Sabbath-Keeping

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zeke25

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Phoneman777 said:
I. Why would you elevate any portion of Scripture above another? Indeed man will not live on bread alone but on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
Jesus elevated Scripture above other Scripture, did He not? “On these two commandments (Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV, Leviticus 19:17 KJV) hang all the law and the prophets." (Matthew 22:40 KJV)
The fact that Jesus considers God's very own commands to love Him and others to be that which every other Scripture ("the Law and the Prophets") is subordinate is undeniable, and the first four of the Ten commandments prove your love for God and the last six, your love for your neighbor.

II. Let me ask do you worship the commands of God given to a sanctified people for His namesake or do you worship the God that gave them?
“Know ye not to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether sin (“transgression of the law” - 1 John 3:4 KJV) unto death or obedience unto righteousness”. (Romans 6:16 KJV)
A person can claim allegiance to Jesus all he wants but the proof is obedient surrender. "Why call ye Me, Lord Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46 KJV)

III. The commands written on stone are the ministry of death.
The Ten Commandments are indeed a ministry of death to those who attempt to gain salvation by them, but a “Law of Liberty” to New Covenant Christians who “speak and do” them by His grace because they are written on their hearts. (James 2:10-12 KJV) (2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV) (Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV)

IV. This is the Law of Moses, the Old Covenant.
If you are correct that the Law of Moses was the Old Covenant, then we should have no problem replacing the word “law” with “Old Covenant” in Romans 3:31 KJV, right? Let's try it:

“Do we then make void the (Old Covenant) through grace? God forbid, we establish the (Old Covenant).” Uh, no...the law is most certainly not the Old Covenant.

A covenant is "an agreement between two parties based on mutual promises":
  • God said, “Obey Me and I'll bless you."
  • The Israelites said, “All that the Lord has spoken we shall do and be obedient". They failed in their self assurance, not recognizing that "apart from Me ye can do nothing".
[SIZE=9pt]The problem was not the Ten Commandment law, which is "holy, just, and good" - it was the promises of the people which were faulty. The New Covenant is based on "better promises", not exemption from obedience: [/SIZE]
  • God: "Keep My law and I'll bless you, and BTW if you surrender to Me I'm going to come into your heart and keep it for you and give you credit for what I have done."
  • Us: "Praise God from Whom all blessings flow and thank you, dear Lord, for the Cross which is both pardon for sin and the power to live a holy life which is my reasonable service!" (Romans 12:1 KJV)
[SIZE=9pt]So, you see that the law was merely a component of the Old Covenant, not the Old Covenant itself, and God Himself says it is a component of the New Covenant which the Holy Spirit writes on the hearts of those who partake of it. (Hebrews 8:8-10 KJV, 2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV)[/SIZE]

Soap box time:
This entire debate is IMHO silly. No Christian will ever claim that they are at liberty to fornicate, sleep with their sister in law, steal, lie, blaspheme, engage in idolatry, dishonor their parents, covet, kill, or hold Satan above God Almighty, but because of the Sabbath (*sigh*)... If people worked as hard figuring out how to keep the Ten Commandments as they do trying to get around them, the jails would be empty, marriages would last a lifetime, bars on windows and doors would disappear, and it is no wonder that criminals don't feel a need to obey the law when they see so-called “Christians” claiming that they are exempt from God's law.

The only foundation in need of overhaul is your foundation, which is built upon sin unto death instead of obedience unto righteousness.
Phoneman777,

Let me get this straight. You are building your foundation of the mistaken premise that...

(1) The sabbath was begun during creation week - with absolutely no mention of the sabbath until 2 ½ thousands years after creation week.

(2) Rabbinic Judaism teaches that a day begins at sunset (and that's their business if they want to follow that false path), when the Bible clearly teaches that a day begins at sunrise.

(3) Abraham obeyed the Law of Moses even though it had not been written yet.

(4) From Adam to the present day that we all must observe the physical sabbath that has been nailed to His tree, when we have been freed from that requirement.

(5) You and yours have manufactured a new non-biblical doctrine of the "ministry of death" and inserted into the Scriptures to redefine what is plainly written.

(6) etc.

Have I got this right? Why do you ignore the obvious and attempt to condemn to hell the Body of Christ who has been freed from the Law of Sin and Death. Take a look at what axehead and dan57 just said. It is really very easy. They have summed it all up very nicely. They are speaking the truth.

Is it our freedom in Christ that you hate so much? A freedom that you have an invitation to enjoy. Why have you taken the position of the Judaizers, instead of the offer that Christ has made to you?

Zeke25

Phoneman777,

Here is a short story to explain what you are trying to do. You are like the foreman (a Judaizer) in this story.

I hire a man to dig a ditch for me. While he is digging Christ shows up. Christ says to the man, I’ll finish this job for you. When Christ finished digging the ditch he dismisses the man and tells him he is no longer needed, the job is done. So, the man goes away. Work is honorable and there is glory in it, but a completed job has greater glory. The whole purpose of the hired man was to complete a job. But the job was too big, he never would have completed it if Christ hadn’t come along and done it for him.

Then my foreman shows up and is very upset. He says to Christ, “Where is the man hired to dig the ditch?” Christ said, I fulfilled his requirements, I finished the ditch, the job is done, he was no longer needed, and I dismissed him. The foreman was wroth. He sought out the man and brought him back and told him to get back to work. But he had no work to get back to. So, he just started digging useless ditches all over the place. The foreman, having no understanding, was very happy. The foreman looked at Christ and said, “See, now we don’t need You!” You can go away, I have my workman back.

Zeke25
 

JimParker

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Mar 31, 2015
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Phoneman777 said:
I. Why would you elevate any portion of Scripture above another? Indeed man will not live on bread alone but on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
Jesus elevated Scripture above other Scripture, did He not? “On these two commandments (Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV, Leviticus 19:17 KJV) hang all the law and the prophets." (Matthew 22:40 KJV)
The fact that Jesus considers God's very own commands to love Him and others to be that which every other Scripture ("the Law and the Prophets") is subordinate is undeniable, and the first four of the Ten commandments prove your love for God and the last six, your love for your neighbor.

II. Let me ask do you worship the commands of God given to a sanctified people for His namesake or do you worship the God that gave them?
“Know ye not to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether sin (“transgression of the law” - 1 John 3:4 KJV) unto death or obedience unto righteousness”. (Romans 6:16 KJV)
A person can claim allegiance to Jesus all he wants but the proof is obedient surrender. "Why call ye Me, Lord Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46 KJV)

III. The commands written on stone are the ministry of death.
The Ten Commandments are indeed a ministry of death to those who attempt to gain salvation by them, but a “Law of Liberty” to New Covenant Christians who “speak and do” them by His grace because they are written on their hearts. (James 2:10-12 KJV) (2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV) (Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV)

IV. This is the Law of Moses, the Old Covenant.
If you are correct that the Law of Moses was the Old Covenant, then we should have no problem replacing the word “law” with “Old Covenant” in Romans 3:31 KJV, right? Let's try it:

“Do we then make void the (Old Covenant) through grace? God forbid, we establish the (Old Covenant).” Uh, no...the law is most certainly not the Old Covenant.

A covenant is "an agreement between two parties based on mutual promises":
  • God said, “Obey Me and I'll bless you."
  • The Israelites said, “All that the Lord has spoken we shall do and be obedient". They failed in their self assurance, not recognizing that "apart from Me ye can do nothing".
[SIZE=9pt]The problem was not the Ten Commandment law, which is "holy, just, and good" - it was the promises of the people which were faulty. The New Covenant is based on "better promises", not exemption from obedience: [/SIZE]
  • God: "Keep My law and I'll bless you, and BTW if you surrender to Me I'm going to come into your heart and keep it for you and give you credit for what I have done."
  • Us: "Praise God from Whom all blessings flow and thank you, dear Lord, for the Cross which is both pardon for sin and the power to live a holy life which is my reasonable service!" (Romans 12:1 KJV)
[SIZE=9pt]So, you see that the law was merely a component of the Old Covenant, not the Old Covenant itself, and God Himself says it is a component of the New Covenant which the Holy Spirit writes on the hearts of those who partake of it. (Hebrews 8:8-10 KJV, 2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV)[/SIZE]

Soap box time:
This entire debate is IMHO silly. No Christian will ever claim that they are at liberty to fornicate, sleep with their sister in law, steal, lie, blaspheme, engage in idolatry, dishonor their parents, covet, kill, or hold Satan above God Almighty, but because of the Sabbath (*sigh*)... If people worked as hard figuring out how to keep the Ten Commandments as they do trying to get around them, the jails would be empty, marriages would last a lifetime, bars on windows and doors would disappear, and it is no wonder that criminals don't feel a need to obey the law when they see so-called “Christians” claiming that they are exempt from God's law.

The only foundation in need of overhaul is your foundation, which is built upon sin unto death instead of obedience unto righteousness.
You apparently meant to send this to someone else but sent it to me..........twice.

Maybe there's someone in the forum who can help you operate it properly. I'm too new.
 

Phoneman777

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zeke25 said:
Phoneman777,

Let me get this straight. You are building your foundation of the mistaken premise that...

(1) The sabbath was begun during creation week - with absolutely no mention of the sabbath until 2 ½ thousands years after creation week.

(2) Rabbinic Judaism teaches that a day begins at sunset (and that's their business if they want to follow that false path), when the Bible clearly teaches that a day begins at sunrise.

(3) Abraham obeyed the Law of Moses even though it had not been written yet.

(4) From Adam to the present day that we all must observe the physical sabbath that has been nailed to His tree, when we have been freed from that requirement.

(5) You and yours have manufactured a new non-biblical doctrine of the "ministry of death" and inserted into the Scriptures to redefine what is plainly written.

(6) etc.

Have I got this right? Why do you ignore the obvious and attempt to condemn to hell the Body of Christ who has been freed from the Law of Sin and Death. Take a look at what axehead and dan57 just said. It is really very easy. They have summed it all up very nicely. They are speaking the truth.

Is it our freedom in Christ that you hate so much? A freedom that you have an invitation to enjoy. Why have you taken the position of the Judaizers, instead of the offer that Christ has made to you?

Zeke25

Phoneman777,

Here is a short story to explain what you are trying to do. You are like the foreman (a Judaizer) in this story.

I hire a man to dig a ditch for me. While he is digging Christ shows up. Christ says to the man, I’ll finish this job for you. When Christ finished digging the ditch he dismisses the man and tells him he is no longer needed, the job is done. So, the man goes away. Work is honorable and there is glory in it, but a completed job has greater glory. The whole purpose of the hired man was to complete a job. But the job was too big, he never would have completed it if Christ hadn’t come along and done it for him.

Then my foreman shows up and is very upset. He says to Christ, “Where is the man hired to dig the ditch?” Christ said, I fulfilled his requirements, I finished the ditch, the job is done, he was no longer needed, and I dismissed him. The foreman was wroth. He sought out the man and brought him back and told him to get back to work. But he had no work to get back to. So, he just started digging useless ditches all over the place. The foreman, having no understanding, was very happy. The foreman looked at Christ and said, “See, now we don’t need You!” You can go away, I have my workman back.

Zeke25
Zeke, are you currently living contrary to the Ten Commandments? If so, there's power in the blood of Christ. Victory can be had over lying, stealing, killing (anger without just cause), adultery (looking lustfully), pornography, and any other sin. Christ will never turn away any of us who want to obey Him but are powerless to resist Satan. He will give the least one of us victory over temptation and much rejoicing in heaven will follow as Satan flees. Let's not bring shame and reproach to that throne as Satan shakes his finger at us while asking God, "Is this the one who claims to love you so much? Look what I just got him to do!"
 

justaname

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Keeth said:

I didn't elevate one portion of scripture above another, God did. God did not allow humanity to author the Ten Commandments by mouth or writing even by inspiration or vision as He did all the rest. He came down to earth in person and personally spoke and wrote it for us. This makes it different than all other scripture which was by inspiration or a vision from God. I'm not the one ignoring the obvious here. I do not negate the words of Christ pertaining to man living by every word which proceeds out of the mouth of God, but simply point out a distinction within the same which God Himself made.


What kind of question is that? What does it pertain too? Do you mean to say one can worship God while ignoring what He has commanded? Who worships the commands of God, rather than God HImself? Is it not those who make their observance their salvation? No one can be saved by keeping God's commandments, but a great many can and will be lost by ignoring them.


Just what do you think the righteousness of Christ is my freind? Christ perfectly obeyed the commandments of God in our fallen human flesh, because we could not. He did not do this so we could or would continue to ignore God's commandments, but that we might join Him in keeping them.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 ¶ Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

We could not perform God's will in our sinful flesh, which is the keeping of the commandments of God, therefore Christ came to perform the same for us. Not that we might continue in sin, but that we might join Him in righteousness.

Rom 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Those who keep the law as a means of salvation neither do keep it or are saved, they are trying to live by the letter of the law. The law is spiritual, and its purpose is first to lead us to the cross of Christ where we might die the spiritual death which is unto salvation. If you do not understand this, then you do not understand the gospel of Jesus Christ. The law leads us to Jesus Christ and Him crucified unto salvation over and over again. The law is spiritual, it is those who try to be saved by it that make it of the letter instead of the Spirit. Its purpose never has been and never will be to save us, but rather to lead us to Christ who alone saves. It is the essential standard that leads to Christ.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The law is spiritual, we are carnal. It is the carnal heart that seeks salvation by the law, the spiritual heart is lead to the cross by the law. It responds to the conviction of the law by the Holy Spirit of God, by seeking the promised Messiah. Not that the law can continue to be ignored or used improperly, but that it might be obeyed by submission to and by Christ who alone ever did or will fulfill it. Those who refuse to die the death of Christ though, will not either have the life of Christ in their stead.

Rom 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Those who do away with the law, do away with the conviction of the Holy Spirit of God regarding sin. Thus they will not seek forgiveness or repentance according to the Spirit, or obtain the same. Dying in Christ that He might live within is not a one time experience, it is the continual experience of the saved. Those who do away with the law, do away with that which ever convicts them of their need for Christ in both death and life.

2Cor 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. 11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Those who will not die with Christ, will not have His life within them either. Those who ignore the law, will not be lead to the cross by it either.


Even if what you are proposing were true, do you think they caught God by surprise on this one? Do you think He didn't know that they would be afraid and tell Moses to speak to them instead of God? Of course He did, and then He knew also that He would not speak the civil and or ceremonial laws of Israel to them with his own mouth. Nevertheless, it is highly unlikely that the scenario played out as you suggest. What do you think the Israelites did, do you actually think that they interupted God while He was speaking and told Moses to tell God to speak through him to them and not to speak to them Himself? Get a grip, God was already done speaking to them, which is why they had a chance to ask Moses to speak with them instead of God. Just because they asked for this when God stopped speaking, doesn't mean that God intended to go on speaking to them in the frist place. To the contrary, I think it absurd to believe that they interupted God and told Him not to speak to them. This would not have gone over well at all.

Once some Israelites touched the arch of God when and how they should not have and they were immediately destroyed. Once two of the HIgh Priests sons burned incense when and where they were not supposed to, and they were immediately destoryed. Here now you think all Israel interupted God while He was speaking while the mountain He was upon was shaking, burning, and smoking like a chimney stack, without any consequence but God HImself stopping His speech to them. Really?
Interesting here is I make no demands of the text, simply read it as it flows...I will post a portion of it for you to read for yourself starting with Exodus 20:17.

“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
18All the people perceived the thunder and the lightning flashes and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood at a distance. 19Then they said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die.” 20Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid; for God has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin.” 21So the people stood at a distance, while Moses approached the thick cloud where God was.
22Then the LORD said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘You yourselves have seen that I have spoken to you from heaven. 23‘You shall not make other gods besides Me; gods of silver or gods of gold, you shall not make for yourselves. 24‘You shall make an altar of earth for Me, and you shall sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your oxen; in every place where I cause My name to be remembered, I will come to you and bless you.

Apparently you want to say after verse 17 God went home or something? This is not what the text presents though as explained in verse 21...the fact remains the Old Covenant is the Law of Moses which contains 613 mitzvot. The Scripture is clear in presenting this, eisegesis is the only way to see anything different.

God never elevated one portion of Scripture above another, only man does that.

Also you say only Jesus kept the 613 mitzvot perfectly, yet now that Jesus did we can too? This is not Scriptural either.

The letter of the Law is the written commands, the Law of Moses, 613 mitzvot. The Spirit of the Law is love. God is love. Jesus who is God fulfilled the Law. We are called to the same, love which is the fulfillment of the Law. (I can give verses for all of these statements)

I do not know how to show you how you say Jesus fulfilled the Law yet we are still required to keep it.
 

Phoneman777

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justaname said:
Interesting here is I make no demands of the text, simply read it as it flows...I will post a portion of it for you to read for yourself starting with Exodus 20:17.

“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
18All the people perceived the thunder and the lightning flashes and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood at a distance. 19Then they said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die.” 20Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid; for God has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin.” 21So the people stood at a distance, while Moses approached the thick cloud where God was.
22Then the LORD said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘You yourselves have seen that I have spoken to you from heaven. 23‘You shall not make other gods besides Me; gods of silver or gods of gold, you shall not make for yourselves. 24‘You shall make an altar of earth for Me, and you shall sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your oxen; in every place where I cause My name to be remembered, I will come to you and bless you.

Apparently you want to say after verse 17 God went home or something? This is not what the text presents though as explained in verse 21...the fact remains the Old Covenant is the Law of Moses which contains 613 mitzvot. The Scripture is clear in presenting this, eisegesis is the only way to see anything different.

God never elevated one portion of Scripture above another, only man does that.

Also you say only Jesus kept the 613 mitzvot perfectly, yet now that Jesus did we can too? This is not Scriptural either.

The letter of the Law is the written commands, the Law of Moses, 613 mitzvot. The Spirit of the Law is love. God is love. Jesus who is God fulfilled the Law. We are called to the same, love which is the fulfillment of the Law. (I can give verses for all of these statements)

I do not know how to show you how you say Jesus fulfilled the Law yet we are still required to keep it.
Justaname, is it fair to say that Jesus did elevate the Two Great Commandments (Deuteronomy 6:5 KJV and Leviticus 19:17 KJV) above the rest of Scripture by declaring that the rest "hang" or "depend" on the two?
 

justaname

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Phoneman777 said:
Justaname, is it fair to say that Jesus did elevate the Two Great Commandments (Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV and Leviticus 19:17 KJV) above the rest of Scripture by declaring that the rest "hang" or "depend" on the two?
No because the two commands do not nullify the whole of Scripture, simply illuminate it.

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
 

zeke25

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Phoneman777 said:
Zeke, are you currently living contrary to the Ten Commandments? If so, there's power in the blood of Christ. Victory can be had over lying, stealing, killing (anger without just cause), adultery (looking lustfully), pornography, and any other sin. Christ will never turn away any of us who want to obey Him but are powerless to resist Satan. He will give the least one of us victory over temptation and much rejoicing in heaven will follow as Satan flees. Let's not bring shame and reproach to that throne as Satan shakes his finger at us while asking God, "Is this the one who claims to love you so much? Look what I just got him to do!"
Phoneman777,

You are still avoiding a discussion of the Scriptures, without which you have no hope of discovering the truth. Galatians 5:4 describes your condition: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Zeke25
 

Phoneman777

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justaname said:
No because the two commands do not nullify the whole of Scripture, simply illuminate it.

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
The way I see it, the Two are a summary of the Ten and the Ten are what illuminate the Two because the first four illuminate what it means to love God and the last six illuminate what it means to love thy neighbor.

If Jesus didn't intend to invest in the Two some higher degree of importance to which the highly important and wholly essential rest of Scripture depends, why did He use the word "great" which is always understood to distinguish between the "not so great"?

zeke25 said:
Phoneman777,

You are still avoiding a discussion of the Scriptures, without which you have no hope of discovering the truth. Galatians 5:4 describes your condition: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Zeke25
Zeke, in which post have I claimed that we are justified by keeping the law, an impossibility according to Jesus in Luke 17:10 KJV? Do you hurl these false accusations at me because you can't stand the idea of repenting from that which made necessary the death of Jesus on the Cross in the first place? Which of the Ten Commandments is a New Covenant Christian allowed to break?
 

zeke25

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Phoneman777 said:
The way I see it, the Two are a summary of the Ten and the Ten are what illuminate the Two because the first four illuminate what it means to love God and the last six illuminate what it means to love thy neighbor.

If Jesus didn't intend to invest in the Two some higher degree of importance to which the highly important and wholly essential rest of Scripture depends, why did He use the word "great" which is always understood to distinguish between the "not so great"?

Zeke, in which post have I claimed that we are justified by keeping the law, an impossibility according to Jesus in Luke 17:10 KJV? Do you hurl these false accusations at me because you can't stand the idea of repenting from that which made necessary the death of Jesus on the Cross in the first place? Which of the Ten Commandments is a New Covenant Christian allowed to break?
Phoneman777,

This is becoming a signature trait for you, quoting a Scripture that has nothing to do with what you say it does. Luke 17:10 does not talk about the law.

And you are most certainly trying to justify yourself by the keeping of the law. You want to keep the sabbath and that is part of the law.

Let's discuss a Scripture that does apply to this subject.

Deuteronomy 5:15 KJV, "And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that [Yahowah] thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore [Yahowah] thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day." As you can read in verse fifteen, God gave the command to the Hebrews to keep the sabbath day of rest after He brought them out of the land of Egypt 430 years after He brought them into Egypt. This was circa 1,500 BC. If anyone can find an earlier date that God told anyone to keep the sabbath, or even told anyone that there was such a thing as the sabbath then please share this Scripture with us. We need to know.

So, there is your dilemma. You, with no Scriptural support, claim the sabbath was given during creation week, when Dt 5:15 says that it was given by Moses as part of the Law. So, where was the sabbath given other than to Moses? Without answering this your entire house of cards fall. If you continue to refuse to engage the Scriptures you are given, there will be no further need to respond to your antichrist teachings.

Zeke25
 

Keeth

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Dan57 said:
God rested from all His work, this was what was acknowledged by observing the sabbath. But the sabbath (rest) was also an observance of what was promised. The Messiah ended God's rest by finishing His work on the cross.. We now rest in Christ, not on Saturday.. Imo, our spiritual rest can and is only found in Christ, you can physically rest any day you want. Those who put Christ on a shelf and worship the last day of the week instead, are missing the big picture. "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matthew 11:28). jmo
Who are you to judge that all who worship on the seventh day put Christ on a shelf the rest of the week? If this is true then I guess all who worship on the first day do likewise, correct? You do well to beleive that Chirst gives us rest for He most certainly does. You do not do well or rightly divide the word of God by makng this truth negate one of the commandments of God. Jesus Christ specifically addressed this issue and conclusively stated that He did not come to do away with any of the commandments, b ut rather to fulfill them. the He gicves a stiff warning against those who would teach men that any of the commandments have been done away with. Why will you ignore this? Or how do you reconcile it with your above statement?

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Phoneman777 said:
Zeke, Paul said to honor your father and mother, stop stealing, fornicating, coveting, etc. James says if you commit adultery or kill, you become a transgressor of the law. John said do not commit idolatry. Luke says the Sabbath was observed all throughout the book of Acts. Are all these false witnessing, purposeful deceivers as well?

Keeth, it's good to see that someone else correctly understands the relationship between law and grace. We are saved by grace but are judged by our works. Our obedience proves that the Savior dwells within us and, conversely, our rebellion proves that the "first radical" (as referred to by Saul Alinsky) dwells there. Jesus' death on the Cross is not a license for us to continue doing that which made necessary His death on the Cross in the first place. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

Catholicism teaches that the sinner's guilt of sin is removed by rites and rituals while he continues to be a slave to sin.

Apostate Protestantism teaches that the sinner's guilt of sin is removed by simply "believing" it has been removed while he continues to be a slave to sin.

The Bible teaches that one's guilt of sin is removed by the blood of Jesus and he is no longer a slave to sin. (Romans 6:14-16 KJV)
Agreed. I am far from perfect and do regularly battle with the old man, battles which I most certainly do not always win. I'm not going to reject the truth of scripture though, because I have not arrived yet. The goal is to be Christlike, and He was perfect, why would we desire anything less?
 

justaname

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Keeth said:
Who are you to judge that all who worship on the seventh day put Christ on a shelf the rest of the week? If this is true then I guess all who worship on the first day do likewise, correct? You do well to beleive that Chirst gives us rest for He most certainly does. You do not do well or rightly divide the word of God by makng this truth negate one of the commandments of God. Jesus Christ specifically addressed this issue and conclusively stated that He did not come to do away with any of the commandments, b ut rather to fulfill them. the He gicves a stiff warning against those who would teach men that any of the commandments have been done away with. Why will you ignore this? Or how do you reconcile it with your above statement?

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Within this context Jesus says "Law and the Prophets" meaning 613 mitzvot...

Perhaps Jesus is saying we should all be practicing Jews? Or perhaps His audience at this time was Jewish and not Christian...I think the latter.
 

Keeth

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Axehead said:
Hey, is it ok if I esteem every day the same? Seems like it is ok with the Holy Spirit as he inspired Paul to write the following:

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
The Ten Commandments are mentioned nowhere in Romans chapter 14. It talks about eating drinking and holy days. The commandments do not address eating and drinking, and there were many holy days other than the sabbath which the Jews observed. Since the commandments are not menitoned at all in the said chapter, it is not likely that the seventh day Sabbath of the commandments is what is being referred to. If it was it would have been a very simple thing to mention it. If you wish to make it about the seventh day Sabbath you are certainly free to beleive as you wish. Do you attend church on Sunday? If so, why? If it doesn't matter, why are Sunday keepers all over the place trying to make and enforce laws about Sunday to bind upon all?
 

Axehead

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Keeth said:
The Ten Commandments are mentioned nowhere in Romans chapter 14. It talks about eating drinking and holy days. The commandments do not address eating and drinking, and there were many holy days other than the sabbath which the Jews observed. Since the commandments are not menitoned at all in the said chapter, it is not likely that the seventh day Sabbath of the commandments is what is being referred to. If it was it would have been a very simple thing to mention it. If you wish to make it about the seventh day Sabbath you are certainly free to beleive as you wish. Do you attend church on Sunday? If so, why? If it doesn't matter, why are Sunday keepers all over the place trying to make and enforce laws about Sunday to bind upon all?

How do we keep the Sabbath then? Obviously, no one keeps it like they were taught to keep it in the OT so where is the transition teaching from the OT to the NT that tells us how it has been modified? Can you exactly lay out the rules for keeping the Sabbath? And which of the 3 Sabbaths are we to keep and if only one, where is the transition teaching between the covenants that teaches us the other 2 or not necessary? This transition teaching would be very helpful, because I have observed that many people seem to "keep the Sabbath" many ways.

Does keeping the Sabbath just mean going to a religious establishment on a specific day? Or are there deeper spiritual things that are to be taking place?

When the Hebrews spoke of the word Sabbath, it conveyed the thought of REST to them. What conveys REST to a Christian, today? I supposed you would get many answers, so let me ask, what is the REST that Jesus Christ and the Apostles talk about?

Mat_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat_11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

When Jesus says, "Come unto me", is He saying go to a religious establishment on a certain day? Is this a rest from physical work? Looks like Jesus explains Himself (rest for your souls).

Heb_4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Are we to labour to enter a religious establishment once a week?

Do you know what God's rest, is?

God did not rest because He was weary did He? God is Spirit, therefore cannot get tired. God rested because HIS WORK WAS FINISHED.

God said His work was very good and then He rested. No regrets, no do-overs. And this is the rest He offers us. It is not something He imposes on us (as you are doing) but in love and kindness He give it to us. Rest is not a task you normally lay on someone, it is not a burden as Jesus alludes to in Matt 11:28. If Jesus is giving spiritual rest in Matt 11:28, then He is not saying, "Come to me all you who are laboring hard with physical work..."

Rest is found in Christ because in Him the works of God are completed. In Him is the new creation and if any man be in Him, he is a new creature. On the cross, Jesus said, "It is finished," thus showing that in His cross we find that perfect rest that comes alone from the finished work of the Lord.

This rest is received (and gained) by faith because "we which believe do enter into the rest". Because by faith we have the finished, perfect work of the Lord as our own. "This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent". John 6:29.

Believing Him, means receiving Him; and since in Him the works of God are complete, it follows that by believing on Him we find rest. And this rest that Jesus gives is rest from sin and working to be acceptable by God (self-righteousness, which is sin).

Heb_4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

When you understand and receive this, other scriptures will open up to you.

Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Sabbath of the Lord, is the REST of the Lord.
 

justaname

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Phoneman777 said:
The way I see it, the Two are a summary of the Ten and the Ten are what illuminate the Two because the first four illuminate what it means to love God and the last six illuminate what it means to love thy neighbor.

If Jesus didn't intend to invest in the Two some higher degree of importance to which the highly important and wholly essential rest of Scripture depends, why did He use the word "great" which is always understood to distinguish between the "not so great"?

Zeke, in which post have I claimed that we are justified by keeping the law, an impossibility according to Jesus in Luke 17:10 KJV? Do you hurl these false accusations at me because you can't stand the idea of repenting from that which made necessary the death of Jesus on the Cross in the first place? Which of the Ten Commandments is a New Covenant Christian allowed to break?
So then to continue your analogy the 603 illuminate the 10 showing how to keep the Sabbath, how to wear your clothes, how to tend your land, how to wear your hair and the like.

Jesus used the word 'greatest' because that was the context of the question. It is plain language given through regular conversation. He did not elevate Scripture above Scripture.
 

Axehead

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One of the 10 commandments is "Thou shalt not commit adultery". I think we would all agree that this commandment is speaking of physical adultery and a Christian is obeying this commandment when he refuses to commit physical adultery.
Exo_20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

To my knowledge and by and large the Christian Church agrees that no one was ever accused of committing adultery (in the OT) when lusting in their heart towards a woman. Because, that is not the way it was understood in the OT.

Jesus also understood it this way when he talked about it.
Matt_5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But, Jesus amends this commandment by going further and giving a fuller commandment:
Matt_5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

So, we see that the 10 commandments were only a type of (outward) behavior that would be be revealed by the Spirit of God within the NT Believer as inward character (the character of Christ).

Many today do not commit adultery in the physical sense but are committing adultery in their heart. It is not enough for them to say that they are obeying the 10 commandments but not regarding Jesus' words in Matthew 5:28, at all.

Likewise, many attend a religious service on their "Sabbath", thereby obeying their rendition of "keeping the Sabbath", but are not really saved, and have not come into the Lord's true rest (true salvation).

One would be correct in thinking (according to the teachings of Jesus) that people can obey the 10 commandments and yet find themselves one day in Hell.

One would also be correct in wondering why people place so much emphasis on the type (law, outward) rather than the fulfillment (Spirit, inward- Jesus' words).

Are we leading people astray by telling them to just keep the 10 commandments but not revealing to them the fulfillment of the 10 commandments is the Spirit of God indwelling men who are now free to express His character in them through the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, which has set them free from sin and death (expressing the character of Satan, their former father)? (Rom 8:2)

Jesus is the fulfillment of the 10 commandments!!
He is our Purity, our Truthfulness, our Sabbath (Rest), our example of perfectly obeying and honoring His Father, etc, etc. His life now indwells us and we walk after His life (the Spirit) and turn away from our own (self, Satan's character).

John_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
 

Phoneman777

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justaname said:
So then to continue your analogy the 603 illuminate the 10 showing how to keep the Sabbath, how to wear your clothes, how to tend your land, how to wear your hair and the like.

Jesus used the word 'greatest' because that was the context of the question. It is plain language given through regular conversation. He did not elevate Scripture above Scripture.
Yes, the Mosaic illuminated the Ten which illuminate the Two which illuminate God because GOD IS LOVE. But, the Mosaic was "added because of transgression until the Seed should come." "Added until the Seed should come."

Please recognize this monumental point:
In order to have "transgression", a law must first exist before it can be transgressed - a fact that even a blind man can see.

So, then, a law was transgressed, which then made necessary the addition of another law, until Christ was to come. NOTICE that the law that was to expire when "the Seed should come" is NOT referring to the first law that was "transgressed", but to the one that was "added".
What law did Adam and Eve break? The Ten Commandments! In eating the fruit:
  • they placed the Serpent above God by obeying him (Romans 6:16 KJV)
  • they stole what was forbidden for them to have
  • they lied about their guilt, blaming others
  • they dishonored their father
  • they coveted the fruit of knowledge of good and evil
  • they were unfaithful spiritually to God
  • they killed themselves spiritually and by their actions would have been immediately destroyed if the Lamb had not previously agreed to be our Substitute
  • they idolized their own wisdom and potential over what God intended for them
  • they blasphemed the name of God by bring reproach upon it by their sin, which is what we do when we sin
  • and they brought unrest upon the whole of Creation that was "good, good, very good", to which the Sabbath was meant as a memorial.
The Ten Commandments remain for all eternity, while the Mosaic law that "was added because of transgression" is the law that was nailed to the Cross
We learned in grade school English that "greatest" means the "best, most outstanding, largest, most notable, etc.", so how you have concluded that it means "same as everything else" is puzzling to me.

Axehead said:
One of the 10 commandments is "Thou shalt not commit adultery". I think we would all agree that this commandment is speaking of physical adultery and a Christian is obeying this commandment when he refuses to commit physical adultery.
Exo_20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

To my knowledge and by and large the Christian Church agrees that no one was ever accused of committing adultery (in the OT) when lusting in their heart towards a woman. Because, that is not the way it was understood in the OT.

Jesus also understood it this way when he talked about it.
Matt_5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But, Jesus amends this commandment by going further and giving a fuller commandment:
Matt_5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

So, we see that the 10 commandments were only a type of (outward) behavior that would be be revealed by the Spirit of God within the NT Believer as inward character (the character of Christ).

Many today do not commit adultery in the physical sense but are committing adultery in their heart. It is not enough for them to say that they are obeying the 10 commandments but not regarding Jesus' words in Matthew 5:28, at all.

Likewise, many attend a religious service on their "Sabbath", thereby obeying their rendition of "keeping the Sabbath", but are not really saved, and have not come into the Lord's true rest (true salvation).

One would be correct in thinking (according to the teachings of Jesus) that people can obey the 10 commandments and yet find themselves one day in Hell.

One would also be correct in wondering why people place so much emphasis on the type (law, outward) rather than the fulfillment (Spirit, inward- Jesus' words).

Are we leading people astray by telling them to just keep the 10 commandments but not revealing to them the fulfillment of the 10 commandments is the Spirit of God indwelling men who are now free to express His character in them through the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, which has set them free from sin and death (expressing the character of Satan, their former father)? (Rom 8:2)

Jesus is the fulfillment of the 10 commandments!!
He is our Purity, our Truthfulness, our Sabbath (Rest), our example of perfectly obeying and honoring His Father, etc, etc. His life now indwells us and we walk after His life (the Spirit) and turn away from our own (self, Satan's character).

John_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
You are correct that Jesus "amended" but a more precise description of what He did is "magnified".
The Gospel prophet Isaiah wrote of Jesus, "The Lord is well pleased for His righteousness' sake. He will MAGNIFY the law and make it honorable." Isaiah 42:21 KJV

"Magnify" does not mean "do away with" or "change", it means "to make more clearly seen", just as in the case of a magnifying glass. Lust and hate are adultery and murder.

"Make it honorable", in that He provided a means by which the law is "able to be honored" - "honorable". It is the indwelling Spirit, without which no man is able to honor the law. Those who claim to love Jesus but keep not His commandments dishonor both Him and His law.
 

zeke25

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Phoneman777 said:
Phoneman777,

You are trying to slip under the radar I see.

Where's your answer to Dt.5:15 from post #209. Here is what I said:

"So, there is your dilemma. You, with no Scriptural support, claim the sabbath was given during creation week, when Dt 5:15 says that it was given by Moses as part of the Law. So, where was the sabbath given other than to Moses? Without answering this your entire house of cards fall. If you continue to refuse to engage the Scriptures you are given, there will be no further need to respond to your antichrist teachings."

So Phoneman777, except that you have a valid answer, you are exposed as a heretic and one who teaches antichrist material. You have no ability to discuss Scriptures and you ignore those that are inconvenient to you. I want to remind everyone who engages in conversation here, that I will willingly dialogue with anyone who thinks we should be obeying the Law. However, Phoneman777 is a different breed completely. He refuses to discuss any Scripture that proves him wrong, he continually makes false accusations against those who would hold him accountable, and is a flat out liar. I would call on all of you that are serious about serving the LORD to avoid wasting your time dialoging with him.

Zeke25
 

justaname

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Phoneman777 said:
Yes, the Mosaic illuminated the Ten which illuminate the Two which illuminate God because GOD IS LOVE. But, the Mosaic was "added because of transgression until the Seed should come." "Added until the Seed should come."

Please recognize this monumental point:
In order to have "transgression", a law must first exist before it can be transgressed - a fact that even a blind man can see.

So, then, a law was transgressed, which then made necessary the addition of another law, until Christ was to come. NOTICE that the law that was to expire when "the Seed should come" is NOT referring to the first law that was "transgressed", but to the one that was "added".
What law did Adam and Eve break? The Ten Commandments! In eating the fruit:
  • they placed the Serpent above God by obeying him (Romans 6:16 KJV)
  • they stole what was forbidden for them to have
  • they lied about their guilt, blaming others
  • they dishonored their father
  • they coveted the fruit of knowledge of good and evil
  • they were unfaithful spiritually to God
  • they killed themselves spiritually and by their actions would have been immediately destroyed if the Lamb had not previously agreed to be our Substitute
  • they idolized their own wisdom and potential over what God intended for them
  • they blasphemed the name of God by bring reproach upon it by their sin, which is what we do when we sin
  • and they brought unrest upon the whole of Creation that was "good, good, very good", to which the Sabbath was meant as a memorial.
The Ten Commandments remain for all eternity, while the Mosaic law that "was added because of transgression" is the law that was nailed to the Cross
We learned in grade school English that "greatest" means the "best, most outstanding, largest, most notable, etc.", so how you have concluded that it means "same as everything else" is puzzling to me.

You are correct that Jesus "amended" but a more precise description of what He did is "magnified".
The Gospel prophet Isaiah wrote of Jesus, "The Lord is well pleased for His righteousness' sake. He will MAGNIFY the law and make it honorable." Isaiah 42:21 KJV

"Magnify" does not mean "do away with" or "change", it means "to make more clearly seen", just as in the case of a magnifying glass. Lust and hate are adultery and murder.

"Make it honorable", in that He provided a means by which the law is "able to be honored" - "honorable". It is the indwelling Spirit, without which no man is able to honor the law. Those who claim to love Jesus but keep not His commandments dishonor both Him and His law.
You have generated your theory in error.

God is love. Anything other than love is a transgression against God and others. This is the Royal Law that is eternal, not the 10 commandments. Adam and Eve did not break the 10 commandments.

This is the command they broke.
Genesis 2:17
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

By disobeying this command they broke their perfect love for God.

Shalom
 

Axehead

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Phoneman777 said:
You are correct that Jesus "amended" but a more precise description of what He did is "magnified".
The Gospel prophet Isaiah wrote of Jesus, "The Lord is well pleased for His righteousness' sake. He will MAGNIFY the law and make it honorable." Isaiah 42:21 KJV

"Magnify" does not mean "do away with" or "change", it means "to make more clearly seen", just as in the case of a magnifying glass. Lust and hate are adultery and murder.

"Make it honorable", in that He provided a means by which the law is "able to be honored" - "honorable". It is the indwelling Spirit, without which no man is able to honor the law. Those who claim to love Jesus but keep not His commandments dishonor both Him and His law.
I can go with "magnify" the law. After all, that is "bible speak". Jesus did just that when He came. He fulfilled (magnified) the law. And He also demonstrated what fulfilling or magnifying the law, meant in His actions which were all motivated by love.

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Gal_6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Rom_13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

When Jesus was picking corn (working) on the Sabbath, He was motivated by love for his hungry disciples. He was working no ill towards them by allowing them to go hungry. Look at the many ways he broke the OT law. He travelled, and He worked, yet His works of love were the magnification of the law.

And just as we do not judge Christ or any Apostles for working or travelling on the Sabbath, we can't judge our fellow brothers and sisters who may be "picking corn" (working) on the Sabbath to provide for their family. If love is the fulfilling of the law, then this is the measuring stick now that Christ has come (Gal 5:13, one word, LOVE). In many cases, if one was not to work on the Sabbath, he might "worketh ill to his neighbor (family)" if he lost his job. It is not up to you or I to lead and guide another Believer as to what job they should have or not have. And just as we cannot judge Christ for working on the Sabbath, or judge our brothers for working on the Sabbath, we cannot judge that those who travel to religious buildings on the Sabbath are not saved. Because, as I said before, there are many that go to religious buildings on their Sabbath that do not know the Lord even though they have a "form of godliness". But, only the Lord knows "them that are His". 2 Tim 2:19.

Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

And I agree with justaname, the Royal Law is not the 10 commandments but Love. Love God and love thy neighbor.

Mat_25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
 

Phoneman777

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Axehead said:
I can go with "magnify" the law. After all, that is "bible speak". Jesus did just that when He came. He fulfilled (magnified) the law. And He also demonstrated what fulfilling or magnifying the law, meant in His actions which were all motivated by love.

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Gal_6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Rom_13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

When Jesus was picking corn (working) on the Sabbath, He was motivated by love for his hungry disciples. He was working no ill towards them by allowing them to go hungry. Look at the many ways he broke the OT law. He travelled, and He worked, yet His works of love were the magnification of the law.

And just as we do not judge Christ or any Apostles for working or travelling on the Sabbath, we can't judge our fellow brothers and sisters who may be "picking corn" (working) on the Sabbath to provide for their family. If love is the fulfilling of the law, then this is the measuring stick now that Christ has come (Gal 5:13, one word, LOVE). In many cases, if one was not to work on the Sabbath, he might "worketh ill to his neighbor (family)" if he lost his job. It is not up to you or I to lead and guide another Believer as to what job they should have or not have. And just as we cannot judge Christ for working on the Sabbath, or judge our brothers for working on the Sabbath, we cannot judge that those who travel to religious buildings on the Sabbath are not saved. Because, as I said before, there are many that go to religious buildings on their Sabbath that do not know the Lord even though they have a "form of godliness". But, only the Lord knows "them that are His". 2 Tim 2:19.

Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

And I agree with justaname, the Royal Law is not the 10 commandments but Love. Love God and love thy neighbor.

Mat_25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Jesus never broke the law (John 15:10 KJV) The only laws He ignored were the ones which didn't originate from Him. If He broke a law, He would have become a sinner because that's what sin is (1 John 3:4 KJV)
 
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