Revelation: Technology and the Mark of the Beast

[Dave L]

What did you think of my post no. 38?
Don't these advances mean anything to you?
Isn't it a barometer of things to come?

It's dangerous to add ideas to Revelation.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's dangerous to add ideas to Revelation.

LOL
I certainly won't be the one to add ideas to a book I've never even completely read or studied.

However, the mark of the beast will not come suddenly. By the time it comes to us, we'll accept it since it will not be something new.

As to adding to scripture...yes, I do agree with that.
But adding to scripture is making it say something it is not saying...
In this case, I'm just explaining my understanding of HOW it could happen.

 

[Dave L]

LOL
I certainly won't be the one to add ideas to a book I've never even completely read or studied.

However, the mark of the beast will not come suddenly. By the time it comes to us, we'll accept it since it will not be something new.

As to adding to scripture...yes, I do agree with that.
But adding to scripture is making it say something it is not saying...
In this case, I'm just explaining my understanding of HOW it could happen.

The Beast and his mark have plagued the church from the first century on. Those looking for the symbol to appear will readily miss it. But if you look for what the symbol represents, we can see it throughout history and even today. And we can know what to expect in the future.

 

[Nancy]

It is undeniably a literal physical mark of some kind, as it is designated to grant financial powers particularly. In addition to this, comparing the contexts of the two chapters doesn't subvert this view as we should not be surprised that the anti-Christ will have a physical counterpart to Christ's spiritual provisions, as all things Satan works is by and in the flesh against the Spirit, and vice versa.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Enoch111]

I certainly won't be the one to add ideas to a book I've never even completely read or studied.

Now would be a good time to get started. But avoid commentaries.

 

[Hidden In Him]

It is undeniably a literal physical mark of some kind, as it is designated to grant financial powers particularly. In addition to this, comparing the contexts of the two chapters doesn't subvert this view as we should not be surprised that the anti-Christ will have a physical counterpart to Christ's spiritual provisions, as all things Satan works is by and in the flesh against the Spirit, and vice versa.

Remember, John is speaking about a vision. Do you expect to see any green horses or red dragons too?

@Dave L: I think Thir7ySev3n's point is valid. Are you spiritualizing Revelations to the point of interpreting "buying and selling" as not referring to literal buying and selling? Without wanting to sound too sarcastic, that kind of hyper-spiritualizing would open the door for teaching such wild ideas as that the Jesus who is its author was not the literal Jesus.

What do you believe is to be taken literally in the book?

P.S. Don't post a link to some article I won't read. I'm asking critically, not out of interest.

 

[Enoch111]

The Beast and his mark have plagued the church from the first century on.

How can anyone arrive at this conclusion? That would be the same as saying that the Antichrist has been reigning on earth for over 20 centuries. Which is absurd.

The Antichrist and Satan are given just 3 1/2 years to do their worst. That is also expressed as 42 months, or 1260 days, or time (1 yr), times (2 yrs), and half a time (six months). Now please note very carefully:

And there was given unto him [the Beast, the Antichrist] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev 13:5).

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. (Rev 12:6) [3 score = 3 x 20 = 60]

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev 11:2,3)

The future 70th week of of Daniel is a period of 7 years, with the first 3 1/2 years assigned to the Antichrist, and the last 3 1/2 years assigned to the Great Tribulation (also called the Day of the LORD).

 

[Hidden In Him]

No, but most all of the Reformed creeds identify the papacy as Antichrist in writing.

That's depressing. How pitiful that most of the Reformed Creeds can't tell the difference between the Antichrist and the Whore.

I wonder at the confidence of so many who proclaim they know what the mark of the beast is, without any idea as to the identity of the beast.

I agree. And it is most certainly NOT the Catholic Church.

 

[Phoneman777]

Really, are you sure of that, as what you have suggested does not line up with the scriptures.

Shalom

Everyone knows the Bible dates the First Resurrection at the Second Coming. What point is there a Mark of the Beast after that?

 

[brakelite]

@Hidden In Him
If the papacy is not the Antichrist, then on what basis were all the reformers wrong? They may have disagreed on some things as they all came out of the papal system at different times and in different circumstances, yet on that point they all agreed, and that one point, that the Roman church was the Antichrist, the man of sin, was foremost in establishing the reformation. Identifying the papacy as the Antichrist, and having the biblical evidence to prove it, was what gave the reformation its power to bring people out of that apostate system.
It is no coincidence that today, protestants are returning to Rome on the back of a rejection of what the reformers all agreed on. Their testimony is being denied... The Bible evidence ignored... And surprise surprise, the Catholic church is all of a sudden Christian.

 

[Jay Ross]

Everyone knows the Bible dates the First Resurrection at the Second Coming. What point is there a Mark of the Beast after that?

Really, I know of no scriptures that support that understanding. Rev. 20:4-6 does not indicate or support what you are suggesting.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

This may be the Amillennial position, but it is simply NOT TRUE.

As to the the Mark of the Beast, there will be a real mark on each person as stated in Revelation, and it is more than likely that current or future technology will be used to apply this mark (possibly an implant).

It is also more than likely that even though all the identification numbers will be individualized, they will incorporate 666 either as a prefix or a suffix. Since the Greek letter stigma is one of those 6s, this mark will be a stigma on each one who takes it, and they all will be damned.

The number 6 represents 1 from perfection.
The number 6 stated 3 times represents that fact.
The works of the Devil are great nearly perfect to mans carnal mind but it is not of God.

The number of God is represented as 7 or 777.

So we have this great Man who will be truly admired and do good works and who leads people astray just like Hitler did.
Remember Hitler was a good and great person in the beginning, if you know history in depth, but all he was truly doing was just setting them up.

666 is represented in the Star that the Egyptians made, it's the same thing that Satanic Jews worship because they do not know God, this so called Star has 6 points and 6

 

[Hidden In Him]

@Hidden In Him
If the papacy is not the Antichrist, then on what basis were all the reformers wrong? They may have disagreed on some things as they all came out of the papal system at different times and in different circumstances, yet on that point they all agreed, and that one point, that the Roman church was the Antichrist, the man of sin, was foremost in establishing the reformation. Identifying the papacy as the Antichrist, and having the biblical evidence to prove it, was what gave the reformation its power to bring people out of that apostate system.
It is no coincidence that today, protestants are returning to Rome on the back of a rejection of what the reformers all agreed on. Their testimony is being denied... The Bible evidence ignored... And surprise surprise, the Catholic church is all of a sudden Christian.

Brakelite, this is precisely the problem with much of your theology and those who espouse it. You're trapped in 16th century thinking. I appreciate you trying to base your "authority" for it on people like the Reformers, but if you can fathom the possibility, the Reformers were wrong on a few things. As I have stated before at this forum, Catholicism will eventually lead a unification movement that includes much of the mainline Protestant denominations in fulfilling the prophesies in Revelation 17-18 regarding the Whore of Babylon. But the whore is not the Antichrist, and the Antichrist is not the whore. They are two separate entities entirely, and to say they are the same thing is just plain sloppy exegesis.

I could say more, but I know you are set in your theology so I doubt you'd be interested.

 

[Enoch111]

The number 6 represents 1 from perfection.
The number 6 stated 3 times represents that fact.

The number 6 = the number of a man
The number 666 = the number of a man possessed and controlled by Satan

 

[brakelite]

Brakelite, this is precisely the problem with much of your theology and those who espouse it. You're trapped in 16th century thinking. I appreciate you trying to base your "authority" for it on people like the Reformers, but if you can fathom the possibility, the Reformers were wrong on a few things. As I have stated before at this forum, Catholicism will eventually lead a unification movement that includes much of the mainline Protestant denominations in fulfilling the prophesies in Revelation 17-18 regarding the Whore of Babylon. But the whore is not the Antichrist, and the Antichrist is not the whore. They are two separate entities entirely, and to say they are the same thing is just plain sloppy exegesis.

I could say more, but I know you are set in your theology so I doubt you'd be interested.

Has it occurred to you that the Antichrist is an entity that incorporates the whore, the state, and apostate Protestantism? In the 16 th century, the Antichrist was the RCC. A union even then of church and state. For a time that union was dissolved by the French. But reinstated by the Italians. But it is growing into a global union, as you have pointed out. And also as you say, it will incorporate major Protestant dominations and other faiths as well. The entire composite is Antichrist.... But the core and foundation lies in Rome.

 

[Dave L]

That's depressing. How pitiful that most of the Reformed Creeds can't tell the difference between the Antichrist and the Whore.


I agree. And it is most certainly NOT the Catholic Church.

This is where the notion that the Papacy had turned into the Antichrist came from, in case you are interested. Catholic bishop Arnulf of Orleans would be the first on record to identify the “man of sin” as the Papacy during his days in the 10th century. Catholic abbot Joachim of Floris in 1190 and the archbishop Eberhard II in 1240 also related the papacy to the Antichrist. Synopsis of the End Times; A look at the popular beliefs of today by Mike Morrill.

 

[Dave L]

How can anyone arrive at this conclusion? That would be the same as saying that the Antichrist has been reigning on earth for over 20 centuries. Which is absurd.

The Antichrist and Satan are given just 3 1/2 years to do their worst. That is also expressed as 42 months, or 1260 days, or time (1 yr), times (2 yrs), and half a time (six months). Now please note very carefully:

And there was given unto him [the Beast, the Antichrist] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev 13:5).

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. (Rev 12:6) [3 score = 3 x 20 = 60]

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev 11:2,3)

The future 70th week of of Daniel is a period of 7 years, with the first 3 1/2 years assigned to the Antichrist, and the last 3 1/2 years assigned to the Great Tribulation (also called the Day of the LORD).

Jesus fulfilled Daniel's 70th week on schedule, putting an end to the Old Covenant sacrificial system through his death on the cross.

The reason people cannot see the Antichrist in history, is because they look for the symbols of Revelation to appear in the future. Instead of seeing what the symbols represented in history, and in the present and in the future.

 

[Thir7ySev3n]

Welcome to the forum.
I was asked to look for you on another forum but had no luck.
(by Angeltrue)
Happy to see you here.

Thanks. I'm on the Christian Forums as well by the same name, but I just became aware of this alternate forum. I'll be here just as much anyways, but if you have trouble finding me there, using the "posted by" section of the search should produce results if my account name for whatever reason doesn't.

This makes me think of persons that are having chips implanted in their hands to get into their home, etc. This is happening in Australia.

Also, it seems tattoos are becoming common place so that they will be accepted as "normal" sometime in the near future.
I don't mean that they are not normal in a perverse way, but that they were not accepted by everyone, and eventually they will be (if it hasn't happened already).

Here in Italy they attempted to make a law that one had to use only a card for purchases (I believe back in 2011/2012) but fortunately the right stepped in and blocked this move.

There has even been much recent news coverage on what you're talking about relating to the micro-chips. It makes sense as an option preferable to the globalists over any external technological "convenience" device because a sufficiently advanced device of this kind is not only capable of tracking the location and activities of every citizen of a global government, but can also be employed to control bodily functions at the elites arbitration (such a birth control micro-chips which already exist). The kind of submission of your members to the anti-Christ system this convenience and social security could demand would be nothing short of worship, which is precisely what is declared everyone who receives the mark will give to the beast and the dragon/Satan (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 13:8).

It is notable that Revelation in this chapter (13) also discusses the image of the beast that is given power to speak and operate in his place. I had wondered what this image was going to manifest as since it seemed so bizarre until I saw concurrent with these other technological advancements so much coverage relating to the development of AI and its imminent future applications. Not only is AI in the form of robotics literally an image that can be given power to speak (and has, as in this example), but Daily Mail, Business Insider, Big Think, CNET, Wired and others discuss the emerging Church of AI that is being developed with explicit intention of making a god of this technological "paragon." Daniel prophesies that in "the time of the end" there will be a king who "shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women. He shall not pay attention to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all. He shall honor the god of fortresses instead of these. A god whom his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts." (Daniel 11:37-38)

As one article aptly stated: "A decade ago, the prospect of a religion that worships Artificial Intelligence would have seemed absurd, a fringe delusion both socially unacceptable and technologically improbable. In the last several years, however, advances in machine learning, robotics, cognitive science, genetic editing, and other fields have given rise to the belief that the destiny of our species will be determined by technology—whether it saves us or destroys us."

Concerning tattoos, it is not a salvation issue (not saying you claimed such) but still something to be avoided. I am however more worried about the agenda the popularizing of tattoos is being exploited to advance, which is connected to the same micro-chipping agenda and is discussed by Google director Regina E Dugan explicitly in this video where she states that the younger generation will be more receptive to an RFID chip if it is presented in the form of a tattoo.

Definitely glad that agenda was delayed in Italy, at least for now.

Remember, John is speaking about a vision. Do you expect to see any green horses or red dragons too?

The problem with this argument is that most of the prophecies in the Bible are vivid, and where imagery is used it is most often explained. The book of Revelation is no exception, where "the beast" is identified as a man (Revelation 13:18), the dragon is identified as Satan (Revelation 20:2), the dragon with seven heads and ten horns are kingdoms and rulers (Revelation 17:7-18), etc.

So yes, I do expect to see "beasts" and "dragons" as so described, since the metaphors are used to enhance our understanding of what the literal subjects are, not make it more vague and "super-spiritual" and unsearchable.

 

[Dave L]

Thanks. I'm on the Christian Forums as well by the same name, but I just became aware of this alternate forum. I'll be here just as much anyways, but if you have trouble finding me there, using the "posted by" section of the search should produce results if my account name for whatever reason doesn't.



There has even been much recent news coverage on what you're talking about relating to the micro-chips. It makes sense as an option preferable to the globalists over any external technological "convenience" device because a sufficiently advanced device of this kind is not only capable of tracking the location and activities of every citizen of a global government, but can also be employed to control bodily functions at the elites arbitration (such a birth control micro-chips which already exist). The kind of submission of your members to the anti-Christ system this convenience and social security could demand would be nothing short of worship, which is precisely what is declared everyone who receives the mark will give to the beast and the dragon/Satan (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 13:8).

It is notable that Revelation in this chapter (13) also discusses the image of the beast that is given power to speak and operate in his place. I had wondered what this image was going to manifest as since it seemed so bizarre until I saw concurrent with these other technological advancements so much coverage relating to the development of AI and its imminent future applications. Not only is AI in the form of robotics literally an image that can be given power to speak (and has, as in this example), but Daily Mail, Business Insider, Big Think, CNET, Wired and others discuss the emerging Church of AI that is being developed with explicit intention of making a god of this technological "paragon." Daniel prophesies that in "the time of the end" there will be a king who "shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women. He shall not pay attention to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all. He shall honor the god of fortresses instead of these. A god whom his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts." (Daniel 11:37-18)

As one article aptly stated: "A decade ago, the prospect of a religion that worships Artificial Intelligence would have seemed absurd, a fringe delusion both socially unacceptable and technologically improbable. In the last several years, however, advances in machine learning, robotics, cognitive science, genetic editing, and other fields have given rise to the belief that the destiny of our species will be determined by technology—whether it saves us or destroys us."

Concerning tattoos, it is not a salvation issue (not saying you claimed such) but still something to be avoided. I am however more worried about the agenda the popularizing of tattoos is being exploited to advance, which is connected to the same micro-chipping agenda and is discussed by Google director Regina E Dugan explicitly in this video where she states that the younger generation will be more receptive to an RFID chip if it is presented in the form of a tattoo.

Definitely glad that agenda was delayed in Italy, at least for now.




The problem with this argument is that most of the prophecies in the Bible are vivid, and where imagery is used it is most often explained. The book of Revelation is no exception, where "the beast" is identified as a man (Revelation 13:18), the dragon is identified as Satan (Revelation 20:2), the dragon with seven heads and ten horns are kingdoms and rulers (Revelation 17:7-18), etc.

So yes, I do expect to see "beasts" and "dragons" as so described, since the metaphors are used to enhance our understanding of what the literal subjects are, not make it more vague and "super-spiritual" and unsearchable.

Keep in mind the Pharisees missed the Kingdom thinking the prophecies were "vivid".

 

[Thir7ySev3n]

Keep in mind the Pharisees missed the Kingdom thinking the prophecies were "vivid".

This is not a great comparison though, since the Pharisees disregarded the vivid prophecies of Christ, such as Him being a suffering servant and dying for the sins of His people (Isaiah 53). The Pharisees are a perfect example of those who reject vivid prophecy to sustain their desires and worldly ambitions.