zeke25
New Member
Phoneman777,Phoneman777 said:I. Why would you elevate any portion of Scripture above another? Indeed man will not live on bread alone but on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
Jesus elevated Scripture above other Scripture, did He not? “On these two commandments (Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV, Leviticus 19:17 KJV) hang all the law and the prophets." (Matthew 22:40 KJV)
The fact that Jesus considers God's very own commands to love Him and others to be that which every other Scripture ("the Law and the Prophets") is subordinate is undeniable, and the first four of the Ten commandments prove your love for God and the last six, your love for your neighbor.
II. Let me ask do you worship the commands of God given to a sanctified people for His namesake or do you worship the God that gave them?
“Know ye not to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether sin (“transgression of the law” - 1 John 3:4 KJV) unto death or obedience unto righteousness”. (Romans 6:16 KJV)
A person can claim allegiance to Jesus all he wants but the proof is obedient surrender. "Why call ye Me, Lord Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46 KJV)
III. The commands written on stone are the ministry of death.
The Ten Commandments are indeed a ministry of death to those who attempt to gain salvation by them, but a “Law of Liberty” to New Covenant Christians who “speak and do” them by His grace because they are written on their hearts. (James 2:10-12 KJV) (2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV) (Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV)
IV. This is the Law of Moses, the Old Covenant.
If you are correct that the Law of Moses was the Old Covenant, then we should have no problem replacing the word “law” with “Old Covenant” in Romans 3:31 KJV, right? Let's try it:
“Do we then make void the (Old Covenant) through grace? God forbid, we establish the (Old Covenant).” Uh, no...the law is most certainly not the Old Covenant.
A covenant is "an agreement between two parties based on mutual promises":
[SIZE=9pt]The problem was not the Ten Commandment law, which is "holy, just, and good" - it was the promises of the people which were faulty. The New Covenant is based on "better promises", not exemption from obedience: [/SIZE]
- God said, “Obey Me and I'll bless you."
- The Israelites said, “All that the Lord has spoken we shall do and be obedient". They failed in their self assurance, not recognizing that "apart from Me ye can do nothing".
[SIZE=9pt]So, you see that the law was merely a component of the Old Covenant, not the Old Covenant itself, and God Himself says it is a component of the New Covenant which the Holy Spirit writes on the hearts of those who partake of it. (Hebrews 8:8-10 KJV, 2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV)[/SIZE]
- God: "Keep My law and I'll bless you, and BTW if you surrender to Me I'm going to come into your heart and keep it for you and give you credit for what I have done."
- Us: "Praise God from Whom all blessings flow and thank you, dear Lord, for the Cross which is both pardon for sin and the power to live a holy life which is my reasonable service!" (Romans 12:1 KJV)
Soap box time:
This entire debate is IMHO silly. No Christian will ever claim that they are at liberty to fornicate, sleep with their sister in law, steal, lie, blaspheme, engage in idolatry, dishonor their parents, covet, kill, or hold Satan above God Almighty, but because of the Sabbath (*sigh*)... If people worked as hard figuring out how to keep the Ten Commandments as they do trying to get around them, the jails would be empty, marriages would last a lifetime, bars on windows and doors would disappear, and it is no wonder that criminals don't feel a need to obey the law when they see so-called “Christians” claiming that they are exempt from God's law.
The only foundation in need of overhaul is your foundation, which is built upon sin unto death instead of obedience unto righteousness.
Let me get this straight. You are building your foundation of the mistaken premise that...
(1) The sabbath was begun during creation week - with absolutely no mention of the sabbath until 2 ½ thousands years after creation week.
(2) Rabbinic Judaism teaches that a day begins at sunset (and that's their business if they want to follow that false path), when the Bible clearly teaches that a day begins at sunrise.
(3) Abraham obeyed the Law of Moses even though it had not been written yet.
(4) From Adam to the present day that we all must observe the physical sabbath that has been nailed to His tree, when we have been freed from that requirement.
(5) You and yours have manufactured a new non-biblical doctrine of the "ministry of death" and inserted into the Scriptures to redefine what is plainly written.
(6) etc.
Have I got this right? Why do you ignore the obvious and attempt to condemn to hell the Body of Christ who has been freed from the Law of Sin and Death. Take a look at what axehead and dan57 just said. It is really very easy. They have summed it all up very nicely. They are speaking the truth.
Is it our freedom in Christ that you hate so much? A freedom that you have an invitation to enjoy. Why have you taken the position of the Judaizers, instead of the offer that Christ has made to you?
Zeke25
Phoneman777,
Here is a short story to explain what you are trying to do. You are like the foreman (a Judaizer) in this story.
I hire a man to dig a ditch for me. While he is digging Christ shows up. Christ says to the man, I’ll finish this job for you. When Christ finished digging the ditch he dismisses the man and tells him he is no longer needed, the job is done. So, the man goes away. Work is honorable and there is glory in it, but a completed job has greater glory. The whole purpose of the hired man was to complete a job. But the job was too big, he never would have completed it if Christ hadn’t come along and done it for him.
Then my foreman shows up and is very upset. He says to Christ, “Where is the man hired to dig the ditch?” Christ said, I fulfilled his requirements, I finished the ditch, the job is done, he was no longer needed, and I dismissed him. The foreman was wroth. He sought out the man and brought him back and told him to get back to work. But he had no work to get back to. So, he just started digging useless ditches all over the place. The foreman, having no understanding, was very happy. The foreman looked at Christ and said, “See, now we don’t need You!” You can go away, I have my workman back.
Zeke25