Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[amigo de christo]

Lizbeth, I want to say first that I agree with more of this than it probably seems. God grows the fruit, He prunes the branches, sanctification is real and it matters. Hebrews 13:21 says He makes us perfect in every good work, "working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight", that's Him doing it in us.

And you citing Mark 4 struck me, because I'd asked how the fruit grows and that parable says the man sleeps and rises and "the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how." But we know it is God that brings forth the fruit. As Paul said, he planted and Apollos watered, "but God gave the increase."

I also think I understand what you're actually against. There are plenty of people who claim Christ and show nothing, and treat grace as a license. I'm not arguing for a faith that leaves a man where it found him.

Early on you said that His righteousness is imputed to us "especially as babes and children," and that we need to live up to what's been imputed, and that suffering is "the price we pay." If I die tomorrow with fruit that's still green, is Christ's righteousness enough for me, or not?

I ask because of the thief on the cross. He never ripened anything. No pruning, no increase, no stewarding of talents and only hours between believing and dying. And Christ told him, "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Whatever got him in was complete the moment he believed.

for it is written be YE HOLY for I AM HOLY .
He who
has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin that he no longer should live in sin but UNTO the HOLY GOD .
For by HIM we have been given the divine nature by which we can overcome the flesh my friend .
Now to the trenches one and to the trenches all . Jesus never has , or ever will support ANY sin .
And that DARN sure includes UNBELIEF . Unbeleif is to call GOD a liar .
Lets go ahead and get this said .
So allow me to say it .
HE who recieves HIS testimony has set to his seal that GOD IS TRUE . JESUS SAID that LOVELY TRUTH
and john would also remind us
bUT he who bELEIVES NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON , HE CALLS GOD A LIAR .
So its darn certain that inclusive ecumeincal intefaith IS THE LIAR .
And as such we cannot have any part in its fornicational false love cup .
WE cannot join hands with it or any other that does it , for all who do so
are co helpers to A LIE and NOT THE TRUTH . and the blood of every man and every woman
will be on their hands . OH IT BE WARNING TIME .
Cause for all this JUDGMENT , the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT and WRATH is gonna come upon all
who loved a lie and had rejected the TRUTH . And no man
wants to be trying to explain to JESUS on HIS DAY why they WERE in any way co helpers to THAT LIE .
cause it wont BODE well for any of them .

 

[Lizbeth]

That's why Jesus said that prostitutes and publicans would enter the kingdom before the religious hypocrites and truth dissimulators.

Because they could receive HIM more readily than those old covenant religious ones who thought they were already righteous with their own righteousness.

 

[Hepzibah]

I'm not convinced that even the most mature and holy saint will understand every jot and tittle of scripture correctly. I believe their testimonies, but consider that their doctrines always need to be examined/ tested. Unless there is a point at which growing and learning ever ceases in this life.

Of course they won't, even Paul at one point was not sure if he was speaking his own understanding or not. We always will be learning but it is at levels, and once the Holy Spirit has convicted us that positional holiness is error, we can never return from that. It must be in spirit and in truth and there is no such thing as a sinning Christian. 1 John confirms that if we sin we serve the devil.

We will be then on a mission to be delivered and have a pure heart as the Holy Spirit reveals to us more and more.

 

[amigo de christo]

I'm not convinced that even the most mature and holy saint will understand every jot and tittle of scripture correctly. I believe their testimonies, but consider that their doctrines always need to be examined/ tested. Unless there is a point at which growing and learning ever ceases in this life.

The day one becomes ALL KNOWING then i guess that is the day they wont be learning .
AND i THINK you arleady know , WE ONLY KNOW IN PART .
SO every day let us spend time in prayer and in that bible .
Truly my dear sister , Even t hough by grace GOD has kept me in that bible for now over t wenty years
STILL when i read it and am reminded of even the things i do know , I NOTICE IT STIRS ME UP yet again .
Not to mention , I DO NOT understand EVERYTHING written .
BUT I DO understand by grace what GOD has given me to .
And my advice to all is , Rather than being caught up in all these so called meats and etc
LET THE HEART be established upon grace .
You ever notice something sister . By grace I HAVE ALWAYS KEPT IT REAL SIMPLE .
Have indeed POINTED TO ONLY JESUS CHRIST , and by HIS grace
have continued to do so . MEN have made things VERY cloudly and higly confusing .
BUT GOD , HIS SPIRIT can indeed make things very clear as we continue to read that bible .
And here is what has been VERY clear to me . SISTER we gots massive problems
within even christendom . this people now clings to a love NOT OF GOD
which will and do allow sins to remain , even accepting certain sins and calling them good .
And now by means of this love , they THINK be of GOD
it leads them to THE LIE OF ALL that will merge them ALL with ALL false religoins as one man .
And while they will surely beleive its of GOD and while they surely do beleive it is his will ,
SISTER NO LOVE OF GOD would DENY JESUS CHRIST , nor accept any sin . THEY are being led to total rebellion now .

 

[amigo de christo]

Because they could receive HIM more readily than those old covenant religious ones who thought they were already righteous with their own righteousness.

actually the reason why JESUS said that is , DUE TO many publicans , harlots and etc HAD REPENTED TO BELIEVE ON HIM .
And these so called leaders of the people REJECTED HIM .
ANY one who recieves CHRIST JESUS will be and is forgiven of their sins .
But unto all who bleieve not on HIM , THEY WILL DIE in their sins .
ITs real plain and very simple . THAT MAN cannot save himself . MAN was the reason
for HIS OWN down fall and his own death sentence that has come upon every man and woman born .
AND GOD has always desired the GLORY .
only many will NOT GIVE HIM the GLORY for they will NOT GIVE GLORY and HONOR TO THE SON .
But rather put the horse in the cart and tell teh world , OH these nay sayers who always say YE must believe
on CHRIST are full of ego . SOMEONE been lied to sister .
And it aint the sheep of JESUS . ITS anyone who points to anything , OTHER THAN FAITH BELEIF IN JESUS CHRIST
and all THINGS HE did teach and command .
MAN cannot pick up his cross , WITHOUT having had to FIRST BELEIVE ON HE WHO PAYED THE PRICE of our sins , ON SAID CROSS .
AND no man BY THE SPIRIT would ever have called JESUS accursed , made it seem
as if it were NOT necessary TO BELIEVE ON HIM . but many now do sister .

 

[Marvelloustime]

actually the reason why JESUS said that is , DUE TO many publicans , harlots and etc HAD REPENTED TO BELIEVE ON HIM .
And these so called leaders of the people REJECTED HIM .
ANY one who recieves CHRIST JESUS will be and is forgiven of their sins .
But unto all who bleieve not on HIM , THEY WILL DIE in their sins .
ITs real plain and very simple . THAT MAN cannot save himself . MAN was the reason
for HIS OWN down fall and his own death sentence that has come upon every man and woman born .
AND GOD has always desired the GLORY .
only many will NOT GIVE HIM the GLORY for they will NOT GIVE GLORY and HONOR TO THE SON .
But rather put the horse in the cart and tell teh world , OH these nay sayers who always say YE must believe
on CHRIST are full of ego . SOMEONE been lied to sister .
And it aint the sheep of JESUS . ITS anyone who points to anything , OTHER THAN FAITH BELEIF IN JESUS CHRIST
and all THINGS HE did teach and command .
MAN cannot pick up his cross , WITHOUT having had to FIRST BELEIVE ON HE WHO PAYED THE PRICE of our sins , ON SAID CROSS .
AND no man BY THE SPIRIT would ever have called JESUS accursed , made it seem
as if it were NOT necessary TO BELIEVE ON HIM . but many now do sister .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

for it is written be YE HOLY for I AM HOLY .
He who
has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin that he no longer should live in sin but UNTO the HOLY GOD .
For by HIM we have been given the divine nature by which we can overcome the flesh my friend .
Now to the trenches one and to the trenches all . Jesus never has , or ever will support ANY sin .
And that DARN sure includes UNBELIEF . Unbeleif is to call GOD a liar .
Lets go ahead and get this said .
So allow me to say it .
HE who recieves HIS testimony has set to his seal that GOD IS TRUE . JESUS SAID that LOVELY TRUTH
and john would also remind us
bUT he who bELEIVES NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON , HE CALLS GOD A LIAR .
So its darn certain that inclusive ecumeincal intefaith IS THE LIAR .
And as such we cannot have any part in its fornicational false love cup .
WE cannot join hands with it or any other that does it , for all who do so
are co helpers to A LIE and NOT THE TRUTH . and the blood of every man and every woman
will be on their hands . OH IT BE WARNING TIME .
Cause for all this JUDGMENT , the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT and WRATH is gonna come upon all
who loved a lie and had rejected the TRUTH . And no man
wants to be trying to explain to JESUS on HIS DAY why they WERE in any way co helpers to THAT LIE .
cause it wont BODE well for any of them .

@amigo de christo

 

[Hepzibah]

I'm not convinced that even the most mature and holy saint will understand every jot and tittle of scripture correctly. I believe their testimonies, but consider that their doctrines always need to be examined/ tested. Unless there is a point at which growing and learning ever ceases in this life.

Also, it is not just believing in a doctrine, for those who have truly lived it. It is like saying to someone who claims they have been born again (a bit premature) after a first encounter with Christ that it did not happen. It has becomne their life.

 

[amigo de christo]

Also, it is not just believing in a doctrine, for those who have truly lived it. It is like saying to someone who claims they have been born again (a bit premature) after a first encounter with Christ that it did not happen. It has becomne their life.

Many cliam to beleive in a doctrine and yet follow a t wisted version of what said doctrine in said bible
even meant . So the question to us all is
WHO have we been fo llowing . has it been men or God . Has it been men of GOD
or men of their own god who simply twisted the scripture to make it SAY what they desired it TO SAY and For to mean .

 

[Lizbeth]

Also, it is not just believing in a doctrine, for those who have truly lived it. It is like saying to someone who claims they have been born again (a bit premature) after a first encounter with Christ that it did not happen. It has becomne their life.

Doctrine is important though.....to light the way. There is power in the word. Wrong doctrine can lead in a wrong direction.

 

[amigo de christo]

Doctrine is important though.....to light the way. There is power in the word. Wrong doctrine can lead in a wrong direction.

And those who are of Christ and thus of GOD
have the SPIRIT which would put a love FOR THE TRUTH upon their heart .
You are correct to say doctrine is important . In fact so important that PUAL once
wrote ANY who preaches contrary TO THE DOCTRINE ye have learned , to mark and to AVOID such .
AND lets see what paul wrote concerning the scrips
WHICH SURE DO MAKE ONE WISE UNTO SALVATION THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST .
For all scripture is given by the inspiration OF GOD
and is profitable for , Reproof , for correction , for doctrine , for instruction in righteousness
that the man of GOD may be throughly furnished unto ALLLLLL good works .
OH yeah doctrine is important and peter knew that too
Thanks for such a lovely reminder dear sister .

 

[amigo de christo]

Doctrine is important though.....to light the way. There is power in the word. Wrong doctrine can lead in a wrong direction.

Wrong doctrine WILL always lead one in the wrong direction .
But let us all be aware and beware , for many now twist what little doctrine they even bother to use ,
unto destruction , namely theirs and all who buy their doctrine .
But the sheep do not hear them . And have overcome them for greater is HE that is in His sheep
than HE who is in the world .
JESUS will and do keep His sheep . And his sheep do look out for one the other
by HIS Spirit which do work through them all . TO HONOR and TO GLORIFY THE SON OF GOD .
To point ONLY to THE CHRIST OF GOD , JESUS CHRIST and never to the hope that cometh of man and of the world .
THEY HOPE IN GOD , IN CHRIST .
And HE shall guide them and does lead them . And now a moment of MUCH PRAISE
and MANY thanksgivings to THE GOD and TO HIS CHRIST
Cause were it not for the mercy of His g race , WE WOULD BE AS BLIND as they are and as we all once were
BEFORE HE OPENED OUR EYES . OH yes sister , TO HE WE OWE ALL . AND JESUS has the sheep
and is surely able to keep them from falling .

 

[Hepzibah]

Doctrine is important though.....to light the way. There is power in the word. Wrong doctrine can lead in a wrong direction.

Of course - everything must be verified in scripture. So long as we are in the same spiritual state as those who wrote it. Then we are qualified to interpret it. In the very early church, only those who had reached the state of being united with Christ and walking in the Spirit, in complete obedience with a testimony of reaching that state after a period of conviction by the Spirit.

 

[Lizbeth]

Of course they won't, even Paul at one point was not sure if he was speaking his own understanding or not. We always will be learning but it is at levels, and once the Holy Spirit has convicted us that positional holiness is error, we can never return from that. It must be in spirit and in truth and there is no such thing as a sinning Christian. 1 John confirms that if we sin we serve the devil.

We will be then on a mission to be delivered and have a pure heart as the Holy Spirit reveals to us more and more.

Do you not believe that our new man is holy...?..since it is created in the image of He who created it? I consider that it is not merely positional but is something more profoundly true. But we need to learn to walk in our new man. The sufferings/chastisements that we go through are to weaken and overcome/crucify our old man that we may partake of Christ's holiness and walk in the new man. We have received it in seed form in the beginning, so to speak. But it needs to grow and come forth, be perfected/completed. Otherwise we may be cut off as an unfruitful tree if the Lord so judges. How I understand what scripture is saying.

You have read much more than me......what do all those who testify and experience holiness say about this? Do they all agree with what you are saying?

 

[Lizbeth]

Of course - everything must be verified in scripture. So long as we are in the same spiritual state as those who wrote it. Then we are qualified to interpret it. In the very early church, only those who had reached the state of being united with Christ and walking in the Spirit, in complete obedience with a testimony of reaching that state after a period of conviction by the Spirit.

They would be the best examples and I'd expect they would likely be the best teachers, though not infallible surely. When we are "children" we rely more on our spiritual "parents" to feed us, but when we start growing, leaving the first principles and going on to perfection, the Lord takes over teaching us Himself. So I don't believe we have to be walking in a state of sainthood and perfected faith for Him to begin feeding us His word. And sometimes.....there is even truth (as well as a testimony of having met the Lord and a changed life as a result) from the mouths of babes.

 

[Hepzibah]

Do you not believe that our new man is holy...?..since it is created in the image of He who created it? I consider that it is not merely positional but is something more profoundly true. But we need to learn to walk in our new man. The sufferings/chastisements that we go through are to weaken and overcome/crucify our old man that we may partake of Christ's holiness and walk in the new man. We have received it in seed form in the beginning, so to speak. But it needs to grow and come forth, be perfected/completed. Otherwise we may be cut off as an unfruitful tree if the Lord so judges. How I understand what scripture is saying.

You have read much more than me......what do all those who testify and experience holiness say about this? Do they all agree with what you are saying?

Yes the new man in Christ is holy - completely holy, you cannot have partial holiness. ALL things become new. A little yeast spoils the whole dough (or whatever). At that point, the old man has been crucified and this is vital as the Holy Spirit cannot dwell where there is sin. It must be done away with. Either or. The OT is full of this message. Yes it is through the blood of Christ, but that blood enables man to be holy as it washes away his sin.

The problem is that the person who has a first encounter after being evangelised is encouraged to believe things in scripture that do not apply to him/her yet. The truth of what the new man is, has been revealed but it is not, as you say, in their real life. They still sin without intention.

Then therre is the myth about gradual sanctification that will gradually take place till death perfects it. The Bible does not say this. It emphasises today.

Yes those who say they are walking in this doctrine all say the same. They all have the terstimony that they were convicted when they stopped resisting the Holy Spirit and learned their true state whereby they could truly repent.

 

[Hepzibah]

They would be the best examples and I'd expect they would likely be the best teachers, though not infallible surely. When we are "children" we rely more on our spiritual "parents" to feed us, but when we start growing, leaving the first principles and going on to perfection, the Lord takes over teaching us Himself. So I don't believe we have to be walking in a state of sainthood and perfected faith for Him to begin feeding us His word. And sometimes.....there is even truth (as well as a testimony of having met the Lord and a changed life as a result) from the mouths of babes.

No we do not have to be fully sanctified to gain from the word. But the deeper things are not yet revealed to us. Those who have reached that stage can guide us but the emphasis must be on teaching the person to listen to God speaking.

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you not believe that our new man is holy...?..since it is created in the image of He who created it? I consider that it is not merely positional but is something more profoundly true. But we need to learn to walk in our new man. The sufferings/chastisements that we go through are to weaken and overcome/crucify our old man that we may partake of Christ's holiness and walk in the new man. We have received it in seed form in the beginning, so to speak. But it needs to grow and come forth, be perfected/completed. Otherwise we may be cut off as an unfruitful tree if the Lord so judges. How I understand what scripture is saying.

You have read much more than me......what do all those who testify and experience holiness say about this? Do they all agree with what you are saying?

By the grace of the one TRUE GOD and FATHER of our LORD CHRIST JESUS ,
i too have read much . And something didnt seem right about what he wrote .
Now its true on the surface that ONE must indeed HAVE the indwelling OF THAT SAME HOLY SPIRIT
But underneath it all i whiffed one who perhaps has a wee bit of indoctrination of men .
To learn what GOD himself inspired one need only the SPIRIT .
And any who is born again already HAS that SPIRIT . now its true there are teachers in the church
that have already well learned the doctrine . but they would never have made a mandate
that ye have to or must Sit under them to be able to learn .
I MEAN have you ever seen me once tell anyone , UNLESS YOU SIT UNDER ME ye cannot truly learn the scrips .
NO and i never will . Though its true i can help folks .
ANY leader that sits under exegis , hermes , ya gots to know the greek or etc
IS SIMPLY learning by THE WISDOM of men . And that my sister IS a fact .
Any man who is truly seasoned would have taught the people
but had done so without all that clutter and all them accusations that somehow
the ENLGISH bible is just not good enough , UNLESS you know greek , hermes and what the heck ever else they try and say .
I can read the bible just fine . And true in the beginning i did not have the understanding i do today .
STILL the SAME GOD led me and taught me . We dont need to KNOW GREEK
adn we dont need to know hebrew and we dont need to know hermes , exegis , context this or context that .
I never seen one who taught such that NEVER once twisted at least SOME of the scrips . AND THAT AGAIN is a SOLD TOTAL fact .
That is why I daily call for all to just open and read that Bible for themselves as well .
it aint nearly as complicated as many have tried to make it be sister .

 

[amigo de christo]

They would be the best examples and I'd expect they would likely be the best teachers, though not infallible surely. When we are "children" we rely more on our spiritual "parents" to feed us, but when we start growing, leaving the first principles and going on to perfection, the Lord takes over teaching us Himself. So I don't believe we have to be walking in a state of sainthood and perfected faith for Him to begin feeding us His word. And sometimes.....there is even truth (as well as a testimony of having met the Lord and a changed life as a result) from the mouths of babes.

from day one The LORD does lead us . As i KNOW you KNOW that .
But allow me to introduce you to a man
that GOD put into the bible for to learn .
And while its true i did desire to learn and have fellowship
How come when i turned on TBN , or entered into churches
NOT A ONE of them so called spiritual parents Edified me .
BUT the BIBLE Did .
Oh i am not saying there are not spiritual leaders .
I am , however saying we sure do have problems within this christain realm .
You do realize that almost all pastors leading churches now and today and for some time now
ALL have been indoctrinated to some degree IN SOMEONES THEOLOGY and got their certificate
for to pastor FROM SUCH places .
NOW if i were in charge of teaching the men on how to guide the church , GUESS what is the ONE BOOK
and THE ONLY BOOK i had put them into sister .
With zero other influences . THE BIBLE SISTER . THE BIBLE .
AND i KNOW WHY GOD DID THAT FOR ME SISTER .
Cause we are in deadly deadly dire trouble in these v ery last and very late hours .
THEY BEEN INDOCTRINATED and WORSE they are now being led to become one by that one self same inclusive love.
WE are IN TROUBLE sister . and the oNLY reason i say we is , cause bad as these churches are
my desire is still GOOD for them and that they would repent .
BUT you may as well KISS SIMPLICTY IN CHRIST GOOD BYE with most all folks now .
HECK they dont even beleive the basics any more . You cant get them to agree on squat
OTHER THAN oh we g ots to get that unity , oh we gots to find that common ground .
WE are in serious trouble sister . And the bible is not some rubix cube that only those who sit under
the wisdom of men can learn . NO sister they lie to us . THEY Lie to us all now .
I wish i had better news , but i dont . The delusion is already infiltrated and the leaven only rises now .

 

[ProDeo]

I have previously read these views on Guyon and agree that she went a little to far on some things, but her basis was correct - we are enabled through Christ to be fully united with Him and share in His divine energies making us perfect.

It is a mistake to get bound up in the details without seeing the full picture. No-one gets it perfectly correct - we are not meant to function as individuals, and the truth is not given fully to one man when it comes to the finer details. We know who is on the same page however. We also make the mistake of taking someones earlier words as their mature state.

Scripture says that God sees the heart of man. The mind often takes time to catch up.

I read Guyon more or less made quietism popular. I am trying to understand, you kneel into a prayer of silence, waiting for the Lord to speak or to experience His presence. Am I close?