Savior for refuge have fled?
How Firm a Foundation
Grace and peace to you, Nancy!
My answer to that brother, is "you just do not understand free will".
Please please, I've heard it all for decades and it's ALWAYS the same thing over and over. So, IF it is true, which I do NOT believe, then hell will be my final destination as I could never worship a God who does such a thing.
Because it's either that or they're mischaracterizing it ~ or terribly misconstruing it ~ on purpose. But that would be in effect stating they they are lying, and nobody wants to be called a liar...
LOL! Yeah ~ facetiously speaking ~ it's always about free will, for sure. Would you concede that, regarding many things, there is a Godly perspective and a humanistic perspective? I mean, we know God's thoughts and ways are not ours (Isaiah 55:8-9), right? And that doesn't mean that we can't understand...
Well, maybe it is the same thing over and over, but you've apparently... well, stuck to your (misunderstanding and/or misconstruing) guns through it all. But yeah, that's free will for you, for sure...
Well, you do, whether you realize it or not. And that's really all that matters, that you worship Him ~ all three Persons of Him ~ alone. That's really all that matters.
But I would submit to you, Nancy, that if you would truly accepted that God's grace is so, so amazing ~ that the only reason we can choose Him is because of His amazing grace ~ His mercy and compassion ~ then your worship of and love for Him would be so, so much greater. Not to say, really, that your worship of and love for Him is "lacking" (except in the way that it's lacking to some degree for all of us believers; none of us yet worships Him or loves Him as we ought), but still would be so much greater.
Regarding this subject, I'll just point out what Jesus said to the Jews gathered around Him at the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, in response to their imploring Him, "If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." You remember what He said: "I told you, and you do not believe... you do not believe because you are not among my sheep" (John 10:22-30, emphasis added)
So, quite obviously, they can believe, and they can make a free will choice to believe, but they do not make that choice because they are not among Jesus's sheep, which ~ remember what Jesus said earlier in John ~ "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him" (John 6:44), and "...there are some of you who do not believe... This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father" (John 6:64-65, emphasis added).
Nancy, anyone not believing as a Calvinist does on this certainly does not "disqualify" them as a Christian, and neither does it does not make them somehow "less qualified" as a Christian than someone who does. But... it is what it is. No one denies free will. No one, neither John Calvin himself nor Calvinists yesterday or today. No one. But the fact is, God, the Creator and Giver of life, chose us Christians in Him before the foundation of the world. He chose who He would have mercy and compassion on ~ who would be His elect, before any, like Jacob and Esau, had done anything good or bad ~ of His own free will and accord. What you're actually doing ~ and not meaning to, I'm sure, but in effect ~ is denying that God Himself has free will... or at the very least saying that our free will determines His, which is... well, not right. Paul, in Romans 9, anticipates this well, saying:
"You will say to me then, 'Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?'" (Romans 9:19)
And He immediately squashes such a question by asking, rhetorically:
"But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?" (Romans 9:20-21)
But... Hey. Nancy. None of this is salvific... in other words, our salvation doesn't depend on our believing one way or the other on this particular thing. There is no need to argue or think less of each other or, God forbid, love each other less either way we go on this particular thing.
Grace and peace to you, Christian!
Nancy
Well-Known Member
"I told you, and you do not believe... you do not believe because you are not among my sheep" (John 10:22-30, emphasis added)"Because it's either that or they're mischaracterizing it ~ or terribly misconstruing it ~ on purpose. But that would be in effect stating they they are lying, and nobody wants to be called a liar...
LOL! Yeah ~ facetiously speaking ~ it's always about free will, for sure. Would you concede that, regarding many things, there is a Godly perspective and a humanistic perspective? I mean, we know God's thoughts and ways are not ours (Isaiah 55:8-9), right? And that doesn't mean that we can't understand...
Well, maybe it is the same thing over and over, but you've apparently... well, stuck to your (misunderstanding and/or misconstruing) guns through it all. But yeah, that's free will for you, for sure...
Well, you do, whether you realize it or not. And that's really all that matters, that you worship Him ~ all three Persons of Him ~ alone. That's really all that matters.
But I would submit to you, Nancy, that if you would truly accepted that God's grace is so, so amazing ~ that the only reason we can choose Him is because of His amazing grace ~ His mercy and compassion ~ then your worship of and love for Him would be so, so much greater. Not to say, really, that your worship of and love for Him is "lacking" (except in the way that it's lacking to some degree for all of us believers; none of us yet worships Him or loves Him as we ought), but still would be so much greater.
Regarding this subject, I'll just point out what Jesus said to the Jews gathered around Him at the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, in response to their imploring Him, "If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." You remember what He said: "I told you, and you do not believe... you do not believe because you are not among my sheep" (John 10:22-30, emphasis added)
So, quite obviously, they can believe, and they can make a free will choice to believe, but they do not make that choice because they are not among Jesus's sheep, which ~ remember what Jesus said earlier in John ~ "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him" (John 6:44), and "...there are some of you who do not believe... This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father" (John 6:64-65, emphasis added).
Nancy, anyone not believing as a Calvinist does on this certainly does not "disqualify" them as a Christian, and neither does it does not make them somehow "less qualified" as a Christian than someone who does. But... it is what it is. No one denies free will. No one, neither John Calvin himself nor Calvinists yesterday or today. No one. But the fact is, God, the Creator and Giver of life, chose us Christians in Him before the foundation of the world. He chose who He would have mercy and compassion on ~ who would be His elect, before any, like Jacob and Esau, had done anything good or bad ~ of His own free will and accord. What you're actually doing ~ and not meaning to, I'm sure, but in effect ~ is denying that God Himself has free will... or at the very least saying that our free will determines His, which is... well, not right. Paul, in Romans 9, anticipates this well, saying:
"You will say to me then, 'Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?'" (Romans 9:19)
And He immediately squashes such a question by asking, rhetorically:
"But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?" (Romans 9:20-21)
But... Hey. Nancy. None of this is salvific... in other words, our salvation doesn't depend on our believing one way or the other on this particular thing. There is no need to argue or think less of each other or, God forbid, love each other less either way we go on this particular thing.
Grace and peace to you, Christian!
I can understand that as, those He spoke this to were hard hearted and already did not believe, hence-not among His sheep?
""But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?" (Romans 9:20-21)"
This I understand as the Jews then, being jealous that Gentiles were among the same fold or "lump" as they?
Thank you Pin-seaker (you a bowler? tailor? lol) for being kind, I am sorry if I got my dander up a bit...I still love you as A brother
God bless and keep you in Him always!
Well, okay, very well, but again, who ~ or Who ~ is it that has mercy on whomever he ~ or He ~ wills, and hardens whomever he ~ or He ~ wills (Moses in Exodus 33:19, and Paul in Romans 9:15,19)? Whether you realize it or not, you're getting at the key, which is that it is a heart (nature) issue, not a brain (free will) issue.
And as such, it is God Who "gives us a new heart, puts a new spirit within us, removes our hearts of stone and gives us a heart of flesh, and puts His Spirit within us, and causes us to walk in His statutes and to be careful to obey His rules" (Ezekiel 36:26-27). The brain (the will) follows the heart (what God creates us to be), you see. This is the crux of the matter.in the words of Ezekiel, "
Well, we have to understand who Israel ~ God's Israel ~ really is, and thus who true Jews really are, which we can see back in Romans 2...
"For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God" (Romans 2:28-29, emphasis added)
And in addition put a couple of things together in Romans 9 and 11 (emphasis added)...
"...not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but 'Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.' This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring" (Romans 9:6-8).
"What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory ~ even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" (Romans 9:22-24)
"...a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved..." (Romans 11:25-26)
I'm a golfer; my avatar is very descriptive...
You are most welcome, and thanks to you, also!No apology necessary. Same to you! Grace and peace to you!, I am sorry if I got my dander up a bit...I still love you as A brother
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Truth is i would not follow calvin to burger king . STICK IN THE BIBLE SISTER . THE LORD IS OUR HOPE , HE IS OUR SALVATION ."I told you, and you do not believe... you do not believe because you are not among my sheep" (John 10:22-30, emphasis added)"
I can understand that as, those He spoke this to were hard hearted and already did not believe, hence-not among His sheep?
""But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?" (Romans 9:20-21)"
This I understand as the Jews then, being jealous that Gentiles were among the same fold or "lump" as they?
Thank you Pin-seaker (you a bowler? tailor? lol) for being kind, I am sorry if I got my dander up a bit...I still love you as A brother
God bless and keep you in Him always!
I dont know how many times i seen both in the new test and the old , WHERE GOD HIMSELF states
WHY WILL YOU PERISH . ITS NOT my desire that the WICKED PERISH but rather he would repent .
Calvin is one man i would not follow ANYWHERE . BUT JESUS we must follow EVERYWHERE HE LEADS .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Peter reminds us . AND JESUS even said , HOW OFTEN I WOULD HAVE GATHERED YOU ."I told you, and you do not believe... you do not believe because you are not among my sheep" (John 10:22-30, emphasis added)"
I can understand that as, those He spoke this to were hard hearted and already did not believe, hence-not among His sheep?
""But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?" (Romans 9:20-21)"
This I understand as the Jews then, being jealous that Gentiles were among the same fold or "lump" as they?
Thank you Pin-seaker (you a bowler? tailor? lol) for being kind, I am sorry if I got my dander up a bit...I still love you as A brother
God bless and keep you in Him always!
Notice he does NOT say , How often i would have gathered you , BUT IT WAS PREDETERMINED YOU WOULD BURN
HE says HOW OFTEN I WOULD have gathered you , ONLY YOU WOULD NOT . HE DIDNT SAY GOD WOULD NOT
HE SAYS YOU WOULD NOT .
ITS real clear sister that GOD desires none to perish . NOW GOD KNOWS that all who deny JESUS WILL .
GOD HAS PRE DETERMINED that IN JESUS ALONE WOULD THE WORLD BE SAVED . YEAH HE DID PRE DETERMINE THAT .
THAT ALL WHO DO BELIEVE WOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE .
SEE the simplicity of it is , marvel not over things we do not understand .
RATHER JUST PREACH JESUS . The early apostles did . THEY preached the ONLY NAME THEY KNEW COULD save .
AND SO MUST WE . OH ITS TRUE and has been pre and DETERMINED that all who deny HIM WILL BE DENIED .
IT also was pre and DETERMINED that all who BELIEVE WOULD BE SAVED . THAT IS THE MESSAGE .
THE REST I LEAVE TO GOD . HE ALONE has the right to do as HE pleases . BUT THIS I DO KNOW
PREACH JESUS . HE ALONE IS THE SAVOIR .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Sister relax a bit . ALL WE NEED TO KNOW IS THIS . GOD DESIRES NONE TO PERISH
if one comes to JESUS they wont . IF They deny HIM they will .
And ps , NEVER FOLLOW CALVIN . IF i were still military and the drill instructor said GET On those yellow steps cause calvin
said so , I GUESS I WOULD BE DOING SERIOUS PUSHUPS while a muscle bound DI was yelling at me .
DO NOT , and do i repeat , DO NOT follow calvin ever . FLEE that man and never look back .
THOUGH i guess I BE A PREACHING TO THE CHOIR . let us stay dug in the scriptures .
Nobody, amigo de christo, nobody "follows Calvin," not even Calvinists. But he did get Scripture right...
... at least for the most part, regarding soteriology, who does what in salvation, as it were. See above. In the sense that you mean this, others "follow" Jacobus Arminius (a contemporary of John Calvin who got some key things ~ five, to be exact ~ wrong and thus evoked Calvin's response; thus the Five Points of Calvinism), even though most of them don't know it... NOTE: There are not five points to Calvin's beliefs; what are called Calvin's "five points" are really John Calvin's five responses (which are derived from, but really a small part of, Calvin's greater body of work) to the five "points" ~ really objections ~ that Jacobus Arminius made.
Agreed.
Grace and peace to you.
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I want to go back to the OP and what the author of it wrote. So I have added the OP and another statement from the author of the OP, plus I want to note that he, or she, also brought up a Calvinist 'life style' and something about not actually understanding it.
I am not nor ever have been a 'Calvinist' but it does need to be mentioned that being a 'Calvinist' does not necessarily mean you really follow the writings of Calvin! A certain aspect of his writings have clearly been over emphasized by 'Calvinist'. From the writings of his I did read (the Lord had me open and run a Christian bookstore so I did read a little of what he wrote) and it seemed clear to me that his view predestination have been over played by some (but not all) that are trying to follow a 'Calvinist lifestyle'! That is to say from what I read I don't think Calvin was half the Calvinist that many following a 'Calvinist lifestyle" are.
So now to the real problem!!
His sheep do hear His voice. That is a fact recorded in the Scriptures!!
Another fact is that it is Spirit who gives us life, and that His words are spirit!!
Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
Another fact is that the Scriptures are words written, usually in ink and on pages, but even if on your computer or phone, they are still not His words spoken to your spirit by His Holy Spirit!!
Therefore the presupposition are completely wrong in the questions:, "
"Why do we need to hear the voice of God when the Bible is the complete word of God?"
and " Do we need to hear the voice of God when we got the Bible to tell us?"
Those questions supposed that the Bible is the "Word of God" when that is clearly not that case - according to the very writings in the Bible!!!
And this thinking the orderly lines of text that we can read alittle here and there is shown to be wrong in the Bible!!! Which is another fact explained in the Scriptures!!
He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”
And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.
So the word of the LORD to them will be,
“Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there,”
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.
That is to say, that the very presupposition that the "Bible is the complete word of God" points to someone who has "
stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive."
So what do you tell that person? Is it not to start listening to the Lord!!!!! Of course those who wrote the Scriptures were telling those types of people that exact thing!!! And they were doing so by explaining what they personally heard from the Lord!! Things like:
Jer 5:18‘Now hear this, O foolish and senseless people,
Who have eyes but do not see;
Who have ears but do not hear.
Jer 6:10 To whom shall I speak and give warning
That they may hear?
Behold, their ears are closed
And they cannot listen.
Behold, the word of the LORD has become a reproach to them;
They have no delight in it.
THEY CANNOT LISTEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That was essentially what Calvin was trying to tell them!! That they cannot listen!!!
I mean, they have eye but do not see and they have ears but they do not hear!!
Why? Why can't they hear?????
Well that is simple to explain, they are scoffers, or skeptics, or unbelievers!! That is all the same thing!! They refuse to listen to the Lord - and that means they are rebellious!!
Is 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons,
Sons who refuse to listen
To the instruction of the LORD;
So their not hearing is not a matter that they don't have ears which to hear by, but rather a matter of rebellion against God!!
Is that exactly what we read in those question?? And it is certainly what we read in this skeptical comment taken from the attached quotes from the author of the OP:
"Thanks for sharing, but I'm still a skeptic."
Though I hear from the Lord and have personally been commanded by Him the following: "Karl, I want you to preach the Word, but not as it is so often preached. I want you to preach I AM the Word of God!" And testify that Him saying "I AM" hit me with such power that it caused me to fall towards the floor so that I had to caught myself on a fixture before I hit the floor.
Jesus Christ is the Word of God!!! He is named The Word of God because He speaks to us, but who will listen??? Not the rebellious!!
Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
So they don't even want to hear people saying that the right thing to do is seek the Lord and listen to His voice, which is found in our hearts, and even in our mouths sometimes, because that is where we find what the Holy Spirit told our spirit! Instead that what pleasant words and advice, and not that stuff about needing to listen to the Lord our God Jesus Christ via His Holy Spirit! That too is covered in the Scriptures!!
Is 30:10 Who say to the seers, “You must not see visions”;
And to the prophets, “You must not prophesy to us what is right,
Speak to us pleasant words,
Prophesy illusions.
Understand clearly, they don't want to believe even in the writings of people like say Moses, who wrote that the word was near them, even in their hearts and mouths! Which is also explained in the Scriptures!!
Jn 5:46,47“For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
They say they follow the writings of great people, but they don't!!! They don't follow Jesus Christ, even though He took on flesh and rose again so they can still hear from Him via His Holy Spirit. And they don't follow those people who heard from the Lord themselves and wrote about hearing from Him, thus resulting in the Scriptures! And they don't even follow Calvin, from what I read of Calvin. I am not sure, and did not take time to read all he wrote, and certainly have not talked with him, but from the little I read I think Calvin heard from the Lord at least a little. I did not notice the problems with what I read of His like I notice the problems with the OP and follow up post from the author of the OP.
Those writings seem to come from a man who does not want to believe in personally hearing from the Lord our God Jesus Christ. He seems to "a skeptic", according to his own writings!!!
Prov 13:1 A wise son accepts his father's discipline,
But a scoffer does not listen to rebuke.
Prov 14:6 A scoffer seeks wisdom and finds none,
But knowledge is easy to one who has understanding.
Prov 15:12 A scoffer does not love one who reproves him,
He will not go to the wise.
That is a problem, because the Lord reproves those who He loves. And who is Wisdom, if not the Holy Spirit. So now how is such a person going to start listening to the Lord via His Holy Spirit??
The answer is that they must repent of their ways!!! They have to do that first before they will seek the Lord, but that is part of the good news to them!! If they do repent and open up to the Lord they will find Him and get to know Him. But will a rebellious person do that?? Only God knows! But saying that is saying what Calvin seemed to be writing!!
REv 3:19,20 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
It does read "ANYONE", and all things are possible with God. So perhaps reproof and repentance could even lead to a rebellious person being the "anyone" who seek the voice of the Lord and cause them to actually open up to Him. I hope so, or why else spend sooo much time writing this. My hope is that they too stop being a skeptic and repent of that and open up to actually hearing from the Lord, as testified by people you do hear from the Lord Jesus Christ!!
PRIDE?
Let me tell you about the pride that men have:
Men believe that they are smarter than God!!!!!
That is the pride of men - that we, little specs of dirt on a spec of dirt that we call earth, which is circling another spec of dirt on fire, we call the sun, which circles about in with millions of other specs of dirt in what we call a galaxy, which itself looks like one of millions of other galaxies, all of which God made, and we are not even talking about the spiritual realm or dimension (because we know so little of it) and we think we are sooooo smart that we don't need to listen to Him!
Indeed those who don't listen proclaim they are scared of the idea of even listening to God!!!
How are they not like the proverbial Ostrich with their head buried in the dirt???
Prov 4:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
So that person sooooooo into pride and their belief that they are smarter than God, does not even fear God!!! They don't even have the beginning of wisdom!!!!
And that applies to most men and women - even to all them who celebrate "Pride Month"!! They have altogether shown they feel they are so smart that they put on display their PRIDE.
Those hearing from the Lord and testifying to that are testify that they have repented of their ways and their pride (at least for a moment long enough to hear from Him)
Silly people, it doesn't take pride to hear from God it takes humility!! But not even much humility!!!! Just enough humility to think for a moment that God might actually be smarter than you -- so that you are honestly willing to listen to His reasonings!
You need to be scared alright!!!
You need to be scared of the day when He asks you to account of your actions and lack their of!!!
Job 22:29 “When you are cast down, you will speak with confidence,
And the humble person He will save.
Ps 25:29 He leads the humble in justice,
And He teaches the humble His way.
Do you still not get it??? The humble take time to listen to God and testify about their hearing Him for your sake!! But you have soooooooooooooo much pride that you do not except their testimony!! If you had any sense then you would at the very least seek the Lord our God to find out if He might talk to you - but you don't because you think you are smarter than God and so tell yourself you will never need God and His advice to you!! So out of love He had people write to you about hearing Him!!! Still you will not listen to Him, because of your pride!!
I hear from Him, but that is not my pride that I do so. It is because of my belief in Him - my belief in Him being soooo much wiser than me - and His is sooo much wiser than me.
Silly silly people, you can not even approach Him as long as you think you are smarter than Him!!
Jas 4:6 But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, “GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.”
I know a man, whether in spirit or not I do not know, but this man was listening to the Lord and was flat out on his face seeking the word of the Lord when he was taken up and wound up just inside a large door next to the One he had been talking with. And as the man looked he could see the Ancient of Days sitting on His throne in front of legions of angels. He was calling them forward quickly, and one by one the angels came before Him and were giving instructions and instantly flew off. Then as the man watched the One on the throne of God turned his way, and though a word was not said the man instantly felt like a dirty little kitten who had been pulled out of the sewer. It was an extremely humbling feeling to feel so dirty and little. Then the One who brought the man through the door spoken and said, "Father, I would like a blessing for him," Then out they went and back to lying face down talking to the One who took him there. The man asked, "Did I get a blessing"? And he was told, "My Father blesses all whom I ask for."
Now you boldly say a man like that has pride!!! And you are correct!! But even that man realized that he had pride and humbled himself before God and listen. I tell you truly, the man or woman who humbles themselves before God to hear from God will be humble more, simply because getting in the presence of God is a humbling experience! Yet the man or women who doesn't even humble themselves enough to even consider hearing from Him, will not get the blessings of God!!!
Have you not even read that faith comes by hearing and that we are saved by faith???
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