Response to how is it a terrible...

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theefaith

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We're not talking about the child, we're talking about the symbolic woman of verse The child is the Messiah, the Son of God.
A woman clothed with the sun: Scripturally, this woman clothed with the sun should be identified with Israel, according to Joseph’s dream (Genesis 37:9-11). In that dream, the sun represented Jacob, the moon represented Joseph’s mother Rachel, and the eleven stars were the sons of Israel which bowed down to Joseph. In this sign with twelve stars, Joseph is now among the other tribes of Israel.

In other Old Testament passages, Israel (or Zion or Jerusalem) is often represented as a woman (Isaiah 54:1-6, Jeremiah 3:20, Ezekiel 16:8-14, and Hosea 2:19-20).

not a symbolic woman but Mary the mother of a God from gen 3:15

mid Jesus is the real child and Mary is his mother then the woman must be Mary! Duh!
 

theefaith

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Replacing Christ with anything or anyone is Antichrist. We are saved by grace through faith... That grace came comes through God, the Father giving His Son as a ransom for us.
Never said anything about replacing Christ
Christ is in union with his church
His church continues his ministry and the work of redemption

all grace comes thru Mary Heb 4:16 Lk 1:28
 

Brakelite

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Behold thy mother!

What does Behold in scripture mean?

A marvelous thing!
A miraculous action!
A wonder!
An awe inspiring declaration!

Behold thy mother!

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so, he is not even speaking to John, scripture says He is addressing the disciple, therefore it applies to all disciples.

Jesus is making Mary spiritual mother to all disciples! And all disciples take Her into thier home, And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!

What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He gave Mary to be the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation! Behold, I make all things new!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.
So why do you expect Protestants to accept this??
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Who is the child? Rev 12:2
The woman in Revelation 12 isn't the OT church as Backlit says, the woman of Revelation 12 is Jehovah’s universal organization of spirit creatures that acts as his wife, both in serving him and in producing offspring.
 

theefaith

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The woman in Revelation 12 isn't the OT church as Backlit says, the woman of Revelation 12 is Jehovah’s universal organization of spirit creatures that acts as his wife, both in serving him and in producing offspring.

then why did the woman appear in the early church and the JW bride not until the 1800’s
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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then why did the woman appear in the early church and the JW bride not until the 1800’s

The woman John here sees at Revelation 12 is married to someone, and she is about to give birth. later the scriptures show that this child of this woman is “caught away to God and to his throne," at Revelation 12:5. The True God Jehovah is the one who claims the child as his own. So the woman that John sees is Jehovah’s symbolic wife.
About eight centuries earlier, Jehovah had addressed this symbolic wife, saying at Isaiah 54:5, 13 “All your sons will be persons taught by Jehovah.” Jesus quoted this prophecy and showed that these sons were his faithful followers, who are his brothers who later formed the congregation/church of anointed Christians. John 6:44, 45. So members of this congregation/Church spoken of as God’s sons, are also said to be the children of God’s symbolic wife at Romans 8:14. The apostle Paul adds information when he says at Galatians 4:26 “The Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.” The “woman” seen by John, then, is “the Jerusalem above.”
 

theefaith

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The woman John here sees at Revelation 12 is married to someone, and she is about to give birth. later the scriptures show that this child of this woman is “caught away to God and to his throne," at Revelation 12:5. The True God Jehovah is the one who claims the child as his own. So the woman that John sees is Jehovah’s symbolic wife.
About eight centuries earlier, Jehovah had addressed this symbolic wife, saying at Isaiah 54:5, 13 “All your sons will be persons taught by Jehovah.” Jesus quoted this prophecy and showed that these sons were his faithful followers, who are his brothers who later formed the congregation/church of anointed Christians. John 6:44, 45. So members of this congregation/Church spoken of as God’s sons, are also said to be the children of God’s symbolic wife at Romans 8:14. The apostle Paul adds information when he says at Galatians 4:26 “The Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.” The “woman” seen by John, then, is “the Jerusalem above.”

the new Jerusalem is the church

this is Mary the woman of Gen 3:15
Enmity total war none of his wicked works are in her immaculate purity
Clothed with the sun refers to her immaculate purity
Notice satan’s adversary
Total war between Mary and Satan in both gen 3 and rev 12
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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the new Jerusalem is the church

this is Mary the woman of Gen 3:15
Enmity total war none of his wicked works are in her immaculate purity
Clothed with the sun refers to her immaculate purity
Notice satan’s adversary
Total war between Mary and Satan in both gen 3 and rev 12

I understand what you believe I simply disagree. Genesis 3:15 isn't talking about Eve or Mary. The woman is Jehovah’s heavenly organization, the mother of his spirit-anointed servants on earth.
 

theefaith

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I understand what you believe I simply disagree. Genesis 3:15 isn't talking about Eve or Mary. The woman is Jehovah’s heavenly organization, the mother of his spirit-anointed servants on earth.

the spirit anointed servants of the JW ilk have only been around for a few hundred yrs

the church of Jesus Christ is universal Jn 3:16
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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the spirit anointed servants of the JW ilk have only been around for a few hundred yrs

the church of Jesus Christ is universal Jn 3:16

The Apostles and disciples of Jesus Christ were subjects of the Only True God YHWH just as Jesus was. Jesus was a subject of the True God YHWH. The True God YHWH is throughout the scriptures starting at Genesis 2:4. YHWH is used thousands of times in the scriptures more times than such words as Lord, God, or Sovereign Lord, so right from the beginning at Genesis on through today there has always been true witnesses for YHWH. Whether you want to pronounce those four Hebrew consonants as Yahweh or Jehovah is a personal choice but there has always been witnesses for YHWH.
 

theefaith

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The Apostles and disciples of Jesus Christ were subjects of the Only True God YHWH just as Jesus was. Jesus was a subject of the True God YHWH. The True God YHWH is throughout the scriptures starting at Genesis 2:4. YHWH is used thousands of times in the scriptures more times than such words as Lord, God, or Sovereign Lord, so right from the beginning at Genesis on through today there has always been true witnesses for YHWH. Whether you want to pronounce those four Hebrew consonants as Yahweh or Jehovah is a personal choice but there has always been witnesses for YHWH.

Why is Jesus eternal then?

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Why is Jesus eternal then?

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Why is Jesus eternal then?

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

The Apostle John in his gospel tells us about Jesus in his prehuman existence, then known as “the Word,” and rightly called “a god,” that all things came into existence through him.” John 1:1,3,14,18. Then, after telling how “the Word became flesh,” he says: “No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him.” So the Father and God of the Only Begotten Son of God first brought into existence his Only Begotten Son then through his Only Begotten Son brought everything and everyone into existence through his Only Begotten Son.
So right from the beginning of creation the Only Begotten Son has existed and will exist forever for eternity. The True God YHWH has always worked through his Only Begotten Son.
This relationship is also beautifully described at Proverbs 8:22-31. After describing the initial preparations for earth’s creation, God’s Son, the Word, says: “Then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.” What an appealing picture of family life, with a Father specially fond of his Son, and the Son, in turn, very fond of that which we know is now given into his care by his Father, those things bound up with the human family.
 

theefaith

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The Apostle John in his gospel tells us about Jesus in his prehuman existence, then known as “the Word,” and rightly called “a god,” that all things came into existence through him.” John 1:1,3,14,18. Then, after telling how “the Word became flesh,” he says: “No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him.” So the Father and God of the Only Begotten Son of God first brought into existence his Only Begotten Son then through his Only Begotten Son brought everything and everyone into existence through his Only Begotten Son.
So right from the beginning of creation the Only Begotten Son has existed and will exist forever for eternity. The True God YHWH has always worked through his Only Begotten Son.
This relationship is also beautifully described at Proverbs 8:22-31. After describing the initial preparations for earth’s creation, God’s Son, the Word, says: “Then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.” What an appealing picture of family life, with a Father specially fond of his Son, and the Son, in turn, very fond of that which we know is now given into his care by his Father, those things bound up with the human family.

so Jesus is divine uncreated and eternal?
So you believe in the trinity now?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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so Jesus is divine uncreated and eternal?
So you believe in the trinity now?
You really don't read my posts. One of the things I said in post # 33 is that the Father and God of the Only Begotten Son of God first brought into existence his Only Begotten Son then through his Only Begotten Son brought everything and everyone into existence through his Only-Begotten Son.
 

theefaith

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You really don't read my posts. One of the things I said in post # 33 is that the Father and God of the Only Begotten Son of God first brought into existence his Only Begotten Son then through his Only Begotten Son brought everything and everyone into existence through his Only-Begotten Son.

his humanity or his divinity
Christ is eternally begotten of the father

God gives life gen 2:7
HS gives life matt 1:20
Christ gives life Jn 20:21-23 and Jn 11:25
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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his humanity or his divinity
Christ is eternally begotten of the father

God gives life gen 2:7
HS gives life matt 1:20
Christ gives life Jn 20:21-23 and Jn 11:25

The True God YHWH brought intelligent life into existence long before Genesis 2:7. The person that the Only True God YHWH, brought into existence first, is his Only-Begotten Son, then through him Then Only True God YHWH brought all other things and all other life such as Angels, plant life, animals and then humans into existence.
 

theefaith

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The True God YHWH brought intelligent life into existence long before Genesis 2:7. The person that the Only True God YHWH, brought into existence first, is his Only-Begotten Son, then through him Then Only True God YHWH brought all other things and all other life such as Angels, plant life, animals and then humans into existence.

no the son or word is eternally begotten of the father


Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Like everyone else you must submit to the teaching authority of Christ thru his apostles and be in union with Christ and his saints or go the way of the heretics believing error

Christ is divine
Trinity is true doctrine
Matt 16:18 bound on earth
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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no the son or word is eternally begotten of the father


Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Like everyone else you must submit to the teaching authority of Christ thru his apostles and be in union with Christ and his saints or go the way of the heretics believing error

Christ is divine
Trinity is true doctrine
Matt 16:18 bound on earth

I am within scripture and following the teaching of Christ and his Apostles whether you believe that or not. Those who believe in counsels of men which state that doctrines such as the Trinity, hellfire and immortality of the Soul are scriptural are the ones who are the weeds and are in error. Matthew 16:18 is proof that you are in error because the rock that the true church is founded on is the greatest of all rocks Jesus Christ.

We know how Peter himself understood Jesus’ words, at Matthew 16:18. Growing up an Israelite, Peter was familiar with various Hebrew prophecies speaking of a “stone” or a “cornerstone.” Prophecies like Isaiah 8:13,14; and Isaiah 28:16, another is at Zechariah 3:9.
When he quoted one of these scriptures in a letter to his fellow believers, Peter explained at 1 Peter 2:4-8 that the prophesied “cornerstone” was the Lord Jesus Christ, the Messiah. Peter used the same greek term pe'tra the same word found in Jesus’ statement at Matthew 16:18 for Christ alone, Peter showed in scripture that the true church is founded on Jesus Christ.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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Behold thy mother!

What does Behold in scripture mean?

A marvelous thing!
A miraculous action!
A wonder!
An awe inspiring declaration!

Behold thy mother!

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so, he is not even speaking to John, scripture says He is addressing the disciple, therefore it applies to all disciples.

Jesus is making Mary spiritual mother to all disciples! And all disciples take Her into thier home, And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!

What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He gave Mary to be the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation! Behold, I make all things new!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.
There is only one Church and it's Catholic, Roman Catholic could be anything and has been but within the Catholic Body their is the true Church.
Mary is the Body of Christ Jesus, as we are also the Body of Jesus Christ and he is our Spiritual wellspring.
Without Mary we would not of had Jesus, so yes she is that Spark of the Body of us all as she is our Mother in Emmanuel = God with us, as she said Yes to the Angel let it be so.

No Mary no Emmanuel, No God with us ?

If you are not in the Body of Christ you are not taking part of the wellspring.

Who was it that was Full ? only St Stephen and Mary that the Bible points to.

Rachel was the true Wife that Jacob truly only wanted and truly Loved.