Sabbath-Keeping
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Jun2u
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justaname,
Sorry for this late response but my computer broke down.
I will now respond to your post #398 as I believe you ‘ve brought up spiritual truths and not know it.
Revelation 1:5: “And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.”
Re 19:11: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.”
There are many like scripture passages as above. I wanted to show that Jesus is the very ESSENCE of faith for I believe we do not have faith and it must be given from above, Jo 3:27. To demonstrate this spiritual truth let us substitute the name of Jesus for every word “faith” we find in your post #398.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only Jesus (faith) working through love. - Galatians 5:6
This is what Paul means through his usage. A working Jesus (faith). Or the work of Jesus (faith) in you. The work of Jesus (faith) is hope.
Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent." - John 6:29
As you can see Jesus (faith) is the work of God. God has given the measure of Jesus (faith). Here I believe we agree, yet the Scriptures say whosoever believes...
The term “whosoever” must be qualified and read in light of the Bible. This kind of belief is very much contradictory to Ro 3:10-12 and that means, you still have not understood the impact of Jo 6:44. And, that is one of many reasons why you and many others like you cannot see the Sabbath in relation with Salvation.
People somehow like to think and feel good that they can make any kind of contribution to their salvation while Scripture is so clear that Christ Jesus alone did all the work to save us!
It’s sad, so very sad, indeed.
Another example of...faith...
Eph 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through Jesus (faith); and that not of yourselves: it (Jesus) is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast”.
And, still another...
We read about the accounty of the woman in Lu 7:44-50. In this story, there is no indication the woman had any faith, yet Jesus in verse 50 said: “And he said to the woman, Thy Jesus (faith) hath saved thee; go in peace.” Again we substitute the name of Jesus in place of the word “faith.”
The above examples is how we ought to compare scripture with scripture and spiritual things with spiritual.
To God Be The Glory
Sorry for this late response but my computer broke down.
I will now respond to your post #398 as I believe you ‘ve brought up spiritual truths and not know it.
Revelation 1:5: “And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.”
Re 19:11: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.”
There are many like scripture passages as above. I wanted to show that Jesus is the very ESSENCE of faith for I believe we do not have faith and it must be given from above, Jo 3:27. To demonstrate this spiritual truth let us substitute the name of Jesus for every word “faith” we find in your post #398.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only Jesus (faith) working through love. - Galatians 5:6
This is what Paul means through his usage. A working Jesus (faith). Or the work of Jesus (faith) in you. The work of Jesus (faith) is hope.
Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent." - John 6:29
As you can see Jesus (faith) is the work of God. God has given the measure of Jesus (faith). Here I believe we agree, yet the Scriptures say whosoever believes...
The term “whosoever” must be qualified and read in light of the Bible. This kind of belief is very much contradictory to Ro 3:10-12 and that means, you still have not understood the impact of Jo 6:44. And, that is one of many reasons why you and many others like you cannot see the Sabbath in relation with Salvation.
People somehow like to think and feel good that they can make any kind of contribution to their salvation while Scripture is so clear that Christ Jesus alone did all the work to save us!
It’s sad, so very sad, indeed.
Another example of...faith...
Eph 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through Jesus (faith); and that not of yourselves: it (Jesus) is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast”.
And, still another...
We read about the accounty of the woman in Lu 7:44-50. In this story, there is no indication the woman had any faith, yet Jesus in verse 50 said: “And he said to the woman, Thy Jesus (faith) hath saved thee; go in peace.” Again we substitute the name of Jesus in place of the word “faith.”
The above examples is how we ought to compare scripture with scripture and spiritual things with spiritual.
To God Be The Glory
Phoneman777
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The "law of liberty" is a grievous prison to those who love sin, but freedom to those who are empowered by Jesus to obey it.zeke25 said:
Uppsala....quote What I am doing is using scripture to expose flaws in a theology that contradicts the Gospel - which teaches us that we are no longer under the Mosaic Covenant. If you on the other hand can provide scriptural evidence that we are still under that law, or that the 10 commandments were NOT a part of that covenant, then please do so!
- First, no-one is arguing that we are under any Mosaic covenant. That is not the point, thus we are not contradicting the gospel. If you can provide a quote of mine that explicitly claims we should subject ourselves to the laws of Moses such as circumcision or the slitting of throats of lambs for sacrifice, then please do so.
- Second, I have already provided scriptural evidence, twice, that explicitly says that those who are under the law are those who are not walking in the Spirit, therefore they are walking in the flesh. The particular text from Galatians that I used continued on to say that the works of the flesh are immoral, ungodly, unrighteous, and lawless. Many are in direct contravention of the Ten Commandments. I do not think it can be attributed to any form of linguistic or interpretive gymnastics to conclude that those who are 'under the law' are therefore not obedient to it.
- Thirdly, no-one is claiming that the Ten Commandments were not a part of the OC. But let us be clear on what a covenant actually is. It is an agreement between two parties, yes? Let me offer an analogy of where I am coming from. I give you $100. My agreement or promise to you is that if you can invest that $100 wisely, and earn interest on my behalf, I will protect and support everything you do, so long as you continue to invest wisely all the money I give. If you fail, I will remove my protection and support.
For a while you do well. Then you let me down. I warn you that if you continue I will remove my promise. You do well again for a while, but let me down again. This repeats for a long time, you trying and failing, me being patient and giving you time. But then time is finished. I come to collect my dues, and you have nothing to return to me but the original $100 which I give to another. You (not me) have broken the covenant, voiding my promise. Even though I gave you all my support and protection, you let me down. So I make a covenant with a new people, and pass on to them the very same 100$ I took from you.
The $100 represents the Ten Commandments. The promise of God is that He would protect Israel and establish them in the land and bring forth from them the Messiah. In support of this God gave them the laws of Moses. These laws were given because the Ten Commandments were not obeyed...given because of transgression. Because of sin. The laws of Moses , the Msaic law, was given as God's answer to transgression against the laws of God...if followed and understood correctly, they were to bring healing to the nation, to bring righteousness,to help in establishing loyalt and faithfulness. Circumcision, the sanctuary services, the feast days...all were shadows of Christ's ministry...they were the gospel in pictures for a nation that was destined for greatness, but ended in ignominy. The Messiah part was unconditional, because that part was a promise made to Adam and Eve...Israel being the tool to bring it about. The rest of God's promises re the land etc were all conditional on obedience. It was the laws of Moses ...as you put it the Mosaic law, that we are no longer obligated to follow. The Ten Commandments, and the attendant conditional promises (the New Covenant) of support, protection, and a future land to inherit in the future, is now given to " a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." Matt 21:43
I will try make this as simple as I can, since there is nothing complicated about God.
Us gentiles came to Chrst and God by grace through faith because of what Christ Did. Before His death and resserection we had no God, he belonged to the Jews, we are the other flock that Christ spoke of.
What is Grace, God has given us salvation through teh simple beliief that Christ has dies for and forgiven our Sin so we can go be with outr father. this means for it to remain garce we must,
1. Accept it for what it is a free gift. A gift is only a gift if you accept it without paying for it.
2. Not add any cost. Ie keeping the law. The moment we do that it is no longer Grace but works and by them you will surely perish.
Now the "law" does one thing it condemns mankind because it reminds us of sin, we are not perfect and in no way can keep the law, this is something the Jews still to this day do not understand.
If you keep one law you must keep them all, there is no picking and choosing it is all or nothing.
If you are not a Jew the law was never yours and never given to you., if you are trying to keep the law then you are trying to out do Christ, "YOU CANT" stop this insanity.
Either Christ has paid the price in full or you dont think He has so are trying to add to the price. Silly reasoning is it not.
Even saying three hail marys and 4 our fathers as penance is a slap in His face. What more does He need to do, was not His death enough for you.
In all His Love
Us gentiles came to Chrst and God by grace through faith because of what Christ Did. Before His death and resserection we had no God, he belonged to the Jews, we are the other flock that Christ spoke of.
What is Grace, God has given us salvation through teh simple beliief that Christ has dies for and forgiven our Sin so we can go be with outr father. this means for it to remain garce we must,
1. Accept it for what it is a free gift. A gift is only a gift if you accept it without paying for it.
2. Not add any cost. Ie keeping the law. The moment we do that it is no longer Grace but works and by them you will surely perish.
Now the "law" does one thing it condemns mankind because it reminds us of sin, we are not perfect and in no way can keep the law, this is something the Jews still to this day do not understand.
If you keep one law you must keep them all, there is no picking and choosing it is all or nothing.
If you are not a Jew the law was never yours and never given to you., if you are trying to keep the law then you are trying to out do Christ, "YOU CANT" stop this insanity.
Either Christ has paid the price in full or you dont think He has so are trying to add to the price. Silly reasoning is it not.
Even saying three hail marys and 4 our fathers as penance is a slap in His face. What more does He need to do, was not His death enough for you.
In all His Love
Phoneman777
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James speaks of "adultery" and "killing" as having to do with the "Law of Liberty" - the Ten Commandments - of which we will be judged (James 2:10-12 KJV) and John tells us that we know that we love the children of God when we love God and keep His commandments, which are not grievous (1 John 5:2-3 KJV).UppsalaDragby said:
Soon, in accordance with the last day prophecy of Psalm 94, the "throne of iniquity (shall) frameth mischief by a law" when the United States begins to enforce the Sunday laws that are already on the books and it is then that the Seal of God or Mark of the Beast will be affixed to our hearts or hands and all professed Christians who refuse to obey God will eventually hear Jesus say to them, "I never knew you. Depart from Me, ye that work lawlessness."
Phoneman777
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An apple trees doesn't produce apples in order to be an apple tree, it produces apples because it is an apple tree. Likewise, a Christian doesn't keep God's commandments in order to be saved, he keeps them because he is saved.mjrhealth said:
The Law of Moses has been nailed to the Cross, but the Ten Commandments "stand fast forever and ever" (Psalms 111:7-8 KJV) and I have repeatedly challenged those who claim that the Ten Commandments no longer apply to Christians to publicly state that we may freely break them: that we may worship false gods, engage in idolatry, blaspheme God, kill, commit adultery, steal, etc.
The silence of these gutless wonders is absolutely deafening. It is a stern rebuke to their reasoning. You can't simultaneously claim that we are free from any obligation to obey a law that we are not at liberty to disobey.
And just as I have pointed out time and time again, neither James nor John makes any mention of the "Ten Commandments". In fact, just as I have pointed out time and time again, John explicitly lays out what Gods commandments for us actually are. So why insert into scripture words that are not there???Phoneman777 said:
As far as I can see BOTH "adultry" and "killing" break the law of Christ.
So again, where are the answers to my questions???
Why are you unable to answer them?
Phoneman777
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Sounds like you believe one can have "faith" without being "faithful". To the contrary, those who refuse to be faithful actually have "dead faith", according to James.Jun2u said:
See phone man it is simple, There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, What did He say,
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Why because Love does not go out trying to do wrong. But for those who are not in Christ there wil lalways be condemnation, everytime the ysin they wil lfeel guilty and have to go repent because they have not accepetd the price He has paid. What Christ did is allow for our Flesh, you know this horrible thing we walk around in that burps and farts, that lusts and hates, that hungers than over eats, that spends all its life dying. I dont " feeL" condmened because I am in Christ, i will screw up till he changes me or I go to be with Him, but no longer has guilt got a hold on me because how can one be condemned if the ransom has being paid. But oh the enemy has so many christian wrapped up around his finger, feeling guilty all the time. The law was not mine was never mine was never given to me, i was given Love by his grace through His faith.
in all His Love
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Why because Love does not go out trying to do wrong. But for those who are not in Christ there wil lalways be condemnation, everytime the ysin they wil lfeel guilty and have to go repent because they have not accepetd the price He has paid. What Christ did is allow for our Flesh, you know this horrible thing we walk around in that burps and farts, that lusts and hates, that hungers than over eats, that spends all its life dying. I dont " feeL" condmened because I am in Christ, i will screw up till he changes me or I go to be with Him, but no longer has guilt got a hold on me because how can one be condemned if the ransom has being paid. But oh the enemy has so many christian wrapped up around his finger, feeling guilty all the time. The law was not mine was never mine was never given to me, i was given Love by his grace through His faith.
in all His Love
Phoneman777
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Yes, the Law of Christ is the Ten Commandments, seeing that Christ Himself was there at Mount Sinai writing them out on the tables of stone, so in this we are in agreement that "adultery" and "killing" are included in the "Law of Christ" aka "Law of God" aka "not the Law of Moses".UppsalaDragby said:
Why don't you publicly declare that we may break the Ten Commandments, if you really believe that they no longer apply to Christians?
Phoneman777
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You're reading from a version based on the corrupted Critical Greek Text which is the same text the Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation is based upon, and it leaves out a critical phrase which is included in the Textus Receptus Greek of the Protestant Reformation:mjrhealth said:
"...to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit."
Over and over, Scripture equates "walking with God" with "obeying His commandments" and it is only those who are empowered by Jesus to keep His commandments that are above condemnation. Those who claim to be above condemnation but continue to do that which condemns them are guilty of committing what David calls the "Great Transgression" - the sin of Presumption.
And if you can provide any verse in scripture that shows that the 10 commandments, rather than morality that breaks the Law of Christ, apply to Christians then please do so.brakelite said:
I can provide scriptures that show that the 10 commandments were a part of the , and scriptures that show that THAT coventant no longer applies to us...
So what's the problem???
And??? That is like saying that those you don't keep the speed limit are breaking the speed limit!! What you really need to do is provide scriptural evidence that there is anyone at all who keeps the Mosaic law, with or without the Spirit! What we can do is follow the law of Christ, something that scripure does NOT equate with keeping the 10 commandments. You need to somehow fuse that idea into scripture. I do not... I let scripture talk for itself.
And where does ANY verse in Galatians, or in the rest of the NT, suggest that we are under the 10 commandmants simply because we are encouraged not to be immoral, ungodly or unrighteous? You turn that argument around as if to say that anyone who claims that we are not under the 10 commandments are advocating immoral, ungodly and unrighteous behaviour... But that is TOTALLY incorrect!!
What we are saying is that we have a new coventant that is not based on an enumerated list of written laws, but upon the living and active incentives of the Holy Spirit. The former is not based on faith, but on human effort. The latter provides the kind of flexibility, compassion and love that takes human weaknesses into consideration and therefore is NOT burdensome, whereas the other is. The former stimulates prideful comparrisons between who "keeps" the law, and those who don't, whereas with the latter such pride is impossible.
You missunderstand what legalism is all about. You think that legalism is somehow disqualified altogether as long as one decouples salvation and eternal life from following a list of written commandments. But legalism is a MINDSET, not a loophole that SDAs provide in order to justify their doctrine!
Well that all sounded fine and dandy until you got to the part where you claimed that "the $100 represent the Ten Commandments". Where is that idea found in scripture? God NEVER made such a promise, and nether can you find anywhere in scripture where a commandments is defined as a promise!
This is ALWAYS the case with SDAs. You always need to redifine scripture in order to make it say what you want it to say. And in fact.. the "scriptural" accout that you provided actually proves the fact that the promise PRECEDED the law, rather than being equivalent to it. What the Jews did was fail to believe the promise and therefore, as a consequence of that, even failed to keep the commandments that God had given to them.. whether it following Moses, gathering manna, taking the land, or eventually the entire Mosiac covenant.
You also seem to assume here that the either the entire commission given to them has been passed on to us, or a subset of that, or that only the 10 commmandments, but you give absolutly no scriptural evidence of either. If we are NOT under the Mosaic coventant - something you claim to agree with - then we are NOT under ANY of the obligations made to the people who were under that covenant!
Assuredly, that covenant FORESHADOWED the new, but that in no way indicates we are under ANY of the OC laws - great or small! We have a FAR SUPERIOR covenant... learn to deal with that.
Firstly, Christ was there when the commandment to circumcise was given. So that alone shatters your feeble argument, as well as the fact that "adultery" and "killing" commonly break BOTH the New and Old covenants. So why pretend that you are proving some kind of point when you are not?Phoneman777 said:
And if my stance suggests that we "may break the Ten commandments" then please provide a quote that teaches us that...
I never "publically declare" things that I don't agree with and that are invented by someone else. So my appeal to you is not to be dishonest here, but to present the truth sincerely!
So once again, I have addressed and answered each and every one your questions whereas you ignore mine.
Why is that Phoneman???
Why?
2 Corinthians 3:3 says, "Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone....
.what was written on tables of stone? The Ten Commandments....therefore whatever was once written on stone is now written
....but in fleshy tables of the heart." What is the epistle of Christ? Hebrews 10:16 says, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;"
The "epistle of Christ" is His Law.
Jesus said in Matt. 5:18 Till heaven and earth pass. one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass fro
m the law, till all be fulfilled.
Last I looked this earth was still here. Therefore the law still stands. Not on stone, but in our hearts and minds.
.what was written on tables of stone? The Ten Commandments....therefore whatever was once written on stone is now written
....but in fleshy tables of the heart." What is the epistle of Christ? Hebrews 10:16 says, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;"
The "epistle of Christ" is His Law.
Jesus said in Matt. 5:18 Till heaven and earth pass. one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass fro
m the law, till all be fulfilled.
Last I looked this earth was still here. Therefore the law still stands. Not on stone, but in our hearts and minds.
Brakelite,brakelite said:
You said: "The "epistle of Christ" is His Law."
zeke: This means you missed it. His message to us was not the Torah or the Ten Commandments.
You said: "Therefore the law still stands."
Zeke: This is not that which the Scriptures teach. Romans 3:21 KJV, "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets[.]" And this doesn't even address the fact that the Torah was only given to the Hebrews beginning with Moses.
You're wasting your time brakelite. Those who understand the truth are never going to abandon that truth to follow you or your false gospel. Are you SDA? If so, will you denounce them and part from them, or stay with those who supported Hitler? A bad tree does not bear good fruit.
Zeke25
Oh I missed a bit, Do you walk after the Spirit or in the flesh,The law is for the flesh, Are you Jesus, do you think you have kept the law, no one could that is why Christ came. Yes the law will always stand it will be the Judge of those who have not accepted salvation through the works of Christ, The law tells me im not perfect,Christ died so I would not have to worry about my flesh and imperfections, thats why when in Him we have no condemnation, again how can there be judgement when the price has being paid. Has not the price for you being paid in full or do you choose to try add to that which He already did.Phoneman777 said:
And no it does not give anyone the right to break the law, Love does not choose to do those things even without the law,
In all His Love
Yes, that is what I said and I stand by it. I am not going to explain myself further...if you cannot see it you are spiritually blind.zeke25 said:
Again, yes, I admit, I said it. But so did Jesus. Read that text I provided again. And again. And again. And keep reading until you get it. The law still stands. I make no apologies, nor rebuttals. Again, if you cannot see that then you are calling Jesus a liar and you are blind.zeke25 said:
That scripture is not saying what you want it to say. Does it say the law is done away with? Does that text say that Christians are not required to obey the law? Does it say that the law no longer applies to man? No, it says none of those things. What it does say is that God chose mercy and grace to save mankind through faith, which is what the law and prophets said would happen. And as I have said before and will repeat one more time, to believe that God only intended for the descendants of Abraham from the time of Moses to not murder, steal, commit adultery, lie, covet, worship idols, etc etc, you clearly have not read the Bible thoroughly enough. Paul speaks of Gentiles who have not received the law. That's us right?zeke25 said:
Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.......
......26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
The above proves several things.
- The law still stands.
- It is written in the heart of both Gentile and converted Jew.
- The law can be obeyed.It becomes a natural expression of the faith of the born again Christian.
- The law was given to Jew and Gentile...the Gentile becomes a spiritual Jew when upon conversion...thus the law applies to him.
- The verses in between those which I quoted reveal unequivocally which law Paul is speaking about.
Good grief Zeke, you think I want people to follow me? Far out man, that's the last thing I want people to do. Follow Jesus. He kept the Sabbath. Even in death.zeke25 said:
Commandment # 1 Exodus 20:3 Matthew 4:10
Commandment # 2 Exodus 20:4-6 1John 5:21 & Acts 17:29
Commandment # 3 Exodus 20:7 1Timothy 6:1
Commandment # 5 Exodus 20:12 Matthew 19:19
Commandment # 6 Exodus 20:13 Romans 13:9
Commandment # 7 Exodus 20:14 Matthew 19:18
Commandment # 8 Exodus 20:15 Romans 13:9
Commandment # 9 Exodus 20:16 Romans 13:9
Commandment # 10 Exodus 20:17 Romans 7:7
So when was the Sabbath done away with?
Finally, I will address your suggestion that I leave the SDA church because of the poor record of the German branch of that church in co-operating and supporting Nazi Germany. I won't, and I will tell you why.
Because the SDA church teaches, practices, and believes the Christian faith in such a manner that relates closer to the NT concept of faith and fruit filled works as a result of that faith better than any other church on the planet. That is why God is blessing that church more than any other church on the planet. That is why God is honoring the Adventist faith with the largest number of converts of any non-Catholic Christian faith on the planet. Unfortunately, the church is made up of people, And people are sadly flawed, and they make mistakes, sometimes very serious ones. Like the church in Germany did in the 1930s and 40s. Like some individual churches do everywhere, regardless of denomination. I will leave my local SDA church when she stops teaching truth in favor of the compromising liberal namby-pamby whitewashed bunkum dished up elsewhere by evangelicals and ecumenicism. And if the headquarters of the SDA church changes its fundamental doctrines to the point of being unbiblical, like adopting the heresy of Sunday sacredness or the voiding of Sabbath keeping, I will object from the rooftops, and if my local church follows suit, I will leave then, but I will continue to practice, and believe what I now am convinced is good sound Biblical truth, and until someone somewhere can convince me otherwise, I will continue to do so. Thus far your efforts are a resounding failure. Not least because having no Biblical grounds for objection, you need to bring forth historical grievances as grounds for dividing me from truth.
brakelite,brakelite said:
There is no truth in you. You have no Scriptures to support your false doctrines, only speculation and wishful thinking. You have been given an avalanche of Scriptures that shows the Bible proves your false doctrines to be wrong. You refuse to submit to the truth. BTW, you still never address the issues put before you. We're through here, I'm going to go talk to a brick wall, it will understand better than your captive mind. But in all seriousness, I will go to the meek, they will listen.
Zeke25
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