Sabbath-Keeping

[Wormwood]

Raeneske,

I appreciate your well thought out reply. However, I do not agree that the 10 commandments were seen as "The Moral Law" whereas the rest of the law had no basis in morality. This is simply not true. Aren't homosexuality, gluttony, etc. moral issues? I think we have to be very careful about how we embrace the OT law and see it pertain to our lives today. I believe we died to the law, completely. I do not live under law, but under grace. The Bible is very clear about this. Does this mean we can murder, steal and engage in all kinds of sexual impurity? Certainly not. As Christians, we strive to love God and love others, which is the summary of the law and prophets. So, the question then becomes, "Is observing the Sabbath a critical component to what it means to love God?" Certainly we cannot say we love God if we hate our brothers or murder. We also cannot say we love God and engage in sexual immorality. The Acts 15 passage makes it clear (as well as other passages), that sexual immorality is incompatible with our holy calling. So, back to the question. "Is observing the Sabbath a critical component to what it means to love God?"

I believe the NT clearly teaches that the answer is "No." Allow me to list the following reasons:

1) We see no command in the NT for Gentile believers that observing the Sabbath was a similar expectation as that of abstaining from idolatry and sexual immorality. Why wouldn't the Jewish Christians send out the decree that newly converted Gentiles should keep the Sabbath? I mean, this council in Acts 15 is addressing a HUGE issue in circumcision. They declared that circumcision was unnecessary (EVEN THOUGH IT PREDATED THE LAW!). Circumcision was perhaps the most significant observance of among the Jewish people. If they are going to cast out circumcision, one would think that they would make special note that they are NOT casting out Sabbath observations. Moreover, one would expect that they would expressly command Gentiles to observe the Sabbath since this was not part of the Gentile culture at all. They declared that NO burden should be put on the Gentiles in relation to Jewish customs and observations other than abstaining from the above items. The fact that they don't mention the Sabbath is an overwhelming statement from this council.

2) All kinds of laws such as dietary laws, circumcision, and sacrifices were "types and shadows" to point us to Christ. I believe the Sabbath was also a "type" to point us to Christ. Just as the sacrifices pointed to the sacrifice of Jesus, so also the Sabbath pointed to the rest we find in Christ. Jesus died on Friday and "rested" on the Sabbath...being raised on the first day of the week. The author of Hebrews makes this abundantly clear. Thus, it is evident that the Sabbath was seen as a "type" to point us to Christ and not a moral obligation for Gentile believers. If it were a moral obligation, such as sexual morality or not murdering, it highly doubt it would have been compared to a mere type by which Christians find true rest from their works. Essentially, the author of Hebrews is saying that Christians rest every day because we have died to our "work" and live by grace. Thus, in Christ, every Christian is fulfilling the Sabbath.

3) Numerous passages specifically speak of NOT being judged by the Sabbath. How can you say that the "Sabbaths" Paul spoke of were not part of the moral law? What other "Sabbath" do you think Paul was referring to? Clearly, the Sabbath refers to the observance of the Sabbath. Paul says we are not to be judged by it. I don't think it could be any more clear. To say that Paul was referring to a different kind of Sabbath than the one mentioned in the 10 Commandments is silly. Its pretty clear what Paul meant. Foods, days and Sabbath rests are not gauges by which Christians determine their holiness and we should not allow people to gauge our holiness by such types and shadows.

4) I agree with you that Christians should rest one day per week. Pretty much all of recorded history shows Christians meeting on the first day of the week to focus on the Lord, fellowship and pray. It was clear pretty much from the inception of Christianity that the focus of Christians changed from Sabbath to the first day of the week in celebration of the resurrection of Christ. I think it is extremely important for Christians to meet at least one day a week to rest, worship, encourage one another, teach the Scriptures and pray. In fact, the Scriptures encourage us to not give up meeting together. We should make it a habit to take a day of the week and do this. However, we are not under law and so to start arguing about specific days, or what a person can and cant do to really "rest" is a step in the wrong direction. Again, our focus is no longer being justified by law and worrying about such minutia. We are under grace and are free to love God with all of our hearts as we are led by the Word and Spirit.

In sum, if it impacts your conscience and you cannot in good faith do activities on the Sabbath, then you should not. It is sin for you if you are not acting in faith. However, if I am able to work on a Sabbath and rest and worship on the first day of the week in celebration of the resurrection in good faith, who are you to condemn me? There is no NT verse you can point me to that suggests I am in error and I have multiple verses in the NT that teach that I am observing the Sabbath due to my rest from my works of the law in the grace of Christ. Thus, I do not feel any obligation to be bound by your conscience on issues not expressly stated in the New Testament.

 

[Raeneske]

Raeneske,

I appreciate your well thought out reply. However, I do not agree that the 10 commandments were seen as "The Moral Law" whereas the rest of the law had no basis in morality. This is simply not true. Aren't homosexuality, gluttony, etc. moral issues? I think we have to be very careful about how we embrace the OT law and see it pertain to our lives today. I believe we died to the law, completely. I do not live under law, but under grace. The Bible is very clear about this. Does this mean we can murder, steal and engage in all kinds of sexual impurity? Certainly not. As Christians, we strive to love God and love others, which is the summary of the law and prophets. So, the question then becomes, "Is observing the Sabbath a critical component to what it means to love God?" Certainly we cannot say we love God if we hate our brothers or murder. We also cannot say we love God and engage in sexual immorality. The Acts 15 passage makes it clear (as well as other passages), that sexual immorality is incompatible with our holy calling. So, back to the question. "Is observing the Sabbath a critical component to what it means to love God?"

I believe the NT clearly teaches that the answer is "No." Allow me to list the following reasons:

1) We see no command in the NT for Gentile believers that observing the Sabbath was a similar expectation as that of abstaining from idolatry and sexual immorality. Why wouldn't the Jewish Christians send out the decree that newly converted Gentiles should keep the Sabbath? I mean, this council in Acts 15 is addressing a HUGE issue in circumcision. They declared that circumcision was unnecessary (EVEN THOUGH IT PREDATED THE LAW!). Circumcision was perhaps the most significant observance of among the Jewish people. If they are going to cast out circumcision, one would think that they would make special note that they are NOT casting out Sabbath observations. Moreover, one would expect that they would expressly command Gentiles to observe the Sabbath since this was not part of the Gentile culture at all. They declared that NO burden should be put on the Gentiles in relation to Jewish customs and observations other than abstaining from the above items. The fact that they don't mention the Sabbath is an overwhelming statement from this council.

2) All kinds of laws such as dietary laws, circumcision, and sacrifices were "types and shadows" to point us to Christ. I believe the Sabbath was also a "type" to point us to Christ. Just as the sacrifices pointed to the sacrifice of Jesus, so also the Sabbath pointed to the rest we find in Christ. Jesus died on Friday and "rested" on the Sabbath...being raised on the first day of the week. The author of Hebrews makes this abundantly clear. Thus, it is evident that the Sabbath was seen as a "type" to point us to Christ and not a moral obligation for Gentile believers. If it were a moral obligation, such as sexual morality or not murdering, it highly doubt it would have been compared to a mere type by which Christians find true rest from their works. Essentially, the author of Hebrews is saying that Christians rest every day because we have died to our "work" and live by grace. Thus, in Christ, every Christian is fulfilling the Sabbath.

3) Numerous passages specifically speak of NOT being judged by the Sabbath. How can you say that the "Sabbaths" Paul spoke of were not part of the moral law? What other "Sabbath" do you think Paul was referring to? Clearly, the Sabbath refers to the observance of the Sabbath. Paul says we are not to be judged by it. I don't think it could be any more clear. To say that Paul was referring to a different kind of Sabbath than the one mentioned in the 10 Commandments is silly. Its pretty clear what Paul meant. Foods, days and Sabbath rests are not gauges by which Christians determine their holiness and we should not allow people to gauge our holiness by such types and shadows.

4) I agree with you that Christians should rest one day per week. Pretty much all of recorded history shows Christians meeting on the first day of the week to focus on the Lord, fellowship and pray. It was clear pretty much from the inception of Christianity that the focus of Christians changed from Sabbath to the first day of the week in celebration of the resurrection of Christ. I think it is extremely important for Christians to meet at least one day a week to rest, worship, encourage one another, teach the Scriptures and pray. In fact, the Scriptures encourage us to not give up meeting together. We should make it a habit to take a day of the week and do this. However, we are not under law and so to start arguing about specific days, or what a person can and cant do to really "rest" is a step in the wrong direction. Again, our focus is no longer being justified by law and worrying about such minutia. We are under grace and are free to love God with all of our hearts as we are led by the Word and Spirit.

In sum, if it impacts your conscience and you cannot in good faith do activities on the Sabbath, then you should not. It is sin for you if you are not acting in faith. However, if I am able to work on a Sabbath and rest and worship on the first day of the week in celebration of the resurrection in good faith, who are you to condemn me? There is no NT verse you can point me to that suggests I am in error and I have multiple verses in the NT that teach that I am observing the Sabbath due to my rest from my works of the law in the grace of Christ. Thus, I do not feel any obligation to be bound by your conscience on issues not expressly stated in the New Testament.

Wormwood,

You cannot argue that the Sabbath was not part of the moral law, when the Sabbath is placed within the very moral law, in the very heart of it no less. If the seventh day Sabbath was not placed within the 10 Commandments, then your argument could stand. But it does not because it denies the basic reality that God placed it within the Moral Law. As man is obligated to refrain from worshiping idols, so too man is obligated morally to keep God's Sabbath -- not his own sabbath, or the Sabbath of someone else, but he is obligated to keep the Sabbath of the Lord.

We as Christians are dead to the law of the 10 Commandments, not the other way around. It is not the law that has died, and sunk into insignificance, but it is the old man that has died, sunk into insignificance, and Christ that now lives. If Christ lives, that law cannot condemn us.

Circumcision did not predate the law. The law, much like the tabernacle on earth, is a copy of the law which is already in heaven.

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The Great Moral Law is the exemplification of God's character in words. Ten simple, yet in depth commandments cover the depths of God's love, mercy, and forgiveness. In it, all sin is condemned. All sexual immorality is forbidden within the seventh commandment. Anyone who is not your spouse, with whom sexually immoral acts are committed, is forbidden. Even homosexuality is forbidden in the law, for a man cannot be the spouse of a man, and a woman cannot be the spouse of a woman.

The council does not mention many things, but to assume from it that it means that a law within the Great Moral Law can be broken, is just as erroneous to assume that covetous practices, lying, stealing, etc. are now accepted practices for the Christian. The problem in the council did not stem from the moral law, but from the need to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses. These things are not written within the Moral Law. Therefore to apply a commandment of the Moral Law to it, is to take the verses out of context.

The Sabbath does indeed point to Christ. It points to Him as our Creator. Each and every single commandment points to God. They are expressions of the character of God. This does not mean that they have fallen into insignificance at the coming of Christ. They still point to Him. They are not as a shadow, which fadeth away, for how does honesty fade away? How does contentment fade away? How does commitment to a loved one fade away? How does respect, and honor fade away? These things are not shadows. And neither is the 7th Day Sabbath.

The sabbaths spoken of by Paul are found within the law that was nailed to the cross. The law against murder, adultery, etc. was not nailed to the cross.

Colossians 2:14-17 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

What are other sabbaths besides the Seventh Day Sabbath? Consider the following:

Leviticus 23:5-7 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. 7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

Leviticus 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

Leviticus 23:27-32 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD. 28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God. 29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people. 30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people. 31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

it is these sabbaths by which we are not to be judged by. These sabbaths, are the context of which Paul is speaking of. To apply the Sabbath in the moral law, is to take it out of context. It is like the fact that all men have sinned. Yet we know by context that it is not referring to Jesus. By the very context and knowledge of the Scriptures we understand, all have sinned, except the Son of God. By the very context of the writings of Paul, the Sabbath is excluded. God did place His Sabbath within the heart of the Moral Law. He did not number it with the shadows, but numbered it with the Great Moral Law.

The 10 Commandments are like a chain link. You cannot rip part of it out. If you do not adhere to one, you are guilty of breaking them all. The same logic applies to nailing it to the cross. If this 4th Commandment can be nailed to the cross, then so can every other part of the Chain.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

There is a history of Sabbath Observance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQXxMSyppP0

The video is quite long. Skip around if you would like. History records the faithful keeping of the 4th Commandment by God's people. Many different sources point to this fact. The Sabbath was changed however. Gradually Sunday came in to be accepted, instead of God's Sabbath. Your very own words point to the stance which was taken by those who apostatized from the truth. "...and worship on the first day of the week in celebration of the resurrection in good faith..." And that is the problem. Substituting God's Sabbath with a day of man own choosing. Such an act creates disharmony, and disunion in all of the universe. Regardless of the reasoning. God said the Seventh Day. Man, some in ignorance, some in bold defiance, says "No. I will not keep your Sabbath. I will keep my own Sabbath, and rest upon another day, and worship you then. That is sufficient for me. It is just as good for me to do it on my chosen day, than to do it on your chosen day." But man fails to obtain the blessings God sought out for Him in giving him the Sabbath. Disunion. Discord. Selfishness. Sin is indulged in, and cloaked with righteousness. "I will not keep your Sabbath, but will do it on Sunday, because that is when Jesus arose." It does not even make sense.

You seem to understand the necessity of coming together of the brethren of Christ. But you must understand that you are required to do it when God says to do it. We are not condemned for going to a Bible study Wednesday nights, or Monday evenings. It is the rejection of the Sabbath that condemns us. If you want to do more, then you can do more. But we are obligated to keep God's Sabbath. No exceptions.

 

[Wormwood]

Circumcision did not predate the law. The law, much like the tabernacle on earth, is a copy of the law which is already in heaven.

The command to circumcise in accordance with God's covenant with Abraham predated the commands given to Moses. Clearly, that is the point...and you are avoiding it.

You cannot argue that the Sabbath was not part of the moral law, when the Sabbath is placed within the very moral law, in the very heart of it no less.

You are making assumptions about the significance of commands and their applications to Christians that are not expressly written in the Bible. I have shown you verses that clearly teach that Christians were not bound by the Sabbath but that it was a type and shadow. You have provided only personal claims about why the Sabbath is more important with no Scriptural evidence for your position. I am not bound by your conscience. I am obligated to follow the teachings of the Bible.

it is these sabbaths by which we are not to be judged by. These sabbaths, are the context of which Paul is speaking of.

This is utter nonsense. First, Paul does not designate specific Sabbaths in this passage. He uses a generic term referring to Sabbaths. You are inserting all of this information yourself about how Paul thought about Sabbaths and how he was delineating from one type to another type. None of this is stated by Paul (which one would think he would state that if he wanted to distinguish between Sabbaths). You are explaining away a very clear and generic statement referring to legal observances of Jewish people that Christians were not to be bound by. If you want to add all kinds of footnotes and qualify Paul's statements, fine. However, just know those are your words and not Paul's. I don't think the Bible needs me to qualify its statements.

The 10 Commandments are like a chain link. You cannot rip part of it out. If you do not adhere to one, you are guilty of breaking them all. The same logic applies to nailing it to the cross. If this 4th Commandment can be nailed to the cross, then so can every other part of the Chain.

The entire law was nailed to the cross. Not just the parts you don't feel like we need to keep anymore. The point Paul is making is that we are not judged by a legal standard anymore in Christ. Our relationship with God is based on his work, not ours. That is clearly what he is saying here. Again you are qualifying his statements to fit a preconceived theology.

 

[Trekson]

The Ten Commandments (Abbrv.)​

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain;
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God:…For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother:
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet.

While pondering on these recently I arrived at some conclusions. Eight out of the ten are sins we commit (actually do) and out of the ten, two are sins because we omit these actions (things we fail do to).

I can’t say I inspected the bible with a microscope but with a quick perusal, I couldn’t find anything in the OT, that would lead one to believe that God is our Heavenly Father. In fact, the whole idea that believers are part of the family of God is also a new NT concept. We are blood brothers/sisters to Christ because of the blood He shed for us. He bought us and brought us into His family by that action. We became joint-heirs with Him.

That is a new NT concept and along that line; the way we keep the Sabbath is also a new concept. We enter into His rest dependent upon Christ’s finished work and by our faith in Christ.

The only real NT scriptural argument for Sabbath-keepers to maintain that style of rest is Heb. 4:9 – “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.” So as a non-sabbath-keeper is there an explanation I can offer for that? My answer is yes. As believers we enter into His Sabbath Rest. By faith, we rest in His completed work but that is all said before vs. 9. So in what context are we to take this?

I believe the following vs. 10 & 11 give us that answer. Heb. 4:10-11 – “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”

Verse 11 shows us that we have to work to achieve the “rest” of vs.9. Verse 10 clarifies that this isn’t speaking of our earthly job, but our spiritual work He has planned for us. We don’t rest from our earthly work, we work to achieve that eternal rest as Christ has because the work He came to do is completed. Our spiritual work (God’s plan for our life) will only end upon our death as well. That and that alone is the “rest” that vs. 9 is speaking of. Upon completion of our “spiritual” work is when we will hear Christ say: “Well done, thy good and faithful servant”.

Taking all these things into consideration we see that a weekly Sabbath rest is not in sight here. Those that don’t observe a lawful Sabbath aren’t breaking the commandment because we just observe it differently by honoring God with all of our life not just every 7th day. We keep our eyes on our eternal prize, not a weekly suspension of a non-related work that isn’t even in sight. No one is saying you can’t observe it if you want to, just don’t call the rest of us who heed His word and realize that we are trying to accomplish something far greater, sinners because we obey in spirit and not lawfully.

 

[sjmopas]

Just some thoughts Brothers and Sisters.

The institution of a Sabbath rest for Adam, Eve, and their descendants, was instituded within the context of a perfect, unveiled relationship between God and humanity. Adam and Eve had not sinned nor had death entered the world. There was definately mystery, any new relationship involves mystery, things we're still learning about each other. Adam and Eve walked with God, in His holy presence. This is something we look forward to, being in the unveiled holy presence of God.

When Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man, we can be sure that He was not referring to Exodus 20:8-11. In Exodus 20:8-11 God is not instituting or making the Sabbath, He is calling the Israelites to remember something that has alread been instituted and made.

Biblicaly, going to the tabernacle, temple, or a synagogue on the 7th day is not the same as keeping the Sabbath. The same is true in our day, going to church on Saturday is not the same as keeping the Sabbath. The blessing of the Sabbath was that people did not have to work. To keep the Sabbath holy was to keep from working on the Sabbath. A person could go to the tabernacle, temple, or a synagogue on the Sabbath, but they didn't have to, and doing so didn't make them holier Sabbath keepers.

Also, I have read some posts where some have said things like, "Jesus is our rest...we rest everyday...it's a spiritual rest in Jesus" Jesus is also the word of God fulfilled in us; does that mean we do away with the written word now? Jesus even said that the Spirit would lead us into all truth, and there's a passage that says noone will need his neighbor to teach him, because God's laws will be written in our hearts, should we stop preaching and teaching then, should we stop telling our children and other loved ones about the gospel? Jesus is the living word, which the written word is the shadow, if we use the same logic, then we should get rid of BIbles, preachers, and teachers.

Another thing that is dangerous is to separate parts of what make up a person, dividing physical things from spiritual things. You and I are whole persons, people are made up of physical and spiritual parts, and everything we do has both a physical and spiritual affect; depending on the activity, different things have greater physical affects than spiritual or the other way around. To say that we keep the Sabbath in a spiritual way but not a physical way is to cut a human in half, like saying there are times where you are only spirit and other times where you are only body. God made each one of us with both. Even in the beginning, the blessing of the sabbath was physical rest for people who were both physical and spiritual at the same time. The spiritual application was trust in God. We strive to make something of our lives. The Sabbath is a day where we say, "Our hope is in what God does, we will not strive in our own strength, we will rest in Him". The Sabbath is not only a parable of what the Father did through the Son, but within the cevenant of Christ, it is a testimony of our hope for a future eternal rest in the kingdom and presence of God, something we are not experiencing yet. We still have pain, sorrow, adness, tears, sin, and death that plauge us and our loved ones, but one day all that will be gone, and we will rest from all our striving.

In the end, it is very dangerous to question the sincerity and relationhip with God of another believer. Those on either side of the doctrine can still walk in unity, even among the differences of opinions. We will rise and fall before our God individually. We will each answer for our own ways of living. We are only saved through faith in Christ. I also believe that keeping the Sabbath rest, on the 7th day of the week, forphysical rest, is still a relevant gift for God's people.

 

[brakelite]

Just some thoughts Brothers and Sisters.

The institution of a Sabbath rest for Adam, Eve, and their descendants, was instituded within the context of a perfect, unveiled relationship between God and humanity. Adam and Eve had not sinned nor had death entered the world. There was definately mystery, any new relationship involves mystery, things we're still learning about each other. Adam and Eve walked with God, in His holy presence. This is something we look forward to, being in the unveiled holy presence of God.

When Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man, we can be sure that He was not referring to Exodus 20:8-11. In Exodus 20:8-11 God is not instituting or making the Sabbath, He is calling the Israelites to remember something that has alread been instituted and made.

Biblicaly, going to the tabernacle, temple, or a synagogue on the 7th day is not the same as keeping the Sabbath. The same is true in our day, going to church on Saturday is not the same as keeping the Sabbath. The blessing of the Sabbath was that people did not have to work. To keep the Sabbath holy was to keep from working on the Sabbath. A person could go to the tabernacle, temple, or a synagogue on the Sabbath, but they didn't have to, and doing so didn't make them holier Sabbath keepers.

Also, I have read some posts where some have said things like, "Jesus is our rest...we rest everyday...it's a spiritual rest in Jesus" Jesus is also the word of God fulfilled in us; does that mean we do away with the written word now? Jesus even said that the Spirit would lead us into all truth, and there's a passage that says noone will need his neighbor to teach him, because God's laws will be written in our hearts, should we stop preaching and teaching then, should we stop telling our children and other loved ones about the gospel? Jesus is the living word, which the written word is the shadow, if we use the same logic, then we should get rid of BIbles, preachers, and teachers.

Another thing that is dangerous is to separate parts of what make up a person, dividing physical things from spiritual things. You and I are whole persons, people are made up of physical and spiritual parts, and everything we do has both a physical and spiritual affect; depending on the activity, different things have greater physical affects than spiritual or the other way around. To say that we keep the Sabbath in a spiritual way but not a physical way is to cut a human in half, like saying there are times where you are only spirit and other times where you are only body. God made each one of us with both. Even in the beginning, the blessing of the sabbath was physical rest for people who were both physical and spiritual at the same time. The spiritual application was trust in God. We strive to make something of our lives. The Sabbath is a day where we say, "Our hope is in what God does, we will not strive in our own strength, we will rest in Him". The Sabbath is not only a parable of what the Father did through the Son, but within the cevenant of Christ, it is a testimony of our hope for a future eternal rest in the kingdom and presence of God, something we are not experiencing yet. We still have pain, sorrow, adness, tears, sin, and death that plauge us and our loved ones, but one day all that will be gone, and we will rest from all our striving.

In the end, it is very dangerous to question the sincerity and relationhip with God of another believer. Those on either side of the doctrine can still walk in unity, even among the differences of opinions. We will rise and fall before our God individually. We will each answer for our own ways of living. We are only saved through faith in Christ. I also believe that keeping the Sabbath rest, on the 7th day of the week, forphysical rest, is still a relevant gift for God's people.

Nicely put.

 

[Phoneman777]

Jesus had a major problem with the Jews concerning the Sabbath.
They threw their toys out the cot when He healed or did anything else on the Sabbath ... reason was they missed the reasoning behind the Law
entirely.
Jesus tried his best in educating them and showing them that "man was not made for the Sabbath but that the Sabbath was made for man".
God gave the Sabbath as an ordinance that was to benefit man, a day of rest from working to get the body rejuvenated, they missed the point entirely
and said that God did not want them to lift a finger or do anything at all even if it was to help someone else.

If we know someone who works everyday without rest we advise them and say, "You need a day off to rest, you're going to wear yourself out".
Now imagine if they took your advice and just lay in bed all day and never got up to eat or shower etc.
And we went over to their home and they shouted from the window, "Sorry but I can't get out of bed you told me to rest".
Are they right or wrong ?

They're right as far as resting is concerned but they need to live as well, resting does not mean total shut down of life.
That's what the Pharisees preached - total shutdown of life.
But that's not what God meant.
And Jesus illustrated it by healing people on the Sabbath ... life goes on.
The day of resting and dedication to God is any day that a man or woman of God chooses it to be in the New Covenant as is witnessed
by Romans 14:5 - 6,

One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind
The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God,
while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

Trekson, what's vital to one's salvation is a surrendered heart to Jesus. Jesus doesn't care how much you sing praise songs in church or declare how much you love Him to the world, if you refuse to keep His commandments, He calls all that other stuff "vain worship" which will get you nothing but a first class ticket to hell.

 

[7angels]

there is nothing wrong with observing the sabbath. as long as it does not get religious. God is not only the God of the sabbath but the God opt every day of the week. so even though we observe the sabbath we also need to be observing every other day of the week too. why would God like it better for you to only set aside one day a week when you could be setting aside 7 days a week? to have anyone tell you something is wrong when you believe something is right and you decide to go against your own consciousness and listen to someone else is causing you to sin and the other person even though not wrong will be held accountable because they made you sin. so be very careful everyone what you say and do. make sure you are right and not harming anyone at the same time.

God bless

 

[Trekson]

Phoneman, you addressed me but quoted someone else, which is it?

 

[JPPT1974]

Sundays are the Day that the Lord Has Made and We Need to Rejoice and Be Glad!

 

[Axehead]

No man has ever kept the letter of the law because he cannot. And Jesus did not save us to keep the letter of the law. If you don't understand this and that Christ came to deliver us from the bondage of the law then you have not yet met the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom_7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Those that think the newness of the spirit means that you can now keep the oldness of the letter are deceived. To rationalize and justify (yourselves) that you are keeping the Sabbath, is an exercise in utter futility and religiousness.

Comical that people who think they are keeping the Sabbath are judging those who trust in Christ's righteousness.

Those who are abiding in Christ and resting from their own works of righteousness, trusting in His righteousness instead have no use for a dead letter and a law that condemns or pharisaical and judaizing spirits that enslave babes in Christ and immature believers in bondage, AGAIN!


Axehead

 

[heretoeternity]

God created every day, but only rested, blessed it and made Holy one day of the week..and that is the Seventh day Sabbath..now known as Saturday..your "sunday" the first day of the week, was never made holy or set aside by God for holy purposes..Jesus said in Mark 2 He is lord of the Sabbath...not sunday..
Remember Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments, and not the sun god/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.
God created every day, but only rested, blessed it and made Holy one day of the week..and that is the Seventh day Sabbath..now known as Saturday..your "sunday" the first day of the week, was never made holy or set aside by God for holy purposes..Jesus said in Mark 2 He is lord of the Sabbath...not sunday..
Remember Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments, and not the sun god/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

No man has ever kept the letter of the law because he cannot. And Jesus did not save us to keep the letter of the law. If you don't understand this and that Christ came to deliver us from the bondage of the law then you have not yet met the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom_7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Those that think the newness of the spirit means that you can now keep the oldness of the letter are deceived. To rationalize and justify (yourselves) that you are keeping the Sabbath, is an exercise in utter futility and religiousness.

Comical that people who think they are keeping the Sabbath are judging those who trust in Christ's righteousness.

Those who are abiding in Christ and resting from their own works of righteousness, trusting in His righteousness instead have no use for a dead letter and a law that condemns or pharisaical and judaizing spirits that enslave babes in Christ and immature believers in bondage, AGAIN!


Axehead

Your write up if referring to the mosaic law, the 613 sacrificial, feast, festival, cleanliness, food, etc laws, nothing to do with the Ten commandments which are separate altogether..they are known as God's law, and you can expect judgement by these commandments according to James, as he calls it the Royal law and standard of judgement...Sin is bondage, not God's law according to Apostle Paul..sin is transgression of God's law...Paul says in Romans "do we make void the law through faith? God forbid we establish the law"

Remember Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and not the sun god/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are pagan based and NON Biblical!

 

[Axehead]

Please don't tell me what my write up refers to. My write up refers to the 10 commandments, too. You can follow the letter of the law with the 10 commandments and not know Jesus. You can even follow the 10 commandments and be hateful in your heart to others. and judge your brother.

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Do you have a better idea now what serving God in the newness of the spirit means?

Axehead

 

[heretoeternity]

So what you are saying is you do not need to follow the ten commandments? Its okay for you to kill? Steal? Is that what you are saying? Or is it just the fourth commandment you are offended by? James 2 says you break one commandment, you break them all!
Please learn to distinguish between the law of God, and the law of Moses..the 613 sacrificial etc laws..big difference!

Remember Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and not the sun god satan and his days of sunday,dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin!

 

[brakelite]

What was it exactly that God blessed and sanctified, making it holy? It was a DAY! Not just any day, but the seventh day. When did He do this? He did it at the time of creation. Thus it was Jesus Himself, being Creator, that blessed and sanctified the seventh day, making that day holy. Thus He knew what He was talking about when He declared Himself Lord of the Sabbath. He established it in the beginning, He was wholly entitled and qualified to rebuke those who chose not to keep the day holy according to the commandment, Jesus was fully entitled to correct the way the seventh day Sabbath should be observed. And He did. Repeatedly, and demonstrating personally that doing good for others on that day through ministry is entirely appropriate.
What Jesus did NOT do, I repeat, what Jesus did not do was to remove the blessing from the seventh day Sabbath, removing its status as a sanctified holy day, and transferring that sanctity to another day, or no specific day at all. That my friends was a task carried out by the so-called church fathers in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, and laid down as doctrine and taught as canon law in the Roman church from the 6th centuries on. Those Christians who during those times who chose to continue to observe the Sabbath as Jesus did and as the apostles and early church did, were persecuted.
If you were true to scripture, and true to the work of the reformation, you would continue the reforming and come completely out of Babylon, discard the 1st day celebration to the sun-god, and return to the only day that God has ever blessed, and continues to do so for those who choose to honour Him by keeping it holy as per the commandment.

 

[Axehead]

Have you run into people that are telling you how important it is to keep the Sabbath?

There is definitely a move away from Christ back to Judaism, today. Back to “Sabbath Keeping”. It is happening all around us. We all know people that say they should keep the Sabbath Holy. One of the big arguments they have is that the Roman Catholic Church instituted “Sunday Keeping” along with Constantine in the 4th century and that the Roman Catholic church attempted to change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. So, we are told that when we keep Sunday instead of Saturday, we are not keeping the Sabbath.

The reality is this, Bible Believers don’t keep Sunday and they do not believe that Sunday is the Sabbath. So, we are not worried about someone changing the day from Saturday to Sunday because we have a different Sabbath and the Sabbath is the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of our rest and we keep no other day holy. Bible believers don’t think Sunday is the Sabbath or is the holy day. We don’t hold any day above another. All days are equally exalted in which we walk in God’s presence and in His Spirit and worship Him.

According to Galatians 5, if you disagree with the previous statement then you have fallen from grace. There is no end to how many, many groups from Seventh Day Adventists to British Israelism to the Hebrew Roots Movements, twist the scripture and attempt to modify this thing to make it fit. Now, I say this with grace because my hope is that I can steer you away from this.

Let’s first start with Genesis 2:2-3.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had
rested from all his work which God created and made.

Well, you say that the Sabbath is not Mosaic and it is not under the system of laws that God gave to the Jews, but it is something that God founded in the very beginning. Does your Bible say that God founded the Sabbath for Himself here, or for man? Does your Bible say that man rested or that God rested?

There is no record of God giving Adam a commandment to rest on the seventh day. All we are told is that God rested. There is no record or statement at all that God revealed this to Adam at that time.

In Exodus 31:14, we find this:

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall be called a bad Christian.

Is that what it said??? No, that is not what it said.

What does it say?

Ye shall be put to death!

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and
was refreshed.

Who does the Bible say that God is talking to? The Children of Israel? That is correct.

Is this a covenant forever with the Jews or the Gentiles?

Yes, with the Jews and there is no passing away of this covenant. This is perpetual. The coming of Christ did not negate the keeping of the Sabbath for the nation of Israel.

Does the Bible say that it is a sign between God and the nation of Israel, forever? Yes.

In other words there is not going to be a future dispensation that nullifies Sabbath Keeping for the nation of Israel.

That means today in Israel and today in New York, the Jews should be keeping the Sabbath holy. It is their obligation to do so. And if they do work sometime after sundown on Friday night, then the other Jews according to God should pick up bricks and come down and bash their brains out. That is the Word of God! If they do not do that, then they are in violation of the Word of God. That is a commandment to the nation of Israel that has not passed away, has not changed.

Some people would like to make the penalty pass away but keep the law. But think hard about this. Do you have a law if you have no penalty? No! You cannot have a law without a penalty. The very nature of law is that it comes with a penalty.

I hear people dividing the law in what is referred to as the “moral commandments” and the “ceremonial commandments”. And they tell us that the ceremonial part has passed away but the moral part is not and they try to make Sabbath Keeping part of the “moral” part which has remained but the penalty part of it we are no longer under. Christ is supposed to have lifted that.

So they say that when Christ died, we are no longer punished for keeping the Sabbath but we are suppose to keep it, regardless. What?

I submit unto you that when God gave this law and it was perpetual, the penalty was part of it and the penalty cannot pass away unless the law passes away. And for the nation of Israel, the law of Sabbath keeping cannot pass away.

Looking at Exodus 31:14 again, there are those that try to tell us that the Sabbath was kept prior to this. They say that when God says to “Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy”, that what it means is that, they have been keeping it and to remember what I told you. Keep remembering what your duty is, to keep the Sabbath and keep on doing what you know you should be doing. Actually, it means "Don't forget to keep the Sabbath".

That is a bit stretching the text there in Exodus 20:8.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

If you take the whole book of Genesis, the Bible talks about Abraham being a righteous man and it describes in detail, going to places and worshipping. It describes in detail, time and again, his offering of sacrifices and his falling down and praying and it talked of his righteousness, but it never mentioned him keeping the Sabbath. That is very strange. The Bible mentions his tithing, but it never mentions his Sabbath keeping. Then we have Isaac, who was also a righteous man and no mention of the Sabbath. Then we have Jacob and all his trials that he goes through with God and God teaching him and yet no mention of the Sabbath or Sabbath keeping. Then we have the 12 sons of Jacob and we have their devotion to God and Joseph going down to Egypt, and the Bible makes a big point of Joseph’s faithfulness to God. Down in Egypt, he worships God, he prays and they try to find some fault in him and yet, no mention of him ever keeping the Sabbath.

And then we come to Moses and we see Moses fleeing Egypt and then coming back but yet again no mention of Moses keeping the Sabbath. You find Moses dealing with the Jews for over a year and plagues coming but you find no mention of them ever keeping the Sabbath. And then when Moses tells Pharoah that he wants to take the people and go 3 days journey and worship, he never says that they want to go keep the Sabbath. Moses never said that they want to keep the Sabbath holy unto God. If they kept the Sabbath, this would be the place to say it!

There is a conspicuous absence of any Patriarch keeping the Sabbath until Moses receives it as a commandment from God. This is irrefutable from the KJV Bible and even other Bibles.

So, to tell us that God instituted Sabbath Keeping from the book of Genesis is absolutely false! He instituted nothing of the kind. The Bible tells us that He rested. That was His business! And when He got ready to reveal it, He revealed it to the nation of Israel and it was a sign between Him and the nation of Israel. Not between anyone else. A sign of a covenant. A covenant that he made with the nation of Israel. He never made that covenant with the nations of Gentiles. And the Gentiles have not entered into that covenant. The covenant that the Gentiles have entered into is the covenant that God made with Abraham to bless the world through his seed. Abraham was a Gentile not a Jew, not an Israelite and he did not keep the Sabbath.

When God made a covenant with the nation of Israel, He made it with the Jews, with the Israelites, not with Abraham and the Bible never speaks of us, the Church, as being the seed of Jacob (Israel) or the seed of Isaac. It speaks of us being the seed of Abraham by faith and that has nothing to do with the nation of Israel.

We are the seed of a Gentile (Abraham) that did not keep the Sabbath, not the seed of an Israelite or a Jew who was commanded to keep the Sabbath. This is powerful!! This is extremely significant.

Now what is the first mention of Sabbath keeping in Exodus 20:8? Let’s look at it.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Now God commands this to the Jews and says not their menservants, thy maidservants and not their cattle, in other words, on the Sabbath, they could not hitch up their buggy and go to worship. The cows and horses couldn’t work. On the Sabbath they could not kindle a fire or carry any kind of load.

In Nehemiah 9:13 we have an interesting statement about the Sabbath.

Neh 9:13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:

Now verse 14 is the key: Look at this very closely.

Neh 9:14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

What did Moses do?

When he came down on mount Sinai, he made known unto them the Holy Sabbath. Meaning they did not know about it before Moses knew about it.

So the Word of God tells us that this is when God made known unto the Children of Israel, the Jews, His Holy Sabbath. No one from Adam knew about the Sabbath or were ever commanded to observe it. How could they observe what they never knew about? And that is why we never see a record of Sabbath keeping before Moses.

God did not make known to them just one Sabbath. He made known to them many Sabbaths. And yet, most of the people today just keep one Sabbath, one weekly Sabbath.

One of the Sabbaths involved keeping 7 days of unleavened bread and another Sabbath that involved the 7th year and there was a Sabbath that involved the 7th month. And there were certain ways that the Sabbaths were to be kept in fastings and what they could eat and could not eat and the blowing of trumpets. And if you are going to keep a Sabbath you have to keep all of the Sabbaths. You can’t go and cut them in half and say, “Ok, God instituted this but I am going to observe part of it and I’m going to do it the way our church does it.” You are going to have to do it the way God commanded.

And then in Ezekiel 20:12, He says:
Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctifieth them.

Did the Word just say Sabbaths? Plural, right? So there are multiple Sabbath keepings.

How was the Sabbath observed? Exodus 16: 5-23 tells us that there was no cooking of food or preparation of food. You can’t use the microwave, you cannot boil a roast. You cannot cook your food, between sundown Friday (if that is the Sabbath) and sundown Saturday (if that is the Sabbath). I am not convinced that is the Sabbath. But if it is, if that is when the 7th day is, I mean it could be Tuesday or it could be Thursday. I have no proof that what we call Saturday, today is the Sabbath.

And then Exodus 16:29, “let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”

In other words they did not go and have a big church meeting on the Sabbath. They did not travel. They were to stay home and rest. Sabbath was about resting. They were commanded to stay home. No one is to go to meetings on that day. I wonder how that would go over. Probably not too well.

Exodus 20:10 – No one is to work. Not the son or daughter or the cattle. Nothing!

Exodus 23:12 – The ox and the ass are to rest also.

Exodus 35:3 – They are to kindle no fire. If you get’s cold you just stay cold.

Numbers 15:32 – Gather no firewood. They could not pick up a stick of firewood on the Sabbath.

They just had to lay down and relax on the Sabbath. They could not lift a finger to go somewhere or to build a fire or to do anything.

Isaiah 58:13 – Says they are not to do their own ways, or do their own pleasures or speak their own words.

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

In other words, you can’t sit around and talk about the good times. You cannot talk about fishing or hunting or sports or organic gardening or making bread. You can’t talk about your new building project or what the kids have been doing that week and how funny it was. You couldn’t get together with the family and friends and laugh and have a good time on the Sabbath.

You couldn’t “speak your own words”. The Sabbath was the time to speak only the words of God. So picture this, everyone is staying at home, no one is going in or out, no one is carrying a load, no one cooking anything. Everyone in a state of total relaxation, just praying, singing and speaking the words of God for the 24 hours. That is the way they kept the Sabbath.

And if they violated this in anyway, the penalty was death.

We have an example of this in Exodus 31:14.

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

In Exodus 35:2, they are told not to kindle the fire.

In Numbers 15:32-36, the children of Israel found a man that was gathering sticks on the Sabbath day, and they brought him unto Moses and Aaron and the congregation. God had just given them this law and they found a father who was out picking up sticks so he could bring them back to build up the fire to cook a little manna to eat.

Let’s see what happened.

Num 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Num 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Num 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

They waited until after the Sabbath because they could not lift stones on the Sabbath. So they put him in jail (in a ward) until the Sabbath was over. All the congregation had to bash their neighbor in the head with stones as the wives and kids stood by and watched him die. Why? He violated the Sabbath.

God is real serious about Sabbath keeping and how dare anyone take away the penalty that God gave, and say we keep it because it is a blessing to us. Ha! If you were to ask the Jews they wouldn’t have said it was a blessing to them. They would say it is something our God requires of us under penalty of death. That is why they observed the Sabbath.

Axehead

 

[Trekson]

Hi Axehead, Excellent post and you brought up areas of interest that I didn't include in the OP, so thanks for the "back-up", so to speak.

There was one area with which I am of a different opinion. Your words: "I submit unto you that when God gave this law and it was perpetual, the penalty was part of it and the penalty cannot pass away unless the law passes away. And for the nation of Israel, the law of Sabbath keeping cannot pass away."

I don't believe any part of the law, except those that define what sin is, to still be in effect. What good would it do an observant Jew to keep the Sabbath? Salvation is only found in Christ so no manner of any type of law-keeping will suffice. It would be an exercise in futility. For the law of "sabbath-keeping" to be in effect for anyone be they Jew or Gentile, they would have to find their rest in Christ as we have both stated. In this way, the law hasn't ended but found it's fulfillment with Christ and we, as believers, observe our rest in him.

There will be some that will object to your findings because they believe we have become Israel, so the law is still in effect because of that, or they will point out the latter chapters of Ezekiel as though that is for a future millennial temple when it is NOT. There will always be those who don't think that Christ's sacrifice was a sufficient fulfillment of the law. I mean, it can't really be that easy, can it? We know that it is and all we can do is pray they will find the liberty that is in Christ, for themselves.

 

[heretoeternity]

The wages of sin is DEATH...Romans 6, and 1st John sin is trangression of God's law, James 2 you break one commandment you break them all...God's Holy seventh day was brought in at Creation before Jews, gentiles, Hebrews or whatever, just humankind..He placed it in the ten commandments, which is God's law....it is easy to see, that to break the fourth commandment is SIN, the wage of which is DEATH...according to Paul.

Remember salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT the sun god/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin!

 

[Axehead]

Hi Axehead, Excellent post and you brought up areas of interest that I didn't include in the OP, so thanks for the "back-up", so to speak.

There was one area with which I am of a different opinion. Your words: "I submit unto you that when God gave this law and it was perpetual, the penalty was part of it and the penalty cannot pass away unless the law passes away. And for the nation of Israel, the law of Sabbath keeping cannot pass away."

I don't believe any part of the law, except those that define what sin is, to still be in effect. What good would it do an observant Jew to keep the Sabbath? Salvation is only found in Christ so no manner of any type of law-keeping will suffice. It would be an exercise in futility. For the law of "sabbath-keeping" to be in effect for anyone be they Jew or Gentile, they would have to find their rest in Christ as we have both stated. In this way, the law hasn't ended but found it's fulfillment with Christ and we, as believers, observe our rest in him.

There will be some that will object to your findings because they believe we have become Israel, so the law is still in effect because of that, or they will point out the latter chapters of Ezekiel as though that is for a future millennial temple when it is NOT. There will always be those who don't think that Christ's sacrifice was a sufficient fulfillment of the law. I mean, it can't really be that easy, can it? We know that it is and all we can do is pray they will find the liberty that is in Christ, for themselves.

Hey, no problem Trekson.

Actually, the way I wrote it doesn't convey how I meant it. As far as Israel (religious Jew) is concerned (who does not believe in Jesus), the law of Sabbath keeping and the penalty cannot pass away. Of course, we know Salvation is only found in Christ. I am saying it tongue-in-cheek, because the Jews do not observe the New Testament, so according to the Old Testament, the law is still perpetual and must be kept, and the penalties still exist and cannot pass away. But, just like some Christians have added mixture to the NT to keep the Sabbath the Jews have added mixture to the OT to justify them not keeping the Sabbath (or other laws) the way they were intended to be kept.

All the best,
Axehead

 

[Trekson]

Hi Axe, Okay, thanks for clarifying.