Sabbath-Keeping

[Phoneman777]

Oh I missed a bit, Do you walk after the Spirit or in the flesh,The law is for the flesh, Are you Jesus, do you think you have kept the law, no one could that is why Christ came. Yes the law will always stand it will be the Judge of those who have not accepted salvation through the works of Christ, The law tells me im not perfect,Christ died so I would not have to worry about my flesh and imperfections, thats why when in Him we have no condemnation, again how can there be judgement when the price has being paid. Has not the price for you being paid in full or do you choose to try add to that which He already did.

And no it does not give anyone the right to break the law, Love does not choose to do those things even without the law,

In all His Love

If you are not surrendered to Jesus, you should fully be worried about your imperfections because you will wind up in hell. However, one who is surrendered to Jesus does not worry about his imperfections because he continually submits to whatever sins he is convicted of by the the Holy Spirit. For instance, once I became convicted that we are not at liberty to break the Ten Commandments, at first I came under condemnation of the law for refusing to keep the Sabbath, but I eventually surrendered to that conviction and now am under no condemnation of the law because I am walking with the Holy Spirit. The idea that a Christian can be simultaneously in rebellion to and surrendered to the Holy Spirit is a popular, but misguided doctrine. "If ye love Me, keep My commandments" is what Jesus desires and I'm sure you love Jesus as much as I do, friend.

 

[Phoneman777]

Firstly, Christ was there when the commandment to circumcise was given. So that alone shatters your feeble argument, as well as the fact that "adultery" and "killing" commonly break BOTH the New and Old covenants. So why pretend that you are proving some kind of point when you are not?

And if my stance suggests that we "may break the Ten commandments" then please provide a quote that teaches us that...

I never "publically declare" things that I don't agree with and that are invented by someone else. So my appeal to you is not to be dishonest here, but to present the truth sincerely!

So once again, I have addressed and answered each and every one your questions whereas you ignore mine.

Why is that Phoneman???hy?

No, you refuse to publicly declare that we are at liberty to break the Ten Commandments because you are too cowardly to stand by your claim that Christians are no longer obligated to keep them. My favorite preacher always says, "No lilly-livered coward can be a Christian!"

In 2005, I began refusing to work on the Sabbath and after repeated threats I was eventually fired from my $10,000/month job when I stood up under the aegis of the Holy Spirit and declared to management that although I respect the CEO of Bellsouth, he didn't die on the Cross of Calvary for my sins and the One Who did that for me said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." Many Christians at this very moment are leaving their testimony in blood at the hands of Muslim radicals for refusing to break the First Commandment and declare "Allah" as the true God. How pathetic that so many "Christian" cowards over here fight against what those over there would rather die for.

"But the FEARFUL, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8 KJV)

 

[zeke25]

No, you refuse to publicly declare that we are at liberty to break the Ten Commandments because you are too cowardly to stand by your claim that Christians are no longer obligated to keep them. My favorite preacher always says, "No lilly-livered coward can be a Christian!"

In 2005, I began refusing to work on the Sabbath and after repeated threats I was eventually fired from my $10,000/month job when I stood up under the aegis of the Holy Spirit and declared to management that although I respect the CEO of Bellsouth, he didn't die on the Cross of Calvary for my sins and the One Who did that for me said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." Many Christians at this very moment are leaving their testimony in blood at the hands of Muslim radicals for refusing to break the First Commandment and declare "Allah" as the true God. How pathetic that so many "Christian" cowards over here fight against what those over there would rather die for.

"But the FEARFUL, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8 KJV)

Phoneguy,
So now you have the aegis of the Holy Spirit directing you. If this be so, tell us, which Sabbath did He tell you to observe? It couldn't have been Saturday on the Gregorian calendar. After all, the RCC made that corrupted calendar, right? And what time of day did that Sabbath start: sunrise or sunset or midnight? You are delusional. You will never get these answers right. You can't even tell us when the Sabbath is this week. Go ahead, give it a try.

Folks, my money is on the fact he won't even try to answer these questions, because he is so far under deception that he dare not venture a guess or be proved a fool.

BTW, I walked away from a $12000/month job in 2006 because the new company that took over wanted me to take an oath, which the Bible forbids.
Zeke25

 

[UppsalaDragby]

....therefore whatever was once written on stone is now written

That's not what that verse says. In fact it actually disproves SDA theology entirely by showing us that whatever is written on our hearts is NOT (you know, the word used TWICE in this verse) what was written on either stone or ink (even though what is written is consistent with both) but on whatever it is the Lord specifically writes on each of our hearts INDIVIDUALLY. If what was written on stone was exactly the same thing as that which was written on our hearts then that verse would have been totally unnecessary. Paul would obviously just have taught us that it was the 10 commandments that was written on our hearts. But he does not do that ANYWHERE! And neither do any of the other NT writers...

Jesus said in Matt. 5:18 Till heaven and earth pass. one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Last I looked this earth was still here. Therefore the law still stands. Not on stone, but in our hearts and minds.

In other words, ALL of the OT laws need to be obeyed - which is yet another thing that disproves SDA theology.

But despite this, SDAs insist on referring to this verse as though it didn't!!!

Now isn't that incredible??!?

SDAs are the ones breaking scripture by asserting that the so-called "ceremonial" laws (something the Bible NEVER even mentions) have been abolished. And those who are in opposition to that idea, (i.e. myself), are in full agreement that NOTHING has been abolished, but rather that the Mosiac law simply no longer applies to those who are in Christ.

That, my friend, is a theology that not only harmonizes with scripture, but can also be verified in scripture (just ask me and I will show you exaclty where it does).

SDA theology does neither!

 

[UppsalaDragby]

No, you refuse to publicly declare that we are at liberty to break the Ten Commandments because you are too cowardly to stand by your claim that Christians are no longer obligated to keep them. My favorite preacher always says, "No lilly-livered coward can be a Christian!"

Please stop breaking the 9th commandment!

In 2005, I began refusing to work on the Sabbath and after repeated frothreats I was eventually fired m my $10,000/month job when I stood up under the aegis of the Holy Spirit and declared to management that although I respect the CEO of Bellsouth, he didn't die on the Cross of Calvary for my sins and the One Who did that for me said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." Many Christians at this very moment are leaving their testimony in blood at the hands of Muslim radicals for refusing to break the First Commandment and declare "Allah" as the true God. How pathetic that so many "Christian" cowards over here fight against what those over there would rather die for.

And?? What does that have to do with me? I have ALREADY pointed out that we should keep God's commandments.

Why, rather than address what I have actually said are you still pretending that I am saying something else?

And why are you unable to answer my questions?

"But the FEARFUL, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars,

shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8 KJV)

Yes, and???

What is your point?

What we are disussing in this thread is not whether or not sinners will be thrown into the lake of fire. We ALL probably agree with that. So please don't try to create a smoke screen and pretend that a verse, that doesn't support your theology, does support it. We don't need that kind of dishonesty in a debate like this. What we need to handle the word of God appropriately.

So once again, why are you unable to answer my questions?

 

[brakelite]

Uppsala, I agree that the ceremonial laws have not been abolished. (Your word). Or perhaps 'abolished' isn't quite the right word. That they were 'met' or 'fulfilled' in the ministry of Christ would be a better way of presenting it. In fact, I don;t think the word 'abolish' is found very commonly within Adventist theological writings. We are quite familiar with the parallels between the types and anti-types, the shadows and realities, of the OC. I agree with you that they are no longer applicable, as law, to the Christian. However, many do observe them still but in recognition that Christ is their fulfillment.
Therefore you, unlike many others, agree with the verse I quoted re the law being still intact, but in the case of the ceremonial aspects of it, met in Christ. The civil laws obviously appertain solely to Israel as civil nation...the health laws are good sound advice applicable to all peoples everywhere....and as you mentioned in a more recent post to Phoneman, the Ten Commandments are applicable to all mankind at all times. The only difference clearly is in the 4th. Not done away with as you say, but 'met in Christ' like you say the rest of the Mosaic law has been done. My confusion with your theology, if I have understood it correctly, is why is the 4th commandment singled out as having been 'met' and no longer applicable to Christian living, when the 7th commandment for example, does remain applicable to Christian living?

 

[mjrhealth]

Hmm why dont people get it, what is so complicated about God. Where the LAW is there os no more Grace, One or the other it is not an option, choose whom you serve, will you be judged by the law of be free under grace, it is your choice and your alone. Grace does not give the right to sin, it allows us to be the screw ups that we are. You cant keep teh law, you break it everyday no matter how hard you try it is impossible to live by, that is why Christ came, dont you get it. The law condemns it convicts you of sin its only reward is death. Oh that whiley devil how he decieves the minds of men. If you are striving to keep the law than you are not in Christ how can you be in free in Christ when you are being held captive by the law.

It does not add one point to your scoreboard and in no way pleasing to God because it is all about your works and not the work that christ done., without Faith we cannot please God.

 

[zeke25]

Uppsala, I agree that the ceremonial laws have not been abolished. (Your word). Or perhaps 'abolished' isn't quite the right word. That they were 'met' or 'fulfilled' in the ministry of Christ would be a better way of presenting it. In fact, I don;t think the word 'abolish' is found very commonly within Adventist theological writings. We are quite familiar with the parallels between the types and anti-types, the shadows and realities, of the OC. I agree with you that they are no longer applicable, as law, to the Christian. However, many do observe them still but in recognition that Christ is their fulfillment.
Therefore you, unlike many others, agree with the verse I quoted re the law being still intact, but in the case of the ceremonial aspects of it, met in Christ. The civil laws obviously appertain solely to Israel as civil nation...the health laws are good sound advice applicable to all peoples everywhere....and as you mentioned in a more recent post to Phoneman, the Ten Commandments are applicable to all mankind at all times. The only difference clearly is in the 4th. Not done away with as you say, but 'met in Christ' like you say the rest of the Mosaic law has been done. My confusion with your theology, if I have understood it correctly, is why is the 4th commandment singled out as having been 'met' and no longer applicable to Christian living, when the 7th commandment for example, does remain applicable to Christian living?

brakelite,

Maybe you can answer the questions. Tell us more about this precious sabbath of yours. Which Sabbath do you observe? Is it Gregory's Saturday? After all, the RCC made that corrupted calendar, right? And what time of day does that Sabbath start: sunrise or sunset or midnight? You are delusional. You will never get these answers right. You can't even tell us when the Sabbath is this week. Go ahead, give it a try.

zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneguy,
So now you have the aegis of the Holy Spirit directing you. If this be so, tell us, which Sabbath did He tell you to observe? It couldn't have been Saturday on the Gregorian calendar. After all, the RCC made that corrupted calendar, right? And what time of day did that Sabbath start: sunrise or sunset or midnight? You are delusional. You will never get these answers right. You can't even tell us when the Sabbath is this week. Go ahead, give it a try.

Folks, my money is on the fact he won't even try to answer these questions, because he is so far under deception that he dare not venture a guess or be proved a fool.

BTW, I walked away from a $12000/month job in 2006 because the new company that took over wanted me to take an oath, which the Bible forbids.
Zeke25

Are you still too cowardly to publicly declare that Christians are at liberty to break the same Ten Commandments that you claim Christians are no longer obligated to obey? The prophet Ezekiel boldly declared his beliefs but your cowardly attempt to walk down both sides of the street by refusing to make the above declaration warrants the name change from Zeke to Zekoward - a most fitting opprobrium.

BTW, Zekoward, I am fully convinced that you made up that story about your "job" seeing that you can't even figure out which day the seventh day of the week is, what time of day it begins and ends, and that it is the same day that Christians will keep in the New Heaven and New Earth who aren't among the "fearful" cowards of Revelation 21:8 KJV who will have their place in the Lake of Fire.

 

[Phoneman777]

Please stop breaking the 9th commandment!


And?? What does that have to do with me? I have ALREADY pointed out that we should keep God's commandments.

Why, rather than address what I have actually said are you still pretending that I am saying something else?

And why are you unable to answer my questions?


Yes, and???

What is your point?

What we are disussing in this thread is not whether or not sinners will be thrown into the lake of fire. We ALL probably agree with that. So please don't try to create a smoke screen and pretend that a verse, that doesn't support your theology, does support it. We don't need that kind of dishonesty in a debate like this. What we need to handle the word of God appropriately.

So once again, why are you unable to answer my questions?

Don't try to hide your true belief. You don't think of them as Ten Commandments, but that grace makes them Ten Suggestions. If you thought of them as Commandments, then you wouldn't say we "should" keep them, but that we "must" keep them, including the seventh day Sabbath. In this way, you make the Ten Commandments of none effect and unnecessary in order to establish the Ten Suggestions. A Christ-indwelt heart will do His commandments continually, not make unBiblical claims about what we "should do", but what we "must do".

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Uppsala, I agree that the ceremonial laws have not been abolished. (Your word). Or perhaps 'abolished' isn't quite the right word. That they were 'met' or 'fulfilled' in the ministry of Christ would be a better way of presenting it. In fact, I don;t think the word 'abolish' is found very commonly within Adventist theological writings. We are quite familiar with the parallels between the types and anti-types, the shadows and realities, of the OC. I agree with you that they are no longer applicable, as law, to the Christian. However, many do observe them still but in recognition that Christ is their fulfillment.
Therefore you, unlike many others, agree with the verse I quoted re the law being still intact, but in the case of the ceremonial aspects of it, met in Christ. The civil laws obviously appertain solely to Israel as civil nation...the health laws are good sound advice applicable to all peoples everywhere....and as you mentioned in a more recent post to Phoneman, the Ten Commandments are applicable to all mankind at all times. The only difference clearly is in the 4th. Not done away with as you say, but 'met in Christ' like you say the rest of the Mosaic law has been done. My confusion with your theology, if I have understood it correctly, is why is the 4th commandment singled out as having been 'met' and no longer applicable to Christian living, when the 7th commandment for example, does remain applicable to Christian living?

Brakelite, it sounds to me as though you are trying to suggest that I "agree" that there is some kind of division in the law between "ceremonial" or "civil" laws and "moral" laws. I have never, in this forum, or anywhere else, agreed with anything of the sort. What I agree with is what scripture says. Nothing else!

So if scripture says that Christ only fulfilled the "ceremonial" laws then that is what I would be agreeing with. OK?

But you cannot make a claim like that without breaking the commandment given to us by God NOT to add anything to his words. Jesus taught us that he had come to fulfill the Law - not simply a part of it!

Furthermore, I do NOT claim that the 7th commandment is appicable to Christians whereas the 4th is not. What on earth caused you to reach such a conclusion?

I have repeatedly pointed out that issues concerning morality are not only common in completely different legal systems, but also that the Mosiac Law was given to a specific group of people at a specific point in time.

And to support this, I have provided irrefutable scriptures that prove this to be a Biblical FACT. The law was given to Israel and to no other nation. The sabbath commandment was made known "by the hand Moses" (Neh 9:14) And it was given to "those who came out of the wilderness".. those who came "out of Egypt":

"Therefore I led them out of Egypt and brought them into the desert. I gave them my decrees and made known to them my laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the LORD made them holy."

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Don't try to hide your true belief. You don't think of them as Ten Commandments, but that grace makes them Ten Suggestions. If you thought of them as Commandments, then you wouldn't say we "should" keep them, but that we "must" keep them, including the seventh day Sabbath. In this way, you make the Ten Commandments of none effect and unnecessary in order to establish the Ten Suggestions. A Christ-indwelt heart will do His commandments continually, not make unBiblical claims about what we "should do", but what we "must do".

Phoneman, don't try to hide you failure to answer my questions behind a strawman.

My point has never been that we should "try" to keep the 10 commandments!

If anything, that is exactly what MOST sabbatarianists are trying to claim. Are you an exception?

So try to get this straight for once - I DON'T "think of them as commandments" given to US. I think of them as commandments given to those who were "brought out of Egypt" - just as scripture teaches us! The fact that being under the New Coventant produces the kind of morality that is consistent with the decalogue does NOT indicate that we are still under the Old Covenant laws.

If you want to be under the Old Coventant then fine! But remember.. "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

Everything means EVERYTHING!

 

[zeke25]

BTW, Zekoward, I am fully convinced that you made up that story about your "job" seeing that you can't even figure out which day the seventh day of the week is, what time of day it begins and ends, and that it is the same day that Christians will keep in the New Heaven and New Earth who aren't among the "fearful" cowards of Revelation 21:8 KJV who will have their place in the Lake of Fire.

Phoneguy,

Just as I thought. You do not have an answer to my questions about the your precious sabbath. Therefore, it is a logical conclusion that you do not keep God's sabbath day at all. You keep man's sabbath - which is any ole day you choose. What a hypocrite you are.

Go ahead. For the record, for your new converts that may be reading your posts. Tell them, when is this precious man-made sabbath of yours. When does it start during the 24 hours of a day? Whose calendar are you using? I expose you as a purposeful deceiver and an unconscionable bald faced liar. Prove me wrong and I will apologize.

But you can't and you won't. Your man-made "sabbath god" is going to let you down. And your SDA gurus will not have a valid answer for you either.

Go ahead, now's your opportunity. Tell us all about this "sabbath god" of yours. When is it? And then I will tell you when it really is - from Scripture.

Zeke25


BTW, my job story is true. I gave up my job for a biblical reason. You gave up yours to worship your "sabbath god". False gods cause much destruction and death in the world.

 

[zeke25]

The only difference clearly is in the 4th. Not done away with as you say, but 'met in Christ' like you say the rest of the Mosaic law has been done. My confusion with your theology, if I have understood it correctly, is why is the 4th commandment singled out as having been 'met' and no longer applicable to Christian living, when the 7th commandment for example, does remain applicable to Christian living?

brakelite & Phoneman,

Come on. This is not a hard question.

Just plainly tell us, and all your would be converts, when did you last observe your sabbath this week? What calendar were you using? What time of day did you begin your observance and what time of day did you end it?

You do it every week, right? Did you forget already? This is not rocket science. Tell us, we're waiting.

You know we can look it up in the phone book. We can call the local SDA church and ask a simple question. But you are making such a big deal about it (it's so important to you that you even named your denomination after it), where is your ranting and accusing now? Tell us for all to see and hear from your own pen. If I want to attend your church, don't I have a right to know up front? And suddenly you're tongue-tied? I'm beginning to smell a rat.

Zeke25

 

[zeke25]

Let's jump start this thing for phoneguy & brakelite. Their thinking processes are quite muddled you know. If wikipedia can be believed, and unless they belong to an SDA group that has made some corrections, SDA in general observes their sabbath using a hybrid of two corrupted calendars. The first corrupted calendar they use is the Gregorian calendar, instituted by Pope Gregory of the RCC. SDA's are always on the RCC's case about this and that, but apparently they enjoy using Gregory's corrupted calendar for observing God's Holy Sabbath and it doesn't bother the SDA one bit.

But then, they don't like the idea of starting their sabbath on Saturday, they want to start it on Friday. So then they borrow from the current corrupted Rabbinic Judaism's calendar and start at sundown on Friday night. So for the first 12 hours of the SDA sabbath (not God's Holy Sabbath) they celebrate it on Friday from sundown to sunrise. Then Saturday starts, and they observe their SDA man-made sabbath for another approximate 12 hours from sunrise to sunset. Meanwhile, God's Holy Sabbath continues for another 12 hours after the SDA stop observing it.

And this is only the beginning. Oh, brakelite and phoneman you are so holy. You observe your man-made sabbath with great pomp. Unmitigated pride and ignorance surround your false doctrine. And with pride and arrogance you attack every one who will not follow you down your primrose path to confusion.

Zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

I DON'T "think of them as commandments" given to US. I think of them as commandments given to those who were "brought out of Egypt" - just as scripture teaches us!

You have repeatedly accused me of falsely representing your position by claiming that you don't believe the Ten Commandments apply to Christians, so how do you explain your above statement? Are you willing to join me in proclaiming that we are obligated to keep them, including the seventh day Sabbath, or will you publicly declare that we may freely break them?

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneguy,

Just as I thought. You do not have an answer to my questions about the your precious sabbath. Therefore, it is a logical conclusion that you do not keep God's sabbath day at all. You keep man's sabbath - which is any ole day you choose. What a hypocrite you are.

Go ahead. For the record, for your new converts that may be reading your posts. Tell them, when is this precious man-made sabbath of yours. When does it start during the 24 hours of a day? Whose calendar are you using? I expose you as a purposeful deceiver and an unconscionable bald faced liar. Prove me wrong and I will apologize.

But you can't and you won't. Your man-made "sabbath god" is going to let you down. And your SDA gurus will not have a valid answer for you either.

Go ahead, now's your opportunity. Tell us all about this "sabbath god" of yours. When is it? And then I will tell you when it really is - from Scripture.

Zeke25


BTW, my job story is true. I gave up my job for a biblical reason. You gave up yours to worship your "sabbath god". False gods cause much destruction and death in the world.

Zekoward, you know full well that the God I worship is Jesus because it is He Who said that He is the Lord of the Sabbath, that His day is the seventh day Sabbath, that in over a hundred languages around the world the word for the seventh day of the week is "Sabbath", that according to a decades old report by the Naval Observatory the seven day weekly cycle has never been interrupted despite calendar changes, and the day that honors the god of this earth was and has always been your 1st day of the week, Sunday.

Zekoward, why don't you pluck up some courage and boldly declare to all of us that we are at liberty to break the same Ten Commandments that you claim no longer apply to Christians? It seems that you are in denial of what everyone here can plainly see - that the reason you won't publicly declare this is that it is utterly ridiculous to deny that Christians are still obligated to obey what Jesus wrote with His own finger in stone at Sinai because He Himself said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments."

 

[Phoneman777]

Let's jump start this thing for phoneguy & brakelite. Their thinking processes are quite muddled you know. If wikipedia can be believed, and unless they belong to an SDA group that has made some corrections, SDA in general observes their sabbath using a hybrid of two corrupted calendars. The first corrupted calendar they use is the Gregorian calendar, instituted by Pope Gregory of the RCC. SDA's are always on the RCC's case about this and that, but apparently they enjoy using Gregory's corrupted calendar for observing God's Holy Sabbath and it doesn't bother the SDA one bit.

But then, they don't like the idea of staring their sabbath on Saturday, they want to start it on Friday. So then they borrow from the current corrupted Rabbinic Judaism's calendar and start at sundown on Friday night. So for the first 12 hours of the SDA sabbath (not God's Holy Sabbath) they celebrate it on Friday from sundown to sunrise. Then Saturday starts, and they observe their SDA man-made sabbath for another approximate 12 hours from sunrise to sunset. Meanwhile, God's Holy Sabbath continues for another 12 hours after the SDA stop observing it.

And this is only the beginning. Oh, brakelite and phoneman you are so holy. You observe your man-made sabbath with great pomp. Unmitigated pride and ignorance surround your false doctrine. And with pride and arrogance you attack every one who will not follow you down your primrose path to confusion.

Zeke25

Zekoward, if you want to know what day is the seventh day Sabbath, just ask the Jews who've been keeping the same seventh day Sabbath for century after century. These strawman arguments of yours are so utterly baseless, that you are an embarrassment to others who present more plausible, however incorrect, arguments against Sabbath-keeping.

BTW, Zekoward, are you still too cowardly to carry your logic - that the Ten Commandments do not apply to Christians - one step further and publicly proclaim that we are at liberty to have other gods before God, blaspheme His name, murder, steal, sleep with another man's wife, etc.?

Honestly, you stand rebuked by your own flawed reasoning, which you owe to the "god of this world (which) hath blinded the minds of them which believeth not, lest the glorious light of the gospel of Jesus Christ, Who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV)

 

[zeke25]

Phoneguy still lies through his teeth. He refuses to admit that he does not observe God's Holy Sabbath. But he does not. He is also too stupid to know that the Jews have not been observing God's Holy Sabbath either for approximately the last 18 centuries. He follows the RCC, the Rabbinic Jews, and the SDA man-made sabbath. God is not in his thinking, only lunacy. He doesn't want any Scriptures either, because he is biblically illiterate and cannot discuss the Scriptures.

The SDA love to quote Leviticus 23:27,32, and claim that it proves a day begins at sunset. Only problem with their thinking is that it is wrong. A detailed analysis of Lev. 23:27,32 prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Bible teaches that a day begins at sunrise. But phoneguy is in rebellion against God and will not listen to sound Biblical teaching. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, 1 Samuel 15:23. This is what he has been doing on this thread, weaving his web of witchcraft. If God Himself stood before phoneguy and told him that he is wrong, he would still stay with his church and his gurus.

Brakelite, are you going to weigh in?

Zeke25

 

[UppsalaDragby]

You have repeatedly accused me of falsely representing your position by claiming that you don't believe the Ten Commandments apply to Christians, so how do you explain your above statement? Are you willing to join me in proclaiming that we are obligated to keep them, including the seventh day Sabbath, or will you publicly declare that we may freely break them?

That is totally incorrect! As usual...

Where did I once claim that you missrepresented me by claiming that the 10 commandments no longer apply to Christians? That is EXACTLY what scripture teaches us and therefore EXACTLY what I believe.

Where the ACTUAL missrepresentation comes in is where you falsely claim that what I am saying by this is that we are therefore free to BREAK them and indulge in immorality. You'll have a really, really hard time trying to find anything in my comments that indicate that since we are no longer under the Mosaic law (which includes the 10 commandments) we are free to lie, murder, steal, worship false Gods or even break the TRUE sabbath. That is NOT what I am saying and all it does is expose what incredibly weak logic SDAs base their theology on! It also exposes the SAME kind of thoughtless conclusions that were drawn by those who opposed the apostle Paul:

"Why not say--as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say--"Let us do evil that good may result"?

Their condemnation is deserved." (Rom 3:8)

Please put a little effort into this and at least try to understand that saying that we are no longer under the Mosaic law is NOT equivalent to saying that we are "free to do evil". Don't draw such a dense conclusion! What I am saying, which is based on scripture, is we are under a completely different legal system which is NOT based on an enumerated list of static rules. We are now under a law that is living, active, effective and which produces good fruit whereas the 10 commandment failed to do this on ALL levels - just as scripture points out. The purpose of the Mosaic law was NEVER to prevent sin, but to get those who have faith in God's promises to turn to Christ!

There is NO evidence given in the NT that suggests that Christians are to focus on ANY list of rules. We might have scriptures that indicate when we are going astray from our righteous calling, but that does not mean that we are therefore still under the 10 commandments. We no longer need static lists of commandments to focus on. We now have LIVING commandments that God gives to us individually as exemplified in the NT, as indicated in the lives of the patriarchs, and as many of us experience on a daily basis.

So stop twisting my words around trying to make me say something I am NOT saying simply for the purpose of trying to defend your faulty doctrine! If you want to defend your theology then use scripture rather than missrepresenting what others say!