Sabbath-Keeping

[Axehead]

Jesus never broke the law (John 15:10 KJV) The only laws He ignored were the ones which didn't originate from Him. If He broke a law, He would have become a sinner because that's what sin is (1 John 3:4 KJV)

My point, exactly! He never broke the law, because love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[zeke25]

Jesus never broke the law (John 15:10 KJV) The only laws He ignored were the ones which didn't originate from Him. If He broke a law, He would have become a sinner because that's what sin is (1 John 3:4 KJV)

Phoneman777,

You have no answer to Dt. 5:15, therefore your entire theological base is a fraud. Why are you afraid to address a Scripture that contradicts your fantasy stories? You show open contempt for the Bible.

Zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneman777,

You are trying to slip under the radar I see.

Where's your answer to Dt.5:15 from post #209. Here is what I said:

"So, there is your dilemma. You, with no Scriptural support, claim the sabbath was given during creation week, when Dt 5:15 says that it was given by Moses as part of the Law. So, where was the sabbath given other than to Moses? Without answering this your entire house of cards fall. If you continue to refuse to engage the Scriptures you are given, there will be no further need to respond to your antichrist teachings."

So Phoneman777, except that you have a valid answer, you are exposed as a heretic and one who teaches antichrist material. You have no ability to discuss Scriptures and you ignore those that are inconvenient to you. I want to remind everyone who engages in conversation here, that I will willingly dialogue with anyone who thinks we should be obeying the Law. However, Phoneman777 is a different breed completely. He refuses to discuss any Scripture that proves him wrong, he continually makes false accusations against those who would hold him accountable, and is aI flat out liar. I would call on all of you that are serious about serving the LORD to avoid wasting your time dialoging with him.


Zeke25

Zeke, I assure you I have not been avoiding you, but I also assure you that if you don't start manifesting a spirit of brotherly love rather than insult, unkindness, domination, and judgment, I WILL mark you as one of them that cause divisions and offence and avoid you (Romans 16:17 KJV).

The reason God told the Israelites to remember that they were servants in Egypt is because the previous verse commands that servants be allowed to rest and lest they deny their servants rest, God wanted to remind them that they themselves had just been delivered from a burdensome Pharaoh who denied THEM rest. The Sabbath now represents the rest we enjoy from the burden of sin, which is why those who have entered into His rest cease from working on the Sabbath just as God rested.

The Sabbath was not made for "Israelite", it was made for man (Gr. "Anthropas" = "mankind") which includes all of us. The seventh day Sabbath was created in the beginning and it is more than reasonable to conclude it was among the voice, commandments, statutes, and laws that Abraham kept, and that Joseph refused to break. It was codefied at Sinai, Hebrews 4:9 in the Pishitta correctly translates it "it is therefore the duty of God's people to keep the Sabbath", and will be kept for all eternity (Isaiah 66:23 KJV).

I am not teaching Antichrist doctrine. It was the Antichrist who abolished the Sabbath (which Christians kept for many centuries after Calvary) and set up "the venerable day of the Sun god" in its place.

 

[Axehead]

Zeke, I assure you I have not been avoiding you, but I also assure you that if you don't start manifesting a spirit of brotherly love rather than insult, unkindness, domination, and judgment, I WILL mark you as one of them that cause divisions and offence and avoid you (Romans 16:17 KJV).

The reason God told the Israelites to remember that they were servants in Egypt is because the previous verse commands that servants be allowed to rest and lest they deny these rest, God wanted to remind them that they themselves had just been delivered from a burdensome Pharaoh who denied THEM rest. The Sabbath now represents the rest we enjoy from the burden of sin, which is why those who have entered into His rest cease from working on the Sabbath just as God rested.

The Sabbath was not made for "Israelite", it was made for man (Gr. "Anthropas" = "mankind") which includes all of us. The seventh day Sabbath was created in the beginning and it is more than reasonable to conclude it was among the voice, commandments, statutes, and laws that Abraham kept, and that Joseph refused to break. It was codefied at Sinai, Hebrews 4:9 in the Pishitta correctly translates it "it is therefore the duty of God's people to keep the Sabbath and will be kept for all eternity (Isaiah 66:23 KJV).

I am not teaching Antichrist doctrine. It was the Antichrist who abolished the Sabbath (which Christians kept for many centuries after Calvary) and set up "the venerable day of the Sun god" in its place.

See, what I highlighted in RED?

by "entered into His rest", you mean spiritually, right?

by "cease from working on the Sabbath just as God rested" you mean physically, right? Except, God did not rest physically. No need for that and that is not the rest He is talking about.

You are mixing apples and oranges.


If one has "entered His rest", spiritually, then they have ceased from working (for their own righteousness) every day not just on one day.

 

[Phoneman777]

See, what I highlighted in RED?

by "entered into His rest", you mean spiritually, right?

by "cease from working on the Sabbath just as God rested" you mean physically, right? Except, God did not rest physically. No need for that and that is not the rest He is talking about.

You are mixing apples and oranges.


If one has "entered His rest", spiritually, then they have ceased from working (for their own righteousness) every day not just on one day.

I'm not mixing apples and oranges. I'm saying His rest and our rest are the SAME. God rested from "LITERAL" work, and "as God did", so we are to rest from our "LITERAL" work as sign that we've entered into spiritual rest, just as Baptism is a sign of the old man's death and burial and resurrection in Christ. God never rested from any attempt to gain righteousness or any such thing - He rested from LITERAL work.

Hebrews 4:9 in the Peshitta Bible aptly translates that it is our DUTY to keep the Sabbath.

 

[zeke25]

Zeke, I assure you I have not been avoiding you, but I also assure you that if you don't start manifesting a spirit of brotherly love rather than insult, unkindness, domination, and judgment, I WILL mark you as one of them that cause divisions and offence and avoid you (Romans 16:17 KJV).

The reason God told the Israelites to remember that they were servants in Egypt is because the previous verse commands that servants be allowed to rest and lest they deny their servants rest, God wanted to remind them that they themselves had just been delivered from a burdensome Pharaoh who denied THEM rest. The Sabbath now represents the rest we enjoy from the burden of sin, which is why those who have entered into His rest cease from working on the Sabbath just as God rested.

The Sabbath was not made for "Israelite", it was made for man (Gr. "Anthropas" = "mankind") which includes all of us. The seventh day Sabbath was created in the beginning and it is more than reasonable to conclude it was among the voice, commandments, statutes, and laws that Abraham kept, and that Joseph refused to break. It was codefied at Sinai, Hebrews 4:9 in the Pishitta correctly translates it "it is therefore the duty of God's people to keep the Sabbath", and will be kept for all eternity (Isaiah 66:23 KJV).

I am not teaching Antichrist doctrine. It was the Antichrist who abolished the Sabbath (which Christians kept for many centuries after Calvary) and set up "the venerable day of the Sun god" in its place.

Phoneman777,

Deuteronomy 5:15 KJV, "And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that[Yahowah] thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore [Yahowah] thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day."

Phonemann, you wrote a lot of words, but you did not address the question. Dt. 5:15 shows that the sabbath was given to the Hebrews under Moses. The question is where is the Scripture that shows that it was ever given to anyone else?

Phoneman said: The seventh day Sabbath was created in the beginning and it is more than reasonable to conclude it was among the voice, commandments, statutes, and laws that Abraham kept, and that Joseph refused to break.

Zeke replies: Where is the Scripture that shows that the Sabbath was created in the beginning? It is not there.
You say that it is "reasonable" that it was given verbally. Where is the Scripture to support that conjecture? You have none.
You claim that Abraham kept the law. But you have no Scripture to base that assumption upon.
You claim that Joseph refused to break this law. But you have no Scripture to support the false notion that Joseph kept the Law given through Moses.

Phoneman, you have given us 4 assumptions here. You have provided no Scriptural support whatsoever. Your wishing it to be so will never make it be. Where are the Scriptures?

You still have no valid reply to Dt. 5:15.

You still have no valid reply to Ex. 31:13: Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
The Sabbath was a sign between Yah and the Hebrews. If the Sabbath was given to anyone else, ever, then it would make this Scripture a lie. God does not lie.

You still have no valid reply to Ezekiel 20:12: Ezekiel 20:12 KJV, "Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am [Yahowah] that sanctify them. Once again, if the Sabbath were given to anyone else, ever, then it would not be a special sign between God and the Hebrews.

You still have no valid reply to Nehemiah 9:13-14: 13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: 14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant[.]
If there was a verbal tradition, and there was not, then why did God need to give His Law to Moses? Simple answer, there was no verbal tradition given to Abraham, Adam, or anyone else. It is all a figment of your imagination.

Your doctrine is not supported by the Scriptures. Your imagination and those you learn from are not valid sources from which to gain and promote Biblical doctrine. Therefore, the doctrine you promote is not from God Almighty, nor His Bible.

Please, give me a Scripture, any Scripture that supports your foreign doctrine and nullifies the 4 Scriptures above?

You quote Isaiah 66:23: And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. Then you claim that this Scriptures says the Law will continue forever. Where in this Scripture does it say that? Simple answer, it does not say that. It says that we will worship before Him.

You give us your definition of the Greek word "Anthropas" = "mankind". That's nice. But since you fail to give a Scripture with which to apply this definition your point is null and void. You have already shown repeatedly that even when you quote a Scripture you make claims about it that are not even there. So, where is the Scripture that makes anthropas meaningful to this discussion?

Hebrews 4:9 KJV, "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God." In context with the surrounding Scriptures this is the correct translation. The Peshitta has a corrupted translation if it is trying to claim that we are to keep a Sabbath day. In fact, it really doesn't even say we are to keep a Sabbath day (meaning the 7th day of a complete week). It says we are to keep a rest (a sabbath). It is only your erroneous interpretation that concludes that this means we are to keep the Sabbath day.

I hesitated in adding this additional information because you will use this as a license to ignore the more important 4 Scriptures above that show conclusively that you have no Scriptural support for your fantasy doctrines: namely that Abraham keep the Law of Moses and that Adam broke the Law of Moses and that the Sabbath day was established in Genesis 1. This you have no Scriptural support for. If you want to believe and follow this folly, that is your business. But you should not come to a Christian chat room and try to promote this heresy without Scriptural support, and all the while chiding the Body of Christ for failing to follow your lead.

Zeke25

 

[Axehead]

I'm not mixing apples and oranges. I'm saying His rest and our rest are the SAME. God rested from "LITERAL" work, and "as God did", so we are to rest from our "LITERAL" work as sign that we've entered into spiritual rest, just as Baptism is a sign of the old man's death and burial and resurrection in Christ. God never rested from any attempt to gain righteousness or any such thing - He rested from LITERAL work.

Hebrews 4:9 in the Peshitta Bible aptly translates that it is our DUTY to keep the Sabbath.

There is no place in Scripture where we are to rest from our literal work. Well, except for one, but it's not just literal work, but doing our own ways, finding our own pleasure and speaking our own words. Nothing figurative about this statement.

Isa_58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shalt honor him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Isaiah 58:13 – Says the Jews are not to do their own ways, or do their own pleasures or speak their own words.
In other words, you can’t sit around and talk about the good times. You cannot talk about fishing or hunting or sports or organic gardening or making bread. You can’t talk about your new building project or what the kids have been doing that week and how funny it was. You couldn't get together with the family and friends and laugh and have a good time on the Sabbath.

You couldn't “speak your own words”. The Sabbath was the time to speak only the words of God. So picture this, everyone is staying at home, no one is going in or out, no one is carrying a load, no one cooking anything. Everyone in a state of total relaxation, just praying, singing and speaking the words of God for the 24 hours. That is the way they kept the Sabbath in the OT.

And certainly, there would be no travelling through corn fields and picking corn. Let it be noted that Jesus did not sin in this literal work of His.

This would all be characterized as LITERAL WORK, not figurative, mind you.

Has the observance of the Sabbath changed since the way that God said it should be observed in the OT? If so, where is the transition teaching for the Church today on how it should be observed? How do people know how to observe it? References, please.


Axehead

When God made a covenant with the nation of Israel, He made it with the Jews, with the Israelites, not with Abraham and the Bible never speaks of us, the Church, as being the seed of Jacob (Israel) or the seed of Isaac. It speaks of us being the seed of Abraham by faith and that has nothing to do with the nation of Israel.
We are the seed of a Gentile that did not keep the Sabbath, not the seed of an Israelite or a Jew who was commanded to keep the Sabbath. This is powerful!! This is extremely significant.

Now, how do we know this and what is the first mention of Sabbath keeping in Exodus 20:8? Let’s look at it.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Now God commands this to the Jews and says not their menservants, thy maidservants and not their cattle, in other words, on the Sabbath, they could not hitch up their buggy and go to worship. The cows and horses couldn’t work. On the Sabbath they could not kindle a fire or carry any kind of load.

In Nehemiah 9:13 we have an interesting statement about the Sabbath.

Neh 9:13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:

Now verse 14 is the key: Look at this very closely.

Neh 9:14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

What did Moses do?

When he came down on mount Sinai, he made known unto them the Holy Sabbath. Meaning they did not know about it before Moses knew about it.

So the Word of God tells us that this is when God "made known unto the Children of Israel", the Jews, His Holy Sabbath. No one from Adam knew about the Sabbath or were ever commanded to observe it. How could they observe what they never knew about? And that is why we never see a record of Sabbath keeping before Moses.

To tell us that God instituted Sabbath Keeping from the book of Genesis is absolutely false! He instituted nothing of the kind. The Bible tells us that He rested. That was His business! And when He got ready to reveal it, He revealed it to the nation of Israel and it was a sign between Him and the nation of Israel. Not between anyone else. A sign of a covenant. A covenant that he made with the nation of Israel. He never made that covenant with the nations of Gentiles. And the Gentiles have not entered into that covenant. The covenant that the Gentiles have entered into is the covenant that God made with Abraham to bless the world through his seed. Abraham was a Gentile not a Jew, not an Israelite and there is no evidence that he kept the Sabbath. We cannot use assumptions here when God is very detailed in His Word concerning topics that are of great importance to Him.

Axehead

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneman777,

Deuteronomy 5:15 KJV, "And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that[Yahowah] thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore [Yahowah] thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day."

Phonemann, you wrote a lot of words, but you did not address the question. Dt. 5:15 shows that the sabbath was given to the Hebrews under Moses. The question is where is the Scripture that shows that it was ever given to anyone else?

Phoneman said: The seventh day Sabbath was created in the beginning and it is more than reasonable to conclude it was among the voice, commandments, statutes, and laws that Abraham kept, and that Joseph refused to break.

Zeke replies: Where is the Scripture that shows that the Sabbath was created in the beginning? It is not there.
You say that it is "reasonable" that it was given verbally. Where is the Scripture to support that conjecture? You have none.
You claim that Abraham kept the law. But you have no Scripture to base that assumption upon.
You claim that Joseph refused to break this law. But you have no Scripture to support the false notion that Joseph kept the Law given through Moses.

Phoneman, you have given us 4 assumptions here. You have provided no Scriptural support whatsoever. Your wishing it to be so will never make it be. Where are the Scriptures?

You still have no valid reply to Dt. 5:15.

You still have no valid reply to Ex. 31:13: Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
The Sabbath was a sign between Yah and the Hebrews. If the Sabbath was given to anyone else, ever, then it would make this Scripture a lie. God does not lie.

You still have no valid reply to Ezekiel 20:12: Ezekiel 20:12 KJV, "Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am [Yahowah] that sanctify them. Once again, if the Sabbath were given to anyone else, ever, then it would not be a special sign between God and the Hebrews.

You still have no valid reply to Nehemiah 9:13-14: 13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: 14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant[.]
If there was a verbal tradition, and there was not, then why did God need to give His Law to Moses? Simple answer, there was no verbal tradition given to Abraham, Adam, or anyone else. It is all a figment of your imagination.

Your doctrine is not supported by the Scriptures. Your imagination and those you learn from are not valid sources from which to gain and promote Biblical doctrine. Therefore, the doctrine you promote is not from God Almighty, nor His Bible.

Please, give me a Scripture, any Scripture that supports your foreign doctrine and nullifies the 4 Scriptures above?

You quote Isaiah 66:23: And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. Then you claim that this Scriptures says the Law will continue forever. Where in this Scripture does it say that? Simple answer, it does not say that. It says that we will worship before Him.

You give us your definition of the Greek word "Anthropas" = "mankind". That's nice. But since you fail to give a Scripture with which to apply this definition your point is null and void. You have already shown repeatedly that even when you quote a Scripture you make claims about it that are not even there. So, where is the Scripture that makes anthropas meaningful to this discussion?

Hebrews 4:9 KJV, "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God." In context with the surrounding Scriptures this is the correct translation. The Peshitta has a corrupted translation if it is trying to claim that we are to keep a Sabbath day. In fact, it really doesn't even say we are to keep a Sabbath day (meaning the 7th day of a complete week). It says we are to keep a rest (a sabbath). It is only your erroneous interpretation that concludes that this means we are to keep the Sabbath day.

I hesitated in adding this additional information because you will use this as a license to ignore the more important 4 Scriptures above that show conclusively that you have no Scriptural support for your fantasy doctrines: namely that Abraham keep the Law of Moses and that Adam broke the Law of Moses and that the Sabbath day was established in Genesis 1. This you have no Scriptural support for. If you want to believe and follow this folly, that is your business. But you should not come to a Christian chat room and try to promote this heresy without Scriptural support, and all the while chiding the Body of Christ for failing to follow your lead.

Zek

Zeke:
According to Genesis 2:1-3 KJV, God "rested" on the seventh day, "blessed" the seventh day, and "sanctified" the seventh day because of Creation.
According to Exodus 20:11 KJV, God "rested" on the seventh day, "blessed" the Sabbath day, and "hallowed" it (the Sabbath day) because of Creation.

We know that God rested on, blessed and sanctified the seventh day in Eden. The question is where and when did God rest on, bless, and hallow the Sabbath? Here are two reasons why any other answer than "Eden" would be wrong:

1. He connects both the "seventh day" and "Sabbath" to Eden:

• When God says in Exodus 20:11 KJV, "...For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it," it is plain to see that He in the same breath speaks of the blessing and hallowing of the Sabbath day as a consequence of His actions IN EDEN WHEN HE RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY. Got it? He plainly says the "Sabbath day" was blessed and hallowed WHEN HE RESTED FROM THE FIRST SIX DAYS OF CREATION.

2. No need for redundancy:

• 1 Chronicles 17:27 KJV declares "Thou blessest, and it shall be blessed forever." There was no need for God to re-bless or re-hallow the seventh day at Sinai that had already been blessed and hallowed back in Eden. When God blesses and hallows something, it stays blessed and hallowed, period.

Seeing that your views and mine are founded on where and when we believe Scripture says the Sabbath began, if you are unwilling to accept the Biblical evidence for why the Sabbath was created back in Eden for mankind, and not at Mount Sinai for the Israelites, then any further discussion between us about Old Testament Sabbath verses is pointless.

BTW, if you falsely accuse me once more, we are done. I never once said that Adam and Abraham were subject to the Law of Moses. I argue that they were subject to the Ten Commandments. The Law of Moses was "added (to the Ten Commandments which go back to Eden) because of transgression (of the Ten Commandments which go back to Eden) until the Seed should come." Galatians 3:16 KJV

There is no place in Scripture where we are to rest from our literal work. Well, except for one, but it's not just literal work, but doing our own ways, finding our own pleasure and speaking our own words. Nothing figurative about this statement.

Isa_58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shalt honor him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Isaiah 58:13 – Says the Jews are not to do their own ways, or do their own pleasures or speak their own words.
In other words, you can’t sit around and talk about the good times. You cannot talk about fishing or hunting or sports or organic gardening or making bread. You can’t talk about your new building project or what the kids have been doing that week and how funny it was. You couldn't get together with the family and friends and laugh and have a good time on the Sabbath.

You couldn't “speak your own words”. The Sabbath was the time to speak only the words of God. So picture this, everyone is staying at home, no one is going in or out, no one is carrying a load, no one cooking anything. Everyone in a state of total relaxation, just praying, singing and speaking the words of God for the 24 hours. That is the way they kept the Sabbath in the OT.

And certainly, there would be no travelling through corn fields and picking corn. Let it be noted that Jesus did not sin in this literal work of His.

This would all be characterized as LITERAL WORK, not figurative, mind you.

Has the observance of the Sabbath changed since the way that God said it should be observed in the OT? If so, where is the transition teaching for the Church today on how it should be observed? How do people know how to observe it? References, please.


Axehead

When God made a covenant with the nation of Israel, He made it with the Jews, with the Israelites, not with Abraham and the Bible never speaks of us, the Church, as being the seed of Jacob (Israel) or the seed of Isaac. It speaks of us being the seed of Abraham by faith and that has nothing to do with the nation of Israel.
We are the seed of a Gentile that did not keep the Sabbath, not the seed of an Israelite or a Jew who was commanded to keep the Sabbath. This is powerful!! This is extremely significant.

Now, how do we know this and what is the first mention of Sabbath keeping in Exodus 20:8? Let’s look at it.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Now God commands this to the Jews and says not their menservants, thy maidservants and not their cattle, in other words, on the Sabbath, they could not hitch up their buggy and go to worship. The cows and horses couldn’t work. On the Sabbath they could not kindle a fire or carry any kind of load.

In Nehemiah 9:13 we have an interesting statement about the Sabbath.

Neh 9:13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:

Now verse 14 is the key: Look at this very closely.

Neh 9:14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

What did Moses do?

When he came down on mount Sinai, he made known unto them the Holy Sabbath. Meaning they did not know about it before Moses knew about it.

So the Word of God tells us that this is when God "made known unto the Children of Israel", the Jews, His Holy Sabbath. No one from Adam knew about the Sabbath or were ever commanded to observe it. How could they observe what they never knew about? And that is why we never see a record of Sabbath keeping before Moses.

To tell us that God instituted Sabbath Keeping from the book of Genesis is absolutely false! He instituted nothing of the kind. The Bible tells us that He rested. That was His business! And when He got ready to reveal it, He revealed it to the nation of Israel and it was a sign between Him and the nation of Israel. Not between anyone else. A sign of a covenant. A covenant that he made with the nation of Israel. He never made that covenant with the nations of Gentiles. And the Gentiles have not entered into that covenant. The covenant that the Gentiles have entered into is the covenant that God made with Abraham to bless the world through his seed. Abraham was a Gentile not a Jew, not an Israelite and there is no evidence that he kept the Sabbath. We cannot use assumptions here when God is very detailed in His Word concerning topics that are of great importance to Him.

Axehead

Not knowing about something doesn't negate its existence. 400 years of pagan bondage is enough to make anyone forget.

Of course the Sabbath goes back to Creation because God said He blessed and hallowed the Sabbath day when He rested from the six days of Creation.(Exodus 20:11 KJV). That was back in Eden, not Sinai.

He Created the Sabbath back in the Garden of Eden for mankind (Mark 2:27-28 KJV), not at Sinai for Israel, and there is no reason to deny that the Sabbath commandment was not right back there in the days when Cain knew what murder was, Abraham knew what lying was, Joseph knew what adultery was, etc. Would God create the Sabbath for mankind in the Garden of Eden and hide it from them until the time of Moses?

 

[zeke25]

Zeke:
According to Genesis 2:1-3 KJV, God "rested" on the seventh day, "blessed" the seventh day, and "sanctified" the seventh day because of Creation.
According to Exodus 20:11 KJV, God "rested" on the seventh day, "blessed" the Sabbath day, and "hallowed" it (the Sabbath day) because of Creation.

We know that God rested on, blessed and sanctified the seventh day in Eden. The question is where and when did God rest on, bless, and hallow the Sabbath? Here are two reasons why any other answer than "Eden" would be wrong:

1. He connects both the "seventh day" and "Sabbath" to Eden:

• When God says in Exodus 20:11 KJV, "...For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it," it is plain to see that He in the same breath speaks of the blessing and hallowing of the Sabbath day as a consequence of His actions IN EDEN WHEN HE RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY. Got it? He plainly says the "Sabbath day" was blessed and hallowed WHEN HE RESTED FROM THE FIRST SIX DAYS OF CREATION.

2. No need for redundancy:

• 1 Chronicles 17:27 KJV declares "Thou blessest, and it shall be blessed forever." There was no need for God to re-bless or re-hallow the seventh day at Sinai that had already been blessed and hallowed back in Eden. When God blesses and hallows something, it stays blessed and hallowed, period.

Seeing that your views and mine are founded on where and when we believe Scripture says the Sabbath began, if you are unwilling to accept the Biblical evidence for why the Sabbath was created back in Eden for mankind, and not at Mount Sinai for the Israelites, then any further discussion between us about Old Testament Sabbath verses is pointless.

BTW, if you falsely accuse me once more, we are done. I never once said that Adam and Abraham were subject to the Law of Moses. I argue that they were subject to the Ten Commandments. The Law of Moses was "added (to the Ten Commandments which go back to Eden) because of transgression (of the Ten Commandments which go back to Eden) until the Seed should come." Galatians 3:16 KJV

Not knowing about something doesn't negate its existence. 400 years of pagan bondage is enough to make anyone forget.

Of course the Sabbath goes back to Creation because God said He blessed and hallowed the Sabbath day when He rested from the six days of Creation.(Exodus 20:11 KJV). That was back in Eden, not Sinai.

He Created the Sabbath back in the Garden of Eden for mankind (Mark 2:27-28 KJV), not at Sinai for Israel, and there is no reason to deny that the Sabbath commandment was not right back there in the days when Cain knew what murder was, Abraham knew what lying was, Joseph knew what adultery was, etc. Would God create the Sabbath for mankind in the Garden of Eden and hide it from them until the time of Moses?

Phoneman said:
According to Genesis 2:1-3 KJV, God "rested" on the seventh day, "blessed" the seventh day, and "sanctified" the seventh day because of Creation.
According to Exodus 20:11 KJV, God "rested" on the seventh day, "blessed" the Sabbath day, and "hallowed" it (the Sabbath day) because of Creation.

We know that God rested on, blessed and sanctified the seventh day in Eden. The question is where and when did God rest on, bless, and hallow the Sabbath? Here are two reasons why any other answer than "Eden" would be wrong:

1. He connects both the "seventh day" and "Sabbath" to Eden:
• When God says in Exodus 20:11 KJV, "...For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it," it is plain to see that He in the same breath speaks of the blessing and hallowing of the Sabbath day as a consequence of His actions IN EDEN WHEN HE RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY. Got it? He plainly says the "Sabbath day" was blessed and hallowed WHEN HE RESTED FROM THE FIRST SIX DAYS OF CREATION.

Zeke replies:




2. End of the week sabbath keeping was first brought to the attention of man, and only the Hebrews, circa two and one-half thousand years after the creation of man in the Garden of Eden. This brings us to circa 1,500 BC, and Exodus 16:22-23 KJV, "22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 And he said unto them, This is that which [Yahowah] hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto [Yahowah]: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning." Prior to this, the sabbath was unknown to man and not in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible. How do we know that the sabbath was unknown to man prior to Exodus 16:23? Look at Deuteronomy 5:15 KJV, "And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that [Yahowah] thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore [Yahowah] thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day." See also Exodus 31:13. As you can read in verse fifteen, God gave the command to the Hebrews to keep the sabbath day of rest after He brought them out of the land of Egypt 430 years after He brought them into Egypt. This was circa 1,500 BC. If anyone can find an earlier date that God told anyone to keep the sabbath, or even told anyone that there was such a thing as the sabbath then please share this Scripture with us. We need to know.

3.a. There are some who mistakenly believe that the sabbath was instituted by God in Genesis 2:2-3 KJV, "2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." You will notice that the word sabbath is not in these two verses, nor in the book of Genesis at all. God did not call the seventh day of creation, the day on which He ceased from His creation activities, a sabbath day. Nor can it be shown in Scripture that the seventh day of creation falls into the Saturday slot. When God introduced the seventh day of creation as a day of rest, He was introducing His rest which He had prepared and desired for man to enter into, He was not introducing weekly sabbath keeping. In fact, the seventh day of creation week is a Friday, not a Saturday or Sabbath: see our treatise on the "Calendar of Scripture" parts I and II.

3.b. Furthermore, if God was introducing weekly sabbath keeping in Genesis 2, then why did He not do it on a sabbath day? There is no Biblical evidence to confirm that the seventh day of creation was a sabbath day. In fact, since Genesis 2 does not call the seventh day a sabbath, that would strongly suggest that it was not. If the doctrine of sabbath keeping was being introduced in Genesis 2, it would have benefited our tiny minds if our Creator had told us so, by at least telling us that He was talking about the sabbath. But He did not. He did not, because He was not introducing the doctrine of weekly sabbath keeping, instead He was introducing the doctrine of spiritual rest from our labors. See "Sabbath Keeping, Part I - Why It Was Established". There is more Biblical evidence to show that the seventh day of creation was not a sabbath. However, to explain this, one must have knowledge of the Calendar of Scripture and one must assume that God began creation on the first day of the first month of the first year of creation. Why would He not?

3.c. God further supports the doctrine of entering into His rest with sabbath days that are not the seventh day of a perfect week. Days such as the feast days of Scripture and those days that specify that no work is to be done. The weekly sabbath was only one of several tools God used to teach us the doctrine of entering into His rest.

3.d. But for those that mistakenly believe that sabbath keeping is a doctrine in and of itself, for those who preach and teach the gospel of man, it is very important to them to establish its beginning in Genesis 2, a place where it simply is not found no matter how much bantering they do about it. Because sabbath keeping is not an end to itself, sabbath keeping is merely a temporary tool used by our Creator to teach us about His sabbath rest. Sabbath keeping was given only to the Hebrews and only after they departed Egypt. Ezekiel 20:12 KJV, "Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am [Yahowah] that sanctify them." See also Nehemiah 9:13-14 (Part III).

4.a. Subsequently, God furthered the doctrine of entering into His rest by introducing the weekly sabbath rest in Exodus 16:23, and three weeks later making it part of the Torah and the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20:8-11 KJV, "8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of [Yahowah] thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days [Yahowah] made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore [Yahowah] blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

4.b. Once again, for those who erroneously teach that these verses confirm that weekly sabbath keeping was taught in Genesis 2, we will take a closer look at these verses. First, I will point out the obvious. It is highly doubtful that God would start a teaching in Genesis 2:2-3 (wherein the sabbath was never mentioned) and then totally drop the subject for two and one-half thousand years; then continue with the teaching in Exodus 20:10-11. In Exodus 20:10a the word sabbath is written again, but it is not referring back to Genesis 2 and calling the seventh day of creation the sabbath. Instead, it is referring to the seventh day of a complete week and drawing a comparison, a type, with the six days of work performed in Genesis chapter one followed by a day of rest. Why is there a difference between the seventh day of creation and an end of the week sabbath? As discussion in paragraph 3a above, there is no Biblical proof that the seventh day of creation was the end of a complete week; in other words, there is no proof that it was in the Saturday slot. It should be no surprise that the Scriptural Calendar does not look like Gregory's calendar. After all, Pope Gregory was part of the antichrist system and it was prophesied that this antichrist would think to change the times. Daniel 7:25 KJV, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time." The changing of times has occurred from the Scriptural Calendar, with its Lunar and Sun times pieces, to a Sun only based calendar.

4.c. In Exodus 20:11 the sabbath is written again. It says that "Yahowah blessed the sabbath day". The sabbath day which Yahowah blessed is the sabbath day mentioned in verse 8; and the seventh day and the sabbath day written in verse 10a; but it is not calling the seventh day of creation in verse 11 a sabbath day. Instead, it is merely using, once again, the pattern of the seventh day of creation as a type. It is saying that the pattern is that the seventh day following six days of work, is a sabbath. God even blessed and sanctified the seventh day of creation week, but He never called it a sabbath. Why is this distinction so important? It is important because those who want weekly sabbath observing to be a physical requirement for resting will never understand and strive for the spiritual rest - that God is teaching - that God has prepared for us and desires for us to enter. The Law is contrary to us and prevents us from entering into His rest. We will never obtain His rest, our salvation, by our own physical exertion and mental resolve to do so. It can only be obtained by trusting, believing, and having faith in the Almighty God, Yahowah is His name.

4.d. Besides, the sabbath rest was only given to the Hebrews in the Desert of Sin. Does that mean the rest of mankind is left out in the cold? Not at all. We all can enter into His rest, not by observing the Law or a weekly Sabbath, but by placing our faith and hope in the finished work of Yahoshua the Messiah upon the execution stake of Calvary.

5. Do not let this next point escape your notice, you may miss your salvation and end up on the road to hell. Even though the Hebrews fleeing Egypt to the Promise Land observed the weekly sabbath as required by the Torah, they did not enter into His rest. But those who believed the gospel enter into His rest. Hebrews 4:2-3,6 KJV, "2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief.”



Phoneman says: Seeing that your views and mine are founded on where and when we believe Scripture says the Sabbath began, if you are unwilling to accept the Biblical evidence for why the Sabbath was created back in Eden for mankind, and not at Mount Sinai for the Israelites, then any further discussion between us about Old Testament Sabbath verses is pointless.

Zeke25 replies: My views are based upon that which the Bible teaches. As has been demonstrated by your 4 assumptions in the previous post #226, your views are based upon your own wishful thinking, with no Scriptural support. You are unwilling to accept the authority of the Scriptures and are attempting to re-write the Bible to suit your pre-chosen agenda. How convenient it is for you to say that further discussion is pointless. It is pointless for you because you have no intention of submitting to the authority of the Scriptures. And since I will not follow you down that dark path, you will merely move onto someone that is willing to be your victim of deception. Your agenda is to place those who have been freed from the Torah by Christ’s sacrifice, back under the curse of the Law. This is a work of one who is against Christ and His shed Blood. You are talking to one who has first hand experience with your heresy. I have seen many a good friend go down this slippery slope on their way to hell, and they are still held captive to this vain antichrist philosophy after 25 years. I’ve seen your dirty work first hand. I know the damage it can do to unsuspecting innocent souls. You are the new Pharisees, the Judaizers as shown in Acts 21:20. Read the whole chapter. Paul had just shared his testimony about the souls that were saved, but they had one better, we follow Christ too (so they claimed) but we are zealous for the Law. Liars, each and every one of them. You cannot put new wine into old wineskins. They required Paul to undergo a purification ritual to test his loyalty - they thought they had him trapped. But to their surprise Paul agreed to do it. But they would thwart their evil plan. They did not want Paul to complete the purification ritual. So, on the last day, prior to completion of the ritual, they showed their true colors. Paul was forcibly pulled from the Temple under false pretenses and they proceeded to beat him to death. You are not fooling me one little bit Phoneman. I do not condemn you, Gal. 5:4 and the words from your own mouth condemn you.



Phoneman says: BTW, if you falsely accuse me once more, we are done. I never once said that Adam and Abraham were subject to the Law of Moses. I argue that they were subject to the Ten Commandments.

Zeke replies: This is another place where your biblical illiteracy shines forth. The Torah is composed of all the statues, which include the Ten Commandments, there is no separation between the Ten Commandments and the rest of the Law of Moses.



Phoneman says: The Law of Moses was "added (to the Ten Commandments which go back to Eden) because of transgression (of the Ten Commandments which go back to Eden) until the Seed should come." Galatians 3:16 KJV


Zeke replies: The Ten Commandments do not go back to Eden. This is another of your fantasy doctrines that has no biblical support. Galatians 3:16 does not support your false contention, rather it disproves it. Gal. 3:16 is teaching that the promise of the Spirit made to Abraham is not taken away by the Torah (which include we that are spiritual children of Abraham) which was given to Moses. Read Gal 3:10-25 to gain a better perspective. Verse 13, the Law was a curse to us. Verse 25, we are not subject to the Law. I’m through with you here, do not bother to reply, instead repent. But don’t think I will sit back and let you hi-jack this thread and spread your gangrene.

In Christ Yahoshua,

Rick / Zeke25

 

[Axehead]

Zeke25,

Thanks for laying everything out and reasoning from the Scriptures. I don't know why people want to "dig their heels in" and protect doctrines of men and not "reason from the Scriptures" as the Bereans did. To reason from the Scriptures, one must be willing to be intellectually honest with themselves and what the Scriptures are saying and not go off into the land of speculation and assumption. The same thing took place in the Tithing thread and I don't know how many Sabbath and Tithing threads there are, but people constantly fail to be honest with the scriptures and reason from them. You are right, their own words condemn them.

The scriptures are very plain that the Sabbath was not created in Eden for mankind. The word Sabbath is not even mentioned until Exodus 16:23.

I don't see anywhere in Genesis 2:3 where God is instructing man about the seventh day of creation. It is not mentioned in Abraham's life at all. It is not mentioned in anyone's life until Moses.
Gen_2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Knowing the importance that God places on major teachings of His, you would think He would have left a clearer picture for NT saints as He has for His other instructions, but He didn't leave any instructions on the Sabbath on purpose. It was not instituted FOR MAN until Moses.

The key for the Sabbath Keepers is to prove that God instituted the Sabbath to be kept by Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel and everyone else down through time and the Scriptures are not only not silent about it, but plainly show that is not the case.

Neh 9:14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

We also have the understanding of the Spirit of God and Christ's sacrifice and grace and the understanding of Galatians and so much more in the NT to realize that this teaching is heretical to the Spirit of Grace.

And now, let the readers consider with prayer, everything that was offered in this thread.

Axehead

 

[zeke25]

Zeke25,

Thanks for laying everything out and reasoning from the Scriptures. I don't know why people want to "dig their heels in" and protect doctrines of men and not "reason from the Scriptures" as the Bereans did. To reason from the Scriptures, one must be willing to be intellectually honest with themselves and what the Scriptures are saying and not go off into the land of speculation and assumption. The same thing took place in the Tithing thread and I don't know how many Sabbath and Tithing threads there are, but people constantly fail to be honest with the scriptures and reason from them. You are right, their own words condemn them.

The scriptures are very plain that the Sabbath was not created in Eden for mankind. The word Sabbath is not even mentioned until Exodus 16:23.

I don't see anywhere in Genesis 2:3 where God is instructing man about the seventh day of creation. It is not mentioned in Abraham's life at all. It is not mentioned in anyone's life until Moses.
Gen_2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Knowing the importance that God places on major teachings of His, you would think He would have left a clearer picture for NT saints as He has for His other instructions, but He didn't leave any instructions on the Sabbath on purpose. It was not instituted FOR MAN until Moses.

The key for the Sabbath Keepers is to prove that God instituted the Sabbath to be kept by Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel and everyone else down through time and the Scriptures are not only not silent about it, but plainly show that is not the case.

Neh 9:14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

We also have the understanding of the Spirit of God and Christ's sacrifice and grace and the understanding of Galatians and so much more in the NT to realize that this teaching is heretical to the Spirit of Grace.

And now, let the readers consider with prayer, everything that was offered in this thread.

Axehead

Hi Axehead,

Thank you for hanging in there. I have appreciated reading that which you have said. I think it important to let everyone know that this is our first contact. We have not contacted or collaborated with each other during this discourse until now. And now it is above board for all to see.

May God bless you brother,
Rick / Zeke25

 

[Axehead]

Hi Axehead,

Thank you for hanging in there. I have appreciated reading that which you have said. I think it important to let everyone know that this is our first contact. We have not contacted or collaborated with each other during this discourse until now. And now it is above board for all to see.

May God bless you brother,
Rick / Zeke25

Yep, that's right. This is our first contact. I really don't know anyone else on this board except one other person and she has not been here for awhile.

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneman said:
According to Genesis 2:1-3 KJV, God "rested" on the seventh day, "blessed" the seventh day, and "sanctified" the seventh day because of Creation.
According to Exodus 20:11 KJV, God "rested" on the seventh day, "blessed" the Sabbath day, and "hallowed" it (the Sabbath day) because of Creation.

We know that God rested on, blessed and sanctified the seventh day in Eden. The question is where and when did God rest on, bless, and hallow the Sabbath? Here are two reasons why any other answer than "Eden" would be wrong:

1. He connects both the "seventh day" and "Sabbath" to Eden:
• When God says in Exodus 20:11 KJV, "...For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it," it is plain to see that He in the same breath speaks of the blessing and hallowing of the Sabbath day as a consequence of His actions IN EDEN WHEN HE RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY. Got it? He plainly says the "Sabbath day" was blessed and hallowed WHEN HE RESTED FROM THE FIRST SIX DAYS OF CREATION.

Zeke replies:




2. End of the week sabbath keeping was first brought to the attention of man, and only the Hebrews, circa two and one-half thousand years after the creation of man in the Garden of Eden. This brings us to circa 1,500 BC, and Exodus 16:22-23 KJV, "22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 And he said unto them, This is that which [Yahowah] hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto [Yahowah]: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning." Prior to this, the sabbath was unknown to man and not in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible. How do we know that the sabbath was unknown to man prior to Exodus 16:23? Look at Deuteronomy 5:15 KJV, "And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that [Yahowah] thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore [Yahowah] thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day." See also Exodus 31:13. As you can read in verse fifteen, God gave the command to the Hebrews to keep the sabbath day of rest after He brought them out of the land of Egypt 430 years after He brought them into Egypt. This was circa 1,500 BC. If anyone can find an earlier date that God told anyone to keep the sabbath, or even told anyone that there was such a thing as the sabbath then please share this Scripture with us. We need to know.

3.a. There are some who mistakenly believe that the sabbath was instituted by God in Genesis 2:2-3 KJV, "2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." You will notice that the word sabbath is not in these two verses, nor in the book of Genesis at all. God did not call the seventh day of creation, the day on which He ceased from His creation activities, a sabbath day. Nor can it be shown in Scripture that the seventh day of creation falls into the Saturday slot. When God introduced the seventh day of creation as a day of rest, He was introducing His rest which He had prepared and desired for man to enter into, He was not introducing weekly sabbath keeping. In fact, the seventh day of creation week is a Friday, not a Saturday or Sabbath: see our treatise on the "Calendar of Scripture" parts I and II.

3.b. Furthermore, if God was introducing weekly sabbath keeping in Genesis 2, then why did He not do it on a sabbath day? There is no Biblical evidence to confirm that the seventh day of creation was a sabbath day. In fact, since Genesis 2 does not call the seventh day a sabbath, that would strongly suggest that it was not. If the doctrine of sabbath keeping was being introduced in Genesis 2, it would have benefited our tiny minds if our Creator had told us so, by at least telling us that He was talking about the sabbath. But He did not. He did not, because He was not introducing the doctrine of weekly sabbath keeping, instead He was introducing the doctrine of spiritual rest from our labors. See "Sabbath Keeping, Part I - Why It Was Established". There is more Biblical evidence to show that the seventh day of creation was not a sabbath. However, to explain this, one must have knowledge of the Calendar of Scripture and one must assume that God began creation on the first day of the first month of the first year of creation. Why would He not?

3.c. God further supports the doctrine of entering into His rest with sabbath days that are not the seventh day of a perfect week. Days such as the feast days of Scripture and those days that specify that no work is to be done. The weekly sabbath was only one of several tools God used to teach us the doctrine of entering into His rest.

3.d. But for those that mistakenly believe that sabbath keeping is a doctrine in and of itself, for those who preach and teach the gospel of man, it is very important to them to establish its beginning in Genesis 2, a place where it simply is not found no matter how much bantering they do about it. Because sabbath keeping is not an end to itself, sabbath keeping is merely a temporary tool used by our Creator to teach us about His sabbath rest. Sabbath keeping was given only to the Hebrews and only after they departed Egypt. Ezekiel 20:12 KJV, "Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am [Yahowah] that sanctify them." See also Nehemiah 9:13-14 (Part III).

4.a. Subsequently, God furthered the doctrine of entering into His rest by introducing the weekly sabbath rest in Exodus 16:23, and three weeks later making it part of the Torah and the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20:8-11 KJV, "8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of [Yahowah] thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days [Yahowah] made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore [Yahowah] blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

4.b. Once again, for those who erroneously teach that these verses confirm that weekly sabbath keeping was taught in Genesis 2, we will take a closer look at these verses. First, I will point out the obvious. It is highly doubtful that God would start a teaching in Genesis 2:2-3 (wherein the sabbath was never mentioned) and then totally drop the subject for two and one-half thousand years; then continue with the teaching in Exodus 20:10-11. In Exodus 20:10a the word sabbath is written again, but it is not referring back to Genesis 2 and calling the seventh day of creation the sabbath. Instead, it is referring to the seventh day of a complete week and drawing a comparison, a type, with the six days of work performed in Genesis chapter one followed by a day of rest. Why is there a difference between the seventh day of creation and an end of the week sabbath? As discussion in paragraph 3a above, there is no Biblical proof that the seventh day of creation was the end of a complete week; in other words, there is no proof that it was in the Saturday slot. It should be no surprise that the Scriptural Calendar does not look like Gregory's calendar. After all, Pope Gregory was part of the antichrist system and it was prophesied that this antichrist would think to change the times. Daniel 7:25 KJV, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time." The changing of times has occurred from the Scriptural Calendar, with its Lunar and Sun times pieces, to a Sun only based calendar.

4.c. In Exodus 20:11 the sabbath is written again. It says that "Yahowah blessed the sabbath day". The sabbath day which Yahowah blessed is the sabbath day mentioned in verse 8; and the seventh day and the sabbath day written in verse 10a; but it is not calling the seventh day of creation in verse 11 a sabbath day. Instead, it is merely using, once again, the pattern of the seventh day of creation as a type. It is saying that the pattern is that the seventh day following six days of work, is a sabbath. God even blessed and sanctified the seventh day of creation week, but He never called it a sabbath. Why is this distinction so important? It is important because those who want weekly sabbath observing to be a physical requirement for resting will never understand and strive for the spiritual rest - that God is teaching - that God has prepared for us and desires for us to enter. The Law is contrary to us and prevents us from entering into His rest. We will never obtain His rest, our salvation, by our own physical exertion and mental resolve to do so. It can only be obtained by trusting, believing, and having faith in the Almighty God, Yahowah is His name.

4.d. Besides, the sabbath rest was only given to the Hebrews in the Desert of Sin. Does that mean the rest of mankind is left out in the cold? Not at all. We all can enter into His rest, not by observing the Law or a weekly Sabbath, but by placing our faith and hope in the finished work of Yahoshua the Messiah upon the execution stake of Calvary.

5. Do not let this next point escape your notice, you may miss your salvation and end up on the road to hell. Even though the Hebrews fleeing Egypt to the Promise Land observed the weekly sabbath as required by the Torah, they did not enter into His rest. But those who believed the gospel enter into His rest. Hebrews 4:2-3,6 KJV, "2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief.”



Phoneman says: Seeing that your views and mine are founded on where and when we believe Scripture says the Sabbath began, if you are unwilling to accept the Biblical evidence for why the Sabbath was created back in Eden for mankind, and not at Mount Sinai for the Israelites, then any further discussion between us about Old Testament Sabbath verses is pointless.

Zeke25 replies: My views are based upon that which the Bible teaches. As has been demonstrated by your 4 assumptions in the previous post #226, your views are based upon your own wishful thinking, with no Scriptural support. You are unwilling to accept the authority of the Scriptures and are attempting to re-write the Bible to suit your pre-chosen agenda. How convenient it is for you to say that further discussion is pointless. It is pointless for you because you have no intention of submitting to the authority of the Scriptures. And since I will not follow you down that dark path, you will merely move onto someone that is willing to be your victim of deception. Your agenda is to place those who have been freed from the Torah by Christ’s sacrifice, back under the curse of the Law. This is a work of one who is against Christ and His shed Blood. You are talking to one who has first hand experience with your heresy. I have seen many a good friend go down this slippery slope on their way to hell, and they are still held captive to this vain antichrist philosophy after 25 years. I’ve seen your dirty work first hand. I know the damage it can do to unsuspecting innocent souls. You are the new Pharisees, the Judaizers as shown in Acts 21:20. Read the whole chapter. Paul had just shared his testimony about the souls that were saved, but they had one better, we follow Christ too (so they claimed) but we are zealous for the Law. Liars, each and every one of them. You cannot put new wine into old wineskins. They required Paul to undergo a purification ritual to test his loyalty - they thought they had him trapped. But to their surprise Paul agreed to do it. But they would thwart their evil plan. They did not want Paul to complete the purification ritual. So, on the last day, prior to completion of the ritual, they showed their true colors. Paul was forcibly pulled from the Temple under false pretenses and they proceeded to beat him to death. You are not fooling me one little bit Phoneman. I do not condemn you, Gal. 5:4 and the words from your own mouth condemn you.



Phoneman says: BTW, if you falsely accuse me once more, we are done. I never once said that Adam and Abraham were subject to the Law of Moses. I argue that they were subject to the Ten Commandments.

Zeke replies: This is another place where your biblical illiteracy shines forth. The Torah is composed of all the statues, which include the Ten Commandments, there is no separation between the Ten Commandments and the rest of the Law of Moses.



Phoneman says: The Law of Moses was "added (to the Ten Commandments which go back to Eden) because of transgression (of the Ten Commandments which go back to Eden) until the Seed should come." Galatians 3:16 KJV


Zeke replies: The Ten Commandments do not go back to Eden. This is another of your fantasy doctrines that has no biblical support. Galatians 3:16 does not support your false contention, rather it disproves it. Gal. 3:16 is teaching that the promise of the Spirit made to Abraham is not taken away by the Torah (which include we that are spiritual children of Abraham) which was given to Moses. Read Gal 3:10-25 to gain a better perspective. Verse 13, the Law was a curse to us. Verse 25, we are not subject to the Law. I’m through with you here, do not bother to reply, instead repent. But don’t think I will sit back and let you hi-jack this thread and spread your gangrene.

In Christ Yahoshua,

Rick / Zeke25

I have shown by comparing Genesis 2:1-3 KJV and Exodus 20:11 KJV that God Himself declares that He blessed the Sabbath day after His six days of Creation which was in Eden at the last day of creation week, NOT SINAI. Although there is no specific text which commands its observance before Sinai, the Biblical evidence demonstrates that there is no reason to deny that it wasn't observed:

The Sabbath was made for “mankind” (Gr. “Anthropos”) and I-S-R-A-E-L-I-T-E is a strange way to spell “mankind”. (Romans 2:27-28 KJV)

God “sanctified” and “blessed” the Sabbath day in Eden which He made for "mankind" and it is utterly ridiculous to believe that God withheld from “mankind” a day that was “set apart for their holy use” in which contained a “blessing” for 2,500 years until Sinai. The Sabbath remains blessed today, and God delights to bless His people. (1 Chronicles 17:27 KJV; Psalm 35:27 KJV)

The very fact that the Sabbath will be kept in eternity should be enough to call attention to the permanent nature of the Sabbath. To stubbornly deny that it was created in Eden, suggest that it was “created” 2,500 years later, suspended for the “church age”, and then will be re-instituted for all eternity is just purely inconsistent nonsense. (Isaiah 66:23 KJV)

God's “charge, commandments, statutes, and laws” existed long before Sinai. (Genesis 26:5 KJV)

That the people had knowledge of God's “charge, commandments, statutes and laws” is demonstrated in that God repeatedly punished those who committed “sin” prior to Sinai, like “the men of Sodom (who) were exceeding great sinners in the sight of God”. What kind of God would punish people for breaking laws of which they knew nothing? The Bible defines sin, of which the people are repeated found guilty over and over long before Sinai, as “transgression of the law”. (1 John 3:4 KJV)

God repeatedly honored those who kept His “charge, commandments, statutes, and laws” like Noah, Abraham, and Joseph.

I believe that you are sincere, but you are sincerely deceived by Jesuit Futurism, which was specifically instituted to destroy Protestantism by an organization that slaughtered multiplied millions of “heretics” in centuries old and has recently stated that those atrocities are still "appropriate" punishments for heretics like me who refuse to honor the Catholic Sunday. You are also a victim of Darby's Dispensationalism, an idea which he developed when he himself became corrupted with Jesuit Futurism back when the Protestant church began to stop protesting, and that is why you believe what you believe. As long as you continue to deny that the Sabbath was not created in Eden, and that murder, stealing, lying, coveting, adultery, killing, idolatry, and the rest of the Ten Commandments were freely violated without retribution from God until Sinai, we have nothing further to discuss, seeing that you refuse to believe and accept the whole of Scripture.

 

[Keeth]

Within this context Jesus says "Law and the Prophets" meaning 613 mitzvot...

Perhaps Jesus is saying we should all be practicing Jews? Or perhaps His audience at this time was Jewish and not Christian...I think the latter.

The law is specified pre the statement, without reference to the prophets. Even if it were the 613, which is doubtful, that would include the ten coomandments and therefore still carry the same meaning. Seeing that Jesus Himself though, predicted the end of the temple and a new form of worship which had no need of the same, it is highly unlikey that He was referring to the 613 many of which are pertaining to the said temple and worship within the same. The NT points out many changes regarding the civil and ceremonial laws, but to the contrary upholds the validity of the ten commandments right up tpo the last book and chapter of the same. Denying this will not change it.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

How do we keep the Sabbath then? Obviously, no one keeps it like they were taught to keep it in the OT so where is the transition teaching from the OT to the NT that tells us how it has been modified? Can you exactly lay out the rules for keeping the Sabbath? And which of the 3 Sabbaths are we to keep and if only one, where is the transition teaching between the covenants that teaches us the other 2 or not necessary? This transition teaching would be very helpful, because I have observed that many people seem to "keep the Sabbath" many ways.

Does keeping the Sabbath just mean going to a religious establishment on a specific day? Or are there deeper spiritual things that are to be taking place?

When the Hebrews spoke of the word Sabbath, it conveyed the thought of REST to them. What conveys REST to a Christian, today? I supposed you would get many answers, so let me ask, what is the REST that Jesus Christ and the Apostles talk about?

Mat_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat_11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

When Jesus says, "Come unto me", is He saying go to a religious establishment on a certain day? Is this a rest from physical work? Looks like Jesus explains Himself (rest for your souls).

Heb_4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Are we to labour to enter a religious establishment once a week?

Do you know what God's rest, is?

God did not rest because He was weary did He? God is Spirit, therefore cannot get tired. God rested because HIS WORK WAS FINISHED.

God said His work was very good and then He rested. No regrets, no do-overs. And this is the rest He offers us. It is not something He imposes on us (as you are doing) but in love and kindness He give it to us. Rest is not a task you normally lay on someone, it is not a burden as Jesus alludes to in Matt 11:28. If Jesus is giving spiritual rest in Matt 11:28, then He is not saying, "Come to me all you who are laboring hard with physical work..."

Rest is found in Christ because in Him the works of God are completed. In Him is the new creation and if any man be in Him, he is a new creature. On the cross, Jesus said, "It is finished," thus showing that in His cross we find that perfect rest that comes alone from the finished work of the Lord.

This rest is received (and gained) by faith because "we which believe do enter into the rest". Because by faith we have the finished, perfect work of the Lord as our own. "This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent". John 6:29.

Believing Him, means receiving Him; and since in Him the works of God are complete, it follows that by believing on Him we find rest. And this rest that Jesus gives is rest from sin and working to be acceptable by God (self-righteousness, which is sin).

Heb_4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

When you understand and receive this, other scriptures will open up to you.

Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Sabbath of the Lord, is the REST of the Lord.

Why would you assume that I don't understand the above? The seventh day Sabbath is a sign and reminder of all of the above. The above does not do away with the Sabbath, it expounds upon greater understanding and insight into the blessings of the Sabbath. The Sabbath has much more meaning than you or I can give it credit for, it was established for perfect beings in perfect world. It will be kept in heaven also. Do you think those in heaven will not be resting in Christ?

 

[justaname]

The law is specified pre the statement, without reference to the prophets. Even if it were the 613, which is doubtful, that would include the ten coomandments and therefore still carry the same meaning. Seeing that Jesus Himself though, predicted the end of the temple and a new form of worship which had no need of the same, it is highly unlikey that He was referring to the 613 many of which are pertaining to the said temple and worship within the same. The NT points out many changes regarding the civil and ceremonial laws, but to the contrary upholds the validity of the ten commandments right up tpo the last book and chapter of the same. Denying this will not change it.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.



Why would you assume that I don't understand the above? The seventh day Sabbath is a sign and reminder of all of the above. The above does not do away with the Sabbath, it expounds upon greater understanding and insight into the blessings of the Sabbath. The Sabbath has much more meaning than you or I can give it credit for, it was established for perfect beings in perfect world. It will be kept in heaven also. Do you think those in heaven will not be resting in Christ?

23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. - 1 John 3:23-24

Doesn't say one thing about practicing the Shabot here...

 

[Keeth]

One of the 10 commandments is "Thou shalt not commit adultery". I think we would all agree that this commandment is speaking of physical adultery and a Christian is obeying this commandment when he refuses to commit physical adultery.
Exo_20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

To my knowledge and by and large the Christian Church agrees that no one was ever accused of committing adultery (in the OT) when lusting in their heart towards a woman. Because, that is not the way it was understood in the OT.

Jesus also understood it this way when he talked about it.
Matt_5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But, Jesus amends this commandment by going further and giving a fuller commandment:
Matt_5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

So, we see that the 10 commandments were only a type of (outward) behavior that would be be revealed by the Spirit of God within the NT Believer as inward character (the character of Christ).

Many today do not commit adultery in the physical sense but are committing adultery in their heart. It is not enough for them to say that they are obeying the 10 commandments but not regarding Jesus' words in Matthew 5:28, at all.

Likewise, many attend a religious service on their "Sabbath", thereby obeying their rendition of "keeping the Sabbath", but are not really saved, and have not come into the Lord's true rest (true salvation).

One would be correct in thinking (according to the teachings of Jesus) that people can obey the 10 commandments and yet find themselves one day in Hell.

One would also be correct in wondering why people place so much emphasis on the type (law, outward) rather than the fulfillment (Spirit, inward- Jesus' words).

Are we leading people astray by telling them to just keep the 10 commandments but not revealing to them the fulfillment of the 10 commandments is the Spirit of God indwelling men who are now free to express His character in them through the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, which has set them free from sin and death (expressing the character of Satan, their former father)? (Rom 8:2)

Jesus is the fulfillment of the 10 commandments!!
He is our Purity, our Truthfulness, our Sabbath (Rest), our example of perfectly obeying and honoring His Father, etc, etc. His life now indwells us and we walk after His life (the Spirit) and turn away from our own (self, Satan's character).

John_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Yes the life and teachings of Christ gave the commandments deeper meaning, it did not do away with them. The problem with your above is that it gives all the rest of the commandments deeper meaning without changing their obvious intent also. Yet with the Sabbath you say it does away with the commandment itself and the day it specifies. This is extra biblical.

23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. - 1 John 3:23-24

Doesn't say one thing about practicing the Shabot here...

So the above scripture negates all other scripture regarding the commandments and Sabbath?

 

[zeke25]

Yet with the Sabbath you say it does away with the commandment itself and the day it specifies. This is extra biblical.


So the above scripture negates all other scripture regarding the commandments and Sabbath?

Keeth,

Since you apparently do not understand who the Sabbath day was given to, you reach wrong conclusions. There is nothing extra biblical about the Sabbath not being practiced today, in fact that is exactly what the Bible teaches - the Sabbath day has served its purpose in history and is no longer a requirement for anyone.

Nothing has been negated about the Sabbath day. No one is required to keep it any more. In fact, those that do have fallen from grace, Gal. 5:4.

Sabbath Keeping
Part I - Why It Was Established


1. Deuteronomy 5:13-15 KJV, "13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of [Yahowah] thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that [Yahowah] thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore [Yahowah] thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day." Mark 2:27 KJV, "And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath." These Scriptures identify why sabbath keeping was established by Yahowah. He gave it so that man, the servants of men, and the beasts of burden would have a period of rest each week. It was given, by a loving God, to increase their quality of life.

2. The sabbath was also given by Yahowah as a precursor, as a type, to His rest that is yet to come for all His children who become born again. This rest, that is to come, is discussed in Hebrews 3:7-19 continuing through 4:1-11 KJV, "7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)" Here the word rest is first spoken in this group of Scriptures. This is the teaching on which we are focusing. "12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?" Rest is written here again. This is the true sabbath rest that God has been teaching throughout the Bible. Not a weekly rest, but a spiritual rest now in the present, and an eternal rest forever. "19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief." and in Hebrews 4:1-5 KJV, "1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world." God has prepared a rest for us, but we must have the faith to enter into this rest. Beginning in Exodus 16 the Hebrews were taught to observe this rest by a weekly sabbath. However, they did not exercise and apply their faith. Therefore, God did not allow most of them to enter into His rest. "4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest." Here God shows the pattern and teaching He prepared for us even from the beginning, even from the seventh day of creation. He did not introduce the sabbath at this time however. But He did introduce the rest that He had prepared for us. It is the rest that God focuses on in Genesis 2:2-3 and here in Hebrews chapters three and four. In fact, the seventh day of creation week is a Friday, not a Saturday or Sabbath: see our treatise on the "Calendar of Scripture" parts I and II. His focus is not on the physical requirements of a sabbath rest day, instead His focus is on the spiritual rest from all our labors. His focus is on the spiritual rest that is ours when we rest in the finished work of Yahoshua on the tree of Calvary. We cannot strive to reach God and strive to maintain our salvation. We can only rest in the power and sovereignty of Yahowah. He did not need our help in creating the heavens and the Earth, He did not need our help in paying for our sins by Yahoshua's death on the tree, and He does not need our help in preparing an eternal rest for us. But He does want our faith and belief that He created the heavens and the Earth. And He wants our faith and belief that He did atone for our sins on the execution stake at Calvary. And He wants our faith and belief that we can enter into His rest. Without this faith we cannot please God, Hebrews 11:6. "Hebrews 4:6-11 KJV, "6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if [Yahoshua] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." This is what God was teaching in Genesis 2:2-3; this is what God was teaching in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5; and this is what God is teaching here in Hebrews 3 and 4. He is teaching of His rest, prepared for His people. The purpose of the old requirements to keep the weekly sabbath was not the beginning point nor the end point of His teachings and requirements; it was not the culminating point; it was not the ordinance above all ordinances to be observed by all for all time. No, not at all. Weekly sabbath keeping was only another tool along the way, used by God, to teach us the importance of entering into His spiritual and permanent rest.





Keeth, I am curious. What do you think about the Apostle Paul? Do you recommend that we should follow his teachings?

Zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. - 1 John 3:23-24

Doesn't say one thing about practicing the Shabot here...

Don't forget that just before He ascended, Jesus told us to teach people "all things whatsoever I have commanded you", not just what you have written, and do you remember what commandments Jesus told the rich young ruler to obey if he would have eternal life? The last six of the Ten Commandments which had to do with "love thy neighbor".

You might say, "That was before the Cross" but also don't forget that after the Cross, the Ten Commandments are mentioned either explicitly or implicitly throughout the NT because they were written with the finger of God and will last forever and ever (Exodus 31:18 KJV;Psalm 111:7-8 KJV) while the law which was against us (Deuteronomy 31:26 KJV) written by the hand of Moses was nailed to the Cross (Colossians 2:14 KJV;1 Corinthians 7:19 KJV).

In light of this, can we really say that the Two Great Commandments replace the Ten or that "love Jesus and believe in Him" does away with "whatsoever things I have commanded you"?

 

[Raeneske]

Hebrews 4:3-5 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

rest: sabbatismos

1. 
   a keeping sabbath
   
2. 
   the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
   

People are continually trying to make this rest that God is talking about, to be Jesus. The Bible does not say that! Jesus is not the Sabbath.

Who is it that enters into rest? Those that believe. Who shall not enter into God's rest? Those that do not believe. When did God rest? At the foundation of the world. When specifically did God rest? Upon the seventh day. What does God say about the seventh day? "And God did rest the seventh day from all his works." What also does God say about the seventh day (in this place again)? If they shall (they shall not) enter into my rest.

So the Bible is clear. God's rest is the rest that He took upon the seventh day, at the foundation of the world. It is this rest that God says those that believe not shall not enter into it. But, cannot a Jew enter into God's rest then, if a Jew keeps the Sabbath? NO! What Jew believes that Jesus is the Christ? What if, an atheist rests upon the seventh day of the week? This does not equate to Sabbath keeping. A Jew, with all their ceremonies, and strict rules cannot keep the Sabbath because of their unbelief. You must be a believer to truly keep the Sabbath.

Isaiah 58:13-14 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

You must delight yourself in the Sabbath. You must delight yourself in the true God to be keeping the Sabbath. You must honor God upon the Sabbath. You must truly delight yourself in the Lord to be keeping the Sabbath. Without this, the acts done upon the Sabbath are nothing but rites, ceremonies, and traditions. This is showing how the heart must keep the Sabbath, and not just the outward physical flesh. But does keeping the Sabbath truly in heart do away with the keeping of Sabbath? Does not committing adultery in your heart do away with the adultery commandment? No, absolutely not. You are not free to transgress the commandment of adultery, because you feel that "in your heart" you are keeping it. No, you are still required to keep the commandment.

A true believer delights himself in the Lord. Because of this, the believer enters into God's rest. The true believer believes that God's rest "remaineth" as God says. Literally, they believe, and therefore enter into rest. Those who do not believe the Lord, do not enter into rest. They literally do not believe it "remaineth" but that it 'perisheth'.

The word rest in Hebrews 4:9 literally takes the form of the word "Sabbath" that we be not confused. It is "a keeping Sabbath" or the act of keeping Sabbath that still remains to the believers. That which God did upon the seventh day, for man, still remains to man this very day. That blessed day to delight ourselves in the Lord still remains for us, and shall remain for all eternity.

Isaiah 66:22-23 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Believe and keep Sabbath now, and you shall rest now, and forever. But, disbelieve, and break Sabbath now, ye shall have no chance to keep Sabbath in heaven. You shall have forfeited the privilege, by rejecting the privilege of entering into God's rest here and now.

 

[justaname]

Keeth, Phenom, Raenes...

Another Scripture...
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." - Galatians 5:14

And again...
9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. - Romans 13:9-10

So Jesus teaches it and Paul affirms it...you should submit to it...love fulfills the Law including all that Jesus taught and commanded. If for you love does not, then you do not understand love. We have been set free from the Law and have been given the Spirit.

In the Romans passage Paul is specifically speaking of the 10, and he adds...and any other commandment.

The 10 are apportioned to the 613 which are apportioned to the Old Covenant.