Rightly Dividing Calvinism

[Big Boy Johnson]

........using Paul's theology

Meh, Jesus taught the Doctrine of Christ

Christians are called to follow the Lord, not Paul.

Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

[Josho]

= Jesus on The Cross is the only Way God has provided whereby a sinner can be forgiven all SIN.....which then allows God to give them :

"The Gift of Righteousness"
"The Gift of Salvation"
"The Gift of Eternal Life".

Now....A person's Eternal Salvation has 2 parts.

1.) Sins have to be forgiven
2.) God then gives the person a spiritual Birth.........into Himself........as "in Christ".. ."One with God".

Never mind the add ons, as a lot of that is done out of ignorance, you too may have some misunderstandings on other denominations doctrines. All these denominations have their reasons whether right or wrong, however most of them are 100% convinced that their Doctrine is correct and a lot of it is a result of man's interpretation of scriptures.

However I think you will find though most Christian denominations agree on these points. And all true Christians agree that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins so that everyone may have a chance at Eternal life if they choose to accept Him as their Lord and Saviour, it was done out of Love and Grace.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

they themselves are 100% convinced that their Doctrine is correct and a lot of it is a result of man's interpretation of scriptures.

They should have went with the leading of the Holy Spirit instead in order to get the Lord's interpretation

 

[Josho]

They should have went with the leading of the Holy Spirit instead in order to get the Lord's interpretation

Very true.

Goodnight all, I should get to sleep.

Sorry @Episkopos I haven't got around to listening to your podcasts yet, I remember listening to your music though.

 

[Behold]

most of them are 100% convinced that their Doctrine is correct and a lot of it is a result of man's interpretation of scriptures.

Of course they believe it.
A JW is taught to beleive what the JW's Teach.
Same with a Mormon.
Same with a Catholic.
Same with a Muslim.
Same with a Calvinist.

See, when you are deceived....... you dont know it.......or you would not be decieved.

So, the way you find out if someone has some deception.....or is fully deceived.......is to find out what they believe about The Cross of Christ.
As if you get that wrong....then everything is wrong, as Christianity, is built on The Cross of Christ.

See, if a denomination has a false Gospel.......then its going to disagree with The Cross of Christ as being the ONLY Way to God

Not Water.
Not Works.
Not trying to be like Jesus.
Not Praying to Mary for Salvation.
Not trying to "do Righteousness".

A.) Christian deception is always rooted in a false GOSPEL..........and that is why it tries to change how God saves you, from "Jesus only".........into....>>"through Mary".. or "by Water".. or "doing righteousness"... or "add the commandments".. or anything that is being added To The Cross.........is a FALSE Gospel. = Galatians 1:8

Deceived People........."christans"........95% .. do not believe that Jesus keeps them saved, unless they earn it somehow.
So, that is broken faith, and that is what a False Gospel does to you... Reader

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Not Water.
Not Works.
Not trying to be like Jesus.
Not Praying to Mary for Salvation.
Not trying to "do Righteousness".

Praying to mary is not biblical or taught in the New Testament..

But these other items are actually taught in the New Testament.

Can you find these instructions in the New Testament.?

 

[Behold]

But these other items are actually taught in the New Testament.

They are not related to becoming a Christian........so, when they are inserted as ""the Gospel""......as part of it, then that is "adding to The Cross" as if any of that is EQUAL to the One who died on The Cross.
Understand?
Never do that......as that denies The Cross of Christ., which denies Jesus Full Credit for being the "only Way to the Father". John 14:6

So, when you Hear or READ someone's teaching who is "adding" to THE Cross, = their teaching that you have to DO THAT, to be accepted by God, then you are dealing with a Deceiver.......who is deceived.
Learn to hear them, and learn to see them.

Let me show you another false one , Reader.

"we have to hold on to our Faith"........to go to Heaven or to Stay saved.

See that?
That person does not understand that God has already accepted their Faith, which is why they are become A Chrisitan.
So, their personal false Gospel is...>>"as long as i hold unto my faith, i keep myself saved by doing it".

See the issue?
That is not Faith in Christ....that is faith in SELF.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

They are not related to becoming a Christian........so, when they are inserted as the Gospel......as part of it, then that is "adding to The Cross" as if any of that is EQUAL to the One who died on The Cross.
Never do that......as that denies The Cross.

So you actually don't know the New Testament very well as you claim.

Should we ignore the scripture references below and consider them to be lies???

Not Water.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved

Acts 2:37.38
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Not Works.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Not trying to be like Jesus.

Ephesians 5:1
Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Not trying to "do Righteousness".

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[Behold]

Should we ignore the scripture references below and consider them to be lies???

Notice this verse., and i'll post the rest of it, that you left out.....as the rest of it, like i told you before, is the context.

"He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved, but he that believeth not, shall be Damned".

So, notice that the Damnation, and the Salvation is based on BELIEVING........and you see that water is not related to being Damned.
And that is because its CHRIST REJECTION......or to have never believed in Jesus.....is your Damnatio, and FAITH in Christ is your Salvation.
Water has no part in Salvation or Damnation......because water is just water.

 

[Behold]

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

John is talking to believers, who are already "made righteousous".......because they have received the ""Gift of Righteousness""

How do you know?

Its because if John was telling unbelievers, who are not Christians that "doing Righteousness, is to be righteous", then John would be lying.
No once can "do Righteousness".......unless they are in IT, having become .. "THE Righteousness of God, in Christ".

 

[Behold]

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

Peter in Acts 2, had not met Paul......and didnt know Paul's Gospel.
This is why Peter is telling the JEWS..........the same message that John the Baptist told them, and that is not "The Gospel".

Notice that Peter's statement has No Jesus on The Cross in it.......and you can't have a TRUE Gospel without The Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross being TAUGHT.

 

[Behold]

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

"created in Christ Jesus"..........= this is a Born Again Christian who is "in Christ"... now created as a "new Creation"" "In Christ".

And we are to "present our bodies as a living sacrifice to God, which is our reasonable SERVICE">.. to God..........is what Paul teaches.

Ephesians 5:1
Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.

If you are an "imitator of God" and you are not born agian, then you are going to Hell, while you are imitating God.

Also, what we want to do is serve God and Christ, and Paul teaches that the perfect way to do that is...

"Be a follower of Me, as i follow Christ".....and that means........study my ministry, my lifestyle, and my doctrine.......and stay there.

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

God Foreknows who is going to trust in Christ before they are born.......even before the Earth was created.
God knows who will trust in Christ and who wont......and for those who will trust...... then once they do, and are now "in Christ".. they are ""predestined"" from this = to be conformed into the image of Christ"

They are not predestined to be born again.
Noone is predestined to be born again...but after you are born again... "in CHRIST"....then you are "predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ"

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

water is not related to being Damned.

Disobedience to what Jesus says is

that is because its CHRIST REJECTION

Disobedience to what Jesus says is rejecting Him.

John is talking to believers, who are already "made righteousous"

Right and if they quit doing righteousness then they are no longer righteous

Those not doing righteousness are doing UN-righteousness which is living in sin.

Being led by the Holy Spirit walking after the Spirit is doing righteousness

Choosing to not led by the Holy Spirit walking after the flesh is doing UN-righteousness

"He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved, but he that believeth not, shall be Damned"

No need for those that do not believe to be baptized since they are already damned so your point is moot according to Jesus' instructions on being baptized

Rejecting Jesus' instructions is rejecting Jesus

 

[Behold]

Disobedience to what Jesus says is

Little one, i was water baptized.

So, dont teach that you have to be water baptized to be born again, as that is the MaryCult Lie.

Disobedience to what Jesus says is rejecting Him.

Then stop doing it.

Right and if they quit doing righteousness then they are no longer righteous

Listen...

Have you ever confessed a sin?
Sure you have........so, when you were doing that sin, you had "quit doing righteousness".....so, you just defined yourself as "no longer righteous".

Try this instead.
Trust that God has provided every Christian with "Christ's Righteousness"......that is "the Gift of Righteousness" as that is the only way you'll have any righteousness.
Have that FAITH.

No need for those that do not believe to be baptized since they are already damned so your point is moot according to Jesus' instructions on being baptized

Your verse is explaining that its Faith (Believing) that God accepts........not water.
No one goes to Hell for not being water baptized, and millions and million s of water baptized people have gone to Hell.
Thousands went to Hell today, who were water baptized...and thought , believed, they were a Christian.
They were not., but their CULT told them, that they were, A Chrisitan.
Water CULTS will lie to you, as that is why they exist.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Little one, i was water baptized.

Diaper boy, glad to hear it.

So, dont teach that you have to be water baptized to be born again, as that is the MaryCult Lie.

So you admit that you claim Jesus lied about this then, right?

Then stop doing it.

I'm not the one walking in disobedience

Try this instead.
Trust that God has provided every Christian with "Christ's Righteousness"......that is "the Gift of Righteousness" as that is the only way you'll have any righteousness.
Have that FAITH.

OK so your claim is we can live in sin and still be righteous and we can ignore what God says about the need to confess our sin if we did sin. Got it.

Your verse is explaining that its Faith that God accepts........not water.

That's where you do err, I did not write the Bible and the verses I;m sharing are not mine.

They came from the Word of the Lord!

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 2:37.38
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Colossians 2:11-13
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

I'm not saying one does not first repent, believe, and confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior. This is of course the first thing one does for initial salvation. Without doing this, one can get dunked in the water all they want and that does not make them saved.

After initial salvation, the Lord instructs us to be baptized which is a public demonstration and public acknowledgement before others that we are dead with Him and are raised up together unto new life.... it is making a covenant with the Lord when we are baptized, making a commitment, making a promise to turn from our old life unto living for Him.

This process is the starting point for us to start walking in newness of life, having a clean conscience toward God which is what actually saves us. Being dunked in water itself is not the moment one becomes born again as we should already be born again before getting baptized.

As mentioned in 1 Peter 3:21, having a clean conscience toward God having accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, having confessed out sins before the Lord is what saves us.

Now... as we see the thief on the Cross next to Jesus acknowledge the Lord as His Savior (Luke 23:39-43)... and Jesus told this man that he was going to paradise, if one finds themselves in a situation where it's not possible to get water baptized, then they will still be saved if they have truly been born again.

Apart from this, we are required to be baptized because God's tells us to be water baptized in His Word.

Those having opportunity to be baptized and choose to disobey God's Word are disobeying the Gospel and the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience (knowingly disobeying the Lord is an evil desire, see Colossians 3:5,6).

Through the faith of the operation of God (Colossians 2:12) through water baptism are we raised up in newness of life (Romans 6:4) to have a clean conscience towards the Lord to walk with Him and we will be saved IF we endure until the end of our life abiding IN Christ.

In conclusion, if one has opportunity to be baptized and chooses to ignore and disobey Mark 16:16, Acts 2:37.38, 1 Peter 3:21, Colossians 2:11-13, and Romans 6:4...then the after life is not going to be as they think.

But you do you! If you want to teach others to be disobedient then that's what you'll continue to do. Now you have been informed.

 

[Josho]

Of course they believe it.
A JW is taught to beleive what the JW's Teach.
Same with a Mormon.
Same with a Catholic.
Same with a Muslim.
Same with a Calvinist.

See, when you are deceived....... you dont know it.......or you would not be decieved.

So, the way you find out if someone has some deception.....or is fully deceived.......is to find out what they believe about The Cross of Christ.
As if you get that wrong....then everything is wrong, as Christianity, is built on The Cross of Christ.

See, if a denomination has a false Gospel.......then its going to disagree with The Cross of Christ as being the ONLY Way to God

Not Water.
Not Works.
Not trying to be like Jesus.
Not Praying to Mary for Salvation.
Not trying to "do Righteousness".

A.) Christian deception is always rooted in a false GOSPEL..........and that is why it tries to change how God saves you, from "Jesus only".........into....>>"through Mary".. or "by Water".. or "doing righteousness"... or "add the commandments".. or anything that is being added To The Cross.........is a FALSE Gospel. = Galatians 1:8

Deceived People........."christans"........95% .. do not believe that Jesus keeps them saved, unless they earn it somehow.
So, that is broken faith, and that is what a False Gospel does to you... Reader

Where JWs and Mormons differ to other Christian denominations is they don't believe in the trinity. And Islam is just straight up another religion, so it's not even relevant.

 

[Behold]

Where JWs and Mormons differ to other Christian denominations is they don't believe in the trinity. And Islam is just straight up another religion, so it's not even relevant.

JW's do not believe you must be born again.

So, if. you are not born again before you die, you will not go to Heaven.

Now, come and defend that JW CULT Doctrine, as im sure you'll feel the need. @Josho ...

Read this verse first...and then proceed.

Jesus said...."you must be Born again".

 

[Josho]

JW's do not believe you must be born again.

So, if. you are not born again before you die, you will not go to Heaven.

Now, come and defend that JW CULT Doctrine, as im sure you'll feel the need. @Josho ...

Read this verse first...and then proceed.

Jesus said...."you must be Born again".

No I honestly don't, they have what I would consider some dangerous flaws with their doctrine, but you don't need be so aggressive against them either.

Now can we please get this thread back onto topic, it's about Calvinism.

 

[Behold]

No I honestly don't, they have what I would consider some dangerous flaws with their doctrine, but you don't need be so aggressive against them either.

Thank you for your opinion.

And FYI you dont need to continue to prove you are on the Fourm to support and defend every known Cult denomination.
A "staff member" should not be that one, on this Forum.
Wouldn't you agree?
That's just common sense.

 

[Episkopos]

No I honestly don't, they have what I would consider some dangerous flaws with their doctrine, but you don't need be so aggressive against them either.

Now can we please get this thread back onto topic, it's about Calvinism.

Agreed. It's better to rightly divide things than to just throw things out...without consideration. I think people get too partisan about things...throwing out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak.

I also see Calvinism as taking things to extreme...leaving crucial aspects out..like free will and the need to come before God. Jesus healed 10 lepers but only one came back to Him. Jesus asked..I healed ten, where are the other nine?