Repentance is by will for Jesus' sake

[Ghada]

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

There's an accusation going around that first repenting according to the commandment of God, in order to have saving faith toward God, is somehow trusting in 'one's own will' to be saved.

I.e. we that do repent of our sins and trespasses to have faith toward God, are accused of only doing so by our 'own will alone'. We are not doing so by the will that is only of God.

By obeying God's commandment to repent, we are accused of not doing God's will, but our own alone. We are being told it is by our own will power, that we try to save ourselves. This is indeed the great lie and accusation against the saints of God, that do repent of our sins, to have faith toward God unto salvation.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

It's an upside-down accusation to justify the unrepented sinners. They do not repent first according to God's commanded will, and condemn them that do obey His will.

How can it be a sinner's will that repents of sinning, when it is in obedience to the commanded will of God to do so? It's not possible. It's a contradiction to how man begins to sin against God in the first place, which is always by doing our own will.

Are not the ones doing their own will, those that refuse to repent of their sinning in the first place? Of course.

Remember, by their own saving faith alone, they don't ever believe nor preach repenting of all sins and trespasses at once, according to God's commandment.

Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

They only preach faith in being saved first, with 'gradual' repentance of their sinning in part. They never obey nor preach God's commandment to repent of all our sinning against Him. They only preach a convenient repentance of their own, that is never by 'offensive' commandment.

They applaud going on to sinning less than before, but in fact condemn obeying God's commandment to repent and go to sin no more.

What they therefore call 'walking after the Spirit' with casual repentance down the road, and doing so only 'by God's will alone', is just religious terminology for repenting and changing our ways when we feel like it, not when we are still enjoying our old sin.

And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

That is in fact the feel-good Christianity of convenience. It is the gospel of being saved, justified, and repenting according to one's own faith and will. Indeed, they have an animus against obeying God by commandment, and call it saving ourselves by 'works of the law'.

The dirty little secret coming out here, is that it's not keeping the law without faith, that we preach with Paul against, but it's obeying God at all as by law of commandment, that so offends them. In fact, by hearing such unrepented sinners, the word obedience is not normally used, if ever, it's all about peace, love, and dove with willing desire, but not about crucifying one's own will through obedience to God.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

While it is true that charity and doing good is only from a pure heart of faith and love, repenting of sinning is only by obedience against our own sinful will.

The ongoing sinners' gospel is being with Christ by faith alone, with man's promise of leisurely repentance to follow. The gospel of Jesus Christ is to repent first and eschew evil of our own will, with God's promise of a while new glad heart and life well pleasing to God.

The gospel truth of Jesus Christ, is that as sinners, we are the ones commanded to first repent of doing our own will and sinning against Him.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

The gospel of self-will is that of unrepented sinners, that demand they be saved by their own faith alone, and then consent to please God with some repentance following in their own good time.

It's the gospel of rebellious disobedient children, that will only do something they want to do, and never because they are told to.

After all, if we are obeying God's commandment to repent by His will, and not our own, then that would only be before believing we are saved and justified by grace.

Unrepented sinners don't even make such an 'offensive' demand on themselves and others. They just suggest it would be better for life and 'discipleship' to repent and sin less and less at their own convenience. Their ministerial leadership cannot based upon growing in purity of heart and holiness in all things, but just on who's doing the less sinning most of the time.

 

[Wynona]

Ive never understood the accusation of trusting myself for my salvation. It's just like you explained. The idea of following God completely didn't come from me.

 

[Scott Downey]

It is God who grants a man to repent and believe in Christ. Otherwise, none come to Christ.

Many Disciples Turn Away​

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the [q]Christ, the Son of the living God.”

 

[Scott Downey]

2 Timothy 2:25
in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,

Philippians 1:29
For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

2 Timothy 1:16
The Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain;

 

[Ghada]

Ive never understood the accusation of trusting myself for my salvation. It's just like you explained. The idea of following God completely didn't come from me.

Ha! Well said. At first I didn't get what you were saying, until is dawned on me and the bright light shined. I.e. the idea of sinners repenting of all our sinning, and only doing the righteous and holy will of God, certainly does not come from sinners enjoying sinning for a season!

It's not sinful man's idea nor his will to do so! Thanks much. I really like it when other babes perfect doctrine of God, by their own simple insight of His words. Especially when, unlike myself, you do it so briefly. As they say, Brevity is the soul of wit.

The accusation therefore, that repenting of all our sinning is somehow wrong, because that would mean trying to 'save ourselves' by our own power, is preposterous. Especially when such a twisted thinking comes from sinners, that not only still refuse to repent of all their sinning, but also condemn them that do as being 'boastful of their own power'. What rot.

They are the ones preaching a Christian religion of their own will power to resist God. And as the saying goes, since they do it, then they judge everyone else must also be doing it.

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

 

[Ghada]

If repenting of all our sinning is wrong, and without God's will, then how do the accusers repent of any of their own sinning?

And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

 

[Scott Downey]

In truth, no one can resist His will.

If God decrees something, it is going to happen just as He says, and man or devil or angel cannot stop it.
God commands people to repent and believe, but this is not a decree of His will that they do that. People resist Him by being disobedient. to what He says.
But for some people He decrees by His will they will come to faith in Christ, that is what Christ means by being granted to come to Him.
Not all are granted that as obviously not all believe in Christ, and they will come under the final judgement.

All should simply take what is written as it is, and not try and explain it away the truth by their reasoning which is often according to the flesh ad not the Spirit of God.
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18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[Ghada]

In truth, no one can resist His will.

In truth, plenty of people resist His will and don't do His will, which is only by resisting His will.

Also in truth, the doctrine of having no free will (if you are teaching it), resists God and His word in the Bible;

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Resisting the truth of God's word, is resisting the will of God to do His word. Resisting the conviction of the Holy Ghost, is resisting God and His love calling all men to repentance for our own soul's sake. (I will not go down the road of arguing about what 'resisting' means, or how man resists God or the devil)

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

God does not create man in His image without His free will, nor does the Bible teach man has no free will given by God. God even commands free will to man in the beginning after being created by Him:

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

The Bible also reveals how free men are not doing God's will in the first place, and condemns man for not doing His will.

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

This is not a confirmation of the lie, that man is not able to resist God's will nor the devil's. The Bible plainly says man can, and man knows it by doing it. The verse is rebuking the lie, that man should not be condemned by God, since man cannot possibly resist His will. Which, by the way, is only when not doing His will.

It's the same as saying we are not at fault for sinning against God, because of the lie, that God has 'made us that way'.

If man has no free will to resist God's will to do His righteousness, then man has no free will to resist the devil's will to sin against God. This is of course only a lying excuse made by willful sinners, to continue not doing His righteousness and to commit sin with the devil.

The only honest question we can ask, is the same one God asks of all transgressors against Him: Why does man created by God in His own image, sin against God and die to Him? Why destroy the image of Christ in us, only to take on the image of the devil?

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

God has no answer for man willfully sinning against God to his own death and destruction. If man has no free will, then God would be a fool to even ask why.

However, God does know why any unrepented sinner tries to justify resisting the Spirit of grace not to repent. Especially why such sinners would then go on to accuse God Himself of being the Author and Tempter of man to do so. Which would be by making man sinful in the first place with no free will not to sin. (That's the doubling down combination of the 'made with sin nature' lie and the 'no free will of man' lie.)

It's called unrepented self-justification for men freely choosing to sear their consciences toward God and His love. Rather than just repent and resist the devil, and make the god of this world flee from us, men willfully choose from the heart to make the true and Living God separate Himself from our souls.

And so, we bring in more Bible to say exactly that man does have free will to do good or evil:

Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

Both gifts and words and deeds of man are commanded and exhorted by God to be offered, spoken, and done by free will.

If God decrees something, it is going to happen just as He says, and man or devil or angel cannot stop it.

Now this is true. When God says something, He will do it, because it is impossible for God to lie. However, God's certain and sure will, does not men man cannot resist it to his own destruction. Afterall, many do so all the time.

And so, God will certainly freely do His will, and if any angel or man chooses to resist His decreed will, then when God does it anyway, such rebellious men and angels will be destroyed against His will.

 

[Scott Downey]

In truth, plenty of people resist His will and don't do His will, which is only by resisting His will.

Also in truth, the doctrine of having no free will (if you are teaching it), resists God and His word in the Bible;

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Resisting the truth of God's word, is resisting the will of God to do His word. Resisting the conviction of the Holy Ghost, is resisting God and His love calling all men to repentance for our own soul's sake. (I will not go down the road of arguing about what 'resisting' means, or how man resists God or the devil)

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

God does not create man in His image without His free will, nor does the Bible teach man has no free will given by God. God even commands free will to man in the beginning after being created by Him:

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

The Bible also reveals how free men are not doing God's will in the first place, and condemns man for not doing His will.

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

This is not a confirmation of the lie, that man is not able to resist God's will nor the devil's. The Bible plainly says man can, and man knows it by doing it. The verse is rebuking the lie, that man should not be condemned by God, since man cannot possibly resist His will. Which, by the way, is only when not doing His will.

It's the same as saying we are not at fault for sinning against God, because of the lie, that God has 'made us that way'.

If man has no free will to resist God's will to do His righteousness, then man has no free will to resist the devil's will to sin against God. This is of course only a lying excuse made by willful sinners, to continue not doing His righteousness and to commit sin with the devil.

The only honest question we can ask, is the same one God asks of all transgressors against Him: Why does man created by God in His own image, sin against God and die to Him? Why destroy the image of Christ in us, only to take on the image of the devil?

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

God has no answer for man willfully sinning against God to his own death and destruction. If man has no free will, then God would be a fool to even ask why.

However, God does know why any unrepented sinner tries to justify resisting the Spirit of grace not to repent. Especially why such sinners would then go on to accuse God Himself of being the Author and Tempter of man to do so. Which would be by making man sinful in the first place with no free will not to sin. (That's the doubling down combination of the 'made with sin nature' lie and the 'no free will of man' lie.)

It's called unrepented self-justification for men freely choosing to sear their consciences toward God and His love. Rather than just repent and resist the devil, and make the god of this world flee from us, men willfully choose from the heart to make the true and Living God separate Himself from our souls.

And so, we bring in more Bible to say exactly that man does have free will to do good or evil:

Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

Both gifts and words and deeds of man are commanded and exhorted by God to be offered, spoken, and done by free will.



Now this is true. When God says something, He will do it, because it is impossible for God to lie. However, God's certain and sure will, does not men man cannot resist it to his own destruction. Afterall, many do so all the time.

And so, God will certainly freely do His will, and if any angel or man chooses to resist His decreed will, then when God does it anyway, such rebellious men and angels will be destroyed against His will.

it was not my will to be saved, that was God's decreed will for me, something I found to be irresistible.

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And this here proves it.
1 Corinthians 1
18 For the [g]message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the [h]disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a [i]stumbling block and to the [j]Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Glory Only in the Lord​

26 For [k]you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many [l]noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the [m]base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

 

[Ghada]

But for some people He decrees by His will they will come to faith in Christ, that is what Christ means by being granted to come to Him.

Calvin's lie of prechosen destination (If you are teaching it) always accompanies the lie of no free will for man.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God decrees by His will and love and mercy for all men to repent. God is willing that all men should be saved, is has no will that any should perish.

What does sometimes amaze me is how much 'learned' time and effort some people can put into teaching something so opposite to the Bible, when with one verse or two, the Bible shows it is teaching opposite to the Bible.

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

The reason for this is also simple. People don't want to know the truth, because they don't want to do the truth. They would rather make up justifying doctrines to excuse resisting God's will to repent, and even make God the reason for it.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Men choose not to come to the true light of Christ, because they don't want to repent and do the truth. It's not because (as some accuse God), of God not willing for them to repent and walk in His light with Jesus Christ.

God is willing for all men coming into the world to walk in His light, which is why Christ lightens every man coming into the world.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

The only thing is that lighting includes free will.

 

[Scott Downey]

The free will of the flesh is to reject Christ, to not believe in Him.
That is why Christ says the things he does, as in John 6
It is the Spirit which gives life, the flesh is worthless. Unbelievers are only in the flesh, and not in the Spirit, and they don't belong to Christ.
And they cannot please God.


35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out.

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Romans 8, all mankind is carnally minded until born again of the Spirit, as once born of the Spirit they are then in the Spirit, and are spiritually alive to God, which means they LIVE, have life according to the Spirit.

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His

 

[Ghada]

All should simply take what is written as it is, and not try and explain it away the truth by their reasoning which is often according to the flesh ad not the Spirit of God.

Exactly. While not all carnal minded unrepented sinners, try to teach a carnal lie about their continued rebellion against the will of God, rather than the truth of the Spirit, there are many that do.

Al most all false doctrine taught by willful unrepented sinners, leads straight to justifying it.

Such as, It's not my fault God made me this way... or, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

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18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

Another trick of the trade is to change the words to mean something different, and more suitable to carnal tastes. Sometimes even by one single letter, like God wills certain people to sin.

As though He uses His power of will to make them do so. That's only the god of this world seeking to impose his own will on men to sin with him against God. It's called temptation.

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

God's will is to have mercy upon all, but if men resist His will, then God's will is to punish all trasngressors.

Men harden or soften their own hearts to God's will, and so God;s will hardens or softens men's hearts according to their own choice.

For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

It's the same true light shining on all from the Son of God over all the earth, but does not shine in the heart's of them, that choose not to repent and see and walk therein.

It is God's one will, even by commandment, for all men to do so.

For God, who commandeth the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

The commandment of God is His will commanded to all men the same everywhere. Nowhere in the Bible God ever 'wills' nor commands any man to repent not and perish against His expressly spoken and commanded will.

The only one that wills and commands men to sin and die to God, is of course the god of this world. And like God, but only the opposite, the devil wills and commands all men everywhere to repent not and sin unto death.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man, because this is whole and only will of God toward all angels and men.

 

[Scott Downey]

Exactly. While not all carnal minded unrepented sinners, try to teach a carnal lie about their continued rebellion against the will of God, rather than the truth of the Spirit, there are many that do.

Al most all false doctrine taught by willful unrepented sinners, leads straight to justifying it.

Such as, It's not my fault God made me this way... or, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?


Another trick of the trade is to change the words to mean something different, and more suitable to carnal tastes. Sometimes even by one single letter, like God wills certain people to sin.

As though He uses His power of will to make them do so. That's only the god of this world seeking to impose his own will on men to sin with him against God. It's called temptation.

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

God's will is to have mercy upon all, but if men resist His will, then God's will is to punish all trasngressors.

Men harden or soften their own hearts to God's will, and so God;s will hardens or softens men's hearts according to their own choice.

For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

It's the same true light shining on all from the Son of God over all the earth, but does not shine in the heart's of them, that choose not to repent and see and walk therein.

It is God's one will, even by commandment, for all men to do so.

For God, who commandeth the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

The commandment of God is His will commanded to all men the same everywhere. Nowhere in the Bible God ever 'wills' nor commands any man to repent not and perish against His expressly spoken and commanded will.

The only one that wills and commands men to sin and die to God, is of course the god of this world. And like God, but only the opposite, the devil wills and commands all men everywhere to repent not and sin unto death.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man, because this is whole and only will of God toward all angels and men.

"For God, who commandeth the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

You have misquoted this verse to apply to the unsaved. This is written by Paul to the saved, 'our hearts' the context is only to believers.
Paul is contrasting unbelievers with believers, saying the unbelievers are blinded by Satan, while for believers, God has shined in their hearts, which is why they believe in Christ. "OUR HEARTS", Paul is writing to the Church, not the unsaved.

In context, it does not say what you are saying, you ripped the verse out of the passage to make it say something else.

Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor [a]handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

 

[Ghada]

it was not my will to be saved, that was God's decreed will for me, something I found to be irresistible.

Sweet. And if so, then it was your will to repent of freely.

Only the devil enslaves people to his will. God's will is always freely chosen and obeyed from a free heart.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Without free will there is no freedom nor free man nor woman.

The king sent and loosed him; even the ruler of the people, and let him go free.

Every person is free to sin on earth for a season, but no person is free to sin in the kingdom of God.

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.


The Bible is obvious and plain to all that believe: Every man is free, whether to do evil or do good, and no man can blame choosing to do evil on God, Hitler, nor even the devil.

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And this here proves it.

This here proves another self-defeating reading of the Bible. How can man have no will of His own, when we read from God about the will of man, being apart from the will of God?

The proof of man having His own will is the foundation of the Bible to man about man's own will, and calling all men to choose to do God's will freely, and warning all men not to forsake His will do their own apart from Him, which is the Bible source for all sinning against God.

Books about man not having free will are called nihilists, and Marxist sociology of 'environmental entrapment'.

Man cannot will himself to be born of God. Man cannot receive the Spirit of God by the power of his own will.

Man can however will himself to repent. Any man can willingly and freely repent and change anything he chooses to do. However, only the sinners that will repent of all their sinning for Jesus' sake, will be washed clean, circumcised, and sanctified unto God by the Spirit of Christ.

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

This is certainly true, as will as the wisdom of reading and believing plains words as written, without trying to make thmes say something else we want them to say.

Why do people try to change the Bible to fit their own justification for continued sinning? Why not just go to books that openly justify sinning unto the grave, with hope of better things to come afterward.

I've read so much of it from Christians, that I could write their own bible for them. I'd call it the Sinner's Bible. And the gospel would be Good News for Ongoing Sinners.

In conclusion, what I see is you're another one of those one-sided teachers, that do not entertain nor address any challenges.

Until I start seeing you show any error in my readings from the Bible, then I'll not continue down the lonely road of following and uselessly responding to just another one sided conversation.

 

[Scott Downey]

Sweet. And if so, then it was your will to repent of freely.

Only the devil enslaves people to his will. God's will is always freely chosen and obeyed from a free heart.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Without free will there is no freedom nor free man nor woman.

The king sent and loosed him; even the ruler of the people, and let him go free.

Every person is free to sin on earth for a season, but no person is free to sin in the kingdom of God.

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.


The Bible is obvious and plain to all that believe: Every man is free, whether to do evil or do good, and no man can blame choosing to do evil on God, Hitler, nor even the devil.

Yes it was my decision to receive Him. But I was blinded in my mind and following the devil before I believed and was unable to make a free will choice to believe, just as 2 Cor 4 you quoted says of unbelievers that they are blinded to the light of the gospel of Christ.

3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

After God shone His light into my heart, He had made me born again of the Spirit and I freely received Him.

as 1 John 5 says
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him

 

[Ghada]

"For God, who commandeth the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

You have misquoted this verse to apply to the unsaved. This is written by Paul to the saved, 'our hearts' the context is only to believers.

Now, this is better. You are offering a counter argument. Thanks. The light God commanded to shine in the beginning applied to all the earth, and the true light He now commands to all men.

Preceded by His commandant to all men to repent of walking in darkness everywhere on earth.

Paul is contrasting unbelievers with believers,

Exactly. Those who willingly choose to repent according to God's commandment to all men, and those who willingly choose to repent not.

Only those repenting for Jesus' sake will shine His true light from new pure hearts and lives, which God commands to all men everywhere.

Ye all men believe not, because they repent not.

In context, it does not say what you are saying, you ripped the verse out of the passage to make it say something else.

No, I simply apply it to the context of all the Bible. And I've shown where your pointed objection (which I'm glad to see you try to make) falls short.

You rip the verse out of Bible context, to make the commandment limited only to them, that do repent and so shine as promised.

I've already given the verses showing God's will is for all men to repent and so shine. You don't allow the first part of the verse to be connected to them, so that the commandment to shine is limited by you to only certain men on earth.

Once one verse is dislodged from other verses of the Bible, then the whole doctrine is fouled.

 

[Scott Downey]

ESV says it this way.
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

What always must come first is being born again, otherwise a person is in the flesh and blinded to the light of the gospel by the devil. It is why Jesus tells us about coming to Him, that the Spirit gives life, the flesh is worthless, in John 6

 

[Scott Downey]

John 3 tells us plainly, no one can see the kingdom of God unless first born again
'see' there means to perceive with understanding...
So a man is first born again, and this is done quietly like a breeze of wind blowing by the Spirit, independent of the will of a man.
Jesus talks of first seeing, then ALSO entering.

3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[Scott Downey]

8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Only under the control of God is His Spirit, He blows where He wills, not under the control or desire or will of man are people born again.
And unless your born again you cannot see, (perceive as in understand the kingdom of God (Christ being the Son of God)

And that takes us back to John 1:10-13, people do not know Christ unless born of God, not by their will are they born of God, but only by His will.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own,[b] and his own people[c] did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.