responding to shooting.

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Brother James

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afaithfulone4u said:
I am appolled at some of these response for those who claim to follow Christ. Did Christ carry a gun?
They did not have guns in Jesus' time. But his disciple, Peter, carried a sword. I do not read any reference to Jesus telling him not to carry the sword. We have many God-given rights. Our constitution protects these rights, although people can misuse them. I can misuse my right to speak freely, right? I can gossip or spread false rumors about you. Does that mean that people should lose their right to speak freely? Your argument didn't make a lick of sense to me.
 
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Brother James

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Foreigner said:
Not sure what you are trying to say.

The M-16 was called "Assault Weapon" during familiarization in basic training and "Assault Rifle" when assigned to my first and subsequent duty stations.
I never encountered the term "assault weapon" back in the 1970's, but may I point out that the purchase of an M-16 is pretty much banned already? You cannot just walk into a store and buy an automatic rifle, regardless of when they began calling it an "assault rifle".

Certainly my AR-10 is not such a weapon as it fires a single bullet with a single trigger pull, just like any other semi-automatic deer rifle.

One person wrote, "You people bring gun control to foolish extremes. The way some of you think and things you compare them to show me that you don't have the common sense required to own a gun."

Let me gently explain why I, as a gun owner, cannot take your arguments seriously. I received my first real firearm when I was eleven years old. I learned how to shoot very well so that I earned my expert badge in army basic training at the age of 17. When I was 18 I was walking around the streets of Germany with a .45 on my side. I was well trained and I understood how to properly handle a firearm. I am also a mentally stable person. I am not prone to violent disregard for others. This is true of the vast majority of the people I know. I carry a concealed weapon nearly everywhere I go. I try not to break the law by carrying one into places they are not allowed. When I am at an event where I know a lot of other people are armed, I consider myself to be in a very safe environment.

Now, it does scare me that our nation no longer has a functioning mental health system. There is no place for unstable mentally ill people to live and receive long-term care. It is next to impossible for families to get any kind of treatment other than prescriptions for meds from psychiatrists who meet with patients every 60 or 90 days. There are severe social problems in our nation that need to be addressed, and this is one of the most unexamined ones.

Now, if people want to take away my right to own guns there is a mechanism in place under our system of governance that allows for that. It is called the amendment process. Simply amend the constitution and there is no problem. But the problem is that folks on the left know that there is no chance they will every succeed in doing that. So, they use the media and they use misinformation and misdirection. They call people like me fools and extemist. The villify and demonize all for a political agenda they cannot press with any legitimate political process. And for some reason they will use any tragedy to turn the conversation to one issue, guns, and put on blinders to the many failures that lead up to the Newtown tragedy. That is what makes the whole discussion so unpleasant. Tunnel vision is never helpful.
 
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Foreigner

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James, you are actually preaching to the choir.
I have a friend who has the civilian version of the M4 rifle. It is single shot, not automatic.
One must know though that it is a simple modification that can turn it into an automatic. Yes, it is illegal and yes I think it should be illegal.

I approve of legal gun ownership.
As I mentioned somewhere else, every day tens of millions of legal gun owners in the US do not even get so much as a parking ticket.
Legal gun owners are the most law abiding citizens in the U.S.

Chicago has seen over 500 people killed in 2012, but what those who want to ban gun ownership ignore is that the vast, vast number of those death are committed by people using an illegal firearm they have no legal right to possess. Chicago has some of the most stringent gun ownership laws in the nation. Obviously those gun laws have little if any impact on gun crime.
 

tgwprophet

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How many people legally allowed to purchase a weapon... say a $500 pistol, would use it to rob a convience store for $150?

How many crimes are stopped becasue of some citizen licensed to carry... has stopped it? And how many times would that make the news... probably near zero. It's only news worthy if the event coincides with intended propaganda.

Look at the amount of weapons in the hands of citizens in mid-east countries... then check thier gun laws. And oh by the Way look at WHAT the weapons are. Certainly seems to prove; outlawing firearms solves nothing but to make law abiding citizens into criminals... some times for thier very survival.

So take away the rights of Americans to possess firearms and open the door to making more law-abiding citizens into criminals simply becasue They Know of their need to defend themselves and their families. Then consider the type of fireamr that they would be able to purchase through the black market, guns such as AK-47s and such that are not only assault weapons but operate fully automatically as well. When firearms are being imported from other countries through the black market, what kind of weapons does one think will be the majority being brought in? In some countries you can get an AK-47 by trading a chicken. (ok, so maybe it would need to be a really valuable chicken)

within the next two weeks I will have my CCW, my son already has his. My brother and his wife has theirs (of course she works for the sheriffs office) and thier children will all have theirs at the same time I get mine. My son had his first, because some drive-by shooter shot his girlfriend right in the porch,,, the house did survive.
Me... I live in the sticks far from any other house... yet I found a dead guy that was executed real close to where I live.. you can google it... Christopher Mark Brother.

All weapons should be treated with respect, but they need no more classification than a tool used to protection and food.

Do you know WASP SPRAY is a better defense than pepper spray or bear spray? It will cause temporary blindness and shoots near 20 feet. It takes hospital assistance to stop tthe blindness. Keep a can near your bed, you do not have to "see" your attacker.... just keep spraying in his direction until you hear him screaming.
Never yell out you have a gun... but you may try screaming you have wasp and hornet insecticide. .
Oh yeah, and its legal.
 

biggandyy

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terry said:
In some countries you can get an AK-47 by trading a chicken. (ok, so maybe it would need to be a really valuable chicken)
From here: http://www.havocscope.com/ak-47s-more-expensive-than-children-in-sudan-back-in-2001/
The market price for the guns was greater than the price for the children themselves. In 1986, an AK-47 cost ten cows, or about $1,000. By 2001, a glut of guns (and dearth of cows) shrank the cost to two cows, or about $86 along the Sudan-Uganda border. The child market was more volatile. In early 1987, after al-Mahdi began his counterinsurgency, a Dinka boy cost $90. By 1990, as supply swelled, the price fell to $15. At the time of my visit, CSI had agreed to pay $33 per slave.
 

Groundzero

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terry said:
How many people legally allowed to purchase a weapon... say a $500 pistol, would use it to rob a convience store for $150?

How many crimes are stopped becasue of some citizen licensed to carry... has stopped it? And how many times would that make the news... probably near zero. It's only news worthy if the event coincides with intended propaganda.

Look at the amount of weapons in the hands of citizens in mid-east countries... then check thier gun laws. And oh by the Way look at WHAT the weapons are. Certainly seems to prove; outlawing firearms solves nothing but to make law abiding citizens into criminals... some times for thier very survival.

So take away the rights of Americans to possess firearms and open the door to making more law-abiding citizens into criminals simply becasue They Know of their need to defend themselves and their families. Then consider the type of fireamr that they would be able to purchase through the black market, guns such as AK-47s and such that are not only assault weapons but operate fully automatically as well. When firearms are being imported from other countries through the black market, what kind of weapons does one think will be the majority being brought in? In some countries you can get an AK-47 by trading a chicken. (ok, so maybe it would need to be a really valuable chicken)

within the next two weeks I will have my CCW, my son already has his. My brother and his wife has theirs (of course she works for the sheriffs office) and thier children will all have theirs at the same time I get mine. My son had his first, because some drive-by shooter shot his girlfriend right in the porch,,, the house did survive.
Me... I live in the sticks far from any other house... yet I found a dead guy that was executed real close to where I live.. you can google it... Christopher Mark Brother.

All weapons should be treated with respect, but they need no more classification than a tool used to protection and food.

Do you know WASP SPRAY is a better defense than pepper spray or bear spray? It will cause temporary blindness and shoots near 20 feet. It takes hospital assistance to stop tthe blindness. Keep a can near your bed, you do not have to "see" your attacker.... just keep spraying in his direction until you hear him screaming.
Never yell out you have a gun... but you may try screaming you have wasp and hornet insecticide. .
Oh yeah, and its legal.

Great point Terry. And very true about the wasp spray. Even when it comes to explosives, all you need is some knowledge of chemistry and using everyday ingredients you could make a bomb. Maybe we should outlaw chemistry . . . . :p (I was thinking of taking chemistry for that exact reason, but hey, the maths involved scared me away.)
 

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joshhuntnm said:
When the dust settles, what should we do in response to the shooting? Do we need armed guards in every school?
Most, if not all, the opinions of Americans today about the mass shootings in Connecticut are hypocritical if not terribly ill conceived.

"If an American is concerned only about his nation, he will not be concerned about the peoples of Asia, Africa, or South America. Is this not why nations engage in the madness of war without the slightest sense of penitence? Is this not why the murder of a citizen of your own nation is a crime, but the murder of citizens of another nation in war is an act of heroic virtue? "
- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.

It is the ultimate hypocritical pretense of righteousness to applaud American murder, assassination and war crimes abroad, to allow our government to continue to train our innocent young men into becoming professional killers while at the same time bemoaning the murder of our own citizens and children at home. No one in this pompous nation seems to see the disconnection in logic this attitude implies.

This nation, which has brutally murdered over 53 million unborn souls, now stands back in mock horror when a mere twenty are killed in broad daylight. If there is a greater example of crocodile tears and pure unadulterated hypocritical hysteria I cannot imagine it.

"The US government is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today."
- Rev. King (1966)

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, THEN HE WILL OWE SODOM AND GOMORRAH AN APOLOGY.

Violence is the American way of life and the judgment of God is to return it upon our own heads. America is now being forced to drink the cup of death we have forced upon others for so long. I cannot remember a time when my country was not at war with someone and I have lived nearly seven decades upon the earth.

"A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.


"Don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as His divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with justice and it seems that I can hear God saying to America, 'You are too arrogant. If you don't change your ways I will rise up and break the back bone of your power.'"
- Martin Luther King, Jr. (circa 1967)

Indeed, it is a horror that so many young lives were prematurely snuffed out at Sandy Hook school. But the real tragedy wasn't the innocent blood that was shed that day. The real disaster lies in the hearts of a nation that is drunk on nationalistic godless pride, militarism as a way of life and religious folk who are blind to the excesses they themselves support in their allegiance to a nation and participation in a culture that is bent on the destruction of those who do not comply with its designs for global hegemony.

The argument always centers upon the guns held by private individuals, never upon the real issue of national duplicity in global murder for hire. It is well said that you reap what you sew. America has sewn a great deal of violence and murder.

The most highly decorated Marine Corps General in US history, Smedley D. Butler understood all too well the real nature of the US Marine Corps and US foreign policy in general when he concluded after his retirement in 1931 that;
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service, and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

"The de facto role of the US armed forces will be to keep the world safe for our economy and open to our cultural assault. To those ends, we will do a fair amount of killings."
- Major Ralph Peters

America has forgotten God. In our hypocrisy we are blaming everyone but those most guilty - ourselves.

Is God blessing America?

Ask the dead children for their opinion. The silence of their graves speaks truth.

Does it look like blessings from heaven these days to you?

We cannot hear the children - or God - because we're too busy shouting at each other and saluting the flag of a country that no longer belongs to us.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
 

tgwprophet

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loud and clear, Rjp Many of the Vets I know that put their life or health on the line in one or more of the many wars thic country has participated in feel very strongly that USA should be on God's side, or else their participation making them a Veteran was futile. First.. to all vets your participation was never futile. USA was a country fullly on the dies of God. In 1948 it was USA that first recognized Isreal as a nation, not second.
Count how many times the Jews turned their back on God, yet they are God's chosen... So, just becasue USA has began a campaign against God does not mean anyone who fought for this country was doing a bad thing.; However, now our fight is to regain this country and turn it back toward God, not an easy task. A person who fought in military battles to ensure USA remains free or to assist other countries fight tyranny now must look inside the belly of the beast and fight an even greater battle... to ensure God is allowed back in and given control, for it too is a fight for freedom. You want your country to be with God accept that USA needs correction and put God first, above country. The challenge is greater than ever before.
 

Axehead

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BiggAndyy said:
Good read. Thanks.
Yeah, it really is becoming very obvious that someone, or many are trying to cover up for the pharmaceutical industry. How many ticking time bombs do we now have walking around in the good ole USA? Will they disarm the public yet keep feeding these SSRI, (anti-psychotic) drugs to people? I say if they disarm the public, they should outlaw all of these SSRI drugs. HAH!!! The latter will never happen.
 

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Axehead said:
It keeps getting brought up, but time after time, carefully swept under the rug. (Follow the money).

The giant, gaping hole in Sandy Hook reporting
Thank you for the link.

My daughter works in the mental health field. Specifically she assists adults who are unable to care for themselves.

The system, the country which has pledged by law and moral vow to care and defend us is abandoning its duty. Mentally ill patients are forced onto the streets - unable to care for themselves.

My daughter says that her duties require her to find affordable lodgings (very often in bug infested crime ridden neighborhoods), teach them how to shop for groceries, find employment where possible (mostly impossible she says), and to monitor their prescription drug plans. She says that even these bare bones programs are being cut.

Rev. ML King stated back in the late '60s that when a nation devoted more money to its military than to programs of social benefit, it was close to spiritual death. I submit that America has long since passed that line.

It remains for us as Christians to devote ourselves to trust and obedience to God who is able to deliver us and our families in these wicked times.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
 

Foreigner

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Rev. ML King stated back in the late '60s that when a nation devoted more money to its military than to programs of social benefit, it was close to spiritual death. I submit that America has long since passed that line.

-- Since Dr. King made that statement over four decades ago, the U.S. has spent trillions for Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps and a plethora of other assistance programs.

But even as spending for those programs have gone up every year, the situation has gotten worse.
Why? Accountability, or lack thereof. When you have three generations of people on the program who are healthy but have never held a job....

The U.S. gov't itself says that tens of BILLIONS of dollars are lost in those programs through fraud, waste and abuse. But the U.S. is unwilling to do anything about it.
We have the greatest workplace protections in the world, yet since Mr. Obama took office we have record numbers of employees on disability.
Why? They lowered the standard to get on and are doing little if any verification before approving.

We have record numbers on food stamps.
Why? The U.S.gov't actually RECRUITED people to be on food stamps. Not just U.S. citizens but immigrants, as well.

You can blame military spending all you want. There is indeed room to cut there. But it is far from the only problem.



For example: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/poor_some_ugar_on_me_0Hq1d3iPnvj2RwpsEDS7MN

Welfare recipients take out cash at strip clubs, liquor stores and X-rated shops


  • By KATE BRIQUELET

They’re on the dole — and watching the pole.
Welfare recipients took out cash at bars, liquor stores, X-rated video shops, hookah parlors and even strip clubs — where they presumably spent their taxpayer money on lap dances rather than diapers, a Post investigation found.
A database of 200 million Electronic Benefit Transfer records from January 2011 to July 2012, obtained by The Post through a Freedom of Information request, showed welfare recipients using their EBT cards to make dozens of cash withdrawals at ATMs inside Hank’s Saloon in Brooklyn; the Blue Door Video porn shop in the East Village; The Anchor, a sleek SoHo lounge; the Patriot Saloon in TriBeCa; and Drinks Galore, a liquor distributor in The Bronx.





One EBT machine is stationed inside Club Eleven, an infamous Hunts Point jiggle joint known as much for its violent history as its girls in pink thongs.
Cops have been cracking down on the Bronx club since 2009 and shut it down temporarily in 2010. In July, five men were stabbed and two others shot outside after bouncers broke up a 4 a.m. brawl with pepper spray. The club appeared to be shuttered when The Post visited Thursday.
Club Heat, another Bronx strip club that dispenses EBT cash, is also no stranger to violence. A 33-year-old woman was fatally shot in the head outside the club in December 2011.
Critics blasted the government for turning a blind eye to welfare’s sleazy money.
“This is morally scandalous,” said Michael Tanner, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. “I have nothing against strip clubs, but that’s not what benefits are for. I don’t blame [recipients]. If you are poor, it’s a crummy life and you want to have a drink or see a naked woman. I blame the people who are in charge of this.”
Welfare recipients receive food stamps and cash assistance under the federal Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. Both benefits are accessed through an EBT card, but only cash assistance — meant for housing, utilities and household necessities — can be accessed at ATMs.
A single-person household could receive a maximum $200 in monthly food stamps plus $158 in cash assistance. A family of four could get as much as $668 in food stamps and $433 in cash.
The food-stamp program prohibits the purchase of booze, tobacco and lottery tickets with an EBT card. But with the cash-assistance program, users can blow money on strippers or a six-pack and to tap welfare dollars from liquor stores, casinos and adult-oriented establishments.
The Post found dozens of pubs, nightclubs and tobacco shops where welfare dough was dispensed — and presumably spent.
The Boiler Room, a gay dive bar in the East Village, had $120 and $60 transactions a minute apart on Jan. 17, 2011. The bar is around the corner from a Bank of America that takes EBT cards.
West Village tobacco shop Shisha International had EBT transactions ranging from $40 to $180 in 2011. The store is near at least two EBT-friendly ATMs.
Legislative efforts to crack down on sinful spending have fallen short.
State Sen. Tom Libous (R-Binghamton) passed a bill in his chamber in June that would outlaw welfare withdrawals at gambling dens, strip clubs and other venues of vice, but the measure is gathering dust in the Democratic-controlled Assembly.
Libous is looking for a new Assembly sponsor to carry the bill in that house in the upcoming legislative session, after past sponsor George Latimer (D-Rye) was elected to the state Senate.
With only one of the city’s Assembly members, Nicole Malliotakis (R-B’klyn./SI), as a co-sponsor, the bill faces an uphill battle.
The Assembly typically doesn’t support welfare reform, because its more liberal members think the measures “hurt the poor,” Libous said. If the bill remains stalled, the state stands to lose $120 million in federal welfare funding.
The Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act, signed by President Obama last February, requires states to prohibit sinful welfare spending by 2014. If they don’t, they’ll forfeit federal cash.
“The people who are stealing from the program are the ones I want to go after,” Libous said. “Not someone who lost his job or a single mom who has to feed her kids. That’s what this program is supposed to be for.”
A spokesman with the US Department of Health and Human Services said states make their own rules on EBT cards.
Some states already limit where EBT cards can withdraw money.
A rep from OTDA, New York’s welfare office, said the state does not choose or regulate which retailers get ATMs that handle EBTs. Instead, retailers decide whether to use an ATM that accepts welfare cards.






I deal with people on Medicaid and Welfare every day.
-- One woman was angry because her IL Medicaid (called Illinois All Kids) would not cover medical visit for her and her four children to a doctor in Las Vegas. Appears they were able to afford a vacation, but couldn't afford to pay their own medical services. She kept calling it "my insurance" and I had to point out that it was actually the states insurance and they allow her and her family to be on the plan and the taxes of the citizens of IL pay their costs. She cussed me out and hung up the phone.

-- Recently I spoke with a gentleman who was angry that there was a delay in "his money" being sent to "his EBT card." He said he tried to do it online, but it failed on his computer, his iPad and his smart phone. It also failed on his wife's iPad.

I pay for my own insurance and due to the cost I cannot afford a trip to Las Vegas with my family and don't have a smart phone. I only have a four year old laptop I paid for with my own money.

You can continue to blame Defense, but there are tens of billions per year (by the gov'ts own admission) that is classified as waste, abuse and fraud in the Medicaid and Welfare systems. And that doesn't even touch Medicare and the BILLIONS in abuses there, as well.




.
 

Axehead

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This article is a surprise. Sure am glad she is mentioning "mental health".

"Let's start addressing the problem," said Heitkamp. "And to me, one of the issues that I think screams out of this is the issue of mental health and the care for the mentally ill in our country, especially the dangerously mentally ill."


Democratic Senator: WH Gun-Control Plans 'Way in Extreme'
 

IanLC

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When we force God out of our schools, laws, governments, homes, etc. we allow the enemy room to come in and do what he is known for to kill, steal and destroy. God has been and still is waiting for our repentance yet we refuse Him.
"Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear." Isaiah 59:1
 

tgwprophet

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Mental Health? Years and years ago I considered Skitzophrenia ( I did not study the spelling of it ) Anyway, I wondered that when a person has multiple personalities... and if one works... why is it the rest of them know one of them worls amd knows when that one gets paid? See, I figured I would go out and get me a whole binch of these different working Skitzos and put them to work sso I could take a permament vacation. So I decided that these other "persons" living with in me should all be "work-aholics" - Just think when they all turned 65... i could collect Social Seccurity Retirement Benefits from all of them andd live like a King... unless of course onee of them was already a king.

Putting this into practice was an entirely new experience as none of Satan's Demons woulde comply... they were all fixated in entering the boddy of someone who did not want to work, so they would not have to as well. And so my conclusion was simply that these Menatlly Un-Healty people need excerism not durgs. My next venture... altering a bicycle-excercisor into a bicycle-exorciser.. to toss them Demons out so theey could get real jobs.
 

Dan57

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Foreigner said:
I have a friend who has the civilian version of the M4 rifle. It is single shot, not automatic.
One must know though that it is a simple modification that can turn it into an automatic. Yes, it is illegal and yes I think it should be illegal.
Point of fact, its not easy to modify an M4 (AR-15) rifle. A person needs all new internal parts to convert the gun to full
auto, including the selector, hammer, trigger, bolt carrier, and auto sear. The same is true for the AK-47 type rifles. You also need to drill a hole in the lower receiver for the sear, and you need a jig to locate the correct spot. Its a felony to be in possession of any of those parts and the penalty is a $100K fine or up to 15 years in prison. I have a class II license myself, but only persons with a class 3 federal license in states where its permitted can convert a firearm to full-auto.
 

Axehead

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Wyoming Lawmakers Propose ‘Gun Protection’ Legislation

Police: Fla. clerk's gun beats thief's cattle prod

Eric Holder: Gun Owners Should 'Cower' in Shame Like Smokers
The shame should be on Mr. Holder. Unfortunately, Mr. Holder did not think this way when he sent a bunch of guns to homicidal drug cartels in order to besmirch legitimate gun stores and gun owners. Didn't work out too well for Mr. Holder as Congressmen realized what he was doing. Sadly, he was protected by the administration and is still around.
 

Rex

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Heres the result of the one of the latest wind-nut fixes for school security.
I have never heard nor seen a door greeter at a school. I can only imagine this person was newly appointed as a deterrent to in he wake of the latest school shooting.

Some good-ol boy walks up to the school announces to the "greeter" he has a gun and his business is inside, he then proceeds to walk into the office and announce to the people present they are now dead. Then he requested a meeting with the principle about school security. He was never in possession of a gun and made total fools of the greeter and the presumed school security. Only latter be arrested.

Granted thats not perhaps the best way to make a point but I've seen how administrative minds work, They place a straw-man at the door "greeter" and pronounce the school protected, I have to give the guy credit sometimes there is only one way to make your voice heard in a room full of administrative idiots.
To bad common sense is going to cost him so much, simply because those in charge have none.


Dad poses as gunman to test school security, gets arrested
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/11/16466705-dad-poses-as-gunman-to-test-school-security-gets-arrested?lite