Reply: Call no man father

[Mark51]

Matthew 23:9 "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. (9) Call no man your father. —This also, under its Hebrew form of Abba, was one of the titles in which the scribes delighted.

Jesus forbade the use of the word “father” as a title of honor in a religious sense. Compare Matthew 23:1-12.

 

[theefaith]

Jesus forbade the use of the word “father” as a title of honor in a religious sense. Compare Matthew 23:1-12.

Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Roman Catholic will demand that “ Jesus's use of the TITLE , "Woman" to describe His mother in John's Gospel correlates directly to the “ T I T L E “ Woman, in Gen. 3:15 and in Rev. 12.
fulfilling the prophecy in Gen. 3:15 - offspring of the Woman Mary as a T I T L E - to the serpent head being crushed in Genesis.
They base this partly upon the fact that Yahashua did not refer to Mary as HIS MOTHER - he insisted upon always calling her a TITLE “ AS WOMAN “
But when we look in the Genesis account from the NT we find that this ideology centered upon a TITLE “ AS WOMAN “ does not exist
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but “ THE WOMAN “ being deceived was in the transgression.
There is nothing here concerning an ideology centered upon a TITLE “ AS WOMAN “ in fact this is the word that God calls for Eve continually
Gen 3:1 Now And he said unto the woman, - :2 And the woman said unto the serpent
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman - :6 And when the woman saw that the tree was
Gen_3:12 And the man said, The woman - :13 And the LORD God said unto the woman
Gen_3:15 I will put enmity between thee and the woman, - :16 Unto the woman he said
IN FACT - Yahashua continually - is using the TITLE “ AS WOMAN “ to the strangers and foreigners and aliens and outsiders and the unwanted and needy women around him.
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Yahashua in fact is using the TITLE “ AS WOMAN “ for an adulterous fornicating immoral woman.
YAHASHUA HAD NOT ESTEEMED AND RESERVED ANY TITLE SUCH “ AS WOMAN “ he even gives this TITLE “ WOMAN “ to an adulterous fornicating immoral woman who is guilty of adultery and caught red handed.
Joh 8:10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: “ WOMAN “ Woman, where are they that accused thee?
Neither Yahashua nor the Holy Spirit has no interested in preserving a special catholic tradition that gives a TITLE “ AS WOMAN “ to Mary -
Yahashua used this term for women who he wished to distance himself from and remove the personal connection between them. THIS IS EXACTLY WHY HE USED THE TERM “ WOMAN “ ALWAYS FOR MARY - he had no interest in pretending that Mary was a part of his ministry, mission and relationship with God
Mary was not involved in the life of Yahashua after he became an adult, he lived his life in the desert, on the road and the countryside and in the hills and mountains and the wood.
But instead Mary was home, having intimacy with her husband she had married and with her children she had bore living her life and had little time for chasing after Yahashua - only to continually and repeatedly be ignored and pushed aside in order that his ministry and spiritual life could be fulfilled.
A real MOTHER in the life of Yahashua did not exist - this concept is not a reality in the manuscripts.
It would have been a sin and a lie and BLASPHEMY for Yahashua to go about calling Mary his mother
He would be denying his identity and lying about who he was.

WOW - quite a verbose rant. Idiotic and skewed - but verbose, nonetheless.
As a matter of fact, I had to delete much of it in order to reply because of the textual constraints of this forum . . .

You spend a LOT of time ranting against Mary - yet in the depths of your ignorance, you cannot see how you have maligned Jesus in the process. Jesus lived the Law perfectly - the ONLY one to do so, both inwardly AND outwardly (Heb. 4:15). Yet, you expect everyone to believe that He dishonored His mother by grouping her with adulterers and fornicators - violating God's Commandment against it (Exod. 20:12).

Not only IS Mary the "Woman" spoken of in the prophecy in Gen. 3:15 - she is present at Calvary while the prophecy about the serpent's head being crushed is being fulfilled (Matt. 27:56, Mark 15:40, John 19:25).
Oh, and ONE more thing about Gen. 3:15 and the Woman - the prophecy states that it is HER SEED that will crush the head of the serpent.
This marks the ONLY time in ALL of Scripture that references the "seed" (זרעה) of a woman and NOT a man.

You deny that Jesus had a "REAL" mother, stating that the manuscripts do not show this - yet they DO.
- Luke 1:43, Elizabeth cries out to Mary asking, "Who am I that the MOTHER of my Lord" should visit me? = μήτηρ (MOTHER) τοῦ κυρίου (Lord).
- John 2:1 states plainly that at the Wedding at Cana, "Jesus's MOTHER was there" = μήτηρ (MOTHER) τοῦ Ἰησοῦ (Jesus) ἐκεῖ·(there).
- Matt. 2:13 - The Angel warns Joseph to "take the child and his MOTHER" = παράλαβε (take) τὸ (the) παιδίον (child) καὶ (and) τὴν (the/his) μητέρα (MOTHER).
- John 19:25 tells us that near the cross was "His MOTHER" = Ἰησοῦ (Jesus) ἡ μήτηρ (MOTHER) αὐτοῦ (his).

These are just a FEW examples of the Scriptural PROOF of Mary's "REAL" motherhood.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Cont'd . . .

Finally - as to your nonsense about Mary's "sex life" - the Bible NEVER even implies this.
NOWHERE do the Scriptures ever mention the idea of MARY having other children. It simply mentions the "Adelphos(ois)" of Jesus.
And, as has been CLEARLY shown - of the 344 instances are instances where the word “Adelphos” and all of its variations are used in the NT:

- 41 times (12%) are cases where "Adelphos" clearly or probably refers to a family sibling.
- 47 instances (14%) are cases where "Adelphos" may or may not refer to a family sibling.
- 256 instances (74%) are cases where "Adelphos" CANNOT or almost certainly does NOT refer to a family sibling.

Finally - Matt. 1:25 says: ... but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

Did Mary have other children after Jesus? The Bible does NOT support this idea. Let’s see what the Scriptures say about the use of the word, “until” (heos/'ad).

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Moses was buried by God in the valley of Moab after his death. Deut. 34:6 explicitly states: And he buried him in the valley of the land of Moab over against Phogor: and no man hath known of his sepulchre UNTIL this present day.
Sooooo – did they find his grave after this??

Let’s also examine Acts 2:34-35 (also see Psalm 110:1, Matt 22:44): For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool."'

Are we to surmise that Jesus will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool? The problem here is that ignorant anti-Catholics attempt to apply 21st century English to Hebrew and Greek from a culture thousands of years ago.

Finally, Mary’s question to the Angel Gabriel is very telling about her intention to remain a virgin:
Luke 1:34: Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”
Mary was a betrothed girl who knew about marital relations. She didn’t say “How can this be, since I have not known a man?” She said “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

She was stating her intention to remain a virgin and was puzzled by Gabriel’s announcement that she was to have a child. She knew that God was aware of her intentions. That's why she was bewildered by the Angel's message.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus forbade the use of the word “father” as a title of honor in a religious sense. Compare Matthew 23:1-12.

This is absolutely FALSE.

He forbade them calling any man "Father" or "Teacher" - ABOVE their Father and Teacher in Heaven.
He was rebuking the Pharisees, who exalted themselves above the rest - even above the Word of God (Mark 7:7-8).

- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).

- St. Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).

- St. Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).

- For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

- "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).

- "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).

- "God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHRS" (1 Cor. 12:28).

Is the Holy Spirit a hypocrite - or did YOU simply misunderstand what Jesus said in Matt. 23:8-9??

 

[Mark51]

This is absolutely FALSE.

He forbade them calling any man "Father" or "Teacher" - ABOVE their Father and Teacher in Heaven.
He was rebuking the Pharisees, who exalted themselves above the rest - even above the Word of God (Mark 7:7-8).

- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).

- St. Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).

- St. Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).

- For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

- "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).

- "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).

- "God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHRS" (1 Cor. 12:28).

Is the Holy Spirit a hypocrite - or did YOU simply misunderstand what Jesus said in Matt. 23:8-9??

You totally lost me with you rebuttal. I was supporting the scripture in Matthew 23:9. Of course, addressing a parent as "father"-as an example-is respectful and proper; however, it should not be done in a spiritual sense.

 

[theefaith]

You totally lost me with you rebuttal. I was supporting the scripture in Matthew 23:9. Of course, addressing a parent as "father"-as an example-is respectful and proper; however, it should not be done in a spiritual sense.

Why do the apostles do it in a spiritual sense???

 

[BreadOfLife]

You totally lost me with you rebuttal. I was supporting the scripture in Matthew 23:9. Of course, addressing a parent as "father"-as an example-is respectful and proper; however, it should not be done in a spiritual sense.

I was making the point that your claim that Jesus forbade the calling of any man a "spiritual father" is false.

For this to be true - you would have to refute some of the verses I presented as evidence to the contrary (1 Cor. 4:14-15). You would ALSO have to explain why He apparently "forbade" calling any man "Teacher" - yet the verses I presented show just the opposite (1 Tim. 2:7, 2 Tim. 1:11).

MY point is that you completely misunderstood His point. As I stated before - He was prohibiting calling any man "Father" or "Teacher" - ABOVE their Father and Teacher in Heaven.
He was chiding the Pharisees, who loved to exalt themselves above everybody - and even above the Word of God (Mark 7:7-8).

The bottom line here is that Jesus DOESN'T have a problem with us calling men "Father" or "Teacher" - even in a spiritual or symbolic sense.
His point was that NOBODY is a Father or a Teacher ABOVE God - like the Pharisees tried to pass themselves off.

 

[MyLordisGod]

Call no man father

Typical fundamentalist misunderstandings!

Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?

Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.



Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!

Here I will help you out....

A new commandment I give you
call no man your father if God is your Father.

Now you may live in your excuses and be in truth.

 

[theefaith]

Here I will help you out....

A new commandment I give you
call no man your father if God is your Father.

Now you may live in your excuses and be in truth.

fundamentalism is spiritual blindness not truth
Faith without reason

 

[MyLordisGod]

fundamentalism is spiritual blindness not truth
Faith without reason

So why do you continue to commit the same sins
over and over knowing that you will die in them
unless you stop it?

 

[theefaith]

So why do you continue to commit the same sins
over and over knowing that you will die in them
unless you stop it?

God have mercy on me a poor sinner!

how do we obtain mercy

 

[MyLordisGod]

God have mercy on me a poor sinner!

how do we obtain mercy

I am not a teacher. But I woul

God have mercy on me a poor sinner!

how do we obtain mercy

God have mercy on me a poor sinner!

how do we obtain mercy

By not polluting the mercy you started out with from the eternal living God.

 

[theefaith]

I am not a teacher. But I woul


By not polluting the mercy you started out with from the eternal living God.

How about by being merciful?

 

[MyLordisGod]

How about by being merciful?

So why do you pollute the mercy of the eternal living God?

 

[theefaith]

So why do you pollute the mercy of the eternal living God?

matt 5 blessed are the merciful they shall obtain mercy

 

[MyLordisGod]

matt 5 blessed are the merciful they shall obtain mercy

Cursed are the merciful who pollute the mercy of the Lord.

 

[theefaith]

Cursed are the merciful who pollute the mercy of the Lord.

mother of God
Mother of our salvation

 

[theefaith]

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Mother of Divine Grace!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[Brakelite]

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Mother of Divine Grace!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

That is such blatant heresy. It's idolatry... It's blasphemy... It's Antichrist. But hey, it's Catholic, so par for the course.