Sabbath-Keeping

[Phoneman777]

I think that what "most people understand" is that Paul was referring to was all things that that the Spirit of Christ had commisioned him to do. So rather than trying to exploit a single verse to make it say whatever you want it to say, why don't you use your famous "ration and reasonal" capacity and explain why Paul didn't just fly around the planet like Superman and save the whole world in the wink of an eye ... like any other fictional character. God's desire was that all people be saved, but no one has ever carried out such a feat, just as no one has ever kept the 10 commandments. So let's keep this within reason!

You can violate scripture by trying to make it say what you want in a forum debate, but in the end we will all be held accountable to what it actually says.


Despite your baseless insinuations, I have neither cliamed that sin was not a choice, nor that Jesus is ready to deliver us from it. But who among men has EVER succeeded in always making the right choices?

You?

Ellen G White?

Who???

I pointed out two scriptures that prove that we fail to keep the standard of righteousness that God desires. The number of scriptures that you have provided that proves the opposite (big drumroll for the suprise here) is ZERO!! Yes, a big ZERO!

Pointing out one scripture that merely tells us that we are "strenghened", does not mean that we are able to keep the 10 commandments. And so, once again, I have to ask you:

What ever happened to "two or three witnesses"??

No answer from Phoneman? Gee... I guess I will just have to fall backwards in complete amazement!

Upp, the Spirit of Christ has commissioned you and the rest of us to do something very important.

He wants you to stop sinning. Need a "thus sayeth the Lord'? Jesus said to the woman (and us) "Go and sin no more". And to the lame man (and us), He said, "Sin no more, lest something worse come upon you."

Please stop telling Christians that they are not obligated to stop sinning. You indignantly say, "when have I told anyone that they do not have to stop sinning???" It is when you tell people that they are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments because "whosoever sinneth transgresseth the law, because sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4 KJV

 

[Axehead]

"Hate not thy brother in thine own heart: thou shalt in any wise REBUKE thy brother and not suffer SIN upon him." Leviticus 19:17 KJV.

Didja catch that? The Bible actually says that a man who fails to rebuke his brother and allows him to continue in sin hates...that's right...hate's his brother. You, MrH, and Upp argue that we need not keep the Ten Commandments, so by rebuking you all, you by Biblical definition have become recipients of my brotherly love.

Well then, rebuke on, Phoney, rebuke on.

I will leave you to the Lord as you have been warned , too.

 

[Phoneman777]

Well then, rebuke on, Phoney, rebuke on.

I will leave you to the Lord as you have been warned , too

"He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination."
"He that keepeth the law, happy is he."

 

[Phoneman777]

What false prophets??? Unlike you I don't base my conclusions on any denominational teaching! I am non-denominational. I don't have ANY contemprorary "prophets" whatsoever! I base my conclusions about this on scripture. For example:

"We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good."

So the first false prophet you are referring to here is the apostle Paul. If anyone hates to sin, but does so with the acknowledgement that he is weak (rather than a distorted view that grace permits him to sin) then he is acknowledging that "the law is good". That is my acknowledgment.

The second apostle you are calling a false prophet is John, since what he says is this:

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

In other words, if any Christian claims that they are able to keep the 10 commandments (which according to SDAs define sin, and that the rest of the Mosiac covenant has been done away with) then they have deceived themselves and do not have truth in them.

So where does that leave you??

What you are saying is this: we can keep the 10 commandments and therefore be sinless.

What John says is that if any self-deciever who makes such a claim is a liar!


I have never once made that claim, so if you are going to make comments about what I "believe" then USE QUOTES!!!

I guess I will just have to quote myself:


So that boots your false claim out the door!

I then go ahead to say:


Again, you provide NOTHING to address this, just as you provide NOTHING that proves your point.


I have already dealt with this. And when I did, I pointed out that what I meant by this is that we are not at liberty to act in a way that is inconsistent with the 10 commandments.

The fact that the grace we have in Christ provides concessions for sin, is not equivalent to saying that we are "at liberty" to sin. So once again, please be my guest and provide scriptural evidence that we have the abiltity to be sinless.

Go back and read you very own words in post # 506 where you deny the Biblical distinction between the Ten Commandments and the Mosaic Law of ceremonies and sacrifices. Then offer me an apology and I'll accept it.

 

[zeke25]

Galatians 2:4 KJV, "And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ [Yahoshua], that they might bring us into bondage[.]"

1 John 1:8 KJV, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Upp, the Spirit of Christ has commissioned you and the rest of us to do something very important.

He wants you to stop sinning.

Of course he does!

So what's your point? (...oh no... not ANOTHER strawman!)

I have provided scripture that shows how the Mosaic law does not make anyone stop sinning... whereas you have provided... ??? Oh yeah.. NOTHING!

Need a "thus sayeth the Lord'? Jesus said to the woman (and us) "Go and sin no more". And to the lame man (and us), He said, "Sin no more, lest something worse come upon you."

Please stop telling Christians that they are not obligated to stop sinning.

I have never said that, so why are you still constructing this strawman once again?

If you think you have a valid argument then please go ahead and use quotes. Surely, somewhere in all the 26 pages of this thread it would be easy for you to point out.. if, in fact, you were basing your accusation on truth rather than distortion.. ONE quote that shows me "telling Christian that they are not obligated to stop sinning" will do just fine.

Of course, unless you do this then you are (once again) guilty of breaking the 9th commandment. And we ALL know what scripture teaches us concerning this:

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." James 2:10

You indignantly say, "when have I told anyone that they do not have to stop sinning???" It is when you tell people that they are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments because "whosoever sinneth transgresseth the law, because sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4 KJV

The fact that I claim we are obligated to keep the law of Christ entirely disproves that incredibly weak argument. Now as ironic as it might sound, I have never broken the 10 commandments in this thread, whereas you have. It's almost as ironic as the fact that those who were most zealous for the Mosaic law, the 10 commandments, and specifically the sabbath commandment, was the same bunch of people who crucified Christ. Almost as though history repeats itself...

You get it?...

Probably not.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Go back and read you very own words in post # 506 where you deny the Biblical distinction between the Ten Commandments and the Mosaic Law of ceremonies and sacrifices. Then offer me an apology and I'll accept it.

I did! And I found NOTHING AT ALL that I need to apologize for...

Obviously you read my posts just as sloppily as you read the Bible (if in fact you do read the Bible, rather than swallow what your teaches tell you to believe).

NOWHERE in post #506 did I say that there was NO distinction at all between the Old Covenant and the 10 commandments! How many times do I need to correct you??

All I did was ask YOU what distinction was being made by the verse in question. And what I was actually prompting you to do, and what I have been prompting you to do POST AFTER POST AFTER POST.. is to prove that there is a "distinction" that SEPARATES the 10 commandments (distinctly) from the Old Covenant!

No one in their right mind (excluding you or course), would try to twist my words around as if I was saying that there is no DIFFERENCE between the OC and the 10Cs. So stop constantly spewing out strawmen and red herrings and show us exactly where scripture teaches us that the 10 commandments were not a part of the OC. What scripture says is the exact opposite ... like it or not...

Now ironically (again) I asked you the following questions.. and i quote:

* "So where do I make any distinction between "God's character" and the 10 commandments?"

* "Have I EVER tried to claim that the 10 commandments were out of character with God?"

* "Where exactly does Hebrews 7 claim that the Mosiac law was "carnal" whereas the 10 commandments were not?"

* "now that I have answered your questions and addressed your points (which I ALWAYS do), how about answering mine?"

Without getting the SLIGHTEST reply from you! And yet you have the utter GALL to point out that post as if it supported your view and expect an APOLOGY from me!!! I can hardly believe this!

 

[numenian]

[SIZE=12pt]Seventh Day Adventists and Messianic Jews are two of the many denominations that erroneously teach that proper Sabbath Keeping is vital to ones' salvation. They believe in observing the Sabbath the traditional Jewish way which begins at sundown on Friday and ends at sundown on Saturday and restricts the amount and types of daily activities that they can do. They argue that the commandment to "remember the Sabbath and keep it holy" (Ex. 20:8) was one of the ten commandments and if we obey the other nine commandments then we should honor the Sabbath in the old way as well.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]What was the original purpose of the Sabbath? It was to give man a day of rest from his labors as exampled by God when He rested on the seventh day of creation. When God told Moses to "keep it holy", He was expanding it to include worship of God as well on that day of rest. Throughout the Old Testament years the Pharisees increasingly made keeping the Sabbath very restrictive, for example, by limiting the number of steps you could walk.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Jesus, much to the consternation of the Pharisees, seemed to enjoy flaunting the Sabbath.

Matt 12:2-8: "When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, "Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath." 3 He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath." (NIV)

Matt 12:10-12: "and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, they asked him, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?" 11 He said to them, "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." (NIV)

John 5:10-11: and so the Jews said to the man who had been healed, "It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat." 11 But he replied, "The man who made me well said to me, 'Pick up your mat and walk." (NIV)

John 5:17-18: Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (NIV)

We can see by this last verse that God and Jesus are always working. Apparently they do not take a Sabbath rest. It would be a sad thing indeed if God closed up shop on the seventh day and refused to hear and answer prayers because He was resting. According to Strong's Concordance the word "holy" is defined as: "To be clean, to consecrate, dedicate, to keep, prepare, proclaim and to purify and sanctify oneself."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Let's take a look at what the bible has to say about these aspects of our holiness.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]1. Clean - Jesus says, "John 15:3 - "You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you." (NIV)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]2. Consecrate - Heb 10:20 - "By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;" (KJV) Through His death we are consecrated unto God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]3. Dedicate - As Christians we dedicate our lives to His service.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]4. Keep - Phil 4:7 - "And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (KJV) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]5. Prepare - Heb 10:8-10: "First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9 Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (NIV)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Jesus prepared the way for us! We have been made holy by His sacrifice. Nothing we do will make us any holier than what Christ has done for us. When we stand before God, he isn't going to look at our works or whether we kept the law or not regarding our salvation. The only thing He will look for is whether or not we have the blood of His Son covering us, for our righteousness (our efforts to be law keepers) are as filthy rags before Him.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]6. Proclaim - By our living testimony we proclaim to the world our faith in Christ and every time we witness we are proclaiming the gospel.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]7. Purify - Titus 2:14 - "Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." (KJV)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]8. Sanctify - Heb 13:12 - "Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate." (KJV)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Christ has accomplished all that was necessary to make us holy. Observing a day set aside for His honor can bring about nothing that hasn't already been done for us. The problem many people have is in not recognizing that in Heb 4:1-10: God redefined the Sabbath. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]1 "Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, "So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'" And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work." 5 And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest." 6 It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. 7 Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts." 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his." (NIV)

As verse 10 points out, we enter that Sabbath rest automatically when we believe in Him and make Him Lord of our life. Jesus, through His life and death did everything for us spiritually that the Sabbath was supposed to do. That is why He continually stated that "the Son of Man was Lord of the Sabbath." It is in and through Him that we rest and keep the Sabbath. Those who make a big deal about setting aside a certain day for worship are proclaiming that what Christ did for us wasn't good enough. They are saying that the Sabbath becomes holy through our observance of it and physically observing it the way the law originally intended. They have not yet realized that the New Covenant did away with all the past observances. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Christ gave us two laws to obey: Matt 22:36-40: "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (KJV)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]These two commandments are the only ones we as Christians need to concern ourselves with. The love we have for God and each other fulfills the requirements of the law as Paul explains in Rom 13:8-10: "Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." (NIV)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]If we obey the law of love for God and each other then we are fulfilling the requirements of the Sabbath rest and have no need of an additional day. To believe otherwise would be like telling God, "Ok, I followed you and obeyed you all week long but now because it's the Sabbath day, I really mean it this time." People who are Sabbath-keepers also fail to realize that our living bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. We now have God residing within us. We are the 24/7 residence of He who dwelt in the inner sanctuary of the Holy of Holies. That makes us the temple so how can going to another building on a special day make us any holier? What can a calendar day do for us that the Holy Spirit residing within us can't do? My answer is…absolutely nothing![/SIZE]

I agree. We are hidden in Christ 24/7: this is our rest. The Sabbath is Christ within us.

 

[Phoneman777]

I did! And I found NOTHING AT ALL that I need to apologize for...

Obviously you read my posts just as sloppily as you read the Bible (if in fact you do read the Bible, rather than swallow what your teaches tell you to believe).

NOWHERE in post #506 did I say that there was NO distinction at all between the Old Covenant and the 10 commandments! How many times do I need to correct you??



All I did was ask YOU what distinction was being made by the verse in question. And what I was actually prompting you to do, and what I have been prompting you to do POST AFTER POST AFTER POST.. is to prove that there is a "distinction" that SEPARATES the 10 commandments (distinctly) from the Old Covenant!

No one in their right mind (excluding you or course), would try to twist my words around as if I was saying that there is no DIFFERENCE between the OC and the 10Cs. So stop constantly spewing out strawmen and red herrings and show us exactly where scripture teaches us that the 10 commandments were not a part of the OC. What scripture says is the exact opposite ... like it or not...



Now ironically (again) I asked you the following questions.. and i quote:

* "So where do I make any distinction between "God's character" and the 10 commandments?"

* "Have I EVER tried to claim that the 10 commandments were out of character with God?"

* "Where exactly does Hebrews 7 claim that the Mosiac law was "carnal" whereas the 10 commandments were not?"

* "now that I have answered your questions and addressed your points (which I ALWAYS do), how about answering mine?"

Without getting the SLIGHTEST reply from you! And yet you have the utter GALL to point out that post as if it supported your view and expect an APOLOGY from me!!! I can hardly believe this!

I would love to respond to your questions but you'll have to show me how. Within a reply, you have multiple darker boxes with the word "Quote" at the top of the box and then a portion of something I've said, and then below the box in white is your response. Seems that however you are doing it, it makes for a really good contrast between what I've said and your response to it..

 

[UppsalaDragby]

I would love to respond to your questions but you'll have to show me how. Within a reply, you have multiple darker boxes with the word "Quote" at the top of the box and then a portion of something I've said, and then below the box in white is your response. Seems that however you are doing it, it makes for a really good contrast between what I've said and your response to it..

OK, I understand. I'm not really sure if the forum editor gives us a good way to quote comments in the way that I do it, but it is quite simple to achieve. The difficult thing is trying to explain it. All you need to do is copy the text you need to quote into a text editor (notepad, for example) and then delimit the text you want to quote with HTML quote tags. Now I can't write those tags directly in my post (because the browser would convert them into quotation marks) but here is what you do. At the beginning of the text you want to quote you write the word "quote" surrouned by square brackets ("[ and "]") and then at the end of the text you do the same thing, only this time you prefix the word "quote" with a forward slash ("/"). So, in order to quote the word "text" you would post the following sequence (without the quotes and the plus-signs):

"[" + "quote" + "]" + "text" + "[" + "/quote" + "]"

Try it out. If it doesn't work then just let me know and I will try to see if I can explain it in another way. As a web-developer I understand completely that this is not easy to grasp for many people.

 

[Phoneman777]

OK, I understand. I'm not really sure if the forum editor gives us a good way to quote comments in the way that I do it, but it is quite simple to achieve. The difficult thing is trying to explain it. All you need to do is copy the text you need to quote into a text editor (notepad, for example) and then delimit the text you want to quote with HTML quote tags. Now I can't write those tags directly in my post (because the browser would convert them into quotation marks) but here is what you do. At the beginning of the text you want to quote you write the word "quote" surrouned by square brackets ("[ and "]") and then at the end of the text you do the same thing, only this time you prefix the word "quote" with a forward slash ("/"). So, in order to quote the word "text" you would post the following sequence (without the quotes and the plus-signs):

"[" + "quote" + "]" + "text" + "[" + "/quote" + "]"

Try it out. If it doesn't work then just let me know and I will try to see if I can explain it in another way. As a web-developer I understand completely that this is not easy to grasp for many people.

Thanks, I will experiment.

 

[Phoneman777]

Thanks, I will experiment.

The difficult thing is trying to explain it.

Actually, you explained it rather well.

...and then delimit the text you want to quote with HTML quote tags.

I can honestly say that in all my years I've never heard of an HTML quote tag or the procedure for how to delimit it.

Nevertheless, I think I got the hang of it. Thanks!

 

[Phoneman777]

Nowhere in post #506 did I say that there was NO distinction at all between the Old Covenant and the 10 commandments!

"Distinction" is a synonym for "Separation", so we can't say that the Ten Commandments are distinct from the Mosaic law while claiming that there is no separation, which you claim.

* "So where do I make any distinction between "God's character" and the 10 commandments?"

I never said that you have made a distinction between His character and the Ten Commandments. I think you may be reading into something that I posted.

* "Have I EVER tried to claim that the 10 commandments were out of character with God?"

Not that I can recall.

* "Where exactly does Hebrews 7 claim that the Mosiac law was "carnal" whereas the 10 commandments were not?"

When explaining how Jesus, a descendant of Judah, could be our High Priest when the Mosaic Law requires such a one to be of the Levites, (Paul) says that Jesus derived that legitimacy not from "the law of a carnal commandment", but from the "power of an endless life". This same Paul, when speaking contextually of the Ten Commandments, refers to that law as "holy, just, and good." So, the same law can't be simultaneously "carnal" and "holy, just and good."

 

[numenian]

Law: active particiption, effort, and imtent. Grace: surrender, surrender, surrender.

 

[Phoneman777]

Law: active particiption, effort, and imtent. Grace: surrender, surrender, surrender.

Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord and he surrendered to the Lord's command to built an Ark by faith, having never seen rain. Hebrews 12 is all about how Noah and others evidenced their faith which saved them - the evidence being "active participation", "effort", and "intent".

 

[Phoneman777]

Galatians 2:4 KJV , "And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ [Yahoshua], that they might bring us into bondage[.]"

"And he shall speak great words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change times and laws." Daniel 7:25 KJV

1 John 1:8 KJV, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:7-9 KJV)

 

[Phoneman777]

Obedience is the evidence that we have been saved by grace through faith, according to the well memorized Ephesians 2:8 KJV - and - the much lesser known and seemingly despised immediately following two verses:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith and not that of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Hath God before ordained that we should not literally or spiritually kill, or lie, or worship false gods, etc? Yes. He's before ordained that we should keep all Ten Commandments, both literally and spiritually. So, why is the literal observance of the seventh day Sabbath ripped from the list and made to evaporate into all sorts of replacement "spiritual" ideas like "I keep every day holy" or "I don't need the seventh day Sabbath because Jesus is my Sabbath" or "The Ten Commandments were not for Christians"???

 

[mjrhealth]

Final Comment,

If you choose to carry that burden upon yourself, go ahead, that is between you and God, but do not lay unnecessary burdens upon those who have being set free in Christ.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

For those He sets free are free in deed.

In all His Love

 

[zeke25]

Law: active particiption, effort, and imtent. Grace: surrender, surrender, surrender.

numenian,

You must realize who you are contenting with. I know you have done some past reading on this thread. But you may have missed a few things along the way.

For example, my post #81 on page 3. These lost souls have never addressed a single Scripture nor refuted a single part of the teaching. The reason is they do not believe in the Scriptures, therefore do not make the mistake to think that you can quote Scriptures to teach them anything. They use the Scriptures like you would use a screwdriver, when it works for their heretical point of view they use it; but when they can’t find a Scripture, they make one up that doesn’t exist. Literally.

God, Himself, said He did not come to instruct such as these. Isaiah 61:1 KJV, “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek…”. They are not meek. They are anything but meek. They claim to be without sin. Therefore, there is no truth in them. 1 John 1:8 KJV, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

I have pointed out how one of them is an unrepentant blasphemer (he mocks the shed Blood of Christ) and another was taught by the SDA and has blasphemed the Holy Ghost on this thread. Beware.

zeke25

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Nevertheless, I think I got the hang of it. Thanks!

you are doing just fine! Unfortunately the editor manages to mess things up a little, so I usually edit my posts and try to fix it, but that's not so important I guess.

"Distinction" is a synonym for "Separation", so we can't say that the Ten Commandments are distinct from the Mosaic law while claiming that there is no separation, which you claim.

Well so is "difference" a synomym for distinction... just as are many other words. Synonyms, however, are not always as strict as we would like them to be. They can point out things that mean exactly the same thing, but they can also point out words with similar meanings. In this case, I was referring to distinction as meaning "difference", which I think I clarified.

And what this actually boils down to is not a discussion about synonyms, but whether or not the 10 commandments are so "separate" (or different, or distinct...) from the Old Covenant that the fact the the Old Covenant has been made obsolete only effects some of the law, and not them. That "distinciton" is neither mentioned in the NT nor found anywhere at all in scripture. We are under a New Covenant - a superior covenant - that is not based on lists of commandments, but on a living Spirit.

I never said that you have made a distinction between His character and the Ten Commandments. I think you may be reading into something that I posted.

No, you didn't say that explicitly, but what you did say was the following:

If you read your Bible, you will discover that the words used to describe God's character are the same words used to describe God's law, the Ten Commandments, because the law is a transcript of His character.

... which of course gives me the impression that you felt that I did not consider the 10 commandments to be in line with God's Character, and therefore needed to "read my Bible" in order to come to that conclusion.

When explaining how Jesus, a descendant of Judah, could be our High Priest when the Mosaic Law requires such a one to be of the Levites, (Paul) says that Jesus derived that legitimacy not from "the law of a carnal commandment", but from the "power of an endless life". This same Paul, when speaking contextually of the Ten Commandments, refers to that law as "holy, just, and good." So, the same law can't be simultaneously "carnal" and "holy, just and good."

The only way you can harmonize that verse with the rest of scripture is to agree with how most (if not all) scholars interpret that verse, which is NOT that the commandment itself was carnal (I mean, how on earth could it be!!!), but that it referred to a carnal lineage. Why? Because "all scripture is God-breathed".

In order to defend your doctrine, you somehow need to make the claim that there are God-breathed scriptures that are NOT "holy, just and good".

Are you willing to make that claim?

Or are you going to come to your senses and realize that the entire Mosaic law was holy, just and good, but that: "God found fault with the people and said: "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." (Hebrews 8:8)

In other words, it wasn't due to any "carnal" laws that the New Covenant was given to us, but due to carnal people!