Roman Catholicism

[Stranger]

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant. I think there are likely many Christians in the pews of RCCs--I have Catholic cousins who believe standard Christian doctrine. I just have a hard time thinking that there are a lot of Christians among those high up in the ranks of leadership. With all the pedophilia and its subsequent cover-up among priests and the hierarchy (which I believe is straight out of the pit of hell), the blasphemy ("the Pope is God on earth"--really!!?!!), and the rank heresy offered up by the current Pope, I am pretty doubtful that many in the hierarchy are Christians.

You may be right. I'm sure there are many who are not. But I believe there are those who are. You find this common among the people of God. Even in Jesus day, the Pharisees were always against Him. Yet, there was a Nicodemus. And there were Pharisees who believed. Judaism was a waste, yet there were still believers within Judaism.

Though what God had started had been perverted and distorted, it was still structured around God. And thus there were people of God within it. Luther was a priest also, wasn't he?

Stranger

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

What about "the cult of Mary"? That was literally a cult, as even the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia states.

What is this New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia ?

I know that many go way to far with the Mary worship bit for sure as it comes across as the Church of Mary, one could be like that of a cult for sure.

But I do come across Christians who are hostile to any talk of Mary or get a lot wrong as to such and will not listen at all or can not fathom the spiritual aspect.
I thought that Mary was full of the Holy Spirit and blessed, as if she rejected the Angel we would not of got Jesus Christ for a start.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

You may be right. I'm sure there are many who are not. But I believe there are those who are. You find this common among the people of God. Even in Jesus day, the Pharisees were always against Him. Yet, there was a Nicodemus. And there were Pharisees who believed. Judaism was a waste, yet there were still believers within Judaism.

Though what God had started had been perverted and distorted, it was still structured around God. And thus there were people of God within it. Luther was a priest also, wasn't he?

Stranger

Yes--Luther was a priest and theologian but he had some pretty odd ideas on occasion--probably gathered from at least some of his training. I agree that some priests are likely saved (I read a book by Fr. John Powell and he certainly seemed saved). But, I think many, many of the RCC clergy are "blind guides" just like the Pharisees. Even Nicodemus was scolded by Jesus, "You are a teacher of Israel and you don't know this?" I think Nicodemus' encounter with Jesus likely helped him to see many things--just as did Paul's encounter with our risen Lord on the Road to Damascus.

 

[Enoch111]

What is this New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia ?

It covers every Catholic teaching in detail. You can access it online.

 

[tzcho2]

Yes--Luther was a priest and theologian but he had some pretty odd ideas on occasion--probably gathered from at least some of his training. I agree that some priests are likely saved (I read a book by Fr. John Powell and he certainly seemed saved). But, I think many, many of the RCC clergy are "blind guides" just like the Pharisees. Even Nicodemus was scolded by Jesus, "You are a teacher of Israel and you don't know this?" I think Nicodemus' encounter with Jesus likely helped him to see many things--just as did Paul's encounter with our risen Lord on the Road to Damascus.

Ravi Zacharias said, its possible to be a good Christian and a bad Catholic. Lol

 

[BreadOfLife]

You seem to have difficulty with honesty. You BreadOfLife are constantly insulting others and calling people liars or implying that they are Lying -same thing. Just on this one thread alone there are 4 posts by you doing what you say you NEVER do --6 x calling others liars, it's your favorite thing to do.

#24 BreadOfLife
"Actually - that's a LIE.
I ALWAYS explain the Catholic position on EVERY topic I debate.

I make sure that anti-Catholics like YOU get the full explanation so you won't have an excuse to say the same stupid thing next time around . ." .

#53 BreadOfLife
"No - she simply doesn't LIE like YOU do.

She doesn't have to sit at her computer and regurgitate the same tired, old garbage that YOU do because she has true charity in her heart - and YOU apparently don't."

#64 BreadOfLife
"Nope - I NEVER send anybody to a Catholic site to watch videos.
I ALWAYS articulate my point in my post.
CoreIssue said: ↑
A non-Catholic goes on a Catholic site and disagrees and they are not there very long. Banned.
No - most Catholic site that I know if will let ANYBODY stay as long as they don't attack and lie as YOU do.
BreadOfLife said:
"You wanna do that - go over to CARM.org.
They have PLENTY of liars there - and you'd be MORE than welcome . . ."

#97 BreadOfLife
"Actually - YOU just lied because I've NEVER called anybody a "Liar" on this forum.
I simply point out to them when they DO lie.

If you tell your friend that maybe they should go on a diet - did you actually call them a
"Big Fat Pig" - or did you simply point out that they needed to lose some weight??

Try to be honest for a change . . "

I see that you were completely UNABLE to find even ONE post where I called somebody a "Liar".
I simply point out when somebody lies - but I never call them "Liars".

If you find my posts "insulting" or "harsh" - then DON'T LIE.
I warned you when you came to this forum that I would treat you just fine as long as you followed the ONE simple rule:
"Don't make up lies about the Catholic Church or I WILL expose you."

You couldn't even do that . . .

 

[brakelite]

I can't imagine God saying at the judgement, "you lied, you stole, you killed, but because you are not a liar or thief or murderer therefore you aren't a sinner...welcome home."
But I can imagine a priest welcoming pagans into the church on that basis...you are free to continue your pagan practices and I promise I will not condemn you as a pagan...I will call you Catholic instead.

 

[Stranger]

Yes--Luther was a priest and theologian but he had some pretty odd ideas on occasion--probably gathered from at least some of his training. I agree that some priests are likely saved (I read a book by Fr. John Powell and he certainly seemed saved). But, I think many, many of the RCC clergy are "blind guides" just like the Pharisees. Even Nicodemus was scolded by Jesus, "You are a teacher of Israel and you don't know this?" I think Nicodemus' encounter with Jesus likely helped him to see many things--just as did Paul's encounter with our risen Lord on the Road to Damascus.

Yes, of course Nicodemus encounter with Jesus helped him. But, my point was that he was a believer in God and so was receptive to Jesus Christ even though he was a Pharisee. The same is true with others. (Acts 15:5)

The difficulty many have in viewing the Roman Church as Christian, is also now present in the Protestant Church. Though it is not in the same form as the sacerdotal system that runs the Roman Church, it is real nonetheless.

I was awakened to this quite a few years ago. I had been a Christian maybe 8 to 10 years. Worked construction then and was sent to a new addition of an existing church. It was a church of the Protestant faith. The associate pastor was charged by the church in overseeing the daily progress. So he would drop by on a regular basis. His manner of talk and joking with other workers seemed very worldly to me, plus he would light up a cigarette at times. But I didn't say anything. I never told him I was a Christian.

One day I got into a discussion with him while I was working. I asked about how many years he had to go to school to be in the ministry etc. etc. Then I asked him, what made you decide to get into the ministry. He said, "the pay is great and you don't do anything". What a disappointment that was. What a disservice to the people of God that were in that church. He was not trying to serve Jesus Christ. Just himself.

I will argue against what I believe is wrong in the Roman Church. As I do what is wrong in the Protestant Church. But, as I said earlier, I am not prepared to call the Roman Church a cult. It is Christian in it's origin, and there are many believers there.

Stranger

 

[gadar perets]

Prayers for the physically dead are directed at the fate of their living souls.
The Church simply didn't think anybody was that stupid to have to have it explained to them . . .

Interesting. In your posts following this one you defend yourself against calling people "liars", but here you call me "stupid". I am not stupid. Your false teaching is stupid.

In 2 Macc. 42-46, we see that Judas Maccabeus prays for the men of his army, killed in battle. Verse 44 says, “… for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.”

It is obvious that Judas M. believed in the resurrection of the dead, not the release of souls in purgatory. He expected the dead "to rise again" out of their graves or out of their dead state. If he wanted to pray for "living souls" in the fictitious purgatory, it would read, "it would have been useless and foolish to pray for those living souls" or "those souls in purgatory" or something similar.

Here is an excerpt from a Catholic priest on avoiding purgatory. Full article here. (Global Catholic Network)

INDULGENCES AND PURGATORY

[The grants of indulgences were changed in 1968. See the Enchiridion of
Indulgences 1968]

God in His infinite mercy and compassion offers us a most wonderful and
easy means for lessening or cancelling our Purgatory.

Fully aware of our weakness, and knowing, too, how fearful many are of
penance, He opens wide the treasury of His Goodness and offers us most
abundant Indulgences in exchange for some small act of devotion.

For one recitation of short ejaculatory prayers, He grants 100 or 300 or
more days Indulgence. These we may say hundreds of times in the day. Those
who say the little ejaculation: "Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place my trust in
Thee" one hundred times a day gain 30,000 days Indulgence. Those who say it
1,000 times, as many do, gain 300,000 days Indulgence each day!

Nothing can be easier than to acquire the habit of saying this little
prayer all day long, countless times each day.

Then, for each Hail Mary of the Rosary, one gains more than 2,000 days
Indulgence!

Besides an immense number of Partial Indulgences, there are very many
Plenary (full, complete) Indulgences which may be gained during life and at
the hour of death.

These are specially given by the Church to enable us to avoid Purgatory.

These Indulgences can be applied to our own souls, and we shall thus
directly make satisfaction for our sins. Or, we may apply them to the souls
in Purgatory, who will see to it that we do not lose by our generosity.
​

It is so obvious that this is a false teaching that puts Catholics in bondage to USELESS repetitive prayers.

Matthew 6:7 But when you pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
​

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Yes, of course Nicodemus encounter with Jesus helped him. But, my point was that he was a believer in God and so was receptive to Jesus Christ even though he was a Pharisee. The same is true with others. (Acts 15:5)

The difficulty many have in viewing the Roman Church as Christian, is also now present in the Protestant Church. Though it is not in the same form as the sacerdotal system that runs the Roman Church, it is real nonetheless.

I was awakened to this quite a few years ago. I had been a Christian maybe 8 to 10 years. Worked construction then and was sent to a new addition of an existing church. It was a church of the Protestant faith. The associate pastor was charged by the church in overseeing the daily progress. So he would drop by on a regular basis. His manner of talk and joking with other workers seemed very worldly to me, plus he would light up a cigarette at times. But I didn't say anything. I never told him I was a Christian.

One day I got into a discussion with him while I was working. I asked about how many years he had to go to school to be in the ministry etc. etc. Then I asked him, what made you decide to get into the ministry. He said, "the pay is great and you don't do anything". What a disappointment that was. What a disservice to the people of God that were in that church. He was not trying to serve Jesus Christ. Just himself.

I will argue against what I believe is wrong in the Roman Church. As I do what is wrong in the Protestant Church. But, as I said earlier, I am not prepared to call the Roman Church a cult. It is Christian in it's origin, and there are many believers there.

Stranger

Yes--I wouldn't be prepared to call it a cult either. It has some cultish characteristics but then, so do some Protestant churches--especially some of the mega churches formed around a charismatic pastor. I think the biggest danger is the emphasis on learning Catholic dogma in preference to reading and studying the word of God. But that depends on the priest leading the parish. Some priests are born again and actively leading their parishioners in reading and studying the word over learning Catholic dogma. Others are not.

 

[tzcho2]

Yes--I wouldn't be prepared to call it a cult either. It has some cultish characteristics but then, so do some Protestant churches--especially some of the mega churches formed around a charismatic pastor. I think the biggest danger is the emphasis on learning Catholic dogma in preference to reading and studying the word of God. But that depends on the priest leading the parish. Some priests are born again and actively leading their parishioners in reading and studying the word over learning Catholic dogma. Others are not.

I would be prepared , the RCC has got all the qualities of a cult. It doesn't mean by far that it is the only false church/ or cult masquerading as Christian, but it is the most powerful with the most devotees.
cult
[kuhlt]
|
noun
. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body ofadmirers:the physical fitness cult.
. the object of such devotion.
. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

 

[tzcho2]

Ravi Zacharias said, its possible to be a good Christian and a bad Catholic. Lol

To be this though, would require not attending masses, not following any of the teachings by priests, pope, nor traditions nor believing the extra biblical religious dogma. It becomes too uncomfortable to sit listening to false teachings when it conflicts with the word of God, this has been my own experience , anyway, so I think those that get saved who are Catholics become ex:catholics, find other denominations eventually and because we are meant to assemble together for Bible study & worship.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Interesting. In your posts following this one you defend yourself against calling people "liars", but here you call me "stupid". I am not stupid. Your false teaching is stupid.

And there you go again with your lies.

I never called you "Stupid".
I said that the Church probably didn't think anybody was so stupid that they had to have to explain that "dead" meant physically dead. MOST people recognize this.

Try being honest for a change.

It is obvious that Judas M. believed in the resurrection of the dead, not the release of souls in purgatory. He expected the dead "to rise again" out of their graves or out of their dead state. If he wanted to pray for "living souls" in the fictitious purgatory, it would read, "it would have been useless and foolish to pray for those living souls" or "those souls in purgatory" or something similar.

Here is an excerpt from a Catholic priest on avoiding purgatory. Full article here. (Global Catholic Network)

INDULGENCES AND PURGATORY

[The grants of indulgences were changed in 1968. See the Enchiridion of
Indulgences 1968]

God in His infinite mercy and compassion offers us a most wonderful and
easy means for lessening or cancelling our Purgatory.

Fully aware of our weakness, and knowing, too, how fearful many are of
penance, He opens wide the treasury of His Goodness and offers us most
abundant Indulgences in exchange for some small act of devotion.

For one recitation of short ejaculatory prayers, He grants 100 or 300 or
more days Indulgence. These we may say hundreds of times in the day. Those
who say the little ejaculation: "Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place my trust in
Thee" one hundred times a day gain 30,000 days Indulgence. Those who say it
1,000 times, as many do, gain 300,000 days Indulgence each day!

Nothing can be easier than to acquire the habit of saying this little
prayer all day long, countless times each day.

Then, for each Hail Mary of the Rosary, one gains more than 2,000 days
Indulgence!

Besides an immense number of Partial Indulgences, there are very many
Plenary (full, complete) Indulgences which may be gained during life and at
the hour of death.

These are specially given by the Church to enable us to avoid Purgatory.

These Indulgences can be applied to our own souls, and we shall thus
directly make satisfaction for our sins. Or, we may apply them to the souls
in Purgatory, who will see to it that we do not lose by our generosity.
​

It is so obvious that this is a false teaching that puts Catholics in bondage to USELESS repetitive prayers.

Matthew 6:7 But when you pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.​

​

Judah Maccabees prayed for the dead - PERIOD.
This is something that is abhorrent to you anti-Catholics because you have no faith in God's mercy.

If he prayed for his men AFTER they were killed - then he was praying for some mercy for them in the afterlife. This is what the Final Purification of the Elect (Purgatory) is ALL about . . .

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I would be prepared , the RCC has got all the qualities of a cult. It doesn't mean by far that it is the only false church/ or cult masquerading as Christian, but it is the most powerful with the most devotees.
cult
[kuhlt]
|
noun
. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body ofadmirers:the physical fitness cult.
. the object of such devotion.
. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

Here's the thing, though. The RCC is so large and diverse that it resists becoming a real cult.

 

[tzcho2]

Here's the thing, though. The RCC is so large and diverse that it resists becoming a real cult.

Cult-ish perhaps is more apt.

 

[tzcho2]

What is this New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia ?

I know that many go way to far with the Mary worship bit for sure as it comes across as the Church of Mary, one could be like that of a cult for sure.

But I do come across Christians who are hostile to any talk of Mary or get a lot wrong as to such and will not listen at all or can not fathom the spiritual aspect.
I thought that Mary was full of the Holy Spirit and blessed, as if she rejected the Angel we would not of got Jesus Christ for a start.

Jesus human mother Mary needed a Saviour the same as us. The angel did not say she was full of the Holy Spirit.

 

[CoreIssue]

Here's the thing, though. The RCC is so large and diverse that it resists becoming a real cult.

It resists being called a cult but has been for centuries.

 

[CoreIssue]

Jesus human mother Mary needed a Saviour the same as us. The angel did not say she was full of the Holy Spirit.

Mary is not the mother of God. God has no mother or father.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

To be this though, would require not attending masses, not following any of the teachings by priests, pope, nor traditions nor believing the extra biblical religious dogma. It becomes too uncomfortable to sit listening to false teachings when it conflicts with the word of God, this has been my own experience , anyway, so I think those that get saved who are Catholics become ex:catholics, find other denominations eventually and because we are meant to assemble together for Bible study & worship.

And after all that, an RC might figure that there is no point in staying a Catholic. I think that is usually what happens.

 

[tzcho2]

And there you go again with your lies.
I never called you "Stupid".
I said that the Church probably didn't think anybody was so stupid that they had to have to explain that "dead" meant physically dead. MOST people recognize this.
Try being honest for a change.

Judah Maccabees prayed for the dead - PERIOD.​

This is something that is abhorrent to you anti-Catholics because you have no faith in God's mercy.

If he prayed for his men AFTER they were killed - then he was praying for some mercy for them in the afterlife. This is what the Final Purification of the Elect (Purgatory) is ALL about . . .

What is abhorrent is tricking 1 billion people into believing the lie about the false doctrine teaching of Purgatory. They are told they don't need to just rely on the saving grace by faith in our Lord & Savior Jesus , because they are told they have this safety net that the RCC has implemented to pay them into heaven. This false purgatory teaching has has nothing to do with mercy or faith --it shows Faith only in the false teachings of the RCC that invented the doctrine of Purgatory in the first place.
The doctrine of Purgatory contradicts the Bible teachings & opposes the gospel of Jesus Christ finished work on Calvary as paying the penalty for sins once for all for those who believe by putting their Faith in Jesus alone.
The false doctrine of purgatory has made the RCC very wealthy by charging for "indulgencies" & masses to pay the ransom for people supposedly "held in purgatory" .
Bible reading Christians know there is no doctrine of Purgatory taught anywhere by the Apostles.
Hebrews 9:27 "27 Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment. " There is no between place where people are purified of their sins. The RCC is always at odds with the Gospel. It's Popes & Counsels have boldly without conscience added to the Bible all over the place. The Catholic church as a religious institution is absolutely not recognizable as Christian- in it's traditions, doctrines,teachings, beliefs or practices & it holds itself equal to God's word in authority and power.