Revelation chapter 11 questions

[Douggg]

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

The part I highlighted in red does not take place until a thousand years after Jesus's return to the split the mount of Olives in half.

Zechariah 14:16-19 indicates that this present earth is still in place - not the New earth of Revelation 21.

 

[Davy]

Scratch any idea that God's new heavens and a new earth begins on the "day of the Lord" when Lord Jesus returns. That is man's supposition.

Before God's Eternity of a new heavens and a new earth will begin, Jesus must reign over the wicked, making them His footstool, for "one thousand" years, with His elect reigning with Him. This is what most of the Revelation 20 Chapter is about.

Only AFTER... God's Great White Throne Judgment, the FINAL judgment that will decide who all will perish in the "lake of fire", AND... the actual casting into the "lake of fire" of the wicked unsaved, and the abode of hell, and death, must happen first.

Then God's new heavens and a new earth.


But men's Amillennial doctrine, which @Truth7t7 believes, instead promotes the false idea that all the wicked are already judged to perish and do perish in the lake of fire on the day of Christ's return, the "day of the Lord". Not so per the Revelation 20 Scripture. And if there is only ONE Bible Scripture example that exists to show the wicked are not yet... destroyed after Jesus' future return, then that is enough to dump the whole Amill theory in the dirt and never look back at it again.

 

[Truth7t7]

The part I highlighted in red does not take place until a thousand years after Jesus's return to the split the mount of Olives in half.

Zechariah 14:16-19 indicates that this present earth is still in place - not the New earth of Revelation 21.

You were clearly shown that Zechariah 14:1 shows (The Day Of The Lord) is taking place, Zechariah 14:12 shows the Lord's last day fire taking place in detail as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, flesh, eyes, tongues, by the Lord's fire

Douggg you don't want to acknowledge the "Fact" that Jesus returns in fire and "Destroys" all the wicked at his return, just as the scripture below teaches

Questions:

1.) douggg when Jesus is revealed will it be in fire destroying the wicked as seen in Luke 17:29-30 below?

2.) douggg do you believe that there is "only one" future (The Day Of The Lord)?

Luke 17:28-29KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Zechariah 14:1 & 12KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[Truth7t7]

Zechariah 14:16-19 indicates that this present earth is still in place - not the New earth of Revelation 21.

Zechariah 14:16 Who Will Be Left Of The Nations?​

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 21:24-27KJV
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Truth7t7]

Before God's Eternity of a new heavens and a new earth will begin, Jesus must reign over the wicked, making them His footstool, for "one thousand" years, with His elect reigning with Him. This is what most of the Revelation 20 Chapter is about.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Before God's Eternity of a new heavens and a new earth will begin, Jesus must reign over the wicked, making them His footstool, for "one thousand" years, with His elect reigning with Him. This is what most of the Revelation 20 Chapter is about.

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Douggg]

Questions:

1.) douggg when Jesus is revealed will it be in fire destroying the wicked as seen in Luke 17:29-30 below?

Luke 17:29-30 is making a comparison to the destruction of the wicked when Jesus returns. But not inferring the method as by fire, because a comparison was also made to the time of flood, Noah and the ark in Luke 17:26-27, which the method was by water.

2.) douggg do you believe that there is "only one" future (The Day Of The Lord)?

Yes, but not as a literal 24 hour day. The Day of the Lord once it begins will last for eternity. Having segments to it.

At it's beginning, the Day of the Lord, God's wrath will begin.. The Day of the Lord will begin when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act described in 2Thessalonians2:4, which his act will incur God's wrath.

 

[Truth7t7]

Luke 17:29-30 is making a comparison to the destruction of the wicked when Jesus returns. But not inferring the method as by fire, because a comparison was also made to the time of flood, Noah and the ark in Luke 17:26-27, which the method was by water.


Yes, but not as a literal 24 hour day. The Day of the Lord once it begins will last for eternity. Having segments to it.

At it's beginning, the Day of the Lord, God's wrath will begin.. The Day of the Lord will begin when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act described in 2Thessalonians2:4, which his act will incur God's wrath.

View attachment 87023

douggg your response is a fairy tale as compared to scripture, Luke 17:29-30 isn't a direct instruction on fire destruction, and you alude to a water flood, a joke!

(The day of the Lord) last for an eternity, not even in the ball park, you can't be taken seriously, no further response is required

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[William Barton]

Revelation Chapter 11 gives the very best window into what's going to take place during earth's future last 3.5 years of existence, and the (Two Witnesses) will bring (Literal Plagues) upon the wicked world, a complete replay of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt (Literally)

Yes Rev Chapter 11 represents the (Last Trump And Second Coming vs 15) and (Final Judgment vs 18)

Yes the chapter shows literal prophets returned (Two Witnesses) in physical bodies that die, they will lay dead in a literal Jerusalem street, as a literal world watches in celebration of their deaths

Yes the very "same hour" the (Two Witnesses) are raised to heaven the 2nd woe comes in the great earthquake with the 3rd woe coming even quicker in the 7th Trump, Second Coming, Final Judgement, End Of This World

Jesus Is The Lord

There was a rebellion in heaven many years ago, in which Satan was thrown down to our earth, along with the angels who had joined his rebellion (Ezekiel 28:16).

See also Revelation 19:11-28 (Millennial reign of Jesus).

 

[Douggg]

douggg your response is a fairy tale as compared to scripture, Luke 17:29-30 isn't a direct instruction on fire destruction, and you alude to a water flood, a joke!

You were the one who is claiming that Luke 17:29-30 is an indication of Jesus coming in fire. I was merely pointing out the error of your thinking. As the Luke 17:26-27 comparison, destruction came by a flood. Jesus is not coming in fire, nor in water.

Jesus is coming with power and great glory. You might should look at Matthew 17:1 as a preview of His coming in great glory. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Truth7t7]

There was a rebellion in heaven many years ago, in which Satan was thrown down to our earth, along with the angels who had joined his rebellion (Ezekiel 28:16).

See also Revelation 19:11-28 (Millennial reign of Jesus).

Thanks for the response, I don't see your point?

I agree Satan was cast out, do you also believe in a future, literal, Millennial Kingdom on this earth?

 

[Truth7t7]

You were the one who is claiming that Luke 17:29-30 is an indication of Jesus coming in fire. I was merely pointing out the error of your thinking. As the Luke 17:26-27 comparison, destruction came by a flood. Jesus is not coming in fire, nor in water.

Jesus is coming with power and great glory. You might should look at Matthew 17:1 as a preview of His coming in great glory. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Please explain the bold red below, and how Jesus will be revealed from the heavens in "Flaming Fire" taking vengeance?

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[Davy]

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, ....

Yeah there will be a "thousand years" reign by Christ Jesus and His elect at His return.

The Revelation 20 Chapter declares Jesus will reign a literal "thousand years" immediately after His future return. The Old Testament prophets point to it also (Zechariah 14:16-21; Isaiah 24:20-23; Psalms 149:4-9; Isaiah 14:1-2; Isaiah 14:5-10).

 

[Davy]

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Yes Revelation 20:1-6 IS... about a future "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect, AS WRITTEN. You are kicking against the pricks (cactus) like Saul by rejecting that Scripture and instead following men's old bottle traditions.

Rev 20:1-6
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
KJV

 

[Truth7t7]

You were the one who is claiming that Luke 17:29-30 is an indication of Jesus coming in fire. I was merely pointing out the error of your thinking. As the Luke 17:26-27 comparison, destruction came by a flood. Jesus is not coming in fire, nor in water.

Jesus is coming with power and great glory. You might should look at Matthew 17:1 as a preview of His coming in great glory. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The scripture is very simple and easy to understand, the heavens and earth are reserved unto fire on (The Day Of The Lord) seen below in verse 2 Peter 3:10 (Fire)

Zechariah 14:1 clearly states that (The Day Of The Lord) is coming and verse 12 clearly shows the Lord's (Fire) consuming men as they stand on their feet, flesh, eyes, tongues

2 Peter 3:7-10KJV
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[Davy]

The scripture is very simple and easy to understand, the heavens and earth are reserved unto fire on (The Day Of The Lord) seen below in verse 2 Peter 3:10 (Fire)

Zechariah 14:1 clearly states that (The Day Of The Lord) is coming and verse 12 clearly shows the Lord's (Fire) consuming men as they stand on their feet, flesh, eyes, tongues

2 Peter 3:7-10KJV
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

Notice that Truth7t7's Bible version does not contain the Book of Revelation, which was given LATER THAN THE GOSPELS to REVEAL more detail about the END of this world.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yeah there will be a "thousand years" reign by Christ Jesus and His elect at His return.

The Revelation 20 Chapter declares Jesus will reign a literal "thousand years" immediately after His future return. The Old Testament prophets point to it also (Zechariah 14:16-21; Isaiah 24:20-23; Psalms 149:4-9; Isaiah 14:1-2; Isaiah 14:5-10).

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving the existing heavens and earth by "Fire" (The End), there won't be a1,000 year kingdom following

 

[Davy]

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving the existing heavens and earth by "Fire" (The End), there won't be a1,000 year kingdom following

Surface of this earth only, is what is burned up by God's consuming fire on the day of Christ's future 2nd coming, NOT the whole earth. You should have understood this by what Peter showed in that 2 Peter 3 Chapter about the previous destructions God did upon the surface of this ancient earth. Peter covered God's destruction by an ancient flood to end the 1st earth age when Lucifer first rebelled against Him, and then later again during this present 2nd earth age in Noah's day with another flood. The only difference this next time is He will use His consuming fire instead of a flood of waters, and, as shown at the end of Hebrews 12, He will shake not only this earth this next time, but also Heaven.

Proof of this is easy in His Word, because none of the wicked will see God's future new heavens and a new earth time. They will be cast into the lake of fire first.

 

[Douggg]

The scripture is very simple and easy to understand, the heavens and earth are reserved unto fire on (The Day Of The Lord) seen below in verse 2 Peter 3:10 (Fire)

This present earth and its heaven will be destroyed at the end of the 1000 years in Revelation 20:11.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So the 2nd temple which Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. setup an idol to Zeus in, and the Romans also with their Aelia Capitolina where the 2nd temple had been, wasn't that 2nd temple still... God's Temple the Jews built by His direction when they returned from the Babylon captivity? Yes, I believe it was.

The actual meaning of the "abomination of desolation" from Daniel 11:31 which Lord Jesus quoted for the end of this world is about an object of false worship placed in the Jewish stone temple that was dedicated to God, thus SPIRITUALLY DESOLATING it. That's what the 'desolation' idea is about, not a desolation of destruction, but one of spiritual ruin because of false worship.

You're missing the point. The second temple was ordained to be built by God regardless of what happened there later. No future physical temple would ever be ordained to be built by God, so no future physical temple is a temple that scripture would call God's temple or the temple of God.