Romans

[followerofchrist]

Okay these two verses in Romans are really interesting to me. But there are a few opinions on here I would like first.Romans 8:29-3029For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[Christina]

Romans 8:29 "For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."He foreknew them in the first earth age, and their success and love for Him. These are "the elect" of God, and in that first earth age God also predestinated them to be similar, or like the image of Jesus Christ [His son]. This is referring to the "only begotten Son of God" who died on the cross and arose again after the third day, and now sits on the right hand of the Father in heaven to be our advocate. Remember back in verse [23], "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." The "first fruits" of the Spirit are those that God will intercede in their lives to make these Scriptures come to pass. Both "the elect" and the "free will" Christians have the first fruits of the Spirit, when they are in the Will of God, and are in obedience to our heavenly Father. God made some of His children similar in their compassion, like Jesus Christ had when He went to the cross. They care about those lost souls, and open themselves up to be used by the Father, and they strive to never be deceived by Satan. Though we might fall short at times, but spiritually we know that Satan is our adversary, and enemy.Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified , them He glorified."God is telling you here why He "predestined" them, and how He could do this and yet still have it all be in fairness to God. When God predestinated a person, He also "called" that person. There is a difference between "called" and "chosen"; for many are called, but few are chosen. When God called one to do His work, He also judged [justified] that person at that time. The time of the judging was in the first earth age, at the time of the overthrow of Satan, before the foundations of this flesh age were formed. It was at that time that the Father made those that were "predestinated", "called and judged" [called the elect] to have a similar compassion for lost souls as Christ had. In that first earth age they became the "Zadok" or "the just", or "Elect" of this earth age.

 

[Christina]

It is the Elect who are the overcomers of the End the Elect is the reason why God shortens the time of the tribulation the Elect are those put on trial before Antichristduring the tribulation the Elect are the fore known ones the tried and tested overcomers of the first earth age this is where God pre knows them from. The Elect are predestined Paul was a good example of an Elect he was forechosen by God to perform certain duties that God had appointed him to do .Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect. Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?Anyone can choose to become and overcomer and Join with the Elect but you must overcome to the End. This is the free Will part of Gods promise

 

[Carico]

here is a difference between "called" and "chosen"; for many are called, but few are chosen. Actually, that's not what that verse says. It says, "For many are invited, but few are chosen." Romans 11:28, "For God's gifts and His call are irrevocable." That means that no one has the power to resist God's call as romans 9:19 explains. No power exists that's greater than the Holy Spirit, not even the devil. So when God calls us, as Ezekiel 36:27 explains, "And I will put my Spirit in you and I will move you to follow my decrees and obey my laws."

 

[Jordan]

(Carico;59387)
here is a difference between "called" and "chosen"; for many are called, but few are chosen. Actually, that's not what that verse says. It says, "For many are invited, but few are chosen." Romans 11:28, "For God's gifts and His call are irrevocable." That means that no one has the power to resist God's call as romans 9:19 explains. No power exists that's greater than the Holy Spirit, not even the devil. So when God calls us, as Ezekiel 36:27 explains, "And I will put my Spirit in you and I will move you to follow my decrees and obey my laws."
I do not like the sound of this very post... sounds way too bitter for my taste. Many are invited? Invited of what? To God's Kingdom? I'm sorry, that's wrong if you think that. ALL can go to the Father in Christ's name.Many are called of God, but few are chosen. Not everybody will listen to God's Words.

 

[SoldierforChrist]

I agree Jordan. The Bible plain and simpy states:John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.Acts 2:21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.Romans 10:13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.It is simply put, this is a "WHOSOEVER" gospel. Whosoever asks for salvation and repents can have it. It is a free gift, and Whosoever doesn't call upon the name of the Lord shall goto hell.

 

[Jordan]

(SoldierforChrist;59443)
I agree Jordan. The Bible plain and simpy states:John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.Acts 2:21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.Romans 10:13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.It is simply put, this is a "WHOSOEVER" gospel. Whosoever asks for salvation and repents can have it. It is a free gift, and Whosoever doesn't call upon the name of the Lord shall goto hell.
Which Hell? The burning forever Hell? or the Second Death Hell, which is the Lake of Fire?If Burning forever in Hell is your answer. All I will say that it is completely unbiblical.Anyway, we know not the hearts of the people. Only God can be their judged.

 

[SoldierforChrist]

(Jordan;59447)
If Burning forever in Hell is your answer. All I will say that it is completely unbiblical.
How can you say that? There are tons of verses in the Bible that clearly state if you do not accept Jesus as your Saviour then you will be cast into an everlasting hell. How can you say you are a christian and believe the Bible if you do not believe in such a clear fundemental truth as Hell?Mark 9:45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:Mark 9:47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:Luke 12:5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.Revelation 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Jordan]

(SoldierforChrist;59449)
(Jordan;59447)
Which Hell? The burning forever Hell? or the Second Death Hell, which is the Lake of Fire?If Burning forever in Hell is your answer. All I will say that it is completely unbiblical.Anyway, we know not the hearts of the people. Only God can be their judged.
How can you say that? There are tons of verses in the Bible that clearly state if you do not accept Jesus as your Saviour then you will be cast into an everlasting hell. How can you say you are a christian and believe the Bible if you do not believe in such a clear fundemental truth as Hell?Mark 9:45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:Mark 9:47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:Luke 12:5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.Revelation 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.Revelation 20:14 disproves your position to be quite honest. This is one of the things that we need to dig deeper into the study... I'll quote some scriptures.Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.The word perish means total destruction. Greek word ἀπόλλυμι (apollymi)622. apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee from 575 and the base of 3639; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:--destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

 

[SoldierforChrist]

(Jordan;59452)
Revelation 20:14 disproves your position to be quite honest. This is one of the things that we need to dig deeper into the study... I'll quote some scriptures.Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.The word perish means total destruction. Greek word ἀπόλλυμι (apollymi)622. apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee from 575 and the base of 3639; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:--destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
Well Jordan, spiritual death is the seperation of our soul from God. That is why the Bible explains that we are dead in our sins until we accept Jesus as our Saviour, and then that makes us alive spirtually. So, when we are thrown into hell for rejecting God, we are eternally seperated from Him, meaning we are eternally dead. We have perished.I don't see how you can throw away all the verses about hell and the fire? How do you explain those?

 

[Jordan]

(SoldierforChrist;59459)
(Jordan;59452)
Revelation 20:14 disproves your position to be quite honest. This is one of the things that we need to dig deeper into the study... I'll quote some scriptures.Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.The word perish means total destruction. Greek word ἀπόλλυμι (apollymi)622. apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee from 575 and the base of 3639; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:--destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
Well Jordan, spiritual death is the seperation of our soul from God. That is why the Bible explains that we are dead in our sins until we accept Jesus as our Saviour, and then that makes us alive spirtually. So, when we are thrown into hell for rejecting God, we are eternally seperated from Him, meaning we are eternally dead. We have perished.I don't see how you can throw away all the verses about hell and the fire? How do you explain those?Take me for example... if my soul dies... it is no seperation. It means total annihilation. If my soul dies, it means I will no longer exist. That's what perish means. Death means death. Burning forever does not equal death. That is the Lake of Fire. Look at Satan. (Ezekiel 28:18)

 

[Christina]

Seems we are talking two different things here there is a hell as the story of Lazarus shows us. But that is differnt than the second death which is the death of the soul and it is this second death of being thrown in the Lake of fire that one ceases to exist. this will not happen until after the White throne Judgement, the word forever here means an age. Till the age is doneAt the End of this age all evil (Satan and his) are burnt their soul destroyed, cease to exist. There is no sin or evil in the New Heaven and New earth.Lets try to stick to the subject of this thread which is the foreknown the Elect it you want discuss Hell lets start a new thread,Thanks