Romans 7: Sin and the Christian

[Ritajanice]

Control by the Spirit

(Galatians 5:16-26)



9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

I also get confused regarding this nature business...we have received the new nature, isn’t our old nature buried in Christ?

Romans 6:6​

“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

I love learning about the Lord and getting to know him more and more...we are forever learning.

 

[Peterlag]

Romans 7:14-25 KJV
14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15) For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

He says it twice - It is no more I, but sin that lives in me.

What did he mean? "no more I", this signifies that it was him, and now it's not. What changed? And what was the change?

Can you have a correct understanding of this passage if you cannot explain this part?

Much love!

Romans tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

 

[marks]

Romans tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

Did you have an answer to the question I've asked?

I've centered in on a part that I think is largely not understood.

Much love!

 

[Peterlag]

Did you have an answer to the question I've asked?

I've centered in on a part that I think is largely not understood.

Much love!

He says it twice - It is no more I, but sin that lives in me.

In Romans 7 Paul is talking about a sin nature that he had that pretty much runs his life. The Jewish people tried to control it with a gazillion Laws and they could not.

What did he mean? "no more I", this signifies that it was him, and now it's not. What changed? And what was the change?

He thought it was him, but then realized it was not him, but the sin nature. Nothing changed. He is just saying whereas he thought it was him, but now he realizes it was the sin nature. This Romans 7 is where he's referring to himself before the spirit of of Christ got to him. Every single Christian except a very small group thinks Paul is referring to himself in Romans 7 as a Christian with the spirit of Christ.

Can you have a correct understanding of this passage if you cannot explain this part?
Much love!

 

[marks]

He thought it was him, but then realized it was not him,

The change was Paul's concept of himself?

He says, it is no more I, that is, "no longer I", as if there were one state of existance, and then that state of existance changed. This is the language I'm seeing, not that he has a new understanding.

Much love!

 

[Peterlag]

The change was Paul's concept of himself?

He says, it is no more I, that is, "no longer I", as if there were one state of existance, and then that state of existance changed. This is the language I'm seeing, not that he has a new understanding.

Much love!

I don't see that. I see he thought it was him and then realized it was the sin nature. He does kind of a similar thing here...

Paul in Galatians 2:20 says he's crucified in the flesh. But he still lives, but not him, but Christ. Then I gotta think he's referring to the Christ within. The new nature. And that is the spirit of Christ. Which we can shorten to spirit.

 

[amigo de christo]

The change was Paul's concept of himself?

He says, it is no more I, that is, "no longer I", as if there were one state of existance, and then that state of existance changed. This is the language I'm seeing, not that he has a new understanding.

Much love!

Well let me ask a question i hope helps .
If one being an unbeliever in Christ goes to bed with another mans wife , IS HE SINNING .
IF me being a believer in CHRIST goes to bed with another mans wife , AM I SINNING .
THE ANSWER TO BOTH IS YES . YES MARK . YES . YES mark , YES .
THE SIN that pual spoke of that sins , IS our flesh itself .
YOU See in both the believer and the unbeliever lies SIN in the flesh .
THE UNBELIEVER is slave to it . HIS MIND is operated by the flesh and under the power and influence of the flesh .
THE MIND of the believer NOW has the MIND OF CHRIST . THUS when His or her flesh
pops that SIN , that lustful thought into our mind , WELL , WE DONT HAVE TO OBEY IT , NOW DO WE .
YOU SEE the flesh , within the flesh is evil , its contrary . BUT THOSE IN CHRIST
no longer have That MIND persay . OH its still trapped in our flesh and yes it will still pop contrary thoughts into our head
BUT WHEN IT DOES , THAT IS THE SIN that sins , BUT IF WE OBEY IT , THEN WE DO SIN . BUT by grace
by the unctions of the SPIRIT we crucify it , dont allow it to lead us into sin , WELL WE WONT ACT OUT THE SIN , thus we WONT SIN .
HOPE THAT HELPS .

 

[Johann]

Romans 7:14-25 KJV
14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15) For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

He says it twice - It is no more I, but sin that lives in me.

What did he mean? "no more I", this signifies that it was him, and now it's not. What changed? And what was the change?

Can you have a correct understanding of this passage if you cannot explain this part?

Much love!

You might disagree-


1) "Now if I do that I would not," (ei de ho ou thelo ego touto poio) "But if I do what I wish not to do so badly," and he did - this is the very admission of weakness and imperfection that he is both confessing and affirming, as an actual Christian experience.

2) "It is no more I that do it," (ouketi ego katergazomai auto) "No more (is) it I that do it," the regenerated "I", the apostle "I", the servant, steward, and minister "I" of the new Spirit nature, Rom_8:11; Rom_8:14; Rom_8:16; 1Co_2:14-16; Col_3:1-3.

3) "But sin that dwelleth in me," (alla he oikousa en emoi hamartia)- "But the sin (nature) dwelling in me," in the flesh, old carnal-born nature in which I dwell and tabernacle until death, predetermined in and thru Adam, Rom_5:12; Rom_5:14; Rom_5:17; Heb_9:27. Paul, who held the Spirit of God in him, still recognized that he was in a sinful tabernacle, groaning for deliverance because of his implanted new nature, 2Co_5:1-11.

J.

 

[marks]

You might disagree-


1) "Now if I do that I would not," (ei de ho ou thelo ego touto poio) "But if I do what I wish not to do so badly," and he did - this is the very admission of weakness and imperfection that he is both confessing and affirming, as an actual Christian experience.

2) "It is no more I that do it," (ouketi ego katergazomai auto) "No more (is) it I that do it," the regenerated "I", the apostle "I", the servant, steward, and minister "I" of the new Spirit nature, Rom_8:11; Rom_8:14; Rom_8:16; 1Co_2:14-16; Col_3:1-3.

3) "But sin that dwelleth in me," (alla he oikousa en emoi hamartia)- "But the sin (nature) dwelling in me," in the flesh, old carnal-born nature in which I dwell and tabernacle until death, predetermined in and thru Adam, Rom_5:12; Rom_5:14; Rom_5:17; Heb_9:27. Paul, who held the Spirit of God in him, still recognized that he was in a sinful tabernacle, groaning for deliverance because of his implanted new nature, 2Co_5:1-11.

J.

I agree. This is how I understand the passage.

Much love!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Romans 7:14-25 KJV
14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15) For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

He says it twice - It is no more I, but sin that lives in me.

What did he mean? "no more I", this signifies that it was him, and now it's not. What changed? And what was the change?

Can you have a correct understanding of this passage if you cannot explain this part?

Much love!

Marks,
In order to argue his point, Paul adopts a second-person perspective to evaluate his own behavior. This is referred to as "second-person engagement." In this mode of thinking, the individual imagines themselves as an external observer, addressing their actions and thoughts as if they were directed toward another person. This perspective allows for a unique form of self-reflection and self-awareness.

One day, during a moment of self-reflection, Paul discovered something about himself that he never expected. He set his mind on the Tenth commandment and he discovered something about himself that was previously hidden and ignored. As he engaged with the Law more consciously, he noticed that he was unable to avoid coveting, and in fact, he saw himself coveting all the time.

In order to explain this, he adopts the first-person perspective to represent his conscious mind and his "inner man," treating his deeper inner man as the "second person." I, the one who agrees with the Law, noticed something new about himself. At the deepest core level of his being, Paul noticed a sin for which he couldn't explain in terms of rational thought.

Some Jews think of the Law as a set of instructions. In this context, Paul compares the Law, which is one set of instructions, with his members, which are another set of instructions. And these two sets of instructions are contrary to each other. He says, "I find another "law" within my members." And since Paul has sin at the core of his being, causing him to covet all the time, he says, "It is not I, but the sin within me."

In other words, it is no longer I, the one who loves the law, but the set of instructions that governs my members that leads me to sin. He isn't excusing his actions here. Rather, he argues for a deeper aspect of his humanity that guides his actions and is inaccessible to his mind or his will.

 

[Peterlag]

Marks,
In order to argue his point, Paul adopts a second-person perspective to evaluate his own behavior. This is referred to as "second-person engagement." In this mode of thinking, the individual imagines themselves as an external observer, addressing their actions and thoughts as if they were directed toward another person. This perspective allows for a unique form of self-reflection and self-awareness.

One day, during a moment of self-reflection, Paul discovered something about himself that he never expected. He set his mind on the Tenth commandment and he discovered something about himself that was previously hidden and ignored. As he engaged with the Law more consciously, he noticed that he was unable to avoid coveting, and in fact, he saw himself coveting all the time.

In order to explain this, he adopts the first-person perspective to represent his conscious mind and his "inner man," treating his deeper inner man as the "second person." I, the one who agrees with the Law, noticed something new about himself. At the deepest core level of his being, Paul noticed a sin for which he couldn't explain in terms of rational thought.

Some Jews think of the Law as a set of instructions. In this context, Paul compares the Law, which is one set of instructions, with his members, which are another set of instructions. And these two sets of instructions are contrary to each other. He says, "I find another "law" within my members." And since Paul has sin at the core of his being, causing him to covet all the time, he says, "It is not I, but the sin within me."

In other words, it is no longer I, the one who loves the law, but the set of instructions that governs my members that leads me to sin. He isn't excusing his actions here. Rather, he argues for a deeper aspect of his humanity that guides his actions and is inaccessible to his mind or his will.

And he Paul did all this self talk while he was thinking of himself under the Law before he received the spirit of Christ. Because after he became a Christian he had no sin within him that God could see...

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And then when Paul started walking in the spirit it became impossible for him to sin...

1 John 3:6I
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

To abide in him is to be in Christ. It's the same as walking by the spirit. This is a lost art because the Bible preachers teach their people to walk in the flesh. The Catholics were the first to teach we are sinners and that we should look at ourselves and our sin. Paul taught we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.

 

[marks]

In other words, it is no longer I, the one who loves the law,

So then when he said, it is no more I that do it, you are saying this signifies a new realization for Paul, of how he's always been?

Much love!

 

[CadyandZoe]

And he Paul did all this self talk while he was thinking of himself under the Law before he received the spirit of Christ. Because after he became a Christian he had no sin within him that God could see...

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And then when Paul started walking in the spirit it became impossible for him to sin...

1 John 3:6I
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

To abide in him is to be in Christ. It's the same as walking by the spirit. This is a lost art because the Bible preachers teach their people to walk in the flesh. The Catholics were the first to teach we are sinners and that we should look at ourselves and our sin. Paul taught we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.

So what? You don't seem to understand his point or are you going to say that it is okay for Christians to covet?

 

[CadyandZoe]

So then when he said, it is no more I that do it, you are saying this signifies a new realization for Paul, of how he's always been?

Much love!

Yes. He wants his readers to know that it was ALWAYS impossible to gain God's favor through obedience because it has always been true that the Law against coveting has always been impossible to keep. Our lust runs so deep that we have no access to it. We can't stop lusting.

We can avoid stealing our neighbor's stuff. We can avoid not sleeping with our neighbor's wife. We can avoid killing someone. But we can't avoid wanting our neighbor's stuff; we can't avoid wanting to sleep with our neighbor's wife; and we can't avoid hating someone enough to end their life.

Coveting convicts everyone.

Concerning the Holy Spirit, many people believe that the role of the Holy Spirit is to keep us from sinning. That isn't true. The Holy Spirit's role is to enlighten and give us wisdom. Thus, Paul is speaking about himself under the influence of the Holy Spirit, who is helping Paul see the wisdom located in the Ten Commandments. Paul had his epiphany about the 10th Commandment AFTER he was born again -- in my opinion.

Track down every mention of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament and I believe you will find knowledge and wisdom is the primary goal of the Holy Spirit. I don't think we will find anyone teaching that the Holy Spirit keeps us from sinning. He helps us avoid sin only to the degree that he makes us aware of our sins.

 

[marks]

Yes.

I don't think that fits what he wrote, myself. He was a certain way, and now he is "no more", that is, no longer that way, is how I read this.

Our lust runs so deep that we have no access to it. We can't stop lusting.

I think this is the entire reason behind this teaching. We cannot stop lusting, so God has made us into a different, a new person, who does not lust. So we are no more the luster, that stays with the flesh, and we have become spirit.

The Holy Spirit's role is to enlighten and give us wisdom.

I would sooner say, the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives is to produce Christ-life in us.

I don't think Paul was recording details about an epiphany in saying, It is no more I, but sin that lives in me, then specifying, that is, in my flesh.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal

He says it twice - It is no more I, but sin that lives in me.

What did he mean? "no more I", this signifies that it was him, and now it's not. What changed? And what was the change?

Can you have a correct understanding of this passage if you cannot explain this part?

The correct understanding is made clear in other translations. Some adamently claim it is impossible for "true" Christians to ever sin. This is a post hoc fallacy as they re-categorize those who sin as nver being "true" Christians in the first place.

The way other translations put it is that we can no longer habitually sin without feeling guilty and repenting. It's analagous to a divorce being filed or intiated. This is the way.

To answer your question of what changed in him was the divorce of sin from ourselves. Hence, it is no longer "I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me". This divorce won't be final until our death, until we are no longer carnal. But in the glorious meantime, we are no longer happy in our sinning. We stumble and repent, recognizing our actions are not the way as we grow and become more sanctified in Christ.

Yes, it resides within us because we remain carnal, but our Lord's claim on us is stronger than its claim on us. Amen!

Hope this helps.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I don't think that fits what he wrote, myself. He was a certain way, and now he is "no more", that is, no longer that way, is how I read this.

What language in the passage suggests, "I was once this way but no more"? I don't see that.

Consider these two passages.

Current reality:
Romans 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Future reality:
Romans 8:23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

Yes, we have the Spirit now. And the Spirit helps, guides, informs, and leads us. But it doesn't fix us. We stillhave this body of death. According to Paul we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, which he includes "the redemption of our body." And what does that mean?

Paul is a wretched man who has a body of death. He indicates that as a result, he doesn't do what he wants to do; rather, he obeys the "law" of his members instead. He looks forward to being set free from this body of death, which he describes as the redemption of his body.

Now:
He is a wretched man with a body of death.

Later:
He is a man who will one day have a redeemed body.

I think this is the entire reason behind this teaching. We cannot stop lusting, so God has made us into a different, a new person, who does not lust. So we are no more the luster, that stays with the flesh, and we have become spirit.


I would sooner say, the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives is to produce Christ-life in us.

Can you point me to passages that say or suggest that the role of the Holy Spirit is to produce "Christ-life in us? I can think of one passage that can be taken to mean something like that, but I don't think it says this.

In Romans 8, Paul speaks about our having the "Spirit of Christ" which calls out "Abba Father." Some mistakenly teach this as a term of endearment. But that is not what Paul meant. The phrase "Abba Father" is remanicient of what Jesus said just before he went to the cross. "And He was saying, “Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will.”

The Spirit of "Abba Father," which we have been given is the attitude reflected in Jesus prayer, "not what I will, but what you will." This was spoken during a time of great trial and suffering. It is no coincidence that Paul begins to talk about suffering and how the suffering of this world can not be compared to the glory that is to be revealed to us.

The mark of the indwelling Holy Spirit is our attitude to set God's will ahead of our own.

 

[Johann]

Can you point me to passages that say or suggest that the role of the Holy Spirit is to produce "Christ-life in us? I can think of one passage that can be taken to mean something like that, but I don't think it says this.

Please consider these reasons why we must each be morphed:

To overcome the defacing of His image due to sin.

Our mind is polluted from the fall, the world and our own choices—we need mental detoxification, mind renewal, reprogramming, and the mind of Christ.

We need a new mind to go along with our salvation.

We need a new value system, desires and goals—His (Philippians 2:13).

Renewal of our mind removes negative thinking, a prime source of mental and physical illness.6

To put off the old man (sin oriented, self-centered, defensive behavior, unable to admit being wrong, anger, moodiness, etc.) (Ephesians 4:22).

To put on the new man (Colossians 3:10, Ephesians 4:24).

To remove the overwhelming burden of thinking our performance is the measure of our standing with the Lord.
Mental baggage (hidden in the deep recesses of our mind) holds us down, keeps us captive to the past, and we have to get rid of it.

More on Mental Baggage
A woman saw a very large and powerful elephant at a circus that was restrained by a small chain. The woman knew that the elephant could easily break the chain if it wanted, but every time the elephant came to the end of the chain it just stopped and did not even try to break free. The trainer said that the chain was the same one that was used when the elephant was little, and at that time the elephant tried and tried to break it but could not. So the elephant learned at that time that it could not break the chain, and he still remembers that. “You see,” said the trainer, “it is not the chain that holds the elephant captive but his memories.” Sadly, this is true for many of us, our memories hold us captive and we do not experience the freedom that is ours in Christ. Precious memories are the fabric of our lives, but unpleasant memories unravel that fabric.

The author often gets letters, calls, and emails from believers who have had a miserable past. The accounts go on and on about a terrible childhood, physical abuse, sexual abuse, depression, wrong treatment, unfaithful friends/spouses, bad parents, alcohol and drug abuse….Some people seem to be dealt a very poor hand in life, some create it themselves. Sometimes the past is composed of good things that no longer exist (careers, fame, family, friends, wealth); these can also be negative when viewed from the perspective of great loss. The negative memories of the past, when ruminated about (thought about over and over in one’s mind) will only consume a person emotionally and physically. Negative thinking about the past feeds our hostility, bitterness or sense of loss. Since we cannot do anything about the past, we need a new way of viewing it. Constant negative thinking is like a cancer of the soul and is a sure formula for actual mental illness. That is why we are instructed in Philippians 3:13-14 to put it behind us (forget about the past) and look forward to the finish line.

If we wallow in the negative events of our past and do not allow transformation, then the past will continue to be our present and future.

In an effort to relieve the pain of the past and in order to foster healing many people have tried forgiving those who have offended them. Often they are disappointed, stating that forgiveness doesn’t work because they still remember the pain of the past and people still treat them the same. Forgiveness does not mean we will forget the past; only God can forget such things. Forgiveness on our part does not change the past, or others for that matter; what it does is release us from the stranglehold the past has on our present life. Thus, it creates in us a new perspective that allows us to move forward in life. Forgiveness creates a condition in which the memories of the past do not continue to control us emotionally—so a memory of the past does not create sorrow, hostility or tears. In this regard, a Christian friend or therapist using Scriptural principles may be used by the Lord to help a person see and interpret the past and themselves differently. It is better to forgive past injustice than to let it fester into bitterness7 that tarnishes the rest of our life. Our future in Christ can be very different, provided we allow Him to make the truth that “all things are become new” (II Corinthians 5:17) part of our daily life.

For clarification purposes, forgiveness and forgetting the past relate to our mind; however, other civil, legal and family responsibilities still remain. One can walk away from an errant mind into a new way of thinking but one should not walk away from earthly responsibilities. So, debts, child support, criminal activities, and similar responsibilities must still be addressed.

When our minds are held captive there is no joy. Renewal of the mind allows the Lord to remove that which holds our minds captive and restore our joy. Consider this Biblical example. After the first destruction of the temple in Jerusalem many Jews were forced into Babylonian exile where they lamented, “By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion. We hanged our harps upon the willows in the mist thereof. For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth…” (Psalms 137:1-3). I believe this text teaches the principle that when in captivity there is no relief from sorrow. Hanging the harps on the willow is very symbolic for it makes two things clear: 1) the harps that normally brought joy could no longer do so, and 2) the willow trees (the bark contains salicylic acid, the precursor of aspirin) could not blunt their pain. (From that time the graceful tree was known as the weeping willow).8 In similar fashion, our past, problems, addictions, etc., can hold us captive and nothing in this world will relieve the pain or sorrow—only Christ can.

There is no joy while our mind is held captive to anything but Christ.

Purpose
Pastor Sadler states, “When the present dispensation was committed to Paul, the very nature of `grace’ gave birth to a new revelation in regard to our Christian walk.”9 Lewis Sperry Chafer emphasizes, “God has a purpose under grace, for a whole new manner of life for the believer,”10 that is:

Adjustment of our life to the indwelling-presence of the Holy Spirit, and of maintaining an unbroken attitude of dependence on that Spirit.
The law could work no change in the heart/mind, nor can our attempts to keep rules; the Spirit only can do this.

Under grace, God proposes by the Spirit to first create the heavenly motives and desires, and then, by the same Spirit, to empower the life through the Word unto the full realization of those desires (Philippians 2:13).
Thus, it may be seen that grace is not a way of escaping obedience to God, it is the only possible way in which true obedience can be secured.

If you squeeze an orange you get orange juice, every time. If you want grape juice no amount of faith or sincere prayer will enable grape juice to come out of an orange. Even a child knows you always get orange juice, “because that’s what’s in it.” The question is, what comes out of us when we are squeezed? What is truly inside is what will come out when squeezed by the stress of life. Does cursing, addictive behavior, bitterness, revenge, or sorrow come out? As the Lord transforms our mind and renews it His fruit is produced in our mind; then what will come out will be love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance (Galatians 5:22-23). “For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth” (Ephesians 5:9).

How Morphing Works
Believers should embrace and clearly understand transformation.

It is not an instantaneous act of God, it is a process of God (lifelong).

It is not a gift (it is not acquired all at one time or in a complete form like a gift); it is the ongoing work of the

Holy Spirit requiring cooperation and effort on our part. In this regard, it helps to understand that generally a spiritual gift and an act of God go together (example: salvation), whereas, spiritual fruit and a process of God go together (examples: love, joy, peace).
The passive voice (Greek) in Romans 12:2 means the Holy Spirit will do the transforming for us as we cooperate with Him (listening, yielding, relying, submitting, learning, praying, studying, obeying…).
We do not get a renewed mind by just praying, asking or believing. There are no shortcuts or quick and easy ways for becoming spiritually mature.

It results in His fruit growing in us (Galatians 5:22-23, Philippians 1:11, Ephesians 5:9).

Fruit grows slowly, requiring: nurturing (Word, prayer, obedience…), cultivation (weed removal, i.e., those old things in our life that choke out our new life in Christ), watering (worship and praise), fertile ground (a mind receptive and hungry), pruning (some strategic removal of “self” so that we can be closer to the Vine and produce better fruit), and pest removal (Ephesians 6, spiritual warfare).
The schematics below will be used to help illustrate this important ministry. Concerning the soul and spirit, Hebrews 4:12 indicates that only the Word of God can discern the difference between them because they are so much alike in their nature and activities. Likewise, the activities of soul, mind and heart are similar, overlapping considerably.

Words of wisdom
Shalom
J.

 

[marks]

"I was once this way but no more"? I don't see that.

Where he says, therefore it is no more I that do it, but sin that lives in me. "No more" speaks of the cessation of a previous order. "Go and sin no more", you were sinning, now you are to not sin any longer. Same thing here. It is no more I. It once was, but now it's not.

Much love!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Where he says, therefore it is no more I that do it, but sin that lives in me. "No more" speaks of the cessation of a previous order. "Go and sin no more", you were sinning, now you are to not sin any longer. Same thing here. It is no more I. It once was, but now it's not.

Much love!

Sin lives in him. How is that a new or different order?