Sabbath-Keeping

[Phoneman777]

2Co_12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

I guess it isnt sufficent for some.

You wont win this arguemnt with God,

Love fullfills the law,

If you have Love the law is no more a burden to you because Love chooses to do good,

Those who need teh LAW to do good have not love they are sinners. if you have not love you do not have God for God is Love.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

But some keep taking those "ordinances" off teh cross and breathing life back into them at the cost of there own lives, for Life is in Christ not teh Law, but some prefer teh law to Christ and so trample his good works underfoot.

And so there religion has no purpose for Christ is dead to them.

In All His Love

Your ignorance of Scripture is the reason you don't understand. The "handwriting of ordinances that was against us" is described in Deuteronomy as what Moses wrote in a book, not what God wrote with His finger in stone (Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV). Read it for yourself. That book of the law was placed ON THE OUTSIDE of the Ark of the Covenant while the Ten Commandments in stone were placed INSIDE the Ark of the Covenant, showing that God is making a deliberate distinction from what He wrote from what Moses wrote. So, it was the Mosaic Law written in a book which was nailed to the Cross. Have you ever tried to nail stone tablets to anything?

I find it extremely laughable that when we hear someone speak about something being "etched in stone", we automatically think that to mean "eternal" or "not subject to alteration or cessation". But, the very thing upon which this colloquial saying is based - the Ten Commandments which are indeed written in stone by the finger of God to show the eternal nature of them - is somehow argued to mean the opposite of eternal.

 

[mjrhealth]

Its OK phoneman, no more from me, you refuse the hevidence before you, you hold on to your unchangeble beliefs, there is nothing that will change you, but thats ok, no one will be there with you on judgement day, just you and the law, for you have refused grace,the law has pronounced you DOA.

Matbe one day, your eyes wil be opened, but thats not for us.

in All His Love

 

[Axehead]

Psalms 111:7:8 KJV says "The works of His hands are verity and truth. All HIS commandments are sure; they stand fast forever and ever." What commandments were the result of "the works of His hands"??? That's right, the Ten Commandments which were carved out of stone and written by the hand of God.

There is not one Scripture, but many Scriptures that distinguish the Ten Commandments from the Mosaic Law, and you've already been shown them, but you stubbornly refuse to accept them.

For instance, Paul refers to the Mosaic law of the priesthood which began at Sinai as a "carnal commandment", but then refers to the law which revealed to him what lust is ("thou shalt not commit adultery") as "holy, just, and good". Can the SAME law be simultaneously "carnal" and "holy, just, and good"?

No, not anymore than Christians can simultaneously be under no obligation to keep the Ten Commandments but not at liberty to disregard them.

You cannot ignore this monumental Biblical argument that Paul makes a distinction between laws found in Scripture just as society distinguishes between criminal law, civil law, family law, corporate law, maritime law.

It is a self evident truth the the Mosaic Law which began at Sinai expired at the Cross but the Ten Commandments which go back to the beginning will remain for all eternity, for in heaven no one will be required to be circumcised or keep the Passover, but false gods, murder, theft, etc. will not be tolerated.

I love all of His commandments especially the one where He is become our blessed Sabbath Rest 7x24x365. Jesus Himself did not destroy the Law He fulfilled it and I love how He fulfilled the 4th commandment to give us Himself, spiritual rest for our weary souls. Praise His Name forever and ever!! :) :)

 

[Phoneman777]

I love all of His commandments especially the one where He is become our blessed Sabbath Rest 7x24x365. Jesus Himself did not destroy the Law He fulfilled it and I love how He fulfilled the 4th commandment to give us Himself, spiritual rest for our weary souls. Praise His Name forever and ever!! :) :)

Just as Baptism is the outward expression of the death and burial of the Old Man and the resurrection of the New Man, so is the weekly Sabbath observance the outward expression of the indwelling continual rest of Jesus which tells the world that He is both the Creator of it and the Re-Creator of hearts for as many as surrender to Him as both Savior from sin and Lord to be obeyed..

 

[Phoneman777]

I love all of His commandments especially the one where He is become our blessed Sabbath Rest 7x24x365. Jesus Himself did not destroy the Law He fulfilled it and I love how He fulfilled the 4th commandment to give us Himself, spiritual rest for our weary souls. Praise His Name forever and ever!! :) :)

"Fufilled" doesn't mean "do away with". When Jesus told John the Baptist, "suffer (My baptism) to be so, for it becomes us to fulfill all righteousness", he certainly didn't mean that His baptism would "do away with" all righteousness. "Fulfill the law" means to "fill full the obligation".

 

[Phoneman777]

Its OK phoneman, no more from me, you refuse the hevidence before you, you hold on to your unchangeble beliefs, there is nothing that will change you, but thats ok, no one will be there with you on judgement day, just you and the law, for you have refused grace,the law has pronounced you DOA.

Matbe one day, your eyes wil be opened, but thats not for us.

in All His Love

Obedience is not the means by which we obtain salvation, but is the evidence that we've received in our hearts Him Who is that means, for without Him obedience is simply not possible.

That is why the Bible says:
"Hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His commandments, He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him."
"For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."
"Faith without works is dead, being alone."
"Was not our father Abraham justified by works when he offered up Isaac on the altar? Ye see then how a man is justified by works and not by faith only."
"Ye know that everyone that doeth righteousness is born of Him."

Stop with this false narrative that advocates of the above verses have exchanged grace for works as a means for salvation and obey the voice of Jesus when He said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments."

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Psalms 111:7:8 KJV says "The works of His hands are verity and truth. All HIS commandments are sure; they stand fast forever and ever." What commandments were the result of "the works of His hands"??? That's right, the Ten Commandments which were carved out of stone and written by the hand of God.

Did I say they weren't?

What exactly is your point?

There is not one Scripture, but many Scriptures that distinguish the Ten Commandments from the Mosaic Law, and you've already been shown them, but you stubbornly refuse to accept them.

Sure there are! But none of them "distinguish" them in the way you would like them to. There are NO scriptures that describe them as being separate from the Mosiac law whereas there ARE scripture that prove the opposite.

So again, what's your point?

For instance, Paul refers to the Mosaic law of the priesthood which began at Sinai as a "carnal commandment", but then refers to the law which revealed to him what lust is ("thou shalt not commit adultery") as "holy, just, and good". Can the SAME law be simultaneously "carnal" and "holy, just, and good"?

Sheesh man!!! Look at the CONTEXT! Hebrews 7:16 is not saying that the entire Mosaic Covenant except for the 10 commandments is "carnal". What it is dealing with is the priesthood - which was based on physical (carnal) heredity - being someone born of the levites! The NEW priesthood on the other hand was spiritual and eternal.

Stop trying to read SDA theology into scripture!

 

[mjrhealth]

Im not the one that is angry.

Have you ever considered asking Jesus??

I guess not?? so many christians lean on there own understanding. But than there are scientists, who come up with theories, than start doing research to prove there theory. There are some who when they find the evidence proves there theory wrong, they accept it and get on with life, but there are others who refuse to believe there theory is wrong even when all teh evidence is stacked up against them,and years are wasted in money and time for no gain, Than there are christians who simply wont take things to Jesus because they simply dont want to be told there understanding is wrong. well that is not my problem nor my concern, I am only concerned about those young christians seeking the truth that may get caught up in all this who than reject Christ because of "reasoning".

If the truth cant change you, what Hope do I have. And Jesus is the truth is He not??

In All His Love

 

[UppsalaDragby]

You continue to confuse the Mosaic Law which began at Sinai with the Ten Commandments which have existed from the beginning. People knew it was wrong to steal, lie, worship Nimrod, etc., long before God ever said anything about circumcision or Passover.

I have already pointed out that consciousness of morality is not equivalent to the existance of the 10 commandments, just as I have pointed out that being under them has no effect on whether or not anyone keeps them.

So instead of throwing out yet another red herring, please let me know whether or not you are prepared to answer my questions.

YES OR NO????

Or do you know anyone else who can?

YES OR NO????

 

[Phoneman777]

Did I say they weren't?

What exactly is your point?


Sure there are! But none of them "distinguish" them in the way you would like them to. There are NO scriptures that describe them as being separate from the Mosiac law whereas there ARE scripture that prove the opposite.

So again, what's your point?




Sheesh man!!! Look at the CONTEXT! Hebrews 7:16 is not saying that the entire Mosaic Covenant except for the 10 commandments is "carnal". What it is dealing with is the priesthood - which was based on physical (carnal) heredity - being someone born of the levites! The NEW priesthood on the other hand was spiritual and eternal.

Stop trying to read SDA theology into scripture!

Why do you yell so much? Volume is a poor substitute for a solid argument. And try as you might, you cannot refute the fact that the Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Testament in the context of our obligation to them, the fact that the Ten Commandments will exist for all eternity while the Mosaic Law of sacrifices and ceremonies was nailed to the Cross 2,000 years ago, and that those who refuse to keep the Ten Commandments, both in Letter and in Spirit, will not gain admittance into the kingdom. If the Bible didn't say any of this, I would agree with what you are saying.

 

[Phoneman777]

I have already pointed out that consciousness of morality is not equivalent to the existance of the 10 commandments, just as I have pointed out that being under them has no effect on whether or not anyone keeps them.

So instead of throwing out yet another red herring, please let me know whether or not you are prepared to answer my questions.

YES OR NO????

Or do you know anyone else who can?

YES OR NO????

The only red herring here is your doctrine that "we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments but we are not at liberty act contrary to them" which is the height of theological redonkulousness - as if we can be simultaneously obligated and not obligated to the same thing. By teaching that we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments, you are teaching that we are at liberty to break them, whether you like it or not and Jesus says you are referred to by those in heaven as the least of us down here for doing so.

 

[Axehead]

"Fufilled" doesn't mean "do away with". When Jesus told John the Baptist, "suffer (My baptism) to be so, for it becomes us to fulfill all righteousness", he certainly didn't mean that His baptism would "do away with" all righteousness. "Fulfill the law" means to "fill full the obligation".

Ah, my dear friend, Jesus "filled up to the full" what was lacking in the 10 commandments and the rest of the Mosaic Law. That is full - fill - ment.

That is how He EXCEEDED the righteousness of the Pharisees who kept the 10 commandments and that is why He tells us that we must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees who only kept the 10 commandments if we want to enter heaven. And how do we exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees, by faith in Christ's righteousness. If you turn to Him you will be filled with the Holy Spirit and you will be able to exceed the 10 commandments (outward actions) and have a pure heart from Jesus.

Mat_5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Just as Baptism is the outward expression of the death and burial of the Old Man and the resurrection of the New Man, so is the weekly Sabbath observance the outward expression of the indwelling continual rest of Jesus which tells the world that He is both the Creator of it and the Re-Creator of hearts for as many as surrender to Him as both Savior from sin and Lord to be obeyed..

Oh my, you don't understand the Scriptures. The outward expression of Jesus Christ as our Sabbath Rest, trusting Him, resting from our own outward works of righteousness, is not Physical rest but Spiritual Fruit unto God and the evidence of Christ in us, the hope of glory. Spiritual evidence of His character and behavior operating in our lives. Your physical evidence of just observing a physical day of rest allows someone to be carnal. Everything you believe allows someone to be carnal and have an impure heart because you are only concerned about carnal commandments that address only outward actions and physical day of rest that you say is proof of resting in Jesus. It is nothing of the sort. Anyone can observe a physical day of rest and not have spiritual fruit or a clean heart. It happens every Sunday all across the land.

Phone home, Phoneman777, Jesus is waiting for you.

The Priesthood has been changed and because the Priesthood changed, the law had to change, too. We have a new law in town, pardner, the LAW OF CHRIST.
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The law was a carnal commandment that could not make anyone righteous. We are made righteous by "an endless life", Jesus Christ.
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

The commandments of the Law were weak and unprofitable and were disannulled by the New Testament, written in the Savior's blood.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


We follow the commandments of a better testament, the commandments of Jesus. His law of love, written on our hearts.
Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Thank you once again for the opportunity to explain these things to our readership.

 

[Phoneman777]

Ah, my dear friend, Jesus "filled up to the full" what was lacking in the 10 commandments and the rest of the Mosaic Law. That is full - fill - ment.

That is how He EXCEEDED the righteousness of the Pharisees who kept the 10 commandments and that is why He tells us that we must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees who only kept the 10 commandments if we want to enter heaven. And how do we exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees, by faith in Christ's righteousness. If you turn to Him you will be filled with the Holy Spirit and you will be able to exceed the 10 commandments (outward actions) and have a pure heart from Jesus.

Mat_5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.




Oh my, you don't understand the Scriptures. The outward expression of Jesus Christ as our Sabbath Rest, trusting Him, resting from our own outward works of righteousness, is not Physical rest but Spiritual Fruit unto God and the evidence of Christ in us, the hope of glory. Spiritual evidence of His character and behavior operating in our lives. Your physical evidence of just observing a physical day of rest allows someone to be carnal. Everything you believe allows someone to be carnal and have an impure heart because you are only concerned about carnal commandments that address only outward actions and physical day of rest that you say is proof of resting in Jesus. It is nothing of the sort. Anyone can observe a physical day of rest and not have spiritual fruit or a clean heart. It happens every Sunday all across the land.

Phone home, Phoneman777, Jesus is waiting for you.

The Priesthood has been changed and because the Priesthood changed, the law had to change, too. We have a new law in town, pardner, the LAW OF CHRIST.
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The law was a carnal commandment that could not make anyone righteous. We are made righteous by "an endless life", Jesus Christ.
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

The commandments of the Law were weak and unprofitable and were disannulled by the New Testament, written in the Savior's blood.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


We follow the commandments of a better testament, the commandments of Jesus. His law of love, written on our hearts.
Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Thank you once again for the opportunity to explain these things to our readership.

Brother, you've got it all wrong. The Ten Commandments were never lacking anything b/c David said "the law of the Lord is perfect". What is lacking is the love necessary for us to keep them. When Jesus supplies that love, the resultant obedience separates those who truly love Jesus from those who only give Him lip service.
God said, "My covenant will I not break nor alter the thing that is gone from My lips" and that which went forth from His lips that is an element of a covenant was the Ten Commandments. Since the only difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is where the law is written, Christians will obey the Ten Commandments because they love Jesus, not to obtain salvation and likewise, people who profess to love Jesus but refuse to obey His commandments are called liars and have no truth in them, according to 1 John 2:3-4 KJV.

Thank you for giving our audience the opportunity to see the fallacy of your belief that it is possible to keep the Spirit of the Ten Commandments while setting aside the Letter of the Ten Commandments. If we're keeping the Spirit of them, we are automatically keeping the Letter of them. Paul's words of condemnation of the "Letter of the Law" are targeting those who attempt to obtain righteousness by that, not those who obey because they have been made righteous by faith alone in Jesus.

 

[mjrhealth]

What is lacking is the love necessary for us to keep them.

And that Phoneman is the problem that you just dont get. It is through His Grace that we work with Love so we fullfill teh law. Love does not need the LAW to do whats right, but you consistenly leave it out. The LAW is all about your works Grace is all about His, which is why CHRIST is left out of these LIES. In simple terms, those who choose to keep the law do not have Christ, do not have grace and do not walk in love, as if they had these things the LAW would not be a burden to them.

But you like so many christans will not take things to Jesus, for if you did, the lies would be exposed and all your so called :"good works" will be found to be nothing.

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

In ALL His Love

For those who love Jesus. it will not be" look at me Jesus, look at what I did", no it will be " thank you Jesus for all that you did, for if not for you I would be a dead man" The latter gives Him the glory, teh former is pride and gives you the glory.

Funny how little Jesus gets mentiond in christian foums considering christianty is supposed to be all about Him

 

[Phoneman777]

And that Phoneman is the problem that you just dont get. It is through His Grace that we work with Love so we fullfill teh law. Love does not need the LAW to do whats right, but you consistenly leave it out. The LAW is all about your works Grace is all about His, which is why CHRIST is left out of these LIES. In simple terms, those who choose to keep the law do not have Christ, do not have grace and do not walk in love, as if they had these things the LAW would not be a burden to them.

But you like so many christans will not take things to Jesus, for if you did, the lies would be exposed and all your so called :"good works" will be found to be nothing.

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

In ALL His Love

For those who love Jesus. it will not be" look at me Jesus, look at what I did", no it will be " thank you Jesus for all that you did, for if not for you I would be a dead man" The latter gives Him the glory, teh former is pride and gives you the glory.

Funny how little Jesus gets mentiond in christian foums considering christianty is supposed to be all about Him

I don't get the very thing I pointed out? That makes ZERO sense. Of course I get it, else I wouldn't have drawn attention to it. What you don't seem to understand is that no matter what a person professes, his actions show what he really believes. A person who claims to love Jesus but refuses to obey His Ten Commandments proves that he "is a liar and the truth is not in him."

I'm so glad that no one will be running around in heaven shouting, "You don't have to keep the Sabbath!!!" Isaiah makes it perfectly clear that "from one Sabbath to another shall all flesh come to worship before Me."

It's really funny how the Sabbath was created in Eden and given to all mankind, was obviously included among the "charge, commandments, statutes, and laws" that Abraham kept, was kept by the Israelites and Jesus, will be kept in heaven for all eternity........but SOMEHOW the period between Jesus' First coming and Second coming we are supposed to believe that there is no seventh day Sabbath keeping for Christians. If Christians aren't "mankind", then what are they?

 

[mjrhealth]

I don't get the very thing I pointed out?

Amen

 

[zeke25]

Galatians 2:4 KJV, "And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ [Yahoshua}, that they might bring us into bondage[.]"

1 John 1:8 KJV, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

 

[Phoneman777]

What sin is John referring to in 1 John 1:8 KJV?

Many slaves to sin who are deceived into believing that they have gained victory in Christ seek to excuse their continuing sinful habits to which they are enslaved by interpreting 1 John 1:8 KJV to mean the sin to which they continue to be enslaved. This is not the case, for if we love Jesus, we will "keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, but keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the Truth (Jesus) is not in him."

John is referring to people like Ted Turner who mock the idea that we are sinful and in need of the blood of Jesus for cleansing from sin, NOT true Christians who "keep His commandments and do those things which are pleasing in His sight."

 

[Phoneman777]

Amen

I agree that I don't get your non-Biblical interpretation of the relationship between law and grace, which makes grace a disgrace. Grace is both pardon for sin and power to obey God's commandments. Your desire for Jesus as your Savior but not your Lord is all too common in Christendom.

 

[Phoneman777]

Amazing how millions upon millions of Christians in the past preferred to be thrown to the lions or burned at the stake because they refused to break God's Ten Commandments. A pinch of incense dropped into the flames of an idol; an acknowledgment that Caesar was god; declaring the blasphemy that the names, titles, and attributes of God Almighty also belonged to the Pope who claimed to be "Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under veil of flesh" -- such little compromises were all that were necessary to deliver them from death, but they preferred to die rather than break the commandments associated with these compromises.

It's unfortunate that those poor, deluded Christians were unaware of the newly discovered "truth" about the Ten Commandments which shapes the attitudes of many people who profess Christ today.