Sabbath Issues

[DuckieLady]

1 John 5:9

Walter

Total agreement!

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Total agreement!

I did not always think that I was supposed to keep His commands until years ago, learning to follow His steps. To me now it is totally a new way of life.

Walter

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I did not always think that I was supposed to keep His commands until years ago, learning to follow His steps. To me now it is totally a new way of life.

Walter

Really! I find myself more contented.
Walter

 

[GEN2REV]

Really! I find myself more contented.
Walter

So many are led to believe His Commands are burdensome and a Tyrannical test of our devotion, etc., but the truth is that every Commandment is given for our own betterment and well being.

There's no better way to live. In that sense, it makes life much easier. Different, but easier in the grand scheme of things.

 

[farouk]

...but the Jewish ceremonial sabbath is not repeated by the Lord Jesus in the New Testament.

Romans, Galatians and Ephesians and Hebrews make it clear we are not under the law.

The 'obedience of faith', of which Paul speaks, and being 'His workmanship' (Ephesians 2.10) are distinct from being under the law, with its ceremonies and prescriptions.

 

[GEN2REV]

...but the Jewish ceremonial sabbath is not repeated by the Lord Jesus in the New Testament.

Romans, Galatians and Ephesians and Hebrews make it clear we are not under the law.

The 'obedience of faith', of which Paul speaks, and being 'His workmanship' (Ephesians 2.10) are distinct from being under the law, with its ceremonies and prescriptions.

Yet, Jesus and all the Apostles kept the Commandments all the same.

Paul said the Law is good in Romans and he was described in Acts as being a bona fide "keeper of the Law."

"... thou, thyself also walkest orderly and keepest the law."
Acts 21:24

That means that he, like Jesus and all the Apostles, observed the 7th Day Sabbath and obeyed all the Commandments.

 

[DuckieLady]

...but the Jewish ceremonial sabbath is not repeated by the Lord Jesus in the New Testament.

Romans, Galatians and Ephesians and Hebrews make it clear we are not under the law.

The 'obedience of faith', of which Paul speaks, and being 'His workmanship' (Ephesians 2.10) are distinct from being under the law, with its ceremonies and prescriptions.

Matthew 24:20 “But pray you that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day:” -Jesus

Luke 23:56 “they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath day according to the Commandment.”

Some mentions of the Sabbath for fun

Acts 13:14
Acts 13:27
Acts 13:42, 44
Acts 15:21
Acts 17:1-2
Acts 18:4
Luke 4:16
Luke 6:6
Luke 13:10
Mark 1:21
Mark 6:2

 

[farouk]

Matthew 24:20 “But pray you that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day:” -Jesus

Luke 23:56 “they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath day according to the Commandment.”

Some mentions of the Sabbath for fun

Acts 13:14
Acts 13:27
Acts 13:42, 44
Acts 15:21
Acts 17:1-2
Acts 18:4
Luke 4:16
Luke 6:6
Luke 13:10
Mark 1:21
Mark 6:2

Luke 23 was indeed before Pentecost, the birthday of the church.

Matthew 24 (as does do events mentioned in Luke 21)seems to have the context of Tribulation saints (after the church has gone).

 

[farouk]

Yet, Jesus and all the Apostles kept the Commandments all the same.

Paul said the Law is good in Romans and he was described in Acts as being a bona fide "keeper of the Law."

"... thou, thyself also walkest orderly and keepest the law."
Acts 21:24

That means that he, like Jesus and all the Apostles, observed the 7th Day Sabbath and obeyed all the Commandments.

...but a Gentile believer does not have to adopt the Jewish ceremonies and ways in order to be an authentic Christian (this is a strong message in Acts). Those elders in Jerusalem in Acts 21 were seriously misled. Look indeed what happened next; Paul did not even get to finish his offering in the temple before events took their course which showed just how vast was the difference between the lawkeepers and Paul as a pilgrim believer in Christ under grace.

(Here's a good quote: )

As far as lawkeeping and Sabbath-keeping and even the outwardly correct form of a past system are concerned, I belong with the carcasses of dead animals good only to be burned on the trash heap, out of sight and out of mind.

I would again emphasize that I belong with the carcasses of dead animals good only to be burned on the trash heap, out of sight and out of mind.

This is where the Lord Jesus is.

"For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name." (Hebrews 13.11-15)

 

[GEN2REV]

...but a Gentile believer does not have to adopt the Jewish ceremonies and ways in order to be an authentic Christian (this is a strong message in Acts). Those elders in Jerusalem in Acts 21 were seriously misled. Look indeed what happened next; Paul did not even get to finish his offering in the temple before events took their course which showed just how vast was the difference between the lawkeepers and Paul as a pilgrim believer in Christ under grace.

(Here's a good quote: )

As far as lawkeeping and Sabbath-keeping and even the outwardly correct form of a past system are concerned, I belong with the carcasses of dead animals good only to be burned on the trash heap, out of sight and out of mind.

I would again emphasize that I belong with the carcasses of dead animals good only to be burned on the trash heap, out of sight and out of mind.

This is where the Lord Jesus is.

"For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name." (Hebrews 13.11-15)

Jesus kept the Law.

"... as His custom was (Jesus did this regularly - all His life), He went into the syanagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read."
Luke 4:16

" He that saith he abideth in Him (All Christians = those who follow the ways of Christ) ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked (should live as He lived, following His ways).
1 John 2:6

Jesus Ways = following all the 10 Commandments; including the 4th Commandment (Observe the Sabbath day and keep it holy).

 

[strobe]

Your age is a factor. If it's your real age, then you aren't some young person, fresh out of the public indoctrination system, made to memorize and regurgitate a whole lot of nonsense about mankind coming from monkeys and caves, you've had many years to think for yourself - if you so chose to - and somewhere along the way absorbed a bit of knowledge of the Bible, yet still somehow hold fast to the nonsense you were brainwashed to believe in grade school.

This is dripping with irony. I take you're a home schooled teenager who learned his "science" from the likes of Kent Hovind. Of course there's no brainwashing possible there but you should have learned to respect your elders by now or you'll be sent to bed with no supper. I find it strange that someone who claims the laminin molecule is some kind of evidence of God and presumably can use a computer should disparage science to much, you didn't learn about them from the Bible, I feel sure.

And you've completely deaf-eared the information that was presented to you already. Another blight on your credibility as a sincere individual here.

More irony from someone who can't put two and two together when told that I accept that evolution is the mechanism by which God makes living things and why I don't believe the creation days could have been literal.

People that are sincerely here to discuss God and the Bible don't brute their way into the crowd with blinders on and earplugs in while spouting their propaganda about the Bible not making sense.

Irony meter overload now.

So what's your real purpose here?

To discuss God and the Bible with people who have something interesting and intelligent to say.

 

[GEN2REV]

To discuss God and the Bible with people who have something interesting and intelligent to say.

And by interesting and intelligent, you mean only those who agree with your warped and ill-informed concepts of Christianity, right?

Understood.

 

[strobe]

And by interesting and intelligent, you mean only those who agree with your warped and ill-informed concepts of Christianity, right?

Understood.

Okay, you've broken my irony meter. I hope you'll foot the bill or you'll be on detention for a week!

 

[GEN2REV]

Okay, you've broken my irony meter. I hope you'll foot the bill or you'll be on detention for a week!

Everything I've presented is backed by rock-solid scripture. Your ideas, as you've admitted, are backed by science.

I was being sincere when I tried the first time to have a discussion with you. You refused. Again, I am only curious why you claim that God creating the world in 6 days doesn't make any sense. Think about it and discuss it. Maybe you've never had anybody discuss it with you from a Biblical perspective. If you've only read science articles that stated that it's impossible because of x, y and z, you are ill-informed.

Take a look at the other side of the equation if you wish to consider it fully.

ETA: You admitted those days have an 'evening and a morning.' Then you wouldn't touch the topic again.

 

[strobe]

Everything I've presented is backed by rock-solid scripture. Your ideas, as you've admitted, are backed by science.

I was being sincere when I tried the first time to have a discussion with you. You refused. Again, I am only curious why you claim that God creating the world in 6 days doesn't make any sense. Think about it and discuss it. Maybe you've never had anybody discuss it with you from a Biblical perspective. If you've only read science articles that stated that it's impossible because of x, y and z, you are ill-informed.

Take a look at the other side of the equation if you wish to consider it fully.

ETA: You admitted those days have an 'evening and a morning.' Then you wouldn't touch the topic again.

Well if you didn't come across as so rude and arrogant, then just maybe I would more open to discussing things with you. I see through a glass very dimly but here is an outline of where I am at the moment.
The six days of creation relate to a prophesy of six 1000 year periods designed by God because He wanted to make Man into His own image.
The light on day one was Adam, the only man cretated in God's image. He fell and Eve became the mother of the rest of mankind.
Day two was the establishment of the Noachian covenant that set up the sacrificial system which would pave the path to Jesus' sacrifice to cover the whole world.
Day three related to the Mosaic law.
On the fourth day, the Sun and Moon related to Jesus and John the Baptist.
Day five was the rise of the church.
Day six, the imminent second coming of Jesus which will finally mean mankind will be made in His image.
I am guessing the Sabbath has no morning or evening because it has neither started nor finished and God has not rested yet (John 5:17 that I keep bringing up)
Evolution or the findings of modern science are nothing to do with any of this and that is why I have no desire to argue about them here.

 

[GEN2REV]

Well if you didn't come across as so rude and arrogant, then just maybe I would more open to discussing things with you. I see through a glass very dimly but here is an outline of where I am at the moment.
The six days of creation relate to a prophesy of six 1000 year periods designed by God because He wanted to make Man into His own image.
The light on day one was Adam, the only man cretated in God's image. He fell and Eve became the mother of the rest of mankind.
Day two was the establishment of the Noachian covenant that set up the sacrificial system which would pave the path to Jesus' sacrifice to cover the whole world.
Day three related to the Mosaic law.
On the fourth day, the Sun and Moon related to Jesus and John the Baptist.
Day five was the rise of the church.
Day six, the imminent second coming of Jesus which will finally mean mankind will be made in His image.
I am guessing the Sabbath has no morning or evening because it has neither started nor finished and God has not rested yet (John 5:17 that I keep bringing up)
Evolution or the findings of modern science are nothing to do with any of this and that is why I have no desire to argue about them here.

Thanks for the explanation. Curious where those concepts come from. You must be careful about buying into ideas that don't come from, or align with, scripture.

And claiming 6 literal days doesn't make any sense is left without explanation. My concern with perspectives like this is that many people don't have a big, or powerful, enough concept of God. To me, if He can even create a world like ours at all, who's to say He couldn't have done it in an instant if He'd wanted to?

But there's a reason for each and every thing He does. I just accept His Word and believe that if He wants to convey anything to us, He does it clearly, and without mystery or any room for debate, because His power is way beyond my ability to comprehend.
Romans 11:33
Romans 11:36

After all, He is not the author of confusion.
1 Corinthians 14:33

 

[strobe]

Thanks for the explanation. Curious where those concepts come from. You must be careful about buying into ideas that don't come from, or align with, scripture.

And claiming 6 literal days doesn't make any sense is left without explanation. My concern with perspectives like this is that many people don't have a big, or powerful, enough concept of God. To me, if He can even create a world like ours at all, who's to say He couldn't have done it in an instant if He'd wanted to?

But there's a reason for each and every thing He does. I just accept His Word and believe that if He wants to convey anything to us, He does it clearly, and without mystery or any room for debate, because His power is way beyond my ability to comprehend.
Romans 11:33
Romans 11:36

After all, He is not the author of confusion.
1 Corinthians 14:33

I didn't say He couldn't, just that it makes more sense given all that scientists have discovered that He didn't. As you say, He is not the author of confusion but it would be more difficult to convince people of that if He had made a very young Earth that appeared to be billions of years old.

 

[GEN2REV]

I didn't say He couldn't, just that it makes more sense given all that scientists have discovered that He didn't. As you say, He is not the author of confusion but it would be more difficult to convince people of that if He had made a very young Earth that appeared to be billions of years old.

It's a dangerous path to trust all that scientists have to tell us. That is putting our faith in man. Man is not only fallible, but capable of corruption by many things. And if you believe in God at all, you are required to also believe that He has an arch enemy who will, and does, do all that he can to distract, dissuade, misguide and corrupt all Truth, and thus all information that is circulated by, and among, mankind.

Convincing people is not important. I don't bother with Atheists, only those who claim to be Christian. Most are very misguided and fooled by all the deception of the enemy that is amok in this fallen world. And nobody can come to God anyway without God calling them. John 6:44, John 14:6.

The only reason anybody believes the earth appears old is because they were indoctrinated to believe that. Watch a doc, or read, about the other side of things. Public schools should teach the scientific AND the Biblical perspective on things. Those who believe the Bible have found ample evidence that all of the various evidence for an old earth can also be used as evidence of a young one.

It's all about what one is looking for. If you're looking for evidence to support science, there's lots of proponents of that out there. If you're looking for proof of the Bible, it too is out there, albeit in much less concentration because Truth is a threat to those who control and run everything. And that's not conspiracy theory, it's proven fact which is supported by scripture.

 

[strobe]

It's a dangerous path to trust all that scientists have to tell us. That is putting our faith in man. Man is not only fallible, but capable of corruption by many things. And if you believe in God at all, you are required to also believe that He has an arch enemy who will, and does, do all that he can to distract, dissuade, misguide and corrupt all Truth, and thus all information that is circulated by, and among, mankind.

Convincing people is not important. I don't bother with Atheists, only those who claim to be Christian. Most are very misguided and fooled by all the deception of the enemy that is amok in this fallen world. And nobody can come to God anyway without God calling them. John 6:44, John 14:6.

The only reason anybody believe the earth appears old is because they were indoctrinated to believe that. Watch a doc, or read, about the other side of things. Public schools should teach the scientific AND the Biblical perspective on things. Those who believe the Bible have found ample evidence that all of the various evidence for an old earth can also be used as evidence of a young one.

It's all about what one is looking for. If you're looking for evidence to support science, there's lots of proponents of that out there. If you're looking for proof of the Bible, it too is out there, albeit in much less concentration because Truth is a threat to those who control and run everything. And that's not conspiracy theory, it's proven fact.

Take it from me I have watched as much on that as anyone and I'm thoroughly convinced young earthers have no more of a leg to stand on than flat earthers. I'll give it one more shot though if it will make you shut up about it - send me a link to the best video you have and I will watch it.

 

[strobe]

It's a dangerous path to trust all that scientists have to tell us. That is putting our faith in man. Man is not only fallible, but capable of corruption by many things. And if you believe in God at all, you are required to also believe that He has an arch enemy who will, and does, do all that he can to distract, dissuade, misguide and corrupt all Truth, and thus all information that is circulated by, and among, mankind.

Convincing people is not important. I don't bother with Atheists, only those who claim to be Christian. Most are very misguided and fooled by all the deception of the enemy that is amok in this fallen world. And nobody can come to God anyway without God calling them. John 6:44, John 14:6.

The only reason anybody believes the earth appears old is because they were indoctrinated to believe that. Watch a doc, or read, about the other side of things. Public schools should teach the scientific AND the Biblical perspective on things. Those who believe the Bible have found ample evidence that all of the various evidence for an old earth can also be used as evidence of a young one.

It's all about what one is looking for. If you're looking for evidence to support science, there's lots of proponents of that out there. If you're looking for proof of the Bible, it too is out there, albeit in much less concentration because Truth is a threat to those who control and run everything. And that's not conspiracy theory, it's proven fact which is supported by scripture.

Obviously (I hope) it doesn't have to be a video but I will need more that just a link to a website that I have to trawl though for hours an end. A single page with a concise argument would be perfect.