Robots and Will Worshipers
- Thread starter Rudometkin
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Indeed interesting. These are some that come to my mind.
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? (Romans 9:20-21)
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. (Proverbs 16:4)
@Rudometkin The sovereignty of God is so humbling, but also so settling and reassuring to the true believer...
I believe man makes choices. But I believe it's very clear that God causes man to make choices.
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: (Isaiah 46:10)
Declaring the end from the beginning...
@Rudometkin Another good verse there; I also think Philippians 2.13 is relevant: '...it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure...'.
Great verse Farouk!
I agree. If I believed I was in control of my own destiny, I believe I would be dead in my sins having never come to God. Then, some people who are in favor of free will believe you can lose your salvation. If I could lose my salvation, I believe I would. I'm a terrible sinner who was drawn to Christ.
But it seems people just need to be in control of their destiny. They just won't submit to God's Sovereignty.
@Rudometkin
Great post!
It's all of Him, right?
"When this passing world is done
When has sunk yon glaring sun
When I stand with Christ on high
Looking o'er life's history
Then Lord shall I fully know
Not till then how much I owe
When I stand before the throne
Dressed in beauty not my own
When I see thee as thou are
Love thee with unsinning heart
Then Lord shall I fully know
Not till then how much I owe
When the praise of heaven I hear
Loud as thunders to the ear
Loud as many waters noise
Sweets as harps melodious voice
Then Lord shall I fully know
Not till then how much I owe
E'en on earth as through a glass
Darkly let thy glory pass
Make forgiveness feel so sweet
Make thy Spirit's help so meet
E'en on earth Lord make me know
Something of how much I owe."
Robert Murray M'Cheyne
Interesting thought. I do know that they are created by God for specific purposes (Proverbs 16:4), having their destinies decided before having been born (so Salvation is not up to men, but of the Lord, Psalm 3:8). So it cannot be that God decides man's destiny based on what men become, but rather men are made according to what God decided for them.
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth) (Romans 9:11)
Are you actually trying to bring saint Peter into this? Lol
Truman, meet Truwoman! I thought I was the only one who did those kind of things! Lol
Try reading Jeremiah 18, the potter and clay chapter.
There’s no individual persons on the potters wheel - it’s the nation of Israel - God remolded them because of their continued sin and disobedience.
The Potter and the Clay.
Jer 18:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
Jer 18:2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
Jer 18:3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Jer 18:5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
Jer 18:6 O house of ISRAEL , cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
Israel’s continual sins caused God to reshape Israel into another vessel, as the next verse is an example of that:
Israel is on the potters wheel, being reformed into a different vessel, due to their sin and rebellion.
2Ti 2:20 Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable.
2Ti 2:21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.
It’s what we do that determines if we become vessels of honor or dishonor.
I know the fact that it is our will that’s involved there, is very inconvenient to Calvinism and to the philosophy of fatalistic determinism known as reformed doctrine.
Last edited:
No.
As I told Renniks:
As I told Taken,
Consider Renniks' words.
Last edited:
Well…in a sense I can agree God causes men to make choices…
I would not have ever begun learning the obedience of trust if He had not opened my eyes to see that He existed. I would have gone on until death not believing He even existed. But when He healed my blindness, I could then make choices to go with trust or go with worry. I can now make those choices every day. Sometimes I slip in trust.
@Rudometkin Ephesians 1 also has a very strong sense of the sovereignty of God in His gracious purposes in Christ.
@Rudometkin PS: In the same vein, John chapter 6 has a strong sense of both the sovereignty of God and human responsibility.
Really? For sure?
It's unfortunate you see my intentions for this thread as poor. Is there a reason you see it that way?
@Rudometkin A Biblical discussion of the sovereignty of God can be very wholesome and timely...
Prepare to meet a "sadistic monster".
Even you must believe God is the ultimate cause of all things. As, if He never created, nothing would have happened. Why don't you be consistent with your objections against God, and claim that Him creating people while knowing sin would occur, makes him a sadistic monster?
I don't call God the Father of lies, as He doesn't lie. For you, if God causes Satan to lie and calls Satan the father of lies, you are openly in disagreement with God. This shows your lack of reverence for Him.
He is the Righteous author of sin. So what? It is Good for him to cause anything for His Good purpose. He does what He wants. Good is defined by what He does.
You think God can do something to make Him a sinner. This is just silly, and shows your lack of reverence for Him. Who do you think holds God accountable? You seem to be trying to hold Him accountable.
Similar threads
