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Roman Catholicism

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by CoreIssue, Apr 5, 2019.

  1. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    One mystery that I can think of is that humans, under the inspiration of demons, do evil but somehow that always seems to accomplish the purposes of God, in spite of everything Satan tries in order to defeat God.
     
  2. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Is that what you got from my post - that being born again is a feeling?
     
  3. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    Yes--I think that the emotional reaction to being born again is just that, a reaction to the inner certainty of God's Spirit having cleansed our souls and given a new birth to our spirits. Kind of like soap cleaning a garment. We are missing the point if focusing on the suds of emotion rather than the cleansed spiritual garment that we will wear in eternity.
     
  4. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Seems to me that swinging from heart (focus on emotions) to mind (reliance on thought, doctrine, theology) to navigate our relationship with God can be moving from one extreme to another. Emotions are not bad - they are apart of us and a necessary part of healthy relationships.

    I tend to believe that Mind + Heart + Prayer determines a balanced Will. Here is an example: when I am visited by elders from the LDS church, I am often asked if I have read the Book of Mormon, after responding ‘yes’ (although, it has been about twenty years, at this point), they usually become interested to know how I ‘felt’ about it. It is an interesting question to ask because it seems irrelevant....after all, why does it matter how I might feel about information in a book? Wouldn’t it be more important to engage in a dialogue regarding the book’s historical accuracy or a comparison it may or may not have with scripture? No. In every case, the elders are primarily interested in whether or not, I received a ‘burning in the bosom’; did I, in fact, receive a feeling from God that the book was true, regardless of whether the the book was indeed, true!

    My response to their inquiry is always, “yes. I did receive a burning in the bosom that the Book of Mormon is true, unfortunately, my mind was not in agreement with my heart. At a young age, I made a decision with myself that my mind and heart had to be in agreement before I allowed my will to act”. Later, after I met Christ, prayer was included in my decision making process.

    My point is, simply replacing emotion with thought is not a safeguard against heresy or living out a unbalanced relationship with Christ. In fact, it opens up new pitfalls like legalism and an over reliance on doctrine at the expense of loving others.
     
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  5. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    You need to pay attention. I have never said everyone in the Roman Church is saved. I have never said all your Roman family were saved. I said there are believers in the Roman church. And I have said the Roman church is Christian.

    Well, you should wonder about it. Paul did count the Galatians as believers even though others came preaching a false gospel. Fancy that. There are believers in the Galatian church.

    Elijah once thought he was the only believer left. Yet the Lord said there were 7000 he was not even aware of who had not bowed the knee to Baal. (1 Kings 19:18)

    Stranger
     
  6. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    RCs can be believers in spite of their church but this should not be so--would you agree? I agree that the gospel is there in the massive amounts of verbiage that the RCC spouts, but there is so much teaching that is frankly ridiculous or even un-biblical that it is no wonder that many RCs are confused. But the same could be said for much teaching in liberal Protestant churches (the goddess Sophia--really!!?!!) . The only difference is that conservative Protestants have the Bible to turn to and RCs are often discouraged from reading the Bible.
     
  7. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    I am reading the book of Hebrews, right now. My priest encourages us to read the Bible.
     
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  8. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    You have a good priest then, one who sees the importance of scripture :)
     
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  9. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    I don't wonder because of reasons I stated in my previous post. You fancy yourself clever but you missed the point, and you read into my post what wasn't there. I'm done with this little chat.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  10. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    "I made a decision with myself that my mind and heart had to be in agreement before I allowed my will to act”

    Very wise decision, Grasshopper! Lol.
    Feelings are fickle, go with what you know! ♥
     
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  11. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    And then you go and add a heart at the end, instead of a brain!:rolleyes:
     
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  12. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Certainly it should not be so. But it always will be in our fallen world. As soon as a body of believers begins, immediately satan is busy doing what he can to stop it or dilute it however he can. The Roman Church has been around the longest so has fared the worst. But, as you pointed out, the Protestant churches are now becoming the same.

    And has it not always been the same with Israel. They do well for a while, but then fall away again. It just seems to be a common trait for the believers. I remember when the good King Josiah wanted to repair the temple that was in disarray and lo and behold they found the Scriptures. And when it was shown him, he couldn't believe the condition Israel had fallen which was now revealed in the Scriptures. (2 Kings 22)

    And of course the Roman churches uses a different Bible than Protestants which adds to the confusion. But, then some of these modern day translations are vastly different than the KJV.

    I have come to the place to recognize more the miraculous nature of the salvation of a soul. For only the Spirit of God can get one saved through the quagmire the Church is in. And if He can save them in a Baptist, or Methodist, or Presbyterian church, He can do the same in a Roman Church.

    Stranger
     
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  13. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    Some education and discernment needed and is sorely lacking. Thinking themselves wise , they became fools....
    The Bible says faith comes by hearing the gospel and the hearing of a false gospel does Not save. Not being able to differentiate the differences between the rc false heresies & teachings compared to denominations shows willful blindness. This is the type of complacent blindness that will encourage the ecumenical uniting with the Rcc , their domination and the further corruption of the Christian churches.
     
  14. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I often think of the churches of "Christendom" as being ships/boats in a marina. The Roman church is a very barnacle-encrusted old ship whose captain and crew are miscreants who have thrown their navigation equipment overboard. The mainline Protestant churches are newer ships but have become barnacle-encrusted, as well as being out of diesel fuel. They are mostly dead in the water. The prosperity gospel and mega churches are cheaply-built wooden boats that are taking on water. And the conservative evangelical churches are seaworthy yachts but headed for the shoals, because their captains and navigators are asleep at the controls (while most of their passengers are on-board for a good time and are drunk). A few churches are nice little fishing boats but the owners are nursing home residents. In addition, the marina is often harassed by "birds of the air".

    Yes--Satan has always been a very wily devil. He well-understands human weaknesses.

    I quite like the NLT because the narrative stream flows well and it is plain language--great for kids. I have checked it against the New American Standard (widely regarded as the best Greek to English translation for the New Testament) and have not found it to be out-of-kilter. I would definitely stay away from Eugene Peterson's The Message as I believe it does serious violence to the meaning of many passages.

    I would agree somewhat except that Protestant churches have been (at least in the past) more geared to salvation than the Roman church has been for a long time. There are individual parish priests who are concerned with that but the hierarchy mostly could care less about their parishioners and care much much more about wielding power and wealth.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
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  15. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    The only problem is that, if he is using the "official" RC interpretations for many passages, it is likely to just end up confusing his parishioners. :(
     
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  16. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    I once had a 'picture' of the church as a ship and was shown that in most cases it is the hands of people - the vicars, priests, pastors etc - that are on the ship's wheel instead of the hand of God.
     
  17. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, yes. But it has always been so for the most part. In the letters to the Seven Churches of Revelation you can see, early on, that developing scenario. I suspect that is why the refrain, "Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches" is given over and over (and promptly ignored by the churches--especially the RCC--most RC churches don't even teach the Book of Revelation :eek:).
     
  18. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Do you think that there are so many out of fellowship Christians at present because they can sense that the church leaders are taking the steering away from God?
     
  19. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Fear and faith are incompatible - makes me wonder why there is so much fatalism within Christians today
     
  20. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Because there is steeply declining interest in Christianity in the Western nations, it seems that many "pastors" and "elders" have bumped Jesus aside and are erratically steering first here, then there in the hope of being more "relevant" to the lost (who aren't, for the most part, interested anyway). In the process, they have lost many of their passengers overboard. :(
     
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